Mass Shooting Reported At Cielo Vista Mall in El Paso, Texas [Update: 22 Dead, Suspect Arrested]

blitzblake

Member
Jan 4, 2018
1,105
I know this might be moot since responses like these tend to be more about the fear aspect than actual reality, but objectively, you still have a bigger chance of being killed on the way to the airport to visit.

You should never let fear control your life, that's how these bastards win.
I know I know :(
 

RedMercury

Member
Dec 24, 2017
7,827

WedgeX

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,227
Possibly already posted but a Rep getting to the point.


In May, Trump said we are being “invaded” by immigrants. The El Paso shooter said he wanted to stop the “invasion.” Trump asked his rally crowd: "How do you stop these people" from crossing the border? "Shoot them!" Someone screamed. He laughed. Then the crowd laughed.


Pack it in everyone, there’s nothing we can do, says the guy who wants more guns in his state.
We know how to solve homelessness, too.
 

Gwenpoolshark

Member
Jan 5, 2018
1,676
The Pool
Not sure if this has been posted in the thread already or not but this is one of the most succinct and informative dives into the world of forums that fuels these shootings that I've ever encountered.

Read at your own peril.

 

neon/drifter

Member
Apr 3, 2018
1,122
Not sure if this has been posted in the thread already or not but this is one of the most succinct and informative dives into the world of forums that fuels these shootings that I've ever encountered.

Read at your own peril.

Robert Evans is a good man. Well written.
 

Guts Of Thor

Member
Oct 25, 2017
752
Looks like this photo is making the rounds on social media. These sick fucks are just doing anything they can to stick their heads in the sand.
 
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Adventureracing

The Fallen
Nov 7, 2017
2,356
What more can you even say at this point that has been said 100s of times before?

A gun could have prevented my family member from being overpowered and raped while walking the dog one day. A bluff of a gun helped prevent the rape of a coworkers wife while showing houses as a real estate agent.

Turns out people suck and sometimes a weapon is all you have to prevent violence by a foe with superior strength.

Not everyone needs one on hand 24/7, but they are very useful as defense for at risk groups or minorities.
Sorry but this logic is incredibly dangerous and in many ways has led us to where the US is today. They are not useful for self defence and there is plenty of data out there to show that you’re in more danger by carrying or owning a gun.

I also don’t understand how insular you have to be to have this opinion. Do you think that rape or violent attacks are more common in countries without guns? Also there are other options of things you can keep for self defense that aren’t killing machines.

I don’t want to sound insensitive because it sucks that people get attacked like that but guns aren’t the answer.
 
Jul 18, 2018
1,850
What more can you even say at this point that has been said 100s of times before?



Sorry but this logic is incredibly dangerous and in many ways has led us to where the US is today. They are not useful for self defence and there is plenty of data out there to show that you’re in more danger by carrying or owning a gun.

I also don’t understand how insular you have to be to have this opinion. Do you think that rape or violent attacks are more common in countries without guns? Also there are other options of things you can keep for self defense that aren’t killing machines.

I don’t want to sound insensitive because it sucks that people get attacked like that but guns aren’t the answer.
A simple thing like pepper spray can come in real handy. I remember giving it to my GF and just for fun I wanted to spray a little to see it, and even that little amount I was crying on the ground like a baby.

The thing is so light, carry it anywhere and takes literally 1 sec to use
 

Mr_Antimatter

Member
Oct 28, 2017
786
What more can you even say at this point that has been said 100s of times before?



Sorry but this logic is incredibly dangerous and in many ways has led us to where the US is today. They are not useful for self defence and there is plenty of data out there to show that you’re in more danger by carrying or owning a gun.

I also don’t understand how insular you have to be to have this opinion. Do you think that rape or violent attacks are more common in countries without guns? Also there are other options of things you can keep for self defense that aren’t killing machines.

I don’t want to sound insensitive because it sucks that people get attacked like that but guns aren’t the answer.
Except a gun could have prevented it as it did the rape of a coworkers wife.

It’s very easy to imagine scenarios for defense when you’ve never been in such situations.

But there are folks who live with such a risk and they need to be able to defend themselves. Rapists, gay bashers and others chose easy targets and can indeed be frightened off by the sight of a firearm even if it’s unused. I’d rather those at risk groups have the option.

The problem is how to allow that while depriving mass murders of easy access to arms? I’m in favor of license requirements and moving semi autos that load from detachable magazines and shoot center fire ammo to class III.
 

Adventureracing

The Fallen
Nov 7, 2017
2,356
Except a gun could have prevented it as it did the rape of a coworkers wife.

It’s very easy to imagine scenarios for defense when you’ve never been in such situations.

But there are folks who live with such a risk and they need to be able to defend themselves. Rapists, gay bashers and others chose easy targets and can indeed be frightened off by the sight of a firearm even if it’s unused. I’d rather those at risk groups have the option.

The problem is how to allow that while depriving mass murders of easy access to arms? I’m in favor of license requirements and moving semi autos that load from detachable magazines and shoot center fire ammo to class III.
See this is the problem with using emotion and anecdotal evidence in a discussion like this and it’s why I think you’re wrong on so many levels and dangerously so.

Look what happened to your coworkers wife is awful and yes maybe in that very specific example having a gun prevented her getting raped. However we’re not talking about one very specific isolated incident in one persons life. We’re talking about an entire country here.

The simple fact is that having a gun personally makes you less safe. There is plenty of evidence to support this. That’s the first major flaw with your argument. Feel free to do a bit of research on this if you want. Having a gun at home statistically makes you less safe and I’m pretty sure carrying a weapon only increases that risk. That’s before we get into the increased amount of gun violence generally by allowing people to have weapons.

Secondly there are alternatives. You can always carry something like pepper spray and then you won’t need to have every single person in society carrying a gun just in case.

Again though I ask do you think your chance of getting physically or sexually attacked is less in the US than other similar countries? In essentially all other developed countries people even in marginalised groups don’t carry around weapons and they don’t get attacked at a higher rate than in the US.

Mass murders are only one part of the problem. Look at how many people are killed by gun violence every year in the US. Removing more dangerous weapons will help but ultimately most of the violence is caused by handguns I’m pretty sure.
 

mAcOdIn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
485
See this is the problem with using emotion and anecdotal evidence in a discussion like this and it’s why I think you’re wrong on so many levels and dangerously so.

Look what happened to your coworkers wife is awful and yes maybe in that very specific example having a gun prevented her getting raped. However we’re not talking about one very specific isolated incident in one persons life. We’re talking about an entire country here.

The simple fact is that having a gun personally makes you less safe. There is plenty of evidence to support this. That’s the first major flaw with your argument. Feel free to do a bit of research on this if you want. Having a gun at home statistically makes you less safe and I’m pretty sure carrying a weapon only increases that risk. That’s before we get into the increased amount of gun violence generally by allowing people to have weapons.

Secondly there are alternatives. You can always carry something like pepper spray and then you won’t need to have every single person in society carrying a gun just in case.

Again though I ask do you think your chance of getting physically or sexually attacked is less in the US than other similar countries? In essentially all other developed countries people even in marginalised groups don’t carry around weapons and they don’t get attacked at a higher rate than in the US.

Mass murders are only one part of the problem. Look at how many people are killed by gun violence every year in the US. Removing more dangerous weapons will help but ultimately most of the violence is caused by handguns I’m pretty sure.
I don't get why you're arguing about this. He's already stated he'd be ok with moving semi-automatics with detachable magazines to Class 3 which would require a specific license that, frankly, most people would never get. That's pretty fucking close to outright banning them, it puts them in the same category as fully-automatic weapons and shit. It's a damn good starting point, basically leaving weapons with internal magazines and shit like breach action shotguns and bolt action rifles for the unlicensed masses, which he also said he supported licenses for those as well, though I'm sure they would be less strict than a Class 3 license.

I also don't think people are necessarily wrong when arguing against statistics because statistics are abstract. Everything is a trade off, banning guns would mean you save some more people but for a select few you're damning them to murder, rape, what have you. Because statistics are just that, the worst case doesn't happen to everybody, we wouldn't even call them statistics if that's how they worked they'd just be laws or facts or some shit, so clearly everyone who owns a gun isn't going to accidentally shoot themselves in the foot and then kill themselves with it while depressed or whatever. There's clearly a host of other factors that influence the overall statistics too, like if you're a single person with a gun you're a hell of a lot less likely to have a family member accidentally shoot another while playing with your gun since it'd just be you, if you're not depressed you're way less likely to use the gun to kill yourself, depending on where you live you may be less inclined(or more) to have your gun stolen and used in a crime elsewhere, they're excellent baselines for society but not as helpful for an individual.

I guess what I'm saying is this, ultimately I do agree than outright banning guns is the absolute best scenario for the most people I just get rubbed the wrong way when people who are the outliers of a statistic are basically told their experience is a lie and wrong, when it isn't, they're just the outlier.
 

cameron

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
7,281
Oct 25, 2017
4,945

Max Boot @MaxBoot

Former FBI agent: “There’s some reluctance among agents to bring forth an investigation that targets what the president perceives as his base. It’s a no-win situation for the FBI agent or supervisor.” https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/fbi-faces-skepticism-over-its-anti-domestic-terror-efforts/2019/08/04/c9c928bc-b6e0-11e9-b3b4-2bb69e8c4e39_story.html …

10:13 PM - Aug 4, 2019
Shows how much Trump has already managed to radicalize these government agencies.
 

HOUSEJoseph

Member
Oct 27, 2017
364
You know what sucks? Being from El Paso and having a ton of friends there. Imagine my Facebook feed. Even more saddening is the inevitable post from people that knew some of the people that died. It's such a depressing feeling.
 

cameron

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
7,281


Michael Del Moro @MikeDelMoro

OBAMA: "We should soundly reject language coming out of the mouths of any of our leaders that feeds a climate of fear and hatred or normalizes racist sentiments..." https://twitter.com/BarackObama/status/1158453079035002881 …

3:07 PM - Aug 5, 2019



Barack Obama @BarackObama

Until all of us stand up and insist on holding public officials accountable for changing our gun laws, these tragedies will keep happening: https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/7/1/18683860/democrats-2020-gun-control-mass-shootings …

3:02 PM - Aug 5, 2019

 

JeTmAn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,684
Every time I read some new statement from Obama it pisses me off that he's not president anymore. That's how the president should communicate. Clear, concise, truthful, meaningful.