Master of None Season 2 - The quality has dropped?

[Lady Murasaki]

Creating this thread because I still have mixed feelings about this season and would like to discuss it (and also didn't find a Master of None OT). I finished the season yesterday after a long hiatus because I was too mad at the Dev/Francesca plot ruining my favorite comedy TV show - now I am not angry anymore, but still don't know what to think.

I saw some critics saying that what was a really special and innovative show fell into the traps of average cliché romantic comedy. I still don't like Francesca character - I even saw an article asking if Aziz Ansari isn't becoming some sort of Woody Allen, pairing himself with a type of women that unlikely would happen IRL.

What are your thoughts?

 

[spam musubi]

I thought the second season was much stronger overall and the message wasn't like Aziz pairing himself with a dream girl after all. The ending shows that it doesn't work out.

 

[KingSnake]

I actually liked the dynamic of Dev and Francesca and the end of the season avoided falling into a cliche.

 

[ClivePwned]

It was a better overall season IMO. It just wasn't necessarily all that funny though.

 

[Broken Joystick]

New York, I Love You and Thanksgiving are my two favourite episodes of the entire show.

Then again neither feature Dev's love interest. Hmmm.

I enjoyed the relationship and growth between Dev and Rachel in the first season more, but I think overall I prefer the quality of the second season.

 

[Rob_]

The second season was brilliant, can't wait for the third.

Some of the scenes in Italy were gorgeous, too.

 

[Deleted member 20433]

I really enjoyed the first season but I think season two was better. I really liked their romance and the tension around it.

And the Thanksgiving episode... Probably on of the best episodes in any TV series the last couple of years.

 

[36 Chambers]

I liked it but I didn't find it very funny either

 

[xrnzaaas]

I liked the girl from the first season a lot more, still a good season though.

 

[Mars]

I enjoyed it a little more than the first season. "First Date", "New York, I love you" and "Thanksgiving" were terrific. Admittedly, outside those episodes, I don't remember much. The Fran/Dev relationship wasn't so bad...

 

[Grizzo]

I liked it even more than the first one. It has some really touching, heartwarming and bittersweet moment. Plus not to mention some funny observations from everyday's life, which is to be expected from Aziz Ansari.

 

[spam musubi]

The second season was brilliant, can't wait for the third.

Some of the scenes in Italy were gorgeous, too.

Click to shrink...

I wouldn't hold my breath - Aziz has said that he's not thinking of making more any time soon.

 

[kaputt]

I do think that the quality has dropped a bit, but still is the best Netflix original show IMO.

 

[hendersonhank]

I liked season 2 more than the 1st. Both were very good, though.

 

[Lady Murasaki]

I personally was really in love with until the Thanksgiving episode, which was really awesome. Trying to be a little bit more open minded and see through possible poorly written female characters I finished the season and thought that the scenes were beautiful (the glass kiss!), and the main point that made it so much richer is that they DIDN'T cheat on Pino (it depends, tbh - is emotional cheating actually cheating?). The Chef Jeff Weinstein-ish plot was also great.

What bothered me more is that I can't really determine if Francesca is a Maniac Dream Pixie Girl or not - but I think she kinda is, and a lot more shallow than Rachel and the other women in the show (including that badass british lady from the first episode). But I like that Dev is really honest about the overall situation: ''I don't even know if it was about her - I really liked that feeling of being connected to somebody''.

I also think that this season was waay more dramatic than the first.

 

[shaneo632]

I didn't think so at all. But I also don't generally expect subsequent seasons to be better or maintain the quality of the original. I always expect a little drop.

 

[Quiksaver]

I liked the second season more than the first. The tributes to italian cinema were amazing, the fathers episode was better and the thanksgiving episode was incredible. Those are just the ones I remember off the top of my head.

 

[Deleted member 15447]

I loved the first season but found the second lacking that same spark and came away disappointed and wishing it ended at season 1.

 

[gdt]

2nd season was phenomenal. Prob better than the first.

 

[AuthenticM]

and a lot more shallow than Rachel

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How is she more shallow? She's just not as manic pixie as her. In fact, Francesca appeared to be more down to earth (which makes her more attractive to me), but that's not the same as shallow.

In any case, I thought season 2 was either just as good or better than the first one. I love it.

Can't wait for a third season. I know it'll take a while considering Asis' comments, which I don't mind. He seemed to have implied that he wants his character to have children and be married, so I hope he's still with Francesca by then.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

I thought it was a fantastic season. More memorable than the first, especially certain moments.

 

[Midnight Lunch]

I loved it. I think looking at it as a comedy might change your view of it, I never really saw it as one.

 

[SplitYourInfinities]

Better than the first one. The First Dates, New York and Thanksgiving episodes are stellar.

 

[Blader]

Loved the first season, thought the second was even better.

 

[Deadly Cyclone]

I liked season 2 WAY better than 1. It was incredible.

 

[karmaforgotme]

Nah the second season was better than the first (it seems the majority agrees so far).

 

[PK Gaming]

S2 was great, but it's greatest failing was doing nothing with Tiya Sircar because why the HECK not?!

I personally was really in love with until the Thanksgiving episode, which was really awesome. Trying to be a little bit more open minded and see through possible poorly written female characters I finished the season and thought that the scenes were beautiful (the glass kiss!), and the main point that made it so much richer is that they DIDN'T cheat on Pino (it depends, tbh - is emotional cheating actually cheating?). The Chef Jeff Weinstein-ish plot was also great.

What bothered me more is that I can't really determine if Francesca is a Maniac Dream Pixie Girl or not - but I think she kinda is, and a lot more shallow than Rachel and the other women in the show (including that badass british lady from the first episode). But I like that Dev is really honest about the overall situation: ''I don't even know if it was about her - I really liked that feeling of being connected to somebody''.

I also think that this season was waay more dramatic than the first.

Click to shrink...

I think she's a simple subversion on the manic pixie dream girl trope. Francesca and Dev have this amazing romantic connection, and it really does seem like she'll drop her (seemingly shitty husband) for him, but then the final episode happens and she calls out Dev for assuming she'd throw her entire life away just to be with him. Dev's whininess over not "getting" her was pretty well done too. He presents himself as this reasonable guy and general ally to women, but deep down he's still selfish and desperate.

 

[Lady Murasaki]

How is she more shallow? She's just not as manic pixie as her. In fact, Francesca appeared to be more down to earth (which makes her more attractive to me), but that's not the same as shallow.

In any case, I thought season 2 was either just as good or better than the first one. I love it.

Can't wait for a third season. I know it'll take a while considering Asis' comments, which I don't mind. He seemed to have implied that he wants his character to have children and be married, so I hope he's still with Francesca by then.

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In my opinion she is more... Amelia Poulain-esque, a European trope about the ideal french/italian woman? I felt like she fell too much also in the Born Sexy Yesterday trope. She is extremely beautiful, effortless, childish, never persued her dreams and is not exactly mature. And also didn't have other relationships except from Pino, which makes her a little ' exotic and virginal' specially compared to the people in New York that Dev is used to. Not saying that a good female character must be always a Wonder Woman, but we also see little about what is in her head (which makes sense in a certain perspective, because the confusion that Dev feels is a big part in the plot), but a little bit more detail in what she really thinks would be interesting (that scene in Italian with Pino was really good). With Rachel I felt more like she could be a real person, with her qualities and flaws, and not only her - Denise is a nice example in the Thanksgiving episode.

But I am open minded about it and will also wait for the next season, would like to see the development very much, specially considering the end - some theorize that it might been a dream. It would be really nice if there was a timeskip.

 

[Lady Murasaki]

S2 was great, but it's greatest failing was doing nothing with Tiya Sircar because why the HECK not?!



I think she's a simple subversion on the manic pixie dream girl trope. Francesca and Dev have this amazing romantic connection, and it really does seem like she'll drop her (seemingly shitty husband) for him, but then the final episode happens and she calls out Dev for assuming she'd throw her entire life away just to be with him. Dev's whininess over not "getting" her was pretty well done too. He presents himself as this reasonable guy and general ally to women, but deep down he's still selfish and desperate.

Click to shrink...

This is a really good analysis. I also felt this about Dev and think it is a great character development. It also connects with the ethical dilemma about keep working with 'Cheff Weinstein' knowing about what he did to women.

Edit: About Tiya Sircar, there is some people criticizing the 'fact' that it seems like Dev can only fall in love with with women (even the one night stand is with a white girl).

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

Second season was amazing. First time I watched a show where you could feel the tension between the character, and it wasn't forced, like a typical rom com.

I feel that both characters were using each other for something - Francesca living the life her fiance couldn't give her, and Dev having the connection he was longing for. Any relationship between them would never work, but their dance around the edges of a romance was more intense because of it.

 

[FlakyCurtain]

I thought the second season was outstanding. I feared the worst when the first episode opened and was an homage to European cinema, but they absolutely nailed it, and the rest of the season matched the ridiculously high bar they'd set.

I'm struggling to think of a show which improved so dramatically from S1 to S2 (and I liked S1).

I honestly believe we'll look back on it in a few years as one of the all time greats.

 

[Anubis]

Prefer the second season over first by quite a lot.

 

[quesalupa]

Naw I thought it was great.

 

[intheflorsh]

It was pretty good, but if the third season is just going to be him dating and breaking up with another girl because life is oh so complicated then meh. The more experimental episodes involving his friends were what made the season for me.

 

[Diarrhea Day-Lewis]

I thought it was even better and liked that it didn't go back to the same girl from the first season or a cliche "i finally found you" for the girl he meets in Italy but loses her number when he loses his phone.

 

[Sapiens]

I liked everything about except the "love" plot with the Italian woman. No chemistry whatsoever and really pushes the boundaries of the ugly comedian/hot lady paradigm.

Rachel from the first season was very believable and they had tonnes of chemistry.

So, this does not leave a lot to love in season two except for the fantastic thanksgiving episode.

 

[Tankard]

I loved Aziz and Francesca together and i thought this season was as marvelous as season 1. I just disliked having so much of the cooking show there, it delivered on some parts but i think it had too much of it.

 

[Messofanego]

The quality of the filmmaking hasn't dropped, it's improved. People have already mentioned the standout episodes. I have an issue with him rejecting the brown girls and them written with outs so he doesn't get with them, but I didn't have an issue with the flawed relationship between Dev and Francesca because she doesn't seem to be a dream white girl and I don't mind how it ended.

 

[reKon]

I echo a lot of the other comments. The second season was much stronger and cohesive plot wise. I love how varied every episode was to. Some pretty innovative things they did with this.

 

[Dr Doom]

Damn thread backfire

Also on the camp of season 2 is better. I like Francesca and Dev interaction. Not-Anthony Bourdain

 

[Fuhgeddit]

I thought the second season was much stronger overall and the message wasn't like Aziz pairing himself with a dream girl after all. The ending shows that it doesn't work out.

Click to shrink...

That's what I thought of it. I preferred the second season way more than the first.

 

[Lotus]

In my opinion she is more... Amelia Poulain-esque, a European trope about the ideal french/italian woman? I felt like she fell too much also in the Born Sexy Yesterday trope. She is extremely beautiful, effortless, childish, never persued her dreams and is not exactly mature. And also didn't have other relationships except from Pino, which makes her a little ' exotic and virginal' specially compared to the people in New York that Dev is used to. Not saying that a good female character must be always a Wonder Woman, but we also see little about what is in her head (which makes sense in a certain perspective, because the confusion that Dev feels is a big part in the plot), but a little bit more detail in what she really thinks would be interesting (that scene in Italian with Pino was really good). With Rachel I felt more like she could be a real person, with her qualities and flaws, and not only her - Denise is a nice example in the Thanksgiving episode.

Click to shrink...

Oh, absolutely this. I remember watching the show, and you know, you can't help but compare her to Rachel, and for a time, I thought she's "better". But then my friend pointed that a large part of that has to do with the fact that like you said, she's this exotic woman from Italy, with an adorable accent (Said accent inadvertently makes sound more childish/innocent when she speaks in English), and the only person she knows in New York aside from her husband is Dev, which means that he is basically her crutch. There's definitely this aspect where Dev is falling for her cuz she's this ideal dream girl that relies on him to have fun and what not. I don't know if the Born Sexy Yesterday trope is the correct label, but there's several moments where they make it very clear that she's not from here, looking at how she gets surprised/enamored by every little thing, because of course she does, that's what makes her cute and exotic. I remember one episode where they went to a pharmacy, and she somehow managed to even treat that as if it was this special place.

In comparison, I agree that Rachel and even the British woman felt far more fleshed out as individuals. Or more accurately, they were in a much better position to be in a healthy relationship with Dev. Francesca on the other hand, if she leaves Pino, she's practically stuck with Dev, since she herself admits that she doesn't know anyone else. The show does seem to be aware that they're using one another, and by the end it makes it clear that this won't be some happy ending with no struggles at all, so that's why I'm not really bothered, I think we're supposed to come out kind of feeling this way about her, as well as thinking that Dev is kind of shitty himself.

 

[DustyVonErich]

New York, I Love You and Thanksgiving are my two favourite episodes of the entire show.

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Even thought I like the first season more, this is true.

It seems that they may need to expand their characters, because the best episodes are the ones not centered on the main character.

 

[spam musubi]

Oh, absolutely this. I remember watching the show, and you know, you can't help but compare her to Rachel, and for a time, I thought she's "better". But then my friend pointed that a large part of that has to do with the fact that like you said, she's this exotic woman from Italy, with an adorable accent (Said accent inadvertently makes sound more childish/innocent when she speaks in English), and the only person she knows in New York aside from her husband is Dev, which means that he is basically her crutch. There's definitely this aspect where Dev is falling for her cuz she's this ideal dream girl that relies on him to have fun and what not. I don't know if the Born Sexy Yesterday trope is the correct label, but there's several moments where they make it very clear that she's not from here, looking at how she gets surprised/enamored by every little thing, because of course she does, that's what makes her cute and exotic. I remember one episode where they went to a pharmacy, and she somehow managed to even treat that as if it was this special place.

In comparison, I agree that Rachel and even the British woman felt far more fleshed out as individuals. Or more accurately, they were in a much better position to be in a healthy relationship with Dev. Francesca on the other hand, if she leaves Pino, she's practically stuck with Dev, since she herself admits that she doesn't know anyone else. The show does seem to be aware that they're using one another, and by the end it makes it clear that this won't be some happy ending with no struggles at all, so that's why I'm not really bothered, I think we're supposed to come out kind of feeling this way about her, as well as thinking that Dev is kind of shitty himself.

Click to shrink...

I think that's part of the point though. She's not fleshed out, and Dev is in love with the ideal of this woman that he knows little about, simply because she's exotic, pretty and relies on him, but the ending shows that he's not actually happy with her. It's a big mistake he commits to because he's thirsty and in love with the idea of her and not her as a person. I felt like that was intentionally the point.

 

[jfkgoblue]

I enjoyed it, Dev isn't a good person, but he tries. He's still very selfish and once I realized that, the show kind of changed for me.

 

[Yggfk]

I liked everything about except the "love" plot with the Italian woman. No chemistry whatsoever and really pushes the boundaries of the ugly comedian/hot lady paradigm.

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I think Aziz is actually pretty good looking, for what it's worth.

The second season is one of my favorite seasons of anything ever. Such an awesome cinematography, brilliantly written characters and the fucking Thanksgiving episode grabbed my heart and refuses to ever let go. I love this show <3

 

[Deleted member 2145]

yeah I also prefer the second season to the first. the first season was good but didn't hit consistently. the second season is one of my favorite seasons of television.

 

[Lotus]

I think that's part of the point though. She's not fleshed out, and Dev is in love with the ideal of this woman that he knows little about, simply because she's exotic, pretty and relies on him, but the ending shows that he's not actually happy with her. It's a big mistake he commits to because he's thirsty and in love with the idea of her and not her as a person. I felt like that was intentionally the point.

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Well yea, I said that near the end :3

 

[Bane]

I too liked the second season more. But I don't view the show as a comedy so that may be part of it.

 

[Moodz]

Master of none is not really a comedy.
And I think the second season is a masterpiece. It's very innovative and gets really deep in a very genuine way sometimes.