Matt Booty (Xbox): Our titles for the next year or two will not be next gen exclusive

i-Lo

Avenger
Oct 31, 2017
13,496
Not America
Wait just for games.

That all...

If PS5 game look much more Next gen than Xbox Series X many people will say that is a bad idea for microsoft.

Let's wait for the next gen games. And where third parties will have the best versions.
It's not about games "looking" better on PS5. The biggest changes over the generation are not graphical (well, if RT is used consistently then it's another matter) in nature.
 

zedox

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,465
Well then objectively speaking - removing you or I from the equation. What about other gamers.
It's different for each person...as I said.
Fragmentation would me being on Xbox One and not having access to games being made on Xbox One X. Do we count fragmentation if I have an Xbox Elite controller and you don't or I have an Arcade Stick and you don't? No. That's just paying for your experience. Xbox One/S/X will be able to play Xbox One (platform) games. Xbox Series X will be able to play Xbox Series X + BC. That's not fragmentation what you are describing.
 

Yogi

Member
Nov 10, 2019
885
I've said this before but it never ceases to amaze that a fan base that consistently expects and sits on the cutting edge of tech can be so resistant to change and have little to no ability to modernise their thinking lol.
Modernise the games. What we want is exactly change. Not just a measily change from 1080p to 4K, which is what we're going to get with budget consoles and cross-gen games.
 

Puffy

Member
Dec 15, 2017
2,733
I don't know if this has already been answered but can we get a definitive answer on whether the xbox one's jaguar cpu and hdd will limit the Xbox one X? Because you would think so but I've seen people saying it won't
 

Git

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
4,211
Makes sense really, not gonna be as much of a slap to the face for those who invested in the One X
 
Oct 31, 2017
1,649
This is a dumb move. I understand how having cross-generational support for your previous consoles is a good thing for your customers but not having any games for the first year that are exclusive for your brand new launching console is just dumb. I know scalability is a thing but even scalability has its limits, at some point you have to raise the lowest common denominator to see the true benefits of the new hardware. This just means that every MS exclusives for the first year or two of the Series X's life are going to be held back by the 1.3 Tflop Jaguar totting OG XB1. That means the true benefits of the Zen 2 CPU and Navi GPU in the Series X won't be taken advantage of like they would if the games were coded and designed specifically with next gen hardware in mind. It kinda defeats the purpose of owning a new powerful console at launch.
 

ImaginaShawn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,340
Now this is some old fashioned nonsense. PC is not more prone to erros for YEARS now and is not more compley. The xbox App even restricts you to go into the folders of games. So you could literally start a Windows 10 PC (preinstalled 99% of the time) and open the xbox app and just play games. Nvidia had automatic driver managers for years now and nothing else really matters for simple PC gaming.
This is just wrong, PC gaming is more complex it is just a fact.

Non-gaming related software/OS issues can prevent you from playing games, not so on consoles.
Driver updates break games all the time, this happens much less on consoles.
Malware is still a thing.

Then you get into actual hardware issues like RAM/CPU/Motherboard compatibility.
 

Papacheeks

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,561
Watertown, NY
I don't know if this has already been answered but can we get a definitive answer on whether the xbox one's jaguar cpu and hdd will limit the Xbox one X? Because you would think so but I've seen people saying it won't
If a game is built with the ability to use the SSD and stream assets of the game so load times, and in game loading for maps is close to seemless, yes trying to do that with a standard HDD is going to be painful.

I'm not against the greater reach of software.

What I am disappointed is that MS will not provide owners of Series X software that matches the ambition of the hardware. They are wasting that hardware on ports.
My issue is they have been since Gamepass been putting the cart before the horse without making sure the horse was well enough.
 

Ploid 6.0

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,609
You really expect all of these things, or really even a few of these things, on launch titles?
Resogun, Knack, Killzone SF did this on PS4 launch (I'm unfamiliar with Xbox One's launch, I'm sure it did some stuff at launch too). These were launch day, but launch year should surely have a ton more. Infamous Second Son looks (still) very good with impressive effects and polygon intensive powers (rock power especially). Then you have the stand alone DLC which launched much later but still had the graphics and engine of the main game, and it's impressive still (looked it up, still within the first year of PS4), there's no wonder people kept confusing Sucker Punch with Insomniac when it came to Spider-Man PS4.

Looked it up, Xbox One had some games people really loved.

Ryse: Son of Rome !!!! This one still gets praise.
Killer Instincts (much loved game)
Dead Rising 3 (Darnit Capcom, but it looked good from what I remember. Lots of polygons, so much on the screen)
I'm sure there are a ton more, these are launch, can't imagine how impressive their first year was.

Edit: Sunset Overdrive dude!
 

Yogi

Member
Nov 10, 2019
885
I have no interest in getting a PS5 (no wipeout etc) but I hope Sony teaches MS a lesson with some next-gen exclusives on the PS5 that put MS's cross-gen ports to shame.

Next-gen means next-fucking gen. Not another half-step.

I hope to God Sony doesn't have its own Lockhart either, but I wouldn't bet on it.
 

Ukumio

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
726
Australia
And that seems to be doing great for google...right?
Let's not stray too far off-topic but Google is failing for reasons that just don't exist for xCloud:
  • Low population = Xbox already has a built in healthy playerbase for most games
  • High barrier of entry (need to purchase most games) = Xbox has Game Pass
  • Small sample of games = xCloud will be able to play nearly every single Xbox One compatible game (Game Pass also has 200+ games)
  • Over-promised performance of games = xCloud will run on proven (lesser) hardware with a development environment most game developers are already familiar with
The only issues that xCloud will really face is latency, but that's a given. I guess you could also include availability but that's really an unknown at the moment so I don't count that yet.
 

Papacheeks

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,561
Watertown, NY
🤣

The ignorance in this thread is really amazing, especially since this is supposed to be a gaming forum.

[email protected] has been around a long time dude, he makes a great point.

Let's not stray too far off-topic but Google is failing for reasons that just don't exist for xCloud:
  • Low population = Xbox already has a built in healthy playerbase for most games
  • High barrier of entry (need to purchase most games) = Xbox has Game Pass
  • Small sample of games = xCloud will be able to play nearly every single Xbox One compatible game (Game Pass also has 200+ games)
  • Over-promised performance of games = xCloud will run on proven (lesser) hardware with a development environment most game developers are already familiar with
The only issues that xCloud will really face is latency, but that's a given. I guess you could also include availability but that's really an unknown at the moment so I don't count that yet.
Your putting lots of faith in XBox's brand that they are the ones right now in the console space with the higher brand relevancy for streaming. And they are in the same boat that stadia is in. Difference is they are taking their time with it. Right now and even next gen people are still not going to stream xbox games right off the bat, and unless they are buying tons of third party deals for those games to be on xCloud like google was it's not going to be some kind of holly grail.

There are too many unknowns right now, and honestly until latency and ISP broadband speeds increase and are available it's still small compared to what they need for people to actually make the service viable money wise.
 
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Bugalugs214

Member
Nov 26, 2017
1,020
Another 11 months of this is going to be torture.
They've said a million times this is what their plan is, just gives more options to how you want to play.
The concern trolling over "oh 3rd party devs won't be able to handle it" should be a bannable offence.

Some of you bitch over and gloat about not wanting an xbox anyway so why the concern?
 

AntiMacro

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,642
Alberta
This is a dumb move. I understand how having cross-generational support for your previous consoles is a good thing for your customers but not having any games for the first year that are exclusive for your brand new launching console is just dumb. I know scalability is a thing but even scalability has its limits, at some point you have to raise the lowest common denominator to see the true benefits of the new hardware. This just means that every MS exclusives for the first year or two of the Series X's life are going to be held back by the 1.3 Tflop Jaguar totting OG XB1. That means the true benefits of the Zen 2 CPU and Navi GPU in the Series X won't be taken advantage of like they would if the games were coded and designed specifically with next gen hardware in mind. It kinda defeats the purpose of owning a new powerful console at launch.
So what's the point of owning a PC? I mean look at the minimum system requirements for PC games - like Red Dead Redemption 2, for example. The GTX 770 came out in what...May of 2013? The require CPU is even older. Game design would be getting held back just as much, wouldn't it? I mean 'scalability has its limits' right?
 

Jiraiya

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,286
I think we agree. But the point I feel most fervent about is that I shouldn't have to pay for the better experience if I want to play on console.

You're basically telling me hey man, you've been gaming on consoles for 20 years right? Well, that industry model is changing. You're going to have now upgrade within generations to play with other that will kick your ass in multiplayer scenarios. But, don't worry - PC has been doing this since its inception - and it works just fine.

The problem with that is many console gamers don't like the PC model, and that being one of the reasons.
That's ok though. Luckily we have lots of choices and you know this won't last too long.

To the bolded...you know that's not what's happening here. The beginning of a new generation usually doesn't look like the end of that same gen. Things settle after a few years.

And 20 years is a long time to expect things to stay the same. Especially in technology.
 

Rikucrafter

Member
Oct 28, 2017
602
Australia
This makes sense. For the most part I feel like we’re at a point where gameplay and game design won’t be drastically with altered new hardware, just enhanced. A version of a title running on both XBO and XBS would reach the biggest amount of people. I could see them being XBX exclusive for old gen in that second year though.
 
Oct 31, 2017
1,649
So what's the point of owning a PC? I mean look at the minimum system requirements for PC games - like Red Dead Redemption 2, for example. The GTX 770 came out in what...May of 2013? The require CPU is even older. Game design would be getting held back just as much, wouldn't it? I mean 'scalability has its limits' right?
PC is not a closed system. Games can be modded and improved to go far beyond the limits of the hardware the designers intended them for. Look at Skyrim or any other big PC game for example. Those games were designed with last gen tech in mind but as a PC gamer I can mod them to be as graphically complex or demanding as the latest PC hardware will allow. You can't do the same thing with a console game. If a game on Series X is being held back by XB1 hardware there's no modding that can be done to push it beyond the hardware that it was designed for.
 

Voodoopeople

Member
Oct 29, 2017
682
So people who actually know how to make games say scaling is a thing and the issue is a non starter at best and concern trolling at worst.

Checks out.
 

Betty

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
10,707
I can't fault how pro consumer it is I guess, it does mean the chances of me buying a Series X before 2022 are super low but at least they've giving players choice.
 

OldDirtyGamer

Member
Apr 14, 2019
477
I think they should have at least a couple big exclusives, but I don't see anything wrong with most of them being cross gen. Im sure MS will give the XSX versions extra work.

3rd parties can do what they want.
 

ImaLawy3r

Member
Jun 6, 2019
438
It's different for each person...as I said.
Fragmentation would me being on Xbox One and not having access to games being made on Xbox One X. Do we count fragmentation if I have an Xbox Elite controller and you don't or I have an Arcade Stick and you don't? No. That's just paying for your experience. Xbox One/S/X will be able to play Xbox One (platform) games. Xbox Series X will be able to play Xbox Series X + BC. That's not fragmentation what you are describing.
So you keep ignoring truths which exist and I bring up. It's seems like it's almost deliberate.

The scenario where multiplayer lobbies consists of One/S/X/XsX/ and PC is not just about playing for your experience but also having disadvantages because the ecosystem allows it. Sure elite controllers and scuff controllers also changed the field, but we are talking about the entire system here. And by the way, I do count the elite controller as changing the playing level field. Many gamers had to upgrade to it just because they couldn't compete because others were using it. It was basically a forced upgrade for many. Of course these games will play everywhere there is an Xbox logo - that's not the point. That isn't my gripe. My gripe is that as a console gamer, this is headed in a different direction. One where I'll be forced to upgrade more frequently if I want to keep competing in games. This wasn't the case 5 years ago or so.
 

N.Domixis

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
7,435
holy shot if true, I could literally go buy an Xbox one og from a yard sale or at GameStop and I’d be playing games from next gen?!
 

Yogi

Member
Nov 10, 2019
885
So people who actually know how to make games say scaling is a thing and the issue is a non starter at best and concern trolling at worst.

Checks out.
Pixel count scales but things that weren't possible on previous hardware doesn't.

Is all you want from next-gen more pixels and higher resolution shadows? Because that's basically what we're gonna get.

This makes sense. For the most part I feel like we’re at a point where gameplay and game design won’t be drastically with altered new hardware, just enhanced. A version of a title running on both XBO and XBS would reach the biggest amount of people. I could see them being XBX exclusive for old gen in that second year though.
That's only because they're prioritising resolution and framerate which eats all the resources. We could have drastically different games, but those cost more to make.
 

Papacheeks

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,561
Watertown, NY
This makes sense. For the most part I feel like we’re at a point where gameplay and game design won’t be drastically with altered new hardware, just enhanced. A version of a title running on both XBO and XBS would reach the biggest amount of people. I could see them being XBX exclusive for old gen in that second year though.
But thats the thing, i highly doubt Horizon 2, Spiderman 2, among other unannounced PS5 games are being co-developed with PS4 in mind.

The average gamer doesn’t care about prettier graphics and pixel counting. That’s a forum user thing.
Are you taking the piss? Then whats the point of having a new console?

It's for new experiences like no load times, larger maps that are loaded all at once instead of having a subway train scene to fast travel. Those create different experiences for the player.
 

N.Domixis

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
7,435
User Banned (2 weeks): Port begging, console wars, prior infraction for same behaviour
i was banned last time I said this but screw it. If MS goal is they dont care where you play why not support PS5 and switch? Surely all those mobile and pc user base would offset any lost console players if they supported switch and PS5?
 
Oct 25, 2017
733
So I’ll buy a PS5 at launch. Xbox series X whenever an exclusive comes out in 1-2 years. Works for me. Or I might just wait for year 3 to pick up the Pro version of the Series X.
 

Yogi

Member
Nov 10, 2019
885
But thats the thing, i highly doubt Horizon 2, Spiderman 2, among other unannounced PS5 games are being co-developed with PS4 in mind.
I wouldn't say I highly doubt it as 80 million sold is a lot and they may fancy this idea of just bumping the resolution for a new generation and calling it a day, but I sure as hell hope they aren't. Sony knows what gamers want from new generations. It's not just a little bit sharper games.

I want to see the crowd reactions to Sony's PS5 exclusive games. MS presenting first, then Sony. Then the camera back to Phil.

Next-gen should be next-fucking-gen.
 

LewieP

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,727
I'm trying to theorise about if the reverse was happening on PC, and can you imagine any PC gamers being happy if Nvidia or AMD took games that were going to be released for all players, but instead secured them as exclusives for their new range of GPUs?

PC gamers would (for the most part) rightly think that this was a bad thing, and that if those games would run on old cards then they should let people play them on old cards too.

Not sure why this mentality of "People who don't buy the new console should be denied these games so that I can feel special" is so prevalent.
 

Godzilla24

Member
Nov 12, 2017
2,451
Makes sense really, not gonna be as much of a slap to the face for those who invested in the One X
Holy crap 25 pages. I thought MS talked about forwards compatibility like many years. Did people already forget? MS is giving gamers choice and allowing them to transition to next gen without abandoning X owners or even those with og xbox one or one s who want to play the latest games without investing in another expensive box. This is going to last only a year from now so I don't really see the big deal. Plus economically it makes sense.
 

AntiMacro

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,642
Alberta
PC is not a closed system. Games can be modded and improved to go far beyond the limits of the hardware the designers intended them for. Look at Skyrim or any other big PC game for example. Those games were designed with last gen tech in mind but as a PC gamer I can mod them to be as graphically complex or demanding as the latest PC hardware will allow. You can't do the same thing with a console game. If a game on Series X is being held back by XB1 hardware there's no modding that can be done to push it beyond the hardware that it was designed for.
Do you think Red Dead Redemption 2 had to be modded to look amazing or that it's design was in any way compromised by nearly decade old hardware?
 

Papacheeks

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,561
Watertown, NY
I'm trying to theorise about if the reverse was happening on PC, and can you imagine any PC gamers being happy if Nvidia or AMD took games that were going to be released for all players, but instead secured them as exclusives for their new range of GPUs?

PC gamers would (for the most part) rightly think that this was a bad thing, and that if those games would run on old cards then they should let people play them on old cards too.

Not sure why this mentality of "People who don't buy the new console should be denied these games so that I can feel special" is so prevalent.
They kind of did? But did it through features like Phsyx enhanced, and now Ray tracing.
 

asmith906

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,895
I have absolutely no reason to get the new xbox then. I don't feel like the One X has been pushed fully so there's no need for me to upgrade to the nex xbox to play the same games.
 

AntiMacro

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,642
Alberta
They kind of did? But did it through features like Phsyx enhanced, and now Ray tracing.
You could still play the game if you didn't have the 'right' card though. That started all the way back with Messiah and hardware T&L on the, I think, GeForce 256. It wasn't worth buying for that game, or for the T&L effects that a grand total of zero other games I played used before the card was outdated.