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goonergaz

Member
Nov 18, 2017
1,710
The first party exclusives kinda do at this point. They're all cinematic third person action games and then some of em also are in the genre of post-apocalypse.

Pushing everything into a "3rd person action game" does not mean a lack of diversity (Spiderman, Days Gone, Tearaway and The Last Guardian being a few examples of completely different gameplays from 3rd person perspective) - and you're talking about the company that fully supports completely unique console experiences like VR as well as the completely 'open' creativity space of Dreams.

I'd like to know of this great diversity of games the Xbox offers, Gears, Halo and State of Decay maybe? What else that makes it do far more diverse than PlayStation?
 

Joris-truly

Banned
Nov 1, 2017
845
Netherlands
I think some folk need to lower their expectations a bit about the scale of the titles they think will be seen at the start of the next generation.

You can have all the huge cities and thousands of NPCS you want but the bottom line is that those cities and NPCS have to be costed out, designed, built and coded for by regular human beings.
This 100%. + rendering fidelity still has the upper hand when it comes to marketability. So ambitious under the hood gameplay ideas are usually last in line. Especially these days with longer turnaround times in this riskaverse AAA climate.
 

Yogi

Banned
Nov 10, 2019
1,806
Next-gen consoles take a while to build up a base. Releasing games only for them doesn't give you much of a return compared to what you could get.

But not releasing games made for them specifically slows down adoption :/ Maybe they don't mind that because they won't be making much off the next-gen consoles till the parts become cheaper because they're so powerful.

Or maybe they think it won't affect it much because next-gen only titles won't be so dramatically better, for a while anyway. [The worst possible scenario with games targetting 4K and not trying to push boundries].

It's a ballsy strategy to count on Sony not having any worthwhile next-gen shit to give them a massive headstart again. Or maybe they think that will happen anyway because of PS4's success and backwards compatibility and they'd rather build up good will with their current owners - building up a catalogue for 2 more years that they can move to next-gen Xbox when the prices drop, staying on gamepass etc.

Whatever it is, it's slowing down the cool next-gen shit and tbh it kinda sucks. I understand it, but still. Hopefully Sony haven't got their thumbs up their assess and are putting in serious work to push boundries for next-gen titles for early adopters. This isn't an architecture switch. They know how to make games for these systems. Maybe they don't know what new types of experiences they could get away with though (when they aren't only using that power on resolution etc).
 
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Spades

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,781
Let's also not act like console launch titles use anywhere near 100% of the hardware anyway.
 

Simuly

Alt-Account
Banned
Jul 8, 2019
1,281
This 100%. + rendering fidelity still has the upper hand when it comes to marketability. So ambitious under the hood gameplay ideas are usually last in line. Especially these days with longer turnaround times in this riskaverse AAA climate.

You are right, but luckily there are devs that are outside these constraints in the AAA space. If Naughty Dog or SSM wanted to really push AI or destruction or the detail in an open world in one of their games, no-one could tell them not to do it.

But multiplatform yearly franchises definitely have these shackles on scope and ambition (COD, AssCreed, FIFA etc).
 

zedox

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,215
Next-gen consoles take a while to build up a base. Releasing games only for them doesn't give you much of a return compared to what you could get.

But not releasing games made for them specifically slows down adoption :/ Maybe they don't mind that because they won't be making much off the next-gen consoles till the parts become cheaper because they're so powerful.

Or maybe they think it won't affect it much because next-gen only titles won't be so dramatically better, for a while anyway. [The worst possible scenario with games targetting 4K and not trying to push boundries].

It's a ballsy strategy to count on Sony not having any worthwhile next-gen shit to give them a massive headstart again. Or maybe they think that will happen anyway because of PS4's success and backwards compatibility and they'd rather build up good will with their current owners - building up a catalogue for 2 more years that they can move to next-gen Xbox when the prices drop, staying on gamepass etc.

Whatever it is, it's slowing down the cool next-gen shit and tbh it kinda sucks. I understand it, but still. Hopefully Sony haven't got their thumbs up their assess and are putting in serious work to push boundries for next-gen titles for early adopters. This isn't an architecture switch. They know how to make games for these systems. Maybe they don't know what new types of experiences they could get away with though (when they aren't only using that power on resolution etc).

The thing with nextgen launches, it's a way to get people excited with the technology out there and start buying software. More new shiny stuff and get people to spend money. If these companies didn't "have" to sell you new hardware over and over again...they wouldn't...the money is in the software. They make new hardware because of competition (not only head to head but other devices like PCs and hand helds...they all compete for time). So to divert attention from these competitors, they make a new shiny thing and try to maximize software sales. Also, if these companies didn't have competition, they wouldn't make exclusives either.

So for MS, they are trying to maximize the thing that makes money...software. They pivoted from *just* hardware to an ecosystem/platform so now they have different entrypoints in which they need to serve their customers but they need to make sure that when they make decisions that they aren't leaving those customers behind without a path forward (that's easy for them to use...and probably one that they want them to use). So while they have a new shiny hardware because of competition, they realize that the path forward for majority of their customer base is high (buying a new console is expensive) so what they do is to make sure they can maximize profits during that transition and try to make that path forward as least expensive as possible.

So how do they do that? You have streaming for one (upgrading their azure blades to Lockhart). You also have the price reduction for consoles during the holiday season of 2021 with deals and such. Then the following year (2022) when they don't have XBO 1st party games...that's usually when you have permanent price reduction to consoles because they get cheaper to manufacture. They also (presumably) have a lower end Lockhart machine to get those more price conscious about the purchase so trying to lower the barrier to entry for those who want a hardware upgrade (streaming will still be available). So instead of "starting over"...you just try to make a smoother transition for those who aren't going to move as quickly as you would want but at the same time make more money than just on the new console because you are moving part of your userbase in your ecosystem...not just one entrypoint. Also I should note that while this timeframe is happening...Microsoft's 1st party games will showcase the XSX with its features and show much better those games run on that hardware so it will also be a marketing tactic for their current userbase to upgrade...and plus it's not like MS will be showing the games off running on Xbox One when these games are shown. :)

I'm not negating how you feel about the situation...just explaining it for others really. :)
 

Joris-truly

Banned
Nov 1, 2017
845
Netherlands
You are right, but luckily there are devs that are outside these constraints in the AAA space. If Naughty Dog or SSM wanted to really push AI or destruction or the detail in an open world in one of their games, no-one could tell them not to do it.

But multiplatform yearly franchises definitely have these shackles on scope and ambition (COD, AssCreed, FIFA etc).
Definitely. But i would care more if the industry as a whole could reap the benefits of the new tech jump, then just a handful of first parties.

High-end games got weird since forward looking PC games of yesteryear got extinct.
 

Jahranimo

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,015
Reading the replies of this thread surely must have created some unhealthy expectations for PS5 exclusives on a technical level, if I were prone to this BS I'd expect PS5 exclusives to look a generation ahead of XBSX and third party games. Confident guess here is that PS5 exclusives, Xbox
exclusives and third party games will all look relative and comparable in fidelity and scope. Preference as always will come from artstyle.
Bingo. I love well thought out posts like these.
 

Firima

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,474
Reading the replies of this thread surely must have created some unhealthy expectations for PS5 exclusives on a technical level, if I were prone to this BS I'd expect PS5 exclusives to look a generation ahead of XBSX and third party games. Confident guess here is that PS5 exclusives, Xbox
exclusives and third party games will all look relative and comparable in fidelity and scope. Preference as always will come from artstyle.

This is an accurate post. It's been 40 pages of what amounts to indirect secret sauce fantasizing and it's deeply disappointing that so many have taken the bait. Even more disappointing is that this thread is still open in light of this, but hey. Anybody thinking that Sony games are going to be double secret sophisticated while Xbox and PC and third-party games will be last-gen games needs to step away from the computer and go decompress.
 

RocknRola

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,229
Portugal
Reading the replies of this thread surely must have created some unhealthy expectations for PS5 exclusives on a technical level, if I were prone to this BS I'd expect PS5 exclusives to look a generation ahead of XBSX and third party games. Confident guess here is that PS5 exclusives, Xbox
exclusives and third party games will all look relative and comparable in fidelity and scope. Preference as always will come from artstyle.
Do you expect a game developed from the ground up for SeriesX/PS5 to be similar in all things but artsyle to one developed for PS4/XB1/SeriesX/PS5?

Because that doesn't make much sense to me. While I don't expect entire new genres I fully expect, say, Halo Infinite 2 and GoW 2 to be much too much for the current gen to handle from a technical aspect (beyond just better resolution).
 

Theorry

Member
Oct 27, 2017
61,026
Do you expect a game developed from the ground up for SeriesX/PS5 to be similar in all things but artsyle to one developed for PS4/XB1/SeriesX/PS5?

Because that doesn't make much sense to me. While I don't expect entire new genres I fully expect, say, Halo Infinite 2 and GoW 2 to be much too much for the current gen to handle from a technical aspect (beyond just better resolution).
He is talking about launch games. :)
 
Oct 27, 2017
8,631
The World
Do you expect a game developed from the ground up for SeriesX/PS5 to be similar in all things but artsyle to one developed for PS4/XB1/SeriesX/PS5?

Because that doesn't make much sense to me. While I don't expect entire new genres I fully expect, say, Halo Infinite 2 and GoW 2 to be much too much for the current gen to handle from a technical aspect (beyond just better resolution).

Halo Infinite 2 is not playable on X1. Like MS literally is talking about the first year or two, most likely the first year only unless XSX sells like utter shit or something.
 

Laver

Banned
Mar 30, 2018
2,654
I'd like to know of this great diversity of games the Xbox offers, Gears, Halo and State of Decay maybe? What else that makes it do far more diverse than PlayStation?
This year by Microsoft: Ori 2 - metroidvania; Gears Tactics - xcom-alike; Wasteland 3 - isometric RPG; Flight Sim - selfexplanatory; Psychonauts 3 - 3D platformer; Minecraft Dungeons - hack'n'slash RPG; Halo Infinite - FPS; Bleeding Edge - online brawler; Battletoads - sindescrolling beat-em-up. Microsoft does cover a lot of bases after all the acquisitions.
 

RocknRola

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,229
Portugal
He is talking about launch games. :)
Halo Infinite 2 is not playable on X1. Like MS literally is talking about the first year or two, most likely the first year only unless XSX sells like utter shit or something.
I'd recommend reading my post again bros. The user in question understood it well enough...


Yes, similar to how say Battlefield 4, Crysis 3 and Forza Horizon 2 look comparable to KZ: Shadowfall, Ryse and Knack despite the former three being based on 360/PS3 hardware.

I don't think those looked terribly similar tbh. Like I said I don't expect revolutions however none of those games (maybe Knack) could be played on the previous gen hardware without some serious limitations (ve the games we got).
 
Nov 10, 2017
131
Generational leaps in the past have gone hand in hand with new experiences not previously possible on old hardware.

I don't give a fuck about pixels. I want bigger more lived in worlds, more enemies on screen, better and more physics, higher player counts— and not in a battle royale where you can get away with it because you never see any players.

What I don't want is a console taking its cues from phones where you need to develop a game so it works on the fucking iPod touch.

And of course cross gen games have access to more players, but as the console maker you should be trying to push hardware so players have a reason to upgrade or choose your new box over the other guys.

These are the moments gamers live for. I don't want to stand in line for launch night just to play a game in higher resolution with a bit better load times.

I want Mario 64. I want Halo or Melee. I want Soul Caliber. I want Wii Sports or Playroom. Hell I'd take Ryse or Knack. I want a taste of the future— or at least an attempt at something ambitious and fresh thanks to new technology and the hefty price tag
 
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ValiantChaos

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
1,112
Question

What could Halo Infinite on Series X do that Halo Infinite on Xbox One could not do? Is the game built for Series X and scaled down?

Like could Blood Gulch Slayer 50 v 50 be possible on Series X but because Xbox One version cant handle it it wont be a playlist.
 

Poison Jam

Member
Nov 6, 2017
2,984
I just hope the development teams don't bite over more then they can chew; considering they have to make versions for Xbox One, Xbox One X, Xbox Series X, possibly Xbox Series S, and the rather demanding (since you have to scale for vastly different hardware) PC.
 

Cranster

Prophet of Truth
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,788
Question

What could Halo Infinite on Series X do that Halo Infinite on Xbox One could not do? Is the game built for Series X and scaled down?

Like could Blood Gulch Slayer 50 v 50 be possible on Series X but because Xbox One version cant handle it it wont be a playlist.


50 vs 50 BTB will not happen because it's a gameplay design decision, not because of tech limitations.
 
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goonergaz

Member
Nov 18, 2017
1,710
This year by Microsoft: Ori 2 - metroidvania; Gears Tactics - xcom-alike; Wasteland 3 - isometric RPG; Flight Sim - selfexplanatory; Psychonauts 3 - 3D platformer; Minecraft Dungeons - hack'n'slash RPG; Halo Infinite - FPS; Bleeding Edge - online brawler; Battletoads - sindescrolling beat-em-up. Microsoft does cover a lot of bases after all the acquisitions.

Which of those are actual exclusives? At least the ones I listed were only on PlayStation consoles.

Either way the arguement was that PS lacks diversity, which clearly is untrue.
 

huH1678

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,029
Microsoft should just make cross gen games forever since you can just scale games indefinitely according to some posters. It'd be anti-consumer to not do so lol...
 

Hudsoniscool

Banned
Jun 5, 2018
1,495
I can see Warzone being much bigger and XSX/PC exclusive

This is my hope. Xbox one gets the same arena mode/firefight. But war zone 2.0 with maps the size of Fortnite, 100+ players, ai, wildlife, deep armor and weapons customization. I hope this mode is only for next gen/pc.

You can scale single player games easily or port if need be. But multiplayer is harder because the Xbox one players have to see the same things as the XSX players.

Look at pubg. Pc ultra players are at a clear disadvantage playing against people on low settings. The foliage is so much denseron ultra that it makes it much hard to see players. On ultra I might be laying in a bush thinking no one can see me. Then the guy standing 50 feet from me see me laying on the ground and can barely even see the bush.

I think Microsoft will get this right. If 343 makes a mode that is technically ambitious for the XSX they won't let the Xbox one stop the mode from releasing. Either that mode will be excluded from the Xbox one version or they will get their own cut down version of it.
 

Detective Pidgey

Alt Account
Banned
Jun 4, 2019
6,255
Why are we worrying so much about this? Let's say Microsoft's studios all target XSX hardware from now on for their upcoming games, taking advantage of the new hardware , which to me would make sense, it's the future we're talking about. And then scale shit down so that it can run on the old systems as well.

I see no problem with that at all. I really doubt devs will be targeting Xbox One X, so if we go by that logic, buyers of XSX have nothing to worry about.
 

RocknRola

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,229
Portugal
I only understood the first part, the second part with Halo Infinite 2 and GoW 2 is a little fuzzy. If you're asking if I think GoW 2 could run on PS4 then the answer is no because the tech would have advanced quickly and probably beyond what PS4 could achieve, barring some major port downgrading. But GoW 2 is years down the line, this topic will be long irrelevant by the time it releases and PS4/XB1 will no longer be supported.
GoW 2 or Halo Infinite 2 are just examples of games coming to next systems (presuming the names follow simple conventions of course). A more pratical example would be, say, Horizon Zero Dawn 2 (or whatever it's named) which will likely release in 2021 or the next mainline Forza, also likely a 2021 title.

In any case, the point is that even games released in that launch period seem immediately infeasible on the previous hardware unless they started their life there in the first place. A notorious example is Shadow of Mordor's PS3 version missing a crucial element of the game (the Nemesis System). This was a 2014 game btw. The new hardware will enable devs to employ ever more complex systems, AI, routines, denser maps, denser crowds, etc. Depending on what the game is and what the point of said systems is, keeping yourself tied to the previous gen might just not be possible at all.

Which is why I find this notion of keeping games tied, even if for a year or two, to the previous gen by force a bit....odd. Unless all devs are willing to work around that (either by keeping things simple, making different versions, whatever really) it seems a bit...limiting. At least that's how I see it.
 
Oct 30, 2017
565
This is terrible news. Simply because if I'm spending $500+ on a system I want games just for that system. Granted hopefully halo infinite has a huge advantage over Xbox one version.
 

etta

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,512
User warned: Console warring
grab some popcorn and go read the kotaku PS5 exclusives thread
my god, the things they tell themselves and to each other
truly deluded stuff
 

RocknRola

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,229
Portugal
GoW 2 and Halo Infinite 2 are both way too far off to make that assessment. The best way for this to work is to look at Halo Infinite and a PS5 AAA launch exclusive and try to pinpoint the superior technical aspects of the latter, assuming there are any. If Halo Infinite matches up to whatever PS5 has at launch then the complaining in this thread was all for nought.
You're fixating on two random examples which are purposely absurd, I merely brought them as I didn't recall any other exclusives at the time of that post (and added 2 to either to signify they would be next-gen exclusive and not cross-gen).

I've already said that an Horizon >ero Dawn sequel and a new mainline Forza entry are more likely to happen in 2021, hell I'd say they're expected to happen even considering when the last entries of each released (2017).
 

thecaseace

Member
May 1, 2018
3,219
A question for those who think this is a bad move by Microsoft.

Do you:

a) think Sony will release games exclusive to the PS5 at launch?

b) ...if you think Sony will release PS5 exclusives do you think they will be significantly better graphically than crossgen on the Series X?

Because if you don't think a hypothetical PS5 exclusive will be significantly better looking than a Series X game, I struggle to see why there's 42 pages here?
 

Searsy82

Member
May 13, 2019
860
Yup, very anti-consumer. All these games should have been cross-gen games with the PS1....

28590845283_9bd5d77b7d_b.jpg


Every game released in the first year of a console should be dialed down so that it's playable on previous generation hardware 👀.


What exactly is this image supposed to prove? Seven of those titles are third party titles. There are zero stipulations that third parties have to dial games back or make games cross-gen.

This isn't difficult to understand and I'm kind of at a loss for why there is so much debate. Most of MS' studio acquisitions came in the last year and most of the games in development at those studios were designed with current gen systems in mind. Games currently in the design phase will obviously target the next gen system and "coincidentally" these games would also be launching beyond the specified window. The realignment of these studios is a long term project, not something that turns around and bears fruit overnight.

Here are their 2020 titles:
  • March 11: Ori and the Will of the Wisps
  • March 24: Bleeding Edge
  • April: Minecraft Dungeons (also on Switch and PS4)
  • April 28: Gears Tactics (PC)
  • May 19: Wasteland 3 (published by Deep Silver)
  • Spring 2020: Grounded
  • Summer 2020: Tell me Why
  • Holiday 2020: Halo Infinite
  • TBA 2020: Psychonauts 2, Microsoft Flight Simulator, Wasteland Remaster, Battletoads
There is ZERO reason to try to shoe-horn any of those titles into launch exclusivity. None.

If you have reservations about how this may affect Halo Infinite, fine. I get that. I'll reserve judgement until I finally see the game in action.
 

Stook

Member
Oct 30, 2017
74
GoW 2 or Halo Infinite 2 are just examples of games coming to next systems (presuming the names follow simple conventions of course). A more pratical example would be, say, Horizon Zero Dawn 2 (or whatever it's named) which will likely release in 2021 or the next mainline Forza, also likely a 2021 title.

In any case, the point is that even games released in that launch period seem immediately infeasible on the previous hardware unless they started their life there in the first place. A notorious example is Shadow of Mordor's PS3 version missing a crucial element of the game (the Nemesis System). This was a 2014 game btw. The new hardware will enable devs to employ ever more complex systems, AI, routines, denser maps, denser crowds, etc. Depending on what the game is and what the point of said systems is, keeping yourself tied to the previous gen might just not be possible at all.

Which is why I find this notion of keeping games tied, even if for a year or two, to the previous gen by force a bit....odd. Unless all devs are willing to work around that (either by keeping things simple, making different versions, whatever really) it seems a bit...limiting. At least that's how I see it.
^This right here!
 
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asmith906

Member
Oct 27, 2017
27,395
I dont know why everyone is focused on just the launch when its saying there could be no exclusives for up to 2 years. Previous consoles absolutely can hold back new consoles especially if it's an online game. There's a reason destiny had to drop the ps3/360 versions.
 

RocknRola

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,229
Portugal
The guy brings up GoW 2 and Halo Infinite 2 then flips out on me for using said examples in my argument. Okay then, bye.

Not sure why you're so concerned with such semantic details in my post when the argument is the same across all scenarios no matter what stupid game is being used as an example.

You're the one that said those games can't be used though. Literally:

GoW 2 and Halo Infinite 2 are both way too far off to make that assessment. The best way for this to work is to look at Halo Infinite and a PS5 AAA launch exclusive and try to pinpoint the superior technical aspects of the latter, assuming there are any. If Halo Infinite matches up to whatever PS5 has at launch then the complaining in this thread was all for nought.


So I gave you different ones, which you ignored. As well as the rest of my post btw.

This what? The X1/PS4 versions of Shadow of Mordor came out fully realized. The 360/PS3 versions came out somewhat gimped meaning that devs can and will make cuts to last gen ports to fully realize their vision when necessary. Shadow of Mordor was also one of the better looking games of its time and the PS4/X1 versions don't seem like they were deeply lagging behind in any one technical aspect compared to then exclusive next gen offerings.

Shadow of Mordor on PS3 had worse everything: resolution, framerate, textures, performances and lacked a C-R-U-C-I-A-L system of the next-gen versions of the game: the Nemesis System. The gameplay is centered around that. It's the poster example of why, even in the launch period, it's not always feasible to keep yourself tied to last-gen hardware. And thus the devs didn't, which resulted in the next-gen versions being great and the PS3 version being crap.
 

Sanka

Banned
Feb 17, 2019
5,778
All xbox games from now on will also run on the PC with all its different hardware configurations. Why would they even need to discontinue the xbox one when low pc settings should work just fine.
 
Dec 31, 2017
1,430
I dont know why everyone is focused on just the launch when its saying there could be no exclusives for up to 2 years. Previous consoles absolutely can hold back new consoles especially if it's an online game. There's a reason destiny had to drop the ps3/360 versions.
The problem is the quote says next year or 2, not next 2 years. It could mean a lot of different things, like only a few select titles that were already in development hitting bot current as nextgen consoles (like Halo Infinite). Could also mean only 1 year, which ends a little after the release of Xbox Series X. So early 2021 could still have next gen games, but then holidays 2021 will be all next gen only.

All MS games come to Gamepass, however, they are also bringing 3rd party games to Ganepass, and there are enough to keep Xbox One owners busy for quite a while, especially since a lot of indie titles are most likely to be able to run on older hardware and still come our day 1 on GamePass.

People are interpreting the quote the way they want, while in reality I have a feeling only a few games will hit both gens at once. I wouldn't even be surprised if the next Forza Motorsport, for example, is next gen only while Halo, with the kind of budget the game has, was being developed to hit the largest install base possible to recoup its cost.
 

RocknRola

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,229
Portugal
We're talking about the P-S-4-/-X-B-1 version of Shadow of Mordor hon, now if you can prove that those versions were gimped or dramatically inferior to the other games released back then you'd have an argument. Until then you're just going round in circles, very wrong circles.
Are you serious? We know the PS3 version HAD to be different. As in: the same exact game couldn't be played on both older hardware and newer hardware. Hence in order to not gimp the new version, the older version was different (and much worse). Which means that they had to let go of older hardware in the very first year of the newer hardware. Or in simpler terms: if MS had this approach back then, the PS4/XB1 Shadow of Mordor would not have the Nemesis System at all.

Which is NOT what MS apparently wants nor many of you implied with this approach. Not all devs have the time or size to work with two different versions of a game. And to avoid that you'd have to make sure whatever works on Series X has to work on Xbox One. Which implies, by default, limiting what your new game can do.

Got it, hon?
 

giallo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,238
Seoul
So every new 1st party game will have to run on the X1S? That kinda sucks. The X1S is ancient. New games are running at 720p on that thing.
 

pswii60

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,673
The Milky Way
Are we totally sure we are interpreting Booty's words correctly?

Just to recap what he actually said: "As our content comes out over the next year, two years, all of our games, sort of like PC, will play up and down that family of devices".

"Over the next year", given the interview was done last November, would potentially still mean next gen exclusives in the XSX launch period. Obviously "two years" goes beyond that however.

It feels like his key point was to reassure potential XBO buyers that there will still be a strong commitment to content, and also make the point that any content purchased will play on XSX too.

Given how this one sentence from this one interview has totally blown up this weekend, it'll be interesting to see if we get any kind of clarification from MS this week, directly or indirectly.