"Mature, intelligent stories" as an excuse for gratuitous naked women.

[Siggy-P]

Just earlier today (technically yesterday as it's post midnight) I finally got around to watching Blade Runner 2049 with my younger brother. I've seen it numerous times, he hasn't.

He liked it well enough, but when

Spoiler

we got to the scene were the hookers approach K he rolled his eyes at the moaning naked women against the opaque glass. This scene being not too long after Jared Letos bit with the other naked woman.

That's to be expected, because he's my brother and it's awkward enough, but I asked him "what?" cus I'd jokingly warned him there was a lot of nudity, to which he replied "every film about AI!"

While technically not true about all AI films, he was reffering to a similar comment he made a while back when we first saw the trailer for Ghost in the Shell were Scarlet Johansen kisses a woman in the trailer and dances on a strip pole at another point.

I also thought about how Westworld, a show he hasn't seen but I have, is like Blade Runnder filled with a

Spoiler

lot of nudity.

Ex-Machinima as well, as much as I like that film,

Spoiler

absolutely did not need its two main women to be as naked for as long as they did.

And I haven't even gotten into Altered Carbon yet.

But I suppose the thing is that it's not just AI or even sci-fi. A lot of media that's supposedly approching topics about philisophical or mature concepts just see it it as a convenient excuse to fill themselves with unecesary gratuitous female nudity because "nudity is mature guyz!".

So does anyone else see it as a bit weird that we're seeing this eccessive rise in specifically good looking young-ish naked women in film and TV the past decade? Like Cyberpunk the game suposedly has nudity, but after Witcher 3 I expect it to be just a ton of hot 20-30 year old women for 90% of the time.



Edit:

Cus some of you are incapable of critical thought let me be clear. I'm not saying that nudity is bad or should be gone. I'm just making a point that a lot of films and TV shows see the inclusion of nudity as a mature topic as instead an excuse to go overboard with it.

2nd Edit:
removed the bit about Westworld being gratuitous as people are right about that. I was just using it as an example

 

[Madao]

sex still sells.

 

[JazzmanZ]

Mature is just an excuse to bring in guns and swear like a sailor mouth while trying to untangle your complicated past SEGA half assed

 

[TheChewyWaffles]

People like to see attractive people naked.

 

[Valcrist]

You bring up a lot of female nudity on TV, but I see just as much male nudity, and they show dicks on TV. I've seriously never seen a vagina on TV. Tons of breasts, though. #freethepussy

 

[Surface of Me]

Ex Machina and Blade Runner 2049 I think are examples of using nudity to fit the themes and story.

I agree with Westworld and also Game of Thrones. Seems like HBO thinks nudity brings in the viewers.

I also don't think it's a recent trend. My roomies and I just watched Total Recall and yeah, the woman with three tits lol.

 

[nasirum]

Shouldn't this go to Etcetera?

 

[Senator Toadstool]

You have a point about the age of the women (and general lack of a mirror image of sexualized men) but sex, relationships and wrestling with lust are a big part of "maturing and maturity"

 

[Vonnegut]

It certainly doesn't advance the plot. I think studios understand that they can't afford to exclude nudity, especially if there is a sizeable audience that will consume the product if it simply includes nudity. I remember a show called Mindhunter (on Netflix) that includes a lot of graphic sex scenes and sexual language, and much of it was not needed. I just wanted a wholesome show about catching serial killers.

 

[Siggy-P]

... thought this was off-topic. Whoops

 

[lowhighkang_LHK]

Is Altered Carbon worthy of a watch? Netflix stuff is so hit and miss nowadays.

 

[Skel1ingt0n]

Ex Machina and Blade Runner 2049 I think are examples of using nudity to fit the themes and story.

I agree with Westworld and also Game of Thrones. Seems like HBO thinks nudity brings in the viewers.

I also don't think it's a recent trend. My roomies and I just watched Total Recall and yeah, the woman with three tits lol.

Click to shrink...

It's not porn. It's HBO.

 

[galv]

The reason that nudity is so prevalent in AI/science-fiction is because it's a metaphor for an abstract social construct that a computer wouldn't necessarily understand. It's an allusion to the biblical idea that pre-fruit of knowledge, humans weren't self-conscious. A lot of AI stories revolve around the idea of self-consciousness, self-awareness and existentialism so it's quite clear why parallels are drawn between the biblical idea of the birth of humanity as God's creation, to the birth of AI as human creation. We are born into this world naked without self-consciousness and without knowledge.

When it comes to Westworld, which features a great deal of both the male and female cast naked, the nudity is to represent the power dynamic between humans (God) and their creations (humans pre-fruit of knowledge). The whole point of Season 1 of Westworld was that the AIs while they were self-aware were still locked into their programming. They were not conscious (i.e., they hadn't found the forbidden fruit/center of the maze yet). It plays into the biblical allusion. Ghost in the Shell uses nudity of the shells in a similar manner to Westworld as well. Does it all need to be female nudity? No. I think Westworld does a good job not having nudity for the sake of having nudity, and balances both genders equally. I don't think it's deliberately trying to objectify women. Ex Machina as well, has female nudity because it's heavily implied Nathan was raping his AI creations and was basically building a harem of female AI for him to fuck.

I'm fine with tasteful nudity that has some amount of meaning behind it. Nudity in itself isn't a bad thing in my eyes.

 

[JohnnyMoses]

Kyle Reese was nude in the beginning of The Terminator.

The increasing violence bothers me more than increasing nudity.

 

[Gatti-man]

Nudity is doesn't bother me unless it reaches game of thrones season 1 quanitity

 

[Senator Toadstool]

Again beyond the misogyn in particular depictions. What is the, problem, with sexual representation? It's a fundamental part of human life and would likely be represented in any work that tackles "human themes" to exclude it is creating a mythical reality where human emotions, desires and realities are arificially denied.

Sci-fi is replete with this because of its themes of human failbility and over estimation of our abilities vs the reality of our humanity and it's faults (which a lot has to do with sexual urges and sexual desires)

 

[Heebie Jeebies]

The nakedness is used to emphasise the advancement of how human-like the androids are.

 

[Krvavi Abadas]

People just want to fuck robots, it's a pretty simple concept to understand. It doesn't even matter how human they look, remember when everyone was thirsting over the Lost in Space robot?

It's either that, or cute monster people. I prefer the former.

 

[Strings]

Is Altered Carbon worthy of a watch? Netflix stuff is so hit and miss nowadays.

Click to shrink...

Nah, pretty poor acting and pacing. Also some incompetently put together scenes that don't cut together.

That said, I didn't like the book it was based on either.

 

[rude]

Where is the gratuitous nudity in Westworld aside from the Season 1 episode where they went to orgytown?

A better example would've been Game of Thrones in terms of television.

 

[Xenon]

I agree with Westworld and also Game of Thrones. Seems like HBO thinks nudity brings in the viewers.

I also don't think it's a recent trend. My roomies and I just watched Total Recall and yeah, the woman with three tits lol.

Click to shrink...

It's funny HBO seems to like to throw in exposition during it's sex scenes on GoT. It's a very efficient use of the scenes.


I think it's a safe bet to predict that the first thing humanity will do when it creates new life, is try to fuck it.

 

[Senator Toadstool]

It certainly doesn't advance the plot. I think studios understand that they can't afford to exclude nudity, especially if there is a sizeable audience that will consume the product if it simply includes nudity. I remember a show called Mindhunter (on Netflix) that includes a lot of graphic sex scenes and sexual language, and much of it was not needed. I just wanted a wholesome show about catching serial killers.

Click to shrink...

this isn't what every image and scene is supposed to do. this is often the laziest criticism of narrative works

 

[spad3]

Is Altered Carbon worthy of a watch? Netflix stuff is so hit and miss nowadays.

Click to shrink...

It's definitely worth a sit through, even though it's fairly edgy and cringey at times, I like the world it set up and the overall vibe. HEAVILY influenced by Blade Runner. You could literally say it takes place in the same universe as Blade Runner and it would legit work.

 

[TaleSpun]

You might wanna clarify your definition of "gratuitous" since the nudity in Westworld is anything, but that.

 

[TheMango55]

You bring up a lot of female nudity on TV, but I see just as much male nudity, and they show dicks on TV. I've seriously never seen a vagina on TV. Tons of breasts, though. #freethepussy

Click to shrink...

Yeah I can't even remember the last time I saw a vulva on TV.

There was the briefest glimpes of one in True Detective season 1.

 

[Prophaniti]

The reason that nudity is so prevalent in AI/science-fiction is because it's a metaphor for an abstract social construct that a computer wouldn't necessarily understand. It's an allusion to the biblical idea that pre-fruit of knowledge, humans weren't self-conscious. When it comes to Westworld, which features a great deal of both the male and female cast naked, the nudity is to represent the power dynamic between humans (God) and their creations (humans pre-fruit of knowledge). Ghost in the Shell uses nudity of the shells in a similar manner to Westworld as well.

Does it all need to be female nudity? No. I think Westworld does a good job not having nudity for the sake of having nudity, and balances both genders equally. I don't think it's deliberately trying to objectify women. Ex Machina as well, has female nudity because it's heavily implied Nathan was raping his AI creations and was basically building a harem of female AI for him to fuck.

I'm fine with tasteful nudity that has some amount of meaning behind it. Nudity in itself isn't a bad thing in my eyes.

Click to shrink...

Spoiler: Ex machina

I thought that was all fake? Everything was to manipulate the main character into helping the AI. She was even based on his porn search history. Everything he saw and did was carefully measured. Maybe I'm crazy.

 

[Senator Toadstool]

I think there's also a case where prudishness can diminish "mature works." by omission.

One of the things nudity and sex can portray that can be often hard to otherwise (though not all the time) is vulnerableness, shame and intimacy

 

[Valcrist]

Yeah I can't even remember the last time I saw a vulva on TV.

There was the briefest glimpes of one in True Detective season 1.

Click to shrink...

Really? I watched that but didn't notice. I've always thought it was kind of odd that dicks can be shown but vaginas are off limits on TV. I'm guessing it's because they're all prosthetic dicks or something, I don't know.

 

[Tracygill]

Is Altered Carbon worthy of a watch? Netflix stuff is so hit and miss nowadays.

Click to shrink...

No, the dialogue is very bad which is a shame because the set design looks good.

 

[galv]

Spoiler: Ex machina

I thought that was all fake? Everything was to manipulate the main character into helping the AI. She was even based on his porn search history. Everything he saw and did was carefully measured. Maybe I'm crazy.

Click to shrink...

Spoiler: Ex Machina

The main AI that Hux talks to over the movie was crafted around his tastes, but the others that we see in the movie were all made for Nathan.

 

[Nav]

Cyberpunk taught me that nudity is essential to explore themes of transhumanism? Also, that we still stereotype Mexican and Indian people in the future.

 

[Siggy-P]

So uhh... can i move this to off-topic myself or do I gotta wait for a mod to do it? :(

Again beyond the misogyn in particular depictions. What is the, problem, with sexual representation? It's a fundamental part of human life and would likely be represented in any work that tackles "human themes" to exclude it is creating a mythical reality where human emotions, desires and realities are arificially denied.

Click to shrink...

Never said there was any problem with representing sexuality. Blade Runner certainly does a lot of that.

I'm on about excessive nudity. It kind of fits the story and theme but it's a mighty conveniant excuse for titilation.

 

[Vonnegut]

this isn't what every image and scene is supposed to do. this is often the laziest criticism of narrative works

Click to shrink...

Well I didn't need a scene where a female character told the male character to "finger [her] pu**y." It didn't help develop the character, it didn't advance the plot, and it didn't foreshadow anything.

 

[AuthenticM]

There was nothing gratuitous in Blade Runner 2049.

 

[Somni]

Every other medium permits the portrayal of nude women for a variety of reasons. Video games should be no exception, we do have a rating system in place after all.

Nudity is an inherent part of the human experience.

 

[Dyle]

Sex and desire are a complicated semi-subconscious part of the human condition that no one fully understands so it makes for a ripe field of imagery, metaphor, and exploration as a core theme of adult-oriented art and media. However, because media that deals with these themes is often most appealing to niche audiences they have to highlight these sexy aspects in order to draw in a larger crowd. There are definitely lots of examples that take it too far though and in the process cheapen the mature themes of sex and sexuality that they attempt to depict. I imagine it's often tough to balance the author's artistic vision and the network producers' viewership demands

I found the nudity in Blade Runner to be completely thematically appropriate and used effectively

 

[Prophaniti]

Spoiler: Ex Machina

The main AI that Hux talks to over the movie was crafted around his tastes, but the others that we see in the movie were all made for Nathan.

Click to shrink...

Spoiler: Machina

see I thought him finding the video where the other ai is being "abused" and smashing itself was on purpose. So Hux would have an emotional response. Like, ALL of it was a show. Down to what temp it was and what food they ate. The thread count on the sheets. All of it was part of the experiment. Now I have to watch again.

 

[Deleted member 4037]

While there is a lot of nudity in west world (some of which is for the sake of nudity), I would say a lot of it isnt and is down right creepy. Nudity isnt always used for titillation and west world is actually a great example of where it isnt used solely for that. Something like Ex Machina too I thought was more serious given the context, but you could go both ways on that one. Havent seen blade runner 2049, so I cant really comment on that.

also this should probably be on the off topic side

 

[mario_O]

I'm all in for more naked people, women and men. And less violence. Peace and love brah.

 

[Germanzepp]

I don't have any problem with sex , nudity or violence in movies/media. Of course context is key. I prefer meaningfuI action/nudity scenes with well paces shots (Taxi driver, Pulp Fiction, The Drop) that fast & furius hollywood full action nonsence. I don't like any kind gore tough being Tarantino my maximun tolerance.

 

[Z-Beat]

Every other medium permits the portrayal of nude women for a variety of reasons. Video games should be no exception, we do have a rating system in place after all.

Nudity is an inherent part of the human experience.

Click to shrink...

Nah, no nudity. Throw some intestines over those naked bodies to make it safe for viewing

 

[Hobbesian Thudercat]

Westworld has toned down the female nudity a great deal this past season. Much to my personal chagrin.

 

[Solo Kazama]

?

9/10 its the opposite

 

[Why would you do that?]

So uhh... can i move this to off-topic myself or do I gotta wait for a mod to do it? :(

Click to shrink...

Supposedly you can report your own OP post and ask the mods to move it (or close it or whatever).

Though the thread does happen to have relevance on the video games side lol.

 

[Heid]

The nakedness is used to emphasise the advancement of how human-like the androids are.

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Then where are all the robo dongs.

 

[Morrigan]

So uhh... can i move this to off-topic myself or do I gotta wait for a mod to do it? :(

Click to shrink...

I've moved it, but you can report your own OP next time.

 

[Siggy-P]

thank you mods.

 

[Shauni]

So uhh... can i move this to off-topic myself or do I gotta wait for a mod to do it? :(



Never said there was any problem with representing sexuality. Blade Runner certainly does a lot of that.

I'm on about excessive nudity. It kind of fits the story and theme but it's a mighty conveniant excuse for titilation.

Click to shrink...

If 2049 is excessive use to you, I don't know, you may just want to do your best to stick to PG-13 movies or something. The amount of nudity in that film is pretty low and brief overall.

 

[Jpop]

People just want to fuck robots, it's a pretty simple concept to understand. It doesn't even matter how human they look, remember when everyone was thirsting over the Lost in Space robot?

It's either that, or cute monster people. I prefer the former.

Click to shrink...

What??? This was never a thing at all.

 

[Pwnz]

At least it's not constant sexism of the 1990s.