• To celebrate the release of Halo: The Master Chief Collection on Steam, Xbox Games Studios has provided 5 Steam copies of the game and 5 Xbox One copies of the game! We will be giving these away in the Gaming Giveaways |OT|. Some Steam copies will also be given away to the PC Gaming Era community.
  • An old favorite feature returns: Q&ERA is back! This time we'll be collecting questions for Remedy Entertainment, makers of Max Payne, Alan Wake, Quantum Break, and Control. Members can submit questions for the next 3 days, 7 hours, 32 minutes. Submissions will close on Dec 12, 2019 at 12:00 AM.

Media Create Sales: Week 14, 2018 (Apr 02 - Apr 08)

Oct 25, 2017
14,664
remember I guys asked a some days go whether LABO was going to be tracked?

yeah yeah, I knew it.

they think Labo is an interactive toy and not a videogame with an add-on
Famitsu does, not Media Create or Dengeki (at least they didn't announce that they weren't going to track it). So far Famitsu is the outlier, not the norm.
 

Kresnik

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,256
YSO prediction numbers are up.

Labo might be higher than I thought.
Looks like Metal Max will be dead after this one then.

it's not that far from 4 tho. Series just has low appeal and that's even why they tried PS this time.
I read somewhere (and I can't for the life of me remember where) that the producer had said somewhere that Xeno was a last ditch attempt to keep the series alive.

It certainly looks like they spent a bit more money on it this time around, so if it's gonna stay in niche ~20k sales status then I can't see it living much longer.
 

ILikeFeet

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,401
„Labo will bomb so hard, its not even a Videogame.“

Something like that maybe ?
"Labo is not a 'videogame'! it can't be counted traditionally. you sony ponies need to learn that NIntendo is aiming wider than the traditional gaming market!"

bam, ninten-babby defense already written up
 

Nirolak

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,660
Well, isn't that what they mean by stagnating. SE tried many new IPs and almost everything underperformed. The money is staying with the top softwares - it's a service-based industry - and using IPs like FF and Dragon Quest is generating more revenue.
I got the sense they meant straight revenue contraction.

Is SINoALICE part of SE or they are just publishing it.
The game itself is published by GREE. It’s similar to Final Fantasy XV, where what they’re getting is licensing revenue, even if it’s from mobile games, so they might put that in a different financial column.

Well, you are in luck because Yasuda made a whole article on mobile in Japan for April (the financial round ups were for March).

Which, I probably don't have the time to TL before I am gone. You can probably read Japanese so you can check it out (at least I think you can read Japanese from memory).

As with any analyst, he can be wrong, though I sure hope he don't make up his numbers, at least. IIRC, he said several companies (which isn't specific beyond SE and Bamco in the article I translated) had faced general contraction in the recent quarters, but he really only raised the specific example of SE and Bamco (and for Bamco just one game)...since KT, Capcom and N1 have barely any mobile game presence.

In this new article, he has more concrete examples of COLOPL, Konami, GREE etc.

The title of the article is "Is the mobile market in Japan retracing the steps of the Pachinko market?"
Actually, I think I understand my mistakes here.

1.) The time period here is Q3 to Q4, and Square Enix hasn’t publicly broken that out yet, so I wouldn’t have seen it in their fiscal reports yet. It’s certainly possible they went down here.

2.) It’s not 100% clear here, but I think he’s only referring to Japan as well. Square and Namco in particular are unusual because they get good overseas mobile revenue. His statement was confusing to me as Dokkan Battle has been in the top 10 in the US recently, along with the top 10 worldwide at times, but he might just mean it’s making less in Japan, which is definitely true to my knowledge.

Thanks for the links.
 
OP
OP
Chris1964

Chris1964

SalesEra Genius
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,961
Week 16, 2018 (Apr 16 - Apr 22)

new releases

{2018.04.18}
[3DS] Dragon Lapis _3DS Download Software_ |DL| <RPG> (Kemco) (¥740)

{2018.04.19}
[3DS] It's Fun: Interesting Han Exam Elementary School Student <EDU> (Shogakukan) (¥4.500)
[3DS] It's Fun: Interesting Han Exam Elementary School Student (ε) _Nintendo eShop Download Version_ |DL| <EDU> (Shogakukan) (¥4.500)
[3DS] Shin Megami Tensei IV & Shin Megami Tensei IV: Apocalypse - Double Hero Pack {Shin Megami Tensei IV \ Shin Megami Tensei IV: Apocalypse} <RPG> (Atlus) (¥4.980)
[3DS] Super Battle For Money Sentouchuu: Kyuukyoku no Shinobu to Battle Player Choujou Kessen! [Welcome Price!!] <ACT> (Bandai Namco Games) (¥2.800)
[3DS] Super Battle For Money Sentouchuu: Kyuukyoku no Shinobu to Battle Player Choujou Kessen! (ε) _Nintendo eShop Download Version_ |DL| [Welcome Price!!] <ACT> (Bandai Namco Games) (¥2.800)
[PSV] Metal Max Xeno # <RPG> (Kadokawa Games) (¥6.980)
[PSV] Metal Max Xeno (Limited Edition) <RPG> (Kadokawa Games) (¥10.000)
[PSV] Metal Max Xeno (ε) _PS Store Download Version_ |DL| # <RPG> (Kadokawa Games) (¥6.480)
[PSV] Metal Max Xeno (ε) _PS Store Download Version_ |DL| (Digital Premium Edition) <RPG> (Kadokawa Games) (¥7.852)
[NSW] Neo Atlas 1469 # <SLG> (Artdink) (¥5.980)
[NSW] Neo Atlas 1469 (Guidebook Pack) <SLG> (Artdink) (¥6.480)
[NSW] Neo Atlas 1469 (ε) _Nintendo eShop Download Version_ |DL| <SLG> (Artdink) (¥5.980)
[NSW] Wonder Boy: The Dragon's Trap _Nintendo Switch Download Software_ |DL| <ACT> (Pikii) (¥3.400)
[NSW] Portal Knights _Nintendo Switch Download Software_ |DL| <RPG> (Spike Chunsoft) (¥3.300)
[NSW] Ninja Striker! _Nintendo Switch Download Software_ |DL| <RPG> (Flyhigh Works) (¥462)
[NSW] Voxel Shot for Nintendo Switch _Nintendo Switch Download Software_ |DL| <STG> (Sat-Box) (¥740)
[NSW] ACA NeoGeo: Real Bout Fatal Fury Special _Nintendo Switch Download Software_ |DL| <FTG> (Hamster) (¥762)
[PS4] Metal Max Xeno # <RPG> (Kadokawa Games) (¥6.980)
[PS4] Metal Max Xeno (Limited Edition) <RPG> (Kadokawa Games) (¥10.000)
[PS4] Metal Max Xeno (ε) _PS Store Download Version_ |DL| # <RPG> (Kadokawa Games) (¥6.480)
[PS4] Metal Max Xeno (ε) _PS Store Download Version_ |DL| (Digital Premium Edition) <RPG> (Kadokawa Games) (¥7.852)
[PS4] TT Isle of Man: Ride on the Edge # <RCE> (Oizumi Amuzio) (¥6.980)
[PS4] TT Isle of Man: Ride on the Edge (Deluxe Edition) <RCE> (Oizumi Amuzio) (¥9.680)
[PS4] TT Isle of Man: Ride on the Edge (ε) _PS Store Download Version_ |DL| <RCE> (Oizumi Amuzio) (¥6.462)
[PS4] Gravel <RCE> (Oizumi Amuzio) (¥7.980)
[PS4] Gravel (ε) _PS Store Download Version_ |DL| <RCE> (Oizumi Amuzio) (¥7.389)
[PS4] Digimon World: Next Order [Welcome Price!!] <RPG> (Bandai Namco Games) (¥3.800)
[PS4] Digimon World: Next Order (ε) _PS Store Download Version_ |DL| [Welcome Price!!] <RPG> (Bandai Namco Games) (¥3.800)

{2018.04.20}
[NSW] Nintendo Labo Toy-Con 01: Variety Kit <ETC> (Nintendo) (¥6.980)
[NSW] Nintendo Labo Toy-Con 02: Robot Kit <ACT> (Nintendo) (¥7.980)
[NSW] Manticore: Galaxy on Fire _Nintendo Switch Download Software_ |DL| <SLG> (Koch Media) (¥1.944)
[PS4] God of War # <ACT> (Sony Interactive Entertainment) (¥6.900)
[PS4] God of War (PlayStation 4 Pro God of War Limited Edition) <BUN> (Sony Interactive Entertainment) (¥49.980)
[PS4] God of War (ε) _PS Store Download Version_ |DL| # <ACT> (Sony Interactive Entertainment) (¥6.900)
[PS4] God of War (ε) _PS Store Download Version_ |DL| (Digital Deluxe Edition) <ACT> (Sony Interactive Entertainment) (¥7.900)
__

YSO predictions

01. [PS4] God of War < 45k (average 40k) [week 1]
02. [NSW] Kirby Star Allies < 25k (average 20k) [week 6]
03. [NSW] Splatoon 2 < 20k [week 40]
03. [PS4] Metal Max < 20k [week 1]
00. [NSW] Nintendo Labo < 120k (average 100k) [week 1]
 

Mory Dunz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,619
So Labo software is the only thing that's tracked right.

as in, someone could buy a bunch of the cardboard or whatever, but that doesn't matter.



49./54. [PS4] Dynasty Warriors 9 (Koei Tecmo) {2018.02.08} - 850 / 172,007

what did DW8 do? Cause this seems pretty dang bad.
 

Deleted member 2793

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,368
I got the sense they meant straight revenue contraction.

The game itself is published by GREE. It’s similar to Final Fantasy XV, where what they’re getting is licensing revenue, even if it’s from mobile games, so they might put that in a different financial column.
Isn't the whole mobile market having a revenue contraction?

Had no idea about GREE publishing it. Just assumed it would be SE considering another company developed the game (which is usual).
 

MoonFrog

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,748
it can't be counted traditionally.
That's delicious lol How can it be counted if it can't be counted in units sold?

I mean, you can make arguments about the varying meaning of units sold (or revenue, or profit) for different software (relative to ambitions, budget, alternate monetization, installed base effect, etc.) but what would this non-traditional counting be? It seems to move these post-count issues to a pre-count position.

(I get you are joking tbc, just thought it was a funny idea)
 

Nirolak

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,660
Isn't the whole mobile market having a revenue contraction?

Had no idea about GREE publishing it. Just assumed it would be SE considering another company developed the game (which is usual).
A bunch of analysts expected revenue to be completely stagnant or even start contracting over the last two years, but in actuality, it grew astronomically.



Source: https://www.appannie.com/en/insights/market-data/app-annie-2017-retrospective/#unique-identifier

This is why I am hesitant whenever I see comments like this. A lot of the revenue estimation services analysts use are not good.

Now, it’s possible Square Enix and Namco went down in a market that was going up significantly, but the article also asks if mobile is imploding a la Pachinko, which... doesn’t really line up with the market trends.
 
Last edited:

Deleted member 2793

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,368
A bunch of analysts expected revenue to be completely stagnant or even start contracting over the last two years, but in actuality, it grew astronomically.

Source: https://www.appannie.com/en/insights/market-data/app-annie-2017-retrospective/#unique-identifier

This is why I am hesitant whenever I see comments like this. A lot of the revenue estimation services analysts use are not good.

Now, it’s possible Square Enix and Namco went down in a market that was going up significantl, but the article also asks if mobile is imploding a la Pachinko, which... doesn’t really line up with the market trends.
Oh ok, interesting that revenue goes up (is there data for unique users? I remember reading something like 80% of Japan already playing mobage, so there wasn't much room to even more growth) Will be interesting to see the results this year. I just have this impression that the top games are taking more and more of the revenue, so some companies get left behind trying to compete.
 

Andri

Member
Mar 20, 2018
3,765
Switzerland
So Labo software is the only thing that's tracked right.

as in, someone could buy a bunch of the cardboard or whatever, but that doesn't matter.



49./54. [PS4] Dynasty Warriors 9 (Koei Tecmo) {2018.02.08} - 850 / 172,007

what did DW8 do? Cause this seems pretty dang bad.
Do you mean the 10$ sticker sets they sell to customise the Labo kits ?
Would be funny if these got tracked, since they are essentialy one time use Consumables for a game(unless you are famizu, then its not for a game).

Hmm, i wonder, if Nintendo sells blind boxes with random stickers for Labo, would these be considered Lootboxes ?
 

Nirolak

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,660
Oh ok, interesting that revenue goes up (is there data for unique users? I remember reading something like 80% of Japan already playing mobage, so there wasn't much room to even more growth) Will be interesting to see the results this year. I just have this impression that the top games are taking more and more of the revenue, so some companies get left behind trying to compete.
The biggest thing is that it’s actually turned into the console industry. It’s a mix of very well established games, and the new games that break out are those with fantastic production values, well received gameplay, and excellently run services.

Two recent-ish breakout hits are BanG Dream and Princess Connect, both of which are fully voiced games with hours upon hours of acting by popular actresses, nice looking art, and very aggressive update schedules. BanG Dream is also a notably well made rhythm game (I can’t speak to Princess Connect’s gameplay as it’s not out in English).

You have a bunch of companies trying to put out new mobile games with 2014-2015 level content, game design, and production values into this market, and they keep failing, while their games that have had years of quality build up and audience investment keep succeeding.

Eventually they will figure out that they have to go really big at launch if they want new games to succeed like CyGamws does. Square Enix’s full 3D monster/character Dragon Quest card game was notably their newest (and only directly published) successful mobile game last fiscal year.

Now, it’s possible to get modest successes with less than that, but that doesn’t move the needle at a company like Square or Namco.
 
Last edited:

sfortunato

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,988
Italy
49./54. [PS4] Dynasty Warriors 9 (Koei Tecmo) {2018.02.08} - 850 / 172,007

what did DW8 do? Cause this seems pretty dang bad.
Original DW8 release on PS3 did 359.559 (Famitsu).

Did it really? I don't remember.

Amazon currently shows it at 35% off, which I would consider a good hold for a late 3DS JRPG remaster.

Radiant Historia is at 50% off for example.
It doesn't seem entered bomba bins: https://jp.camelcamelcamel.com/真・女神転生-DEEP-STRANGE-JOURNEY-3DS/product/B073Q65WNC
 
Oct 26, 2017
8,167
Are Google Trends good for predicting more mainstream sales? Nirolak

Because Labo hasn't been searched very much in America. It's near the same level recently as "Metroid" as a search term.
 

Deleted member 2793

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,368
The biggest thing is that it’s actually turned into the console industry. It’s a mix of very well established games, and the new games that break out are those with fantastic production values, well received gameplay, and excellently run services.

Two recent-ish breakout hits are BanG Dream and Princess Connect, both of which are fully voiced games with hours upon hours of acting by popular actresses, nice looking art, and very aggressive update schedules. BanG Dream is also a notably well made rhythm game (I can’t speak to Princess Connect’s gameplay as it’s not out in English).

You have a bunch of companies trying to put out new mobile games with 2014-2015 level content, game design, and production values into this market, and they keep failing, while their games that have had years of quality build up and audience investment keep succeeding.

Eventually they will figure out that they have to go really big at launch if they want new games to succeed like Colopol does.
Sure, I agree. It became very competitive. Multimedia is very important too, Bandori had an anime even before the game released and the game is actually good (not too recent tho, it's almost 1 year old :p). Princess Connect is by Cygames and production quality is insane, with many fully animated cutscenes.

While Square Enix phoned in with stuff like Toji no Miko and Dia Horizon, that have low production quality, low budget looks and bad promotion. I just don't believe these "console" companies will try to invest that much in making actual good games that fit the platform and offer new content constantly (at least for now). Bang Dream and Princess Connect are made and published by companies with mobile focus and experience, so I feel like these reports sound like SE just guessing they can't compete directly against them and it's just wanting to bank on established IPs.
 

Rainrir

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,337
Sure, I agree. It became very competitive. Multimedia is very important too, Bandori had an anime even before the game released and the game is actually good (not too recent tho, it's almost 1 year old :p). Princess Connect is by Cygames and production quality is insane, with many fully animated cutscenes.

While Square Enix phoned in with stuff like Toji no Miko and Dia Horizon, that have low production quality, low budget looks and bad promotion. I just don't believe these "console" companies will try to invest that much in making actual good games that fit the platform and offer new content constantly (at least for now). Bang Dream and Princess Connect are made and published by companies with mobile focus and experience, so I feel like these reports sound like SE just guessing they can't compete directly against them and it's just wanting to bank on established IPs.
The biggest thing is that it’s actually turned into the console industry. It’s a mix of very well established games, and the new games that break out are those with fantastic production values, well received gameplay, and excellently run services.

Two recent-ish breakout hits are BanG Dream and Princess Connect, both of which are fully voiced games with hours upon hours of acting by popular actresses, nice looking art, and very aggressive update schedules. BanG Dream is also a notably well made rhythm game (I can’t speak to Princess Connect’s gameplay as it’s not out in English).

You have a bunch of companies trying to put out new mobile games with 2014-2015 level content, game design, and production values into this market, and they keep failing, while their games that have had years of quality build up and audience investment keep succeeding.

Eventually they will figure out that they have to go really big at launch if they want new games to succeed like Colopol does. Square Enix’s full 3D monster/character Dragon Quest card game was notably their newest (and only directly published) successful mobile game last fiscal year.

Now, it’s possible to get modest successes with less than that, but that doesn’t move the needle at a company like Square or Namco.
Its a matter of specialization.

When you have to spend money on AAA and Big mobile, you will find yourself stretched thin in terms of resources. Remember that the biggest western tradition game companies with a big mobile arm generally PURCHASED their mobile arms and those are essentially run in parallel with minimal crossover and are very specialized. In Japan, it is not the case.

You either go one way or another. This is the basic law of economics, companies specialize at what they do well. and drop what they do not over time. Rarely will you see big companies that do a little of everything do it well.

This is why I always felt that Japanese game companies will have to choose between the two markets, being neither here nor there will not result in success anywhere, This is not an ideal world, you can't have it both ways. Frankly speaking, I think mobile is the way to go for Japan, as it isn't that heavily outclassed on mobile like they are on consoles yet (but the competition is closing in fast)..
 
Last edited:

Nirolak

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,660
Are Google Trends good for predicting more mainstream sales? Nirolak

Because Labo hasn't been searched very much in America. It's near the same level recently as "Metroid" as a search term.
I have seen game marketing specialists say it is, though I think you want to use the categories tied to the products instead of just the search terms themselves.

That said, LABO doesn’t strike me as a product that’s likely to behave like your standard console game, regardless of if it fails or succeeds.
 

Rainrir

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,337
I have seen game marketing specialists say it is, though I think you want to use the categories tied to the products instead of just the search terms themselves.

That said, LABO doesn’t strike me as a product that’s likely to behave like your standard console game, regardless of if it fails or succeeds.
It will have a toy's sales cycle. If it is a hit you probably will see it happen in the holidays (summer or winter).

Also, the process to get educational institutions on board is a slow ass process and we might not even see it happen within the first year, It heavily depends on whether Nintendo has prepared a fleet of sales reps to market this to educators. I wonder how does NPD track such types of direct sales MatPiscatella ..
 

Nirolak

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,660
So if you’re a console company, generally you have a few paths to mobile success.

1.) Just buy a successful mobile publisher. See Activision Blizzard buying King for a great example of this.

2.) Hire companies that are very good and very successful at mobile development. It’s not a mistake that Square Enix’s two biggest mobile games are by Alim (Brave Frontier, hired to make Brave Exvius) and CyGames (Tons of hits, also makes Dragon Quest Monsters: Super Light). The one tricky part here is that you need to bring something worthwhile to the table for them to want to work with you, like the Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest IPs.

3.) Poach lots of high quality mobile staff to build your own mobile studios. When you want to make a new top tier AAA studio, you don’t start by taking a bunch of people who got pushed out of mobile development and put them in charge, but many Japanese console publishers will take staff who can no longer compete in the console space and put them on mobile, then get surprised when their games fail.

4.) You can try slowly building up mobile experience with new and converted staff, but you have to understand that the teams will often have lots of failures and modest successes before they get experienced enough to make a hit. This tends to be a long term play. That said, there are exceptions, like IntSys and Tri-Ace actually getting notable success pretty early. However, no one should go into this strategy expecting that.
 

Rainrir

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,337
So if you’re a console company, generally you have a few paths to mobile success.

1.) Just buy a successful mobile publisher. See Activision Blizzard buying King for a great example of this.

2.) Hire companies that are very good and very successful at mobile development. It’s not a mistake that Square Enix’s two biggest mobile games are by Alim (Brave Frontier, hired to make Brave Exvius) and CyGames (Tons of hits, also makes Dragon Quest Monsters: Super Light). The one tricky part here is that you need to bring something worthwhile to the table for them to want to work with you, like the Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest IPs.

3.) Poach lots of high quality mobile staff to build your own mobile studios. When you want to make a new top tier AAA studio, you don’t start by taking a bunch of people who got pushed out of mobile development and put them in charge, but many Japanese console publishers will take staff who can no longer compete in the console space and put them on mobile, then get surprised when their games fail.

4.) You can try slowly building up mobile experience with new and converted staff, but you have to understand that the teams will often have lots of failures and modest successes before they get experienced enough to make a hit. This tends to be a long term play. That said, there are exceptions, like IntSys and Tri-Ace actually getting notable success pretty early. However, no one should go into this strategy expecting that.
(2.) Sounded like what Nintendo wanted to do with DeNA to investors, but it turns out they did (4.) instead. The recent news of opening up their IPs to other mobile developers feel more like (2.). It remains to be seen if anyone will bite though, given the reputation of Nintendo for being protective of their IP. As far as I know, Bamco has been doing (2.) forever.

The negative example of (3.) is basically Forwardwork's strategy, which frankly I don't think will work. A bunch of has-beens that couldn't get games greenlighted for almost all of the PS3 ERA will not be able to break into a market of mobile games. Sometimes, old thinking about game design actively works against making a successful mobile product..just look at Capcom with BOF6.

Frankly, a lot of Japanese companies are doing the negative version of(3.) and (4.) which I think is a massive misstep. The thinking and skills needed for mobile and console success are vastly different, and unless the company is willing to burn "ÏP power" and money and time to do it...it is basically not going to work. IIRC Konami is another example where most of their mobile games are done interally...
 

Oregano

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,947
I think one of the issues mobile developers will face with rising expectations is the difficulties in producing a constant stream of content. It notably held back Mobius FF.
 

Deleted member 2793

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,368
(2.) Sounded like what Nintendo wanted to do with DeNA to investors, but it turns out they did (4.) instead. The recent news of opening up their IPs to other mobile developers feel more like (2.). It remains to be seen if anyone will bite though, given the reputation of Nintendo for being protective of their IP.

The negative example of (3.) is basically Forwardwork's strategy, which frankly I don't think will work. A bunch of has-beens that couldn't get games greenlighted for almost all of the PS3 ERA will not be able to break into a market of mobile games. Sometimes, old thinking about game design actively works against making a successful mobile product..just look at Capcom with BOF6.

Frankly, a lot of Japanese companies are doing the negative version of(3.) and (4.) which I think is a massive misstep. The thinking and skills needed for mobile and console success are vastly different, and unless the company is willing to burn "ÏP power" and money and time to do it...it is basically not going to work.
ForwardWorks whole strategy seems to be trying to appeal to nostalgia with old IPs and old devs. I think their focus on using small PS IPs is still bad, should just try to appeal to new players making new IPs with new devs (not like SoraUmi).
 

Nirolak

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,660
(2.) Sounded like what Nintendo wanted to do with DeNA to investors, but it turns out they did (4.) instead. The recent news of opening up their IPs to other mobile developers feel more like (2.). It remains to be seen if anyone will bite though, given the reputation of Nintendo for being protective of their IP. As far as I know, Bamco has been doing (2.) forever.

The negative example of (3.) is basically Forwardwork's strategy, which frankly I don't think will work. A bunch of has-beens that couldn't get games greenlighted for almost all of the PS3 ERA will not be able to break into a market of mobile games. Sometimes, old thinking about game design actively works against making a successful mobile product..just look at Capcom with BOF6.

Frankly, a lot of Japanese companies are doing the negative version of(3.) and (4.) which I think is a massive misstep. The thinking and skills needed for mobile and console success are vastly different, and unless the company is willing to burn "ÏP power" and money and time to do it...it is basically not going to work. IIRC Konami is another example where most of their mobile games are done interally...
Did ForwardWorks actually poach mobile staff? I thought it was just run by SCEJ people who Sony wanted to stop paying to make unsuccessful console games, which is closer to 4.

I generally agree with basically everything you said, but one note I would like to make is that I think GaaS experts in the console/PC space are actually reasonanly well suited to mobile (see Fortnite, Hearthstone, and Roblox), but that extremely few Japanese console publishers have successful, Japanese developed GaaS games on consoles/PC.
 

Nirolak

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,660
For ForwardWorks, their only realistic stab so far seems to be Wild Arms, because Wright Flyer is actually a repeatedly successful mobile developer, who is also GREE’s star subsidiary. The old Wild Arms staff are handling the IP side moreso (think story, world, that kind of stuff), as far as I can tell.

Mind, their successes tend to peak more in the 10-30 range than the top 10.
 

Rainrir

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,337
Did ForwardWorks actually poach mobile staff? I thought it was just run by SCEJ people who Sony wanted to stop paying to make unsuccessful console games, which is closer to 4.

I generally agree with basically everything you said, but one note I would like to make is that I think GaaS experts in the console/PC space are actually reasonanly well suited to mobile (see Fortnite, Hearthstone, and Roblox), but that extremely few Japanese console publishers have successful, Japanese developed GaaS games on consoles/PC.
Well, I was more talking about the other example in point 3, of putting old/obsolete console staff on mobile games and expecting them to make something worthwhile (which is the "negative example" ). Forwardworks is made up of all these devs who can't make it in consoles. As you said Wrghtflyer might make something good out of WA, but we shall see how much control he old WA devs have over design (they can screw it up easily)..

(.4) is more like getting staff who actually made games that sell on consoles, a big example will be Nintendo (IS, Animal Crossing team, Miyamoto), and getting them to make mobile games. The relative success/failure of the games speak for themselves. Frankly, even if Nintendo has the money to burn, the IP damage for a blotched mobile game is incalculable and sometimes invisible until you launch another mobile game (I am thinking ACPC mostly, though FEH shows some signs of it as well...Mario is just the wrong business model...).

As for studying GaaS, half of SE staff stated PUBG as their most influential game of the year 2017 in this years Famitsu wrap-up. I believe internally SE is trying to figure out what made PUBG work and try to incorporate it into their future games. I mean Japanese game devs don't actually have time to play much games going by what we know of their work habits...so this many SE devs citing it must be they spent "work time" with it
 
Last edited:

Nirolak

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,660
Well, I was more talking about the other example in point 3, of putting old/obsolete console staff on mobile games and expecting them to make something worthwhile (which is the "negative example" ). Forwardworks is made up of all these devs who can't make it in consoles.

(.4) is more like getting staff who actually made games that sell on consoles, a big example will be Nintendo (IS, Animal Crossing team, Miyamoto), and getting them to make mobile games. The relative success/failure of the games speak for themselves.

As for studying GaaS, half of SE staff stated PUBG as their most influential game of the year 2017 in this years Famitsu wrap-up. I believe internally SE is trying to figure out what made PUBG work and try to incorporate it into their future games. I mean Japanese game devs don't actually have time to play much games going by what we know of their work habits.
Oh, yes. I don’t disagree there. They’re definitely making all the dumb rookie mistakes with ForwardWorks.

As for Square Enix, they definitely are really focused on multiplayer and services with their upcoming games, even for console games from Japan. They just haven’t gotten through all the games they announced 2-5 years ago yet, so I think some people just assume this only applies to their Western studios. I suspect either this or next year will be very enlightening on that front.
 

Oregano

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,947
Oh, yes. I don’t disagree there. They’re definitely making all the dumb rookie mistakes with ForwardWorks.

As for Square Enix, they definitely are really focused on multiplayer and services with their upcoming games, even for console games from Japan. They just haven’t gotten through all the games they announced 2-5 years ago yet, so I think some people just assume this only applies to their Western studios. I suspect either this or next year will be very enlightening on that front.
If they give me a GaaS Crystal Chronicles game for Switch I will buy all the DLC/Microtransactions.(I actually paid for some MLaaK & MlaaDL DLC back in the day)