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fiendcode

Member
Oct 26, 2017
24,908
I already mentioned collaborating with 3rd party. The thing is, if you are a 3rd party, do you want to put your game on PS4, Switch, Xbox, PC and own the IP, or do you want to make a PS4 exclusive for Sony? PC and Switch are fast growing markets for Japanese games, what fool would abandon them now?
Hideo Kojima and Tetsuya Mizuguchi are those fools evidently. Already sort of didn't work out for the latter so hopefully Tetris Effect gets ported around asap.
 

Celine

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,030
I mean, GT has limited brand power anymore because Polyphony is terrible at making games in a reasonable timeframe.
GT is a franchise whose success was built on the premises of licensing and realism fidelity.
Nintendo would never do that because they have realized a long time ago that those factors aren't good for their business in the long period.
 

Hero

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,732
But what are those different factors? A new Ape Escape would be quality. It has cute mascots. It probably would fail.

Like, take the list from Vinnk. Imagine Sony or 3rd parties doing sequels to those games. Imagine games with the same Japanese quirkiness and general creativity and quality being made and thrown onto todays Japan by Sony. Now imagine (and this is the easiest part to imagine) most if not all of them doing fucking nothing in terms of sales.

What did the people involved in making and selling these games do wrong? How come Japanese developers making uniquely Japanese games for Japanese people can't crack the code? You've got people in this thread going on about how Sony abandoned the Japanese market but really, all they did was cut losses in a market that basically abandoned a large part of its own industry first.

This is ignoring a lot of the history of what Sony has done as a platform owner and trying to put the blame on anyone but them is disingenuous.
 

Deleted member 2791

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
19,054
But what are those different factors? A new Ape Escape would be quality. It has cute mascots. It probably would fail.

Like, take the list from Vinnk. Imagine Sony or 3rd parties doing sequels to those games. Imagine games with the same Japanese quirkiness and general creativity and quality being made and thrown onto todays Japan by Sony. Now imagine (and this is the easiest part to imagine) most if not all of them doing fucking nothing in terms of sales.

What did the people involved in making and selling these games do wrong? How come Japanese developers making uniquely Japanese games for Japanese people can't crack the code? You've got people in this thread going on about how Sony abandoned the Japanese market but really, all they did was cut losses in a market that basically abandoned a large part of its own industry first.

See, the issue here is that you equal "cute mascots" to "sell" because you think that Kirby is just a cute mascot and that it's the only selling factor of the Kirby IP.

Kirby is an IP that was developed for decades, and slowly grew up as one of the most recognizable faces for young kids when it comes to video games. Every child knows Kirby, most of them played a Kirby game at least once and immediately knows what it's about. That's why all Kirby games sell well: people know that it's good value for children, that they know the characters & universe and that they'll instantly feel at home. Ape Escape didn't got a new game since what, the PS2 ? Of course releasing a new one out of the blue with no further ambition or context setting would make it fail, despite its quality. Sony cultivated its PS4 audience to mature games (MHW, Resident Evil, God of War etc.) and not the kind of IPs it had a lot during PS1/PS2 eras. It's entirely Sony's fault that Ape Escape would fail today, not the japanese audience. This right here is the big difference between Nintendo and Sony.

And the same would apply in the reverse sense. Imagine that Nintendo was to release a world war first person shooter exclusively on Switch. Do you think it'd sell as well as CoD: WWII did on PS4 ? It's very easy to imagine that it'd bomb for the same reason a cutesy platform would fail on PS4. And again, it'd be Nintendo's fault, and not the audience's one.
 

Lite_Agent

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,572
Somewhere. I think.
Retailers were very confident for NSMBUDX and it paid off, far better sales and shipment from what pre-orders indicated.

It would show Super Mario Party legs if it was released in December but apparently Nintendo wanted a big title for this quarter.

Definitely for the best, since they apparently don't have anything until Yoshi in late March. Suddenly, January release makes a lot more sense.

It should be noted that Xbox is pretty much a Forza machine in Japan. That's the entire reason anyone who's not on a military base gets one here.

Reminds me of Kamiya ranting about Microsoft delisting some Forza games, a couple of days ago. It was pretty funny, because in-between English tweets in full caps asking for those game to be re-listed, you had plenty of tweets like that one:




Do we know the western date for DQB 2?

Not announced yet. Only mentioned in Nintendo's release planning so far.
 

Ganondolf

Member
Jan 5, 2018
1,052
Why should it sell more on the Switch?
This is the first Tales release on it while the PS4 has gotten way more so the fanbase should already be on there

Other regions has Tales selling better on Switch and Japan is heavy portable users as the charts show which makes it weird that the PS4 version is selling more in japan (would not be surprising in another country). Like others have said it could also be related to the stock allocation/available supply.
 

Marukoban

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
2,298
Can't believe some people here suggest everyone aside from Nintendo should just not consider Japan market when developing games lol.
Building audience takes time and it's not instant.
Sony has literally done fuck all for Japanese market for the last 10 years.
Do you expect anything they do to just suddenly gain mass audience's attention?
 

wrowa

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,372
Other regions has Tales selling better on Switch and Japan is heavy portable users as the charts show which makes it weird that the PS4 version is selling more in japan (would not be surprising in another country). Like others have said it could also be related to the stock allocation/available supply.
Look at the history of Tales sales in Japan. It's always been a series associated with PlayStation over there and it's where it sells best. Even the DS games couldn't compete with what e.g. Xillia sold on PS3.
 

zroid

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
5,785
Canada
Famitsu Sales: Week 2, 2019 (Jan 07 - Jan 13)

03./00. [PS4] Tales of Vesperia: Definitive Edition # <RPG> (Bandai Namco Games) {2019.01.11} (¥5.700) - 38.076 / NEW <80-100%>
04./00. [NSW] Tales of Vesperia: Definitive Edition # <RPG> (Bandai Namco Games) {2019.01.11} (¥5.700) - 25.310 / NEW <80-100%>


Based on this, even if Switch version sold through 80% and PS4 version 100%, there would still have been a greater supply for PS4. So even in the most extreme scenario there is obviously a disparity in supply between the two versions. I would imagine that this ratio will not change much because Switch games cost more to manufacture, but maybe the difference would be made up in digital sales (again probably not, since Sony typically has a higher share of digital sales).
 

Seiez

Member
Oct 29, 2017
409
I think people really underestimate how poor managed the Sony ips were up until the ps4. And i think it only changed because developing new installments takes more time.

If sony saw success with a game they had new games the following year. Them creating new franchises wasn't a virtue but a necessity because the franchises couldn't survive a single 1,5 console generations.

As much I would like a revival for some of the ps1/2 franchises, I don't really think that they would see success. At least not on the merit of being an old ip. If they would invest big dollars than it is probably better to try and establish a new ip.

It is really sad that gravity rush failed, because it was decently budgeted and showed commitment (but was killed by the release window)
 

casiopao

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
5,044
Saying that Mario Tennis Ace or Kirby Star Allies is not worthy its sales is one of worst deflection i have ever see.

Is there any arcadey high budget Tennis game in the market? Nope. It have great graphics, great core gameplay and some nice post game support even though it is barebones in the whole package. That alone would have sold the whole game nicely. And this is not yet talking about the brand power.

The same can be said about Kirby. The difference is Kirby had even better post game support. Game wont have good legs if WoM is not good.

Like mario tennis have more or less dried in its legs just like ARMS as it WoM and content is considered barren and not enough.

Sony losing jp market is not because jp market leave them. It is because they shift their market all in for the west and they see japan and second tier nation and give second tier support there. They even use excuses that mobile market is the reason why Vita flop lol. Not the fact that they give such a half ass support.
 

鬼作.

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
394
See, the issue here is that you equal "cute mascots" to "sell" because you think that Kirby is just a cute mascot and that it's the only selling factor of the Kirby IP.

Kirby is an IP that was developed for decades, and slowly grew up as one of the most recognizable faces for young kids when it comes to video games. Every child knows Kirby, most of them played a Kirby game at least once and immediately knows what it's about. That's why all Kirby games sell well: people know that it's good value for children, that they know the characters & universe and that they'll instantly feel at home. Ape Escape didn't got a new game since what, the PS2 ? Of course releasing a new one out of the blue with no further ambition or context setting would make it fail, despite its quality. Sony cultivated its PS4 audience to mature games (MHW, Resident Evil, God of War etc.) and not the kind of IPs it had a lot during PS1/PS2 eras. It's entirely Sony's fault that Ape Escape would fail today, not the japanese audience. This right here is the big difference between Nintendo and Sony.

And the same would apply in the reverse sense. Imagine that Nintendo was to release a world war first person shooter exclusively on Switch. Do you think it'd sell as well as CoD: WWII did on PS4 ? It's very easy to imagine that it'd bomb for the same reason a cutesy platform would fail on PS4. And again, it'd be Nintendo's fault, and not the audience's one.
Yes exactly, brand power. I'm not equating "cute mascots" to selling power, all things being equal -and in case of many Kirby games all things can easily be better in competing games-, brand power is going to be the thing that catapults a servicable platformer into selling a fuckton of copies. Which brings me back to that list of Sony games and the argument that if they went back to those glory days where they released all of those quirky Japanese games that never had brand power in the first place, they'd be in a better position in Japan. They can be good games with uniquely Japanese sensibilities, that's not going to be enough and there is more than a decade of declining Japanese third party to prove it. The entire Japanese gaming market is basically being propped up by Nintendo brand power.

And instead of thinking "well, that is kind of weird and unhealthy", the conclusion of a lot of people in this thread is "they are good games, of course they sell 300% more than other good games and if Sony would go back to being a Japanese company producing more games like Africa and Tokyo Jungle they would be in a way better position!" Come on.
 

Gotdatmoney

Member
Oct 28, 2017
14,487
You've got people in this thread going on about how Sony abandoned the Japanese market but really, all they did was cut losses in a market that basically abandoned a large part of its own industry first.

The major thing you are ignoring is that PS consolew were by far the market leader and the destination for big budget Japanese development and then Sony released the PS3 which was a fucking disaster for 3 years. The PS3 being such a failure for 3 years in addition to exponentially higher development costs caused Japanese publishers to adopt other platforms. The Wii, DS and PSP all saw support rhat you would traditionally have gotten on the PS3.

A lot of the massive franchise declines saw in Japan can be directly related back to the PS2 -> PS3 transition. Mainline DQ jumped to the DS and then Wii. Monster Hunter went from PS2 to Wii due to huge development costs. KH saw major entries on handhelds. Musuo was down significantly across the board. Stuff like Ace Combat, Star Ocean and Tales of literally launched 360 exclusive because the PSs was so bad, difficult to develop for and a year late to the market that developers needed HD experience immediately and made those strategic choices. Etc etc. The PS3 sold like 10m units ball park and a lot of that was later in its life when a lot of the damage had already been done.

Sony still did release some of those Japanese focused titles in the PS3 era but they did move their focus out of Japan for the PS4 (which was the correct call) to focus more on the West. But to say it was not Sony who directly created the situation the PS ecosystem is in is entirely untrue. Sony released an entirely shit product that managed to crawl its way to respectable numbers only because of publishers stuck with it and weathered big declines. The market did not disappear without reason.
 

Kerotan

Banned
Oct 31, 2018
3,951
Can't believe some people here suggest everyone aside from Nintendo should just not consider Japan market when developing games lol.
Building audience takes time and it's not instant.
Sony has literally done fuck all for Japanese market for the last 10 years.
Do you expect anything they do to just suddenly gain mass audience's attention?
So Sony has done fuck all for the Japanese Market in 10 years yet the PS3 sells 10m and PS4 probably will too. Not bad performance for those consoles considering.

I seen that but if they were to fund a big budget Fate game similar to Gran Blue I couldn't see them releasing it on Switch. Maybe timed exclusive but definitely not at launch if at all.
 

Deleted member 2791

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
19,054
Yes exactly, brand power. I'm not equating "cute mascots" to selling power, all things being equal -and in case of many Kirby games all things can easily be better in competing games-, brand power is going to be the thing that catapults a servicable platformer into selling a fuckton of copies. Which brings me back to that list of Sony games and the argument that if they went back to those glory days where they released all of those quirky Japanese games that never had brand power in the first place, they'd be in a better position in Japan. They can be good games with uniquely Japanese sensibilities, that's not going to be enough and there is more than a decade of declining Japanese third party to prove it. The entire Japanese gaming market is basically being propped up by Nintendo brand power.

And instead of thinking "well, that is kind of weird and unhealthy", the conclusion of a lot of people in this thread is "they are good games, of course they sell 300% more than other good games and if Sony would go back to being a Japanese company producing more games like Africa and Tokyo Jungle they would be in a way better position!" Come on.

You're making it sounds like it's not Sony's fault that they are in this position. It absolutely is, and what some people in this thread may want is that they go back to working on the recognition of some of their brands that they feel have been abandoned, like those they had on PS1/PS2. Like they tried to do with Ratchet & Clank, or how Activision is doing with Crash or Spyro. It's never just a matter of being a quality game to succeed in any country since the beginning of the video game industry 40 years ago.

I seen that but if they were to fund a big budget Fate game similar to Gran Blue I couldn't see them releasing it on Switch. Maybe timed exclusive but definitely not at launch if at all.

Sony Music is not related one second to Playstation. If they wanted to make a game exclusive to a certain non-playstation platform, they could. Nothing would stop them. It's like comparing Microsoft and Ubisoft: two completely different sides.
 

Refyref

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,025
It's not certain that Sony music would make the game. I couldn't see Sony assisting the Switch.
Sony Music Entertainment Japan has nothing to do with Sony Interactive Entertainment, other than being owned by the same parent company. They constantly work with companies PlayStation doesn't.
 

ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
61,987
GT is a franchise whose success was built on the premises of licensing and realism fidelity.
Nintendo would never do that because they have realized a long time ago that those factors aren't good for their business in the long period.
So what you're saying is, Nintendo should fund an Auto Modellista 2
220px-Auto_Modellista_Coverart.png

It's not certain that Sony music would make the game. I couldn't see Sony assisting the Switch.
SIE (playstation) is not Sony Music. Sony Music already publishes for Switch
 

Celine

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,030
Yes exactly, brand power. I'm not equating "cute mascots" to selling power, all things being equal -and in case of many Kirby games all things can easily be better in competing games-, brand power is going to be the thing that catapults a servicable platformer into selling a fuckton of copies. Which brings me back to that list of Sony games and the argument that if they went back to those glory days where they released all of those quirky Japanese games that never had brand power in the first place, they'd be in a better position in Japan. They can be good games with uniquely Japanese sensibilities, that's not going to be enough and there is more than a decade of declining Japanese third party to prove it. The entire Japanese gaming market is basically being propped up by Nintendo brand power.

And instead of thinking "well, that is kind of weird and unhealthy", the conclusion of a lot of people in this thread is "they are good games, of course they sell 300% more than other good games and if Sony would go back to being a Japanese company producing more games like Africa and Tokyo Jungle they would be in a way better position!" Come on.
It's brand power and fun game ideas.

If Sony release a Smash clone or Mario Kart clone or Splatoon clone or Animal Crossing clone etc. they won't have any chance to match Nintendo games sales, the reason is that Nintendo own the genre king*.

If Sony, instead of being merely the distributor of Minecraft on PlayStation consoles, had actually developed Minecraft and owned the game franchise I can guarantee you that the game would have still sold a lot in Japan (if not better than what it did on Sony consoles) and Sony would have had a new huge IP for themselves in Japan.

Ultimately I have little confidence Sony in-house developers have the skills to create a big hit for the japanese market.

* also note that Nintendo drive its platform toward those kind of games while PS4 is driven by big western franchises like COD, Assasin's Creed, Fifa, RDR2 which have very little in common.
 
Last edited:

Lite_Agent

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,572
Somewhere. I think.
There is still room for a little surprise in late February IMO (WiiU port).

Had there been a Direct by now, yeah, but I think it's too late for a February game announcement. It would have to be extremely small in scale, and wouldn't make much of a difference sales-wise.

Or a localization ? DQB2 ?

It's already January 17th, there's 1 month and 11 days left until March already. No way DQB2 is going to be announced + released in such a short time frame imo.
 

MoonFrog

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,969
The major thing you are ignoring is that PS consolew were by far the market leader and the destination for big budget Japanese development and then Sony released the PS3 which was a fucking disaster for 3 years. The PS3 being such a failure for 3 years in addition to exponentially higher development costs caused Japanese publishers to adopt other platforms. The Wii, DS and PSP all saw support rhat you would traditionally have gotten on the PS3.

A lot of the massive franchise declines saw in Japan can be directly related back to the PS2 -> PS3 transition. Mainline DQ jumped to the DS and then Wii. Monster Hunter went from PS2 to Wii due to huge development costs. KH saw major entries on handhelds. Musuo was down significantly across the board. Stuff like Ace Combat, Star Ocean and Tales of literally launched 360 exclusive because the PSs was so bad, difficult to develop for and a year late to the market that developers needed HD experience immediately and made those strategic choices. Etc etc. The PS3 sold like 10m units ball park and a lot of that was later in its life when a lot of the damage had already been done.

Sony still did release some of those Japanese focused titles in the PS3 era but they did move their focus out of Japan for the PS4 (which was the correct call) to focus more on the West. But to say it was not Sony who directly created the situation the PS ecosystem is in is entirely untrue. Sony released an entirely shit product that managed to crawl its way to respectable numbers only because of publishers stuck with it and weathered big declines. The market did not disappear without reason.
Yeah, generally whenever you are taking agency from players, particularly big players, you are removing much of the picture. Which is why the whole fatalism about the Japanese console market always strikes me as at least partially wrong-headed.
 

casiopao

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
5,044
Yes exactly, brand power. I'm not equating "cute mascots" to selling power, all things being equal -and in case of many Kirby games all things can easily be better in competing games-, brand power is going to be the thing that catapults a servicable platformer into selling a fuckton of copies. Which brings me back to that list of Sony games and the argument that if they went back to those glory days where they released all of those quirky Japanese games that never had brand power in the first place, they'd be in a better position in Japan. They can be good games with uniquely Japanese sensibilities, that's not going to be enough and there is more than a decade of declining Japanese third party to prove it. The entire Japanese gaming market is basically being propped up by Nintendo brand power.

And instead of thinking "well, that is kind of weird and unhealthy", the conclusion of a lot of people in this thread is "they are good games, of course they sell 300% more than other good games and if Sony would go back to being a Japanese company producing more games like Africa and Tokyo Jungle they would be in a way better position!" Come on.

Again reducing all those Nintendo IP success simply thanks to brand power alone is just stupid or plain ignorant.

Nintendo actually put huge effort in growing its brand by keep providing great core experience+steady release to maintain the brand relevancy.

Sony did not. Grand Turismo is in such rot position because Sony give polipony too much power which lead to almost nothing been done for such a long time and of course the brand is more or less is the shadow of its former self.

The same happen with Minna no Golf, etc.

Sony performance in japan is what it deserved after ps3, psv and now ps4. If u see their output during that era, u know why the hell they did badly in Japan. If u put B effort then u get repayed with B result. Simple as that.
 

klanar

Member
Jun 9, 2018
398
There is still room for a little surprise in late February IMO (WiiU port).
It's possible that they had a fiscal goal with smash, pokemon, smp and nsmbud 4 months straight with 3 of them during holidays. They probably felt that it was enough to hit fiscal target, and start fresh on the new fiscal year with yoshi kinda as the first title
edit: Yoshi and Fire emblem were originally supposed to be 2018 right?
 

Marukoban

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
2,298
So Sony has done fuck all for the Japanese Market in 10 years yet the PS3 sells 10m and PS4 probably will too. Not bad performance for those consoles considering.

True not a bad performance.
They basically depended on 3rd party, but sadly those 3rd party doesn't have even half the output they used to have plus there will be almost none 3rd party platform exclusive going forward.
So the future is really dire for PS5 or whatever the name of next box is.
 

Celine

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,030
Let's look at SCE million seller history in Japan (miss Minecraft on PSV).

Total shipment data in Japan (in million units):

Gran Turismo PS1 SCE 2,55
Everybody's Golf PS1 SCE 2,13
Gran Turismo 3 A -spec PS2 SCE 1,89
Gran Turismo 2 PS1 SCE 1,71
Everybody's Golf 4 PS2 SCE 1,56
Everybody's Golf 2 PS1 SCE 1,49
Parappa The Rapper PS1 SCE 1,48
Crash Bandicoot 3: Warped PS1 SCE 1,45
Everybody's Golf 3 PS2 SCE 1,39
Crash Bandicoot 2 PS1 SCE 1,33
Gran Turismo 4 PS2 SCE 1,27
Devil Dice PS1 SCE 1,12
Arc The Lad PS1 SCE 1,11
Arc The Lad II PS1 SCE 1,06
Intelligent Qube PS1 SCE 1,01
Doko Demo Issyo PS1 SCE 1,01

As you can see Sony million sellers are a bunch of new franchises on PS1 when Sony was on board of a winning train* and sequels of the more enduring success on PS2 (GT, Everybody's Golf).
Full stop (until they published the PSV version of Minecraft).

Now you can make excuses that PS3 and PS4 userbase weren't that large but Splatoon hit 1.5M on the pitiful WiiU install base.
PSP sold like a market leading PlayStation console in Japan (around 20M) and yet still nothing.

Are we really sure we should cry at the japanese consumers for not buying Sony games in masses?
Wouldn't be better to scrutinize Sony's output?

* Also games in a franchise they don't own (Crash Bandicoot).
 

Fisico

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,106
Paris
Look at the history of Tales sales in Japan. It's always been a series associated with PlayStation over there and it's where it sells best. Even the DS games couldn't compete with what e.g. Xillia sold on PS3.


It's been repeated ad nauseam but from the top 15 best selling Tales of 14 of them were released on PS home console, only Tales of Symphonia on GC made it into the top 15 in... 15th place with >300k copies sold. The PS2 late port went on to outsell it one year later nearing 400k, and its successor (Abyss) was way above 600k.

Or we can talk about Tales of Graces on Wii, one of the worst selling main title in the series barely above 200k, its PS3 late port went on to sell near 400k
Or the worst selling main episode Tales of Vesperia on 360 at 200k, PS3 late port went on to sell near 500k.
Or even maybe the two Tales released on DS, best selling hardware in Japan mind you, selling in the ~250k range and being outsold at the same time by the subseries Radiant Mythology lower budget spin-off entry on PSP (~300k)

Sure we can talk about individual case that could have been handled better here and there, but the trend is obvious and the gap monumental (7 games above 600k on PS home consoles, 12 above 400k vs a ceiling of 200-300k when they tried elsewhere on GC WII 360 and DS)

In Japan the brand is heavily associated with Sony, that could change in the future but it will take more than one multiplatform rerelease to do that.
 

ZSaberLink

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,668
Dengeki Online Sales: Week 2, 2019 (Jan 07 - Jan 13)

01./00. [NSW] New Super Mario Bros. U Deluxe (Nintendo) {2019.01.11} - 178,512 / NEW
02./01. [NSW] Super Smash Bros. Ultimate (Nintendo) {2018.12.07} - 64,261 / 2,736,743
03./00. [PS4] Tales of Vesperia: Definitive Edition (Bandai Namco Games) {2019.01.11} - 45,703 / NEW
04./00. [NSW] Tales of Vesperia: Definitive Edition (Bandai Namco Games) {2019.01.11} - 27,920 / NEW
05./02. [NSW] Super Mario Party (Nintendo) {2018.10.05} - 19,756 / 894,334
06./04. [NSW] Minecraft (Microsoft Game Studios) {2018.06.21} - 14,306 / 621,746
07./07. [NSW] Dragon Quest Builders 2 (Square Enix) {2018.12.20} - 13,353 / 194,783
08./03. [NSW] Mario Kart 8 Deluxe (Nintendo) {2017.04.28} - 12,750 / 2,002,777
09./05. [NSW] Splatoon 2 (Nintendo) {2017.07.21} - 10,863 / 2,885,976
10./09. [PS4] Dragon Quest Builders 2 (Square Enix) {2018.12.20} - 10,381 / 181,297
11./10. [NSW] Go Vacation (Bandai Namco Games) {2018.12.27} - 8,431 / 48,754
12./06. [NSW] Pokemon: Let's Go, Pikachu! (Pokemon Co.) {2018.11.16} - 8,150 / 748,846
13./08. [NSW] Pokemon: Let's Go, Eevee! (Pokemon Co.) {2018.11.16} - 6,975 / 597,186
14./13. [NSW] The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild (Nintendo) {2017.03.03} - 6,481 / 932,842
15./11. [PS4] Judgment (Sega) {2018.12.13} - 6,030 / 241,904
16./19. [PS4] Call of Duty: Black Ops IIII (Sony Interactive Entertainment) {2018.10.12} - 4,063 / 511,025
17./12. [NSW] Taiko no Tatsujin: Drum 'n' Fun! (Bandai Namco Games) {2018.07.19} - 3,872 / 305,702
18./16. [PS4] God Eater 3 (Bandai Namco Games) {2018.12.13} - 3,739 / 199,795
19./14. [NSW] Super Mario Odyssey (Nintendo) {2017.10.27} - 3,269 / 1,799,559
20./15. [NSW] Kirby Star Allies (Nintendo) {2018.03.16} - 2,850 / 717,265
21./35. [PS4] Kingdom Hearts HD I.5 + II.5 ReMIX (Square Enix) {2017.03.09} - 2,663 / 235,527
22./27. [NSW] Fit Boxing (Imagineer) {2018.12.20} - 2,628 / 11,924
23./39. [NSW] Diablo III: Eternal Collection (Blizzard Entertainment) {2018.12.27} - 2,411 / 15,234
24./20. [3DS] Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story + Bowser Jr.'s Journey (Nintendo) {2018.12.27} - 2,269 / 21,058
25./32. [PS4] Onimusha: Warlords (Capcom) {2018.12.20} - 2,063 / 33,544
26./23. [PS4] Battlefield V (Electronic Arts) {2018.11.20} - 2,019 / 161,854
27./18. [NSW] Mario Tennis Aces (Nintendo) {2018.06.22} - 1,872 / 407,682
28./28. [NSW] Katamari Damacy Reroll (Bandai Namco Games) {2018.12.20} - 1,727 / 22,424
29./22. [NSW] Dragon Ball FighterZ (Bandai Namco Games) {2018.09.27} - 1,581 / 78,201
30./25. [NSW] FIFA 19 (Electronic Arts) {2018.09.28} - 1,511 / 65,989
31./58. [PS4] Grand Theft Auto V (Take-Two Interactive Japan) {2018.12.06} - 1,483 / 9,479
32./37. [NSW] Super Run For Money Tousouchuu & Super Battle For Money Sentouchuu Double Pack (Bandai Namco Games) {2018.11.29} - 1,440 / 27,800
33./48. [PS4] Dead by Daylight (3goo) {2018.11.29} - 1,427 / 21,239
34./30. [NSW] Fortnite (Warner Entertainment Japan) {2018.12.13} - 1,422 / 16,013
35./42. [PS4] Minecraft: Playstation 4 Edition (Sony Interactive Entertainment) {2015.12.03} - 1,320 / 356,378
36./54. [3DS] Animal Crossing: New Leaf - Welcome amiibo (Nintendo) {2016.11.23} - 1,244 / 406,022
37./24. [NSW] Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker (Nintendo) {2018.07.13} - 1,233 / 176,526
38./26. [3DS] Luigi's Mansion (Nintendo) {2018.11.08} - 1,117 / 88,817
39./46. [3DS] Pokemon Ultra Moon (Pokemon Co.) {2017.11.17} - 1,078 / 865,166
40./21. [PS4] Winning Eleven 2019 (Konami) {2018.08.30} - 1,067 / 159,389
41./68. [PS4] Red Dead Redemption II (Take-Two Interactive Japan) {2018.10.26} - 1,060 / 211,897
42./59. [PS4] Monster Hunter: World [Best Price] (Capcom) {2018.08.02} - 1,040 / 23,059
43./40. [3DS] Pokemon Ultra Sun (Pokemon Co.) {2017.11.17} - 994 / 893,353
44./83. [PS4] Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six: Siege - Advanced Edition (Ubisoft) {2018.03.01} - 908 / 86,809
45./49. [NSW] Onimusha: Warlords (Capcom) {2018.12.20} - 906 / 17,620
46./56. [PS4] Just Cause 4 (Square Enix) {2018.12.06} - 833 / 32,611
47./38. [NSW] Billion Road (Bandai Namco Games) {2018.11.29} - 819 / 15,475
48./104. [PS4] Kingdom Hearts HD II.8 Final Chapter Prologue (Square Enix) {2017.01.12} - 800 / 210,602
49./31. [NSW] Pro Baseball Famista Evolution (Bandai Namco Games) {2018.08.02} - 744 / 125,835
50./43. [NSW] Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze (Nintendo) {2018.05.03} - 735 / 238,218

SOFTWARE
Code:
--------------------------------------------------------
| Model | This Week | Week(%)  | FY 2018     | FY(%)   |
--------------------------------------------------------
| Switch| 428,393   | 73.8%    | 12,112,155  | 56.5%   |
| PS4   | 121,343   | 20.9%    | 6,604,440   | 30.8%   |
| 3DS   | 23,981    | 4.1%     | 1,927,631   | 9.0%    |
| Vita  | 5,721     | 1.0%     | 706,821     | 3.3%    |
| ETC   | 1,201     | 0.2%     | 75,523      | 0.4%    |
--------------------------------------------------------
| Total | 580,639   | 100.0%   | 21,426,570  | 100.0%  |
--------------------------------------------------------
HARDWARE
Code:
--------------------------------------------------------
| Model | This Week | Week(%)  | FY 2018     | FY(%)   |
--------------------------------------------------------
| Switch| 89,993    | 78.4%    | 3,262,283   | 66.1%   |
| PS4   | 18,098    | 15.8%    | 1,183,751   | 24.0%   |
| 3DS   | 4,755     | 4.1%     | 381,103     | 7.7%    |
| Vita  | 1,712     | 1.5%     | 101,526     | 2.1%    |
| ETC   | 168       | 0.1%     | 8,137       | 0.2%    |
--------------------------------------------------------
| Total | 114,726   | 100.0%   | 4,936,800   | 100.0%  |
--------------------------------------------------------

Dengeki Online Sales: Week 1, 2019 (Dec 31 - Jan 06)
 

鬼作.

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
394
You're making it sounds like it's not Sony's fault that they are in this position. It absolutely is, and what some people in this thread may want is that they go back to working on the recognition of some of their brands that they feel have been abandoned, like those they had on PS1/PS2. Like they tried to do with Ratchet & Clank, or how Activision is doing with Crash or Spyro. It's never just a matter of being a quality game to succeed in any country since the beginning of the video game industry 40 years ago.
I'm also one of the people that want Sony to bring back their Japanese games. I just don't understand how someone could ever make the argument that those games are somehow connected to the successs and relevancy of Playstation platforms in Japan. Like, if Sony would have continued to make Ape Escape and Alundra and Arc the Lad and Wild Arms sequels and more original games like Tokyo Jungle and Puppeteer on the Playstation 3 and 4, the Playstation 4 would now be sitting at 20 million units sold? Is that how it would work?
 

Celine

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,030
I'm also one of the people that want Sony to bring back their Japanese games. I just don't understand how someone could ever make the argument that those games are somehow connected to the successs and relevancy of Playstation platforms in Japan. Like, if Sony would have continued to make Ape Escape and Alundra and Arc the Lad and Wild Arms sequels and more original games like Tokyo Jungle and Puppeteer on the Playstation 3 and 4, the Playstation 4 would now be sitting at 20 million units sold? Is that how it would work?
If Sony has the skill to produce hits for the japanese market and did make them then yes it would have helped PS3 and PS4 overall sales.
 

KillerMan91

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,354
Let's look at SCE million seller history in Japan (miss Minecraft on PSV).

Total shipment data in Japan (in million units):

Gran Turismo PS1 SCE 2,55
Everybody's Golf PS1 SCE 2,13
Gran Turismo 3 A -spec PS2 SCE 1,89
Gran Turismo 2 PS1 SCE 1,71
Everybody's Golf 4 PS2 SCE 1,56
Everybody's Golf 2 PS1 SCE 1,49
Parappa The Rapper PS1 SCE 1,48
Crash Bandicoot 3: Warped PS1 SCE 1,45
Everybody's Golf 3 PS2 SCE 1,39
Crash Bandicoot 2 PS1 SCE 1,33
Gran Turismo 4 PS2 SCE 1,27
Devil Dice PS1 SCE 1,12
Arc The Lad PS1 SCE 1,11
Arc The Lad II PS1 SCE 1,06
Intelligent Qube PS1 SCE 1,01
Doko Demo Issyo PS1 SCE 1,01

As you can see Sony million sellers are a bunch of new franchises on PS1 when Sony was on board of a winning train* and sequels of the more enduring success on PS2 (GT, Everybody's Golf).
Full stop (until they published the PSV version of Minecraft).

Now you can make excuses that PS3 and PS4 userbase weren't that large but Splatoon hit 1.5M on the pitiful WiiU install base.
PSP sold like a market leading PlayStation console in Japan (around 20M) and yet still nothing.

Are we really sure we should cry at the japanese consumers for not buying Sony games in masses?
Wouldn't be better to scrutinize Sony's output?

* Also games in a franchise they don't own (Crash Bandicoot).

To me this shows just that Sony has done jack shit in terms of japanese first party support since PS2 days so it's not some kind of modern PS4 phenomenon.
 

Celine

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,030
To me this shows just that Sony has done jack shit in terms of japanese first party support since PS2 days so it's not some kind of modern PS4 phenomenon.
But were the PS2 days really that different?
Yes, GT and Minnagol were fresher (newer) and PS2 sold a lot better than PS3 and PS4 but take away GT and Everybody's Golf from the PS2 list and you are on the same square as PS3.
GT and Everybody's Golf sales trajectory steadily declined through time until the current point.
 

KillerMan91

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,354
But were the PS2 days really that different?
Take away GT and Everybody's Golf from the PS2 list and you are on the same square as PS3.
GT and Everybody's Golf sales trajectory steadily declined through time until the current point.

I mean that was my point. PS2 didn't have particularly strong first party lineup so it feels weird to say that with PS4 Sony has abandoned Japan when it comes to sw support when PS1 days were the last time they really had some bigger presence outside of couple heavy hitters on PS2.
 

Celine

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,030
I mean that was my point. PS2 didn't have particularly strong first party lineup so it feels weird to say that with PS4 Sony has abandoned Japan when it comes to sw support when PS1 days were the last time they really had some bigger presence outside of couple heavy hitters on PS2.
My mistake, I read "since after" instead of "since".
 

Kerotan

Banned
Oct 31, 2018
3,951
Sony Music Entertainment Japan has nothing to do with Sony Interactive Entertainment, other than being owned by the same parent company. They constantly work with companies PlayStation doesn't.
Yeah but if the gaming division decides it wants to produce a block buster similar to granblue fantasy in scope they'll get it and exclusively too. I'm just saying there's the option there if they wish.

Sony don't own spiderman but I'm pretty sure they used their leverage with the movies to get that exclusive. Speaking of, I'm about to boot up spidey for the very first time. So I'll chat to you guys later!
True not a bad performance.
They basically depended on 3rd party, but sadly those 3rd party doesn't have even half the output they used to have plus there will be almost none 3rd party platform exclusive going forward.
So the future is really dire for PS5 or whatever the name of next box is.
PS4 never really had many exclusives anyway. Most games shared with a combination of Switch/Xbox/Wii U/vita/ps3/3ds/pc anyway.

Next Gen the ps5 will be sharing games with ps4/xbox/pc/switch. I don't fear for the ps5.
 

Raguy

Member
Dec 20, 2017
311
Nintendo/Pokemon Co(>300K):
Nintendo Labo Toy-Con 01: Variety Kit - 226.845
Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze - 222.025
Mario + Rabbids: Kingdom Battle - 213.453
1 2 Switch - 144.483
Arms - 133.140
Pokken Tournament DX 118.316
Xenoblade Chronicles 2 - 64.327
Snipperclips Plus - Cut it out, together! - 57.601
Nintendo Labo Toy-Con 02: Robot Kit - 56.307
Nintendo Labo Toy-Con 03: Drive Kit - 49.564


Where is Captain Toad ?


Since Famitsu's Top 100 is out, here's a Switch-only list of LTDs up to Week 52, 2018, including games that appeared in Famitsu's mid-2018's Top 100 ranking. This ranking displays also the first week / LTD ratio for each game.*


[NSW] Bayonetta 2 <ACT> (Nintendo) {2018.02.17} (¥5.980) - 9.471 / 25.016 (37,86%)

Perhaps, you can combine Bayo 2 with Climax edition.

For example, Pokemon let's go combines all versions. ( pokeball plus edition for example )
 

fiendcode

Member
Oct 26, 2017
24,908
If Sony has the skill to produce hits for the japanese market and did make them then yes it would have helped PS3 and PS4 overall sales.
Given how ForwardWorks is faring, SIE still having that skill is an open question.

It's not certain that Sony music would make the game. I couldn't see Sony assisting the Switch.
SME definitely won't be making a AAA console game if that's what you're getting at. That said, neither will SIE outside continuing GT. ;)
 

Refyref

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,025
Yeah but if the gaming division decides it wants to produce a block buster similar to granblue fantasy in scope they'll get it and exclusively too. I'm just saying there's the option there if they wish.

Sony don't own spiderman but I'm pretty sure they used their leverage with the movies to get that exclusive. Speaking of, I'm about to boot up spidey for the very first time. So I'll chat to you guys later!
Obviously, SIE can license the IP from Type Moon and SMEJ's Aniplex and create their own high budget game with the license, as can any other company. They might even be able to do it cheaper than anyone else, due to having some relations to one of those companies. But SMEJ won't go around making high-budget exclusive just to help SIE reach their financial goals while hurting themselves.
 

ACL

Member
Nov 18, 2017
1,304
It didn't start with PS4, even PS2 showed early signs of decline of the Japan focused 1st party output. PS4 simply is when it reached it's lowest point. And you definetly can't be more obvious, than moving your headquarter away from Japan, which happened during the current PS4 generation. As more and more time passes it simply becomes more difficult to live out of the goodwill mostly generated with PS1+2 in Japan. Therefore they need to be more bullish with their Japanese support going forward.
 

Piston

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,155
But were the PS2 days really that different?
Yes, GT and Minnagol were fresher (newer) and PS2 sold a lot better than PS3 and PS4 but take away GT and Everybody's Golf from the PS2 list and you are on the same square as PS3.
GT and Everybody's Golf sales trajectory steadily declined through time until the current point.
I've never played much Gran Turismo as racing sims aren't my thing really and I haven't ever played Minna no Golf either, but have either of those franchises tried to expand their appeal significantly release to release?

I've always gotten the impression that each release retains relatively the same core and are iterative improvements graphically and content wise. I don't feel like they ever tried to expand the appeal of either franchise beyond what they originally were and failed to pace their releases to properly keep the attention of the fanbases.

Beyond those two franchises, I'm failing to come up with Sony franchises that have wide enough appeal in Japan. Arc the Lad, Ape Escape, the original Crash Trilogy, and some of Level 5's older games like Dark Cloud, White Knight Chronicles, and Rogue Galaxy all could have been franchises that got neglected or lost. Then there are a number of western franchises that put up mid-tier numbers in Japan like God of War, Uncharted, Rachet (the first few games at least), etc. But they really just haven't kept up any Japanese-based 1st party franchises very well.
 

Fisico

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,106
Paris
PS4 never really had many exclusives anyway. Most games shared with a combination of Switch/Xbox/Wii U/vita/ps3/3ds/pc anyway.

Next Gen the ps5 will be sharing games with ps4/xbox/pc/switch. I don't fear for the ps5.

PS4 mostly shared games with XB1 and PC which are non factor in Japan, it got some PSV handheld games as a bonus which almost all sold poorly.

If PS4/PS5 begin to share games with a Nintendo leading hardware it doesn't bode well for Sony hardware sales trajectory.
 

Kriegshand

Member
Oct 28, 2017
516
Retailers were very confident for NSMBUDX and it paid off, far better sales and shipment from what pre-orders indicate.
If we look at last years numbers the corresponding week was the weakest one for a long time. I can imagine that we underestimated the impact of "New Super Mario Bros. U" and that the Switch sales of this week are a classic spike.
This means we have no idea how good "normal" weeks can be this year for the switch. So the upcoming weaks are quite interesting to watch.