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cw_sasuke

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,401
I know people here are still mad for the MH betrayal and the lack of current-gen titles on Switch - but their games are selling and their longterm support will be essential down the line. The current Switch is just the first iteration of the plattform - there will be changes down the line, which will result in Capcom being able to bring more of their content over.
I'm sorry, but in comparison to other third-parties like Square Enix, Koei Tecmo or Level 5, you just can't call Capcom "one of the strongest Switch supporters".
This is a sales thread and Capcom games have sold more than KT or Level 5 games on Switch and that is what Nintendo cares about - they are making money with every Capcom sale. SE is much bigger and has more content that is able to run on Switch and they have secured Nintendo support for pretty much every title - so thats hard to compare.

Ill be here for the tune to change up really fast when Capcom shows off their upcoming Switch title and ports.
 

Charamiwa

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,056
Reminder that Koizumi himself introduced the Resident Evil segment this E3 to introduced two ports and that it ran for several minutes. Would love to hear what happened here.
 

Oregano

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,878
I'm sure Nintendo is salivating at the idea of finally getting a port of Resident Evil 2 Remake on the Switch 2 in 2025.
 
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Chris1964

Chris1964

SalesEra Genius
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,155
If RE5 and 6 turn out what are expected to be, overpriced ports with zero features added they won't have better fate even if it's the first time on a Nintendo system.
 
Oct 25, 2017
8,617
Aren't level 5 rebooting that psp horror/persona like JRPG?
Not sure if they cancelled that multimedia mech project either.

Bummer things don't look so good for them since I love Layton and fantasy life was pretty good.

Not sure about a buyout. Namco putting them on licensed anime games is probably not what the staff wants but might keep them afloat.
Issue is talent retention, not sure who are the major creative heads still working there, but I guess if things get dire enough for a buy out they could just be hired by other publishers
 
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Chris1964

Chris1964

SalesEra Genius
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,155
Someone at Nintendo was excited 5 and 6 are finally landing on a Nintendo system, don't overanalyze it.
 

Shoichi

Member
Jan 10, 2018
10,456
Salvaging a canned commercial, probably

That was honestly a weird commercial.
Live action commercial going into playing RE, going into announcing RE5 and RE6 to the platform.

It felt like it was supposed to be a commercial for RE they forgot they had footage for. Then decided "Hey, let's just use it to announce RE5 and RE6 for the platform".
 

Oregano

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,878
Isn't Monster Hunter Generations Ultimate the only Capcom game on Switch that sold well?

No, USF2 and Revelations did well relative to what they are as well.

Wait till you see the sales of Toraware No Palm though!?

Can't believe people are sleeping on Capcom's massive Switch exclusive.
 

cw_sasuke

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,401
Reminder that Koizumi himself introduced the Resident Evil segment this E3 to introduced two ports and that it ran for several minutes. Would love to hear what happened here.
Its a marathon not a sprint.
Isn't Monster Hunter Generations Ultimate the only Capcom game on Switch that sold well?
USF2, Revelation1+2 and MH Generations sold really well.
Their other titles probably also well enough to justify the ports.
 
Jan 2, 2018
10,699
How reliable is Game Data Library?
I look at all Capcom and Koei Tecmo releases, and Capcom's games don't seem to sell much more, aside from that one late MH release.
I'm referring to this:

This is a sales thread and Capcom games have sold more than KT or Level 5 games on Switch and that is what Nintendo cares about -

I'm sorry if I make a fool out of myself.
 

cw_sasuke

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,401
How reliable is Game Data Library?
I look at all Capcom and Koei Tecmo releases, and Capcom's games don't seem to sell much more, aside from that one late MH release.
I'm referring to this:

I'm sorry if I make a fool out of myself.
While this is a MC thread - when talking about general publisher support you usually take Global sales into account.
 
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Chris1964

Chris1964

SalesEra Genius
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,155
How reliable is Game Data Library?
I look at all Capcom and Koei Tecmo releases, and Capcom's games don't seem to sell much more, aside from that one late MH release.
I'm referring to this:
Capcom's support is on continued downtrend after first year. Monster Hunter inflates number of sales on system and almost everything else is budget priced.

They are one of weakest Japanese Switch supporters in 2019. Bandai Namco that is criticized heavily lately is multiple times stronger.
 
Jan 2, 2018
10,699

Oregano

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,878
Even then Capcom would be up there - MH Gen is still one of the best selling 3rdParty titles.

It's literally their only release of relevance. If you go by that logic then Capcom is really low down the totem pole on a global basis because even a publisher as Nintendo-averse as EA has FIFA.
 

Arthoneceron

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,024
Minas Gerais, Brazil
Speaking about a possible Level-5 buyout, what was Nintendo expecting when they bought Monolithsoft?

I mean, I don't remember Tetsuya Takahashi being remembered as a great developer back in the day. Competent at the best, but with a narrative focus and lack of cohesion that's impressive even for Miyamoto. Also, RPG's wasn't the main focus of mostly of Nintendo system past SNES games, and considering that the rights over the Xenosaga trilogy were with Namco and Baten Kaitos never was big in the first place, I doubt that Nintendo would like to buy the studio. Also, considering that the open-world and exploration of the studio is pretty recent, the studio wouldn't worth a penny for the bigger plans of Nintendo.

Yet it happened. I doubt that they were in a sale or something like that, but I think that if Level-5 would be bought by Nintendo, the studio would have some focus again.

Yet, Next Level Games would fit better on that, if Luigi's Mansion 3 prove itself in a success (which I honestly expect).
 

ArkhamFantasy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,550
NNK2 failing to take off in the west and YW4 failing in Japan is a pretty brutal 1-2 combo for Level 5.

What do you even do? Go to Bandai Namco and try to make a new IP i guess.
 

ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
61,987
Speaking about a possible Level-5 buyout, what was Nintendo expecting when they bought Monolithsoft?

I mean, I don't remember Tetsuya Takahashi being remembered as a great developer back in the day. Competent at the best, but with a narrative focus and lack of cohesion that's impressive even for Miyamoto. Also, RPG's wasn't the main focus of mostly of Nintendo system past SNES games, and considering that the rights over the Xenosaga trilogy were with Namco and Baten Kaitos never was big in the first place, I doubt that Nintendo would like to buy the studio. Also, considering that the open-world and exploration of the studio is pretty recent, the studio wouldn't worth a penny for the bigger plans of Nintendo.

Yet it happened. I doubt that they were in a sale or something like that, but I think that if Level-5 would be bought by Nintendo, the studio would have some focus again.

Yet, Next Level Games would fit better on that, if Luigi's Mansion 3 prove itself in a success (which I honestly expect).
assistance. remember that Nintendo wasn't actually looking to buy Monolith


Why go to Bandai Namco?

NNK2 shows they don't really offer anything to Level 5.
I believe Bamco wanted the project rather than L5 wanting it
 

Deleted member 8593

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
27,176
Time for Phil to make another trip to Japan and revive True Fantasy Live Online?
ohhh.png
 

Brodo Baggins

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,958
I mean that result is pretty bad for Level 5, but for the budget of these games is 150k in opening week really a death blow? The games don't seem all that high budget so they're probably making a decent amount at the end of the day if this hits 500k no?

Definitely an indication they need to retool and find a new franchise to milk to death though.
 

ArkhamFantasy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,550
Why go to Bandai Namco?

NNK2 shows they don't really offer anything to Level 5.

Bandai, Square Enix, Capcom, Sega, Nintendo, Sony, pick one. I just brought up Bandai because they've made two phenomenal JRPGs with them. No offense to the people who like Yokai watch, but there's a substantial drop in quality between NNK1/2 and Yokai Watch which leads me to believe that they work better with a publisher.
 

Shadoken

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,206
Its kinda unfair to compare Capcom sales to companies like Square and Bamco. Capcom is smaller than those companies on PS/XB as well right ? Unless you guys are strictly speaking on number of "new" titles and not sales.

Yeah, and after MH there is a wasteland.

But isn't this true even on PS/XB. After MH theres a huge gap to the next big title. RE and after that another big gap to the next big titles DMC,SF.
 
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Oregano

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,878
Bandai, Square Enix, Capcom, Sega, Nintendo, Sony, pick one. I just brought up Bandai because they've made two phenomenal JRPGs with them. No offense to the people who like Yokai watch, but there's a substantial drop in quality between NNK1/2 and Yokai Watch which leads me to believe that they work better with a publisher.

NNK1 was made without any involvement of a publisher though?

BN just localised it.
 

Mory Dunz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
36,398
It's a big blow for L5 but it sucks for Nintendo too. Yokai Watch and Monster Hunter were huge 3rd party pillars of the 3DS. One is gone and the other don't sell much anymore. 2 years in and the Switch is still looking for its first big 3rd party hit (besides Minecraft obviously but that's on a league of its own). And there's nothing much on the horizon.
outside of minecraft, I can't think of a potential million seller.
or even like...700k

DQ12 is all I got.
 

Kanann

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,170
SQEX has miles better team to do DQXII than what L5 has become.

But I came from who that is really hate DQ8 and 9.
 

Deleted member 8593

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
27,176
I'm sure that if L5 and Hino wanted to, they could get a decent gig with Nintendo going, simply based on their past history. No need to whore yourself out to make anime arena battlers for Bamco, brehs.
 

DarkDetective

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,906
The Netherlands
I mean that result is pretty bad for Level 5, but for the budget of these games is 150k in opening week really a death blow? The games don't seem all that high budget so they're probably making a decent amount at the end of the day if this hits 500k no?

Definitely an indication they need to retool and find a new franchise to milk to death though.
The big problem is that they have a multimedia approach. They didn't only make a game, but also have a weekly anime show and a lot of merchandise offerings running at the same time. It requires a lot of planning to exploit those components to the fullest. An anime series is very expensive; I won't make their money back with only those TV advertisements between episode segments. They need a lot of physical merchandise, but the pivot of the entire series is the role-playing video game. Level-5 moved away from 3DS to mobile in the middle of the 3DS' lifespan, but mobile was a lot harder than expected, which is why projects like Layton Mystery Journey (Lady Layton), and The Snack World got 3DS sibling versions. During that time, Level-5 shifted focus to home consoles - I think that coincides with when they saw the Switch behind the scenes, but that's just my guess. When they revealed Inazuma Eleven Ares, it was a Android/iOS/Switch/PS4 game, but we haven't seen anything about any mobile version of it at all. That's another sign that they were super serious about mobile, but moved back to console in the last couple of years.

Unfortunately, Youkai Watch isn't the only franchise at Level-5 that's having problems. Inazuma Eleven Ares has been delayed for at least two years (remember when we were hoping it would come out with the World Cup? One year later, it even missed the Women's World Cup), but the anime has been running and has progressed, but it needs to stay in line with the game, so it can't continue too much, because that would mean the game's story needs to be massively overhauled. But more than a year of running a weekly anime show without a new game that will be the major source of investment returns, that's just wasted money, and you can see that with the declining animation quality throughout the seasons.

Then there's The Snack World, which just wasn't as appealing as previous Level-5 franchises, but also had the problem that it launched in 2017 on mobile (where it couldn't find success) and on 3DS (which had become pretty much irrelevant). So The Snack World was a failure as well - it sold 275k units on 3DS lifetime, and the 'Gold' version for Switch (released April 2018) added 113k units to that.

Inbetween, there was Layton's Mystery Journey (previously known as Lady Layton), which also didn't set the charts on fire (137k on 3DS, slightly more than half of the last Professor Layton game's LTD, which is also on 3DS). It cost $20 on mobile as a premium game and double on 3DS. The gameplay was dumbed down for mobile use, which made the 3DS version lose a lot of its appeal.

I expected further franchise decline, especially after Youkai Watch 3, but that never was much of a problem for Level-5, as they would invent the next big thing for schoolkids when the old thing was fading away. However, The Snack World, their reimagined Inazuma Eleven, their Professor Layton successor, and the continuation of Youkai Watch all flopped, and they haven't launched a new IP since. Megaton Musashi, which is a robot throwback to the 90s (or so?) has an identity crisis. It was first shown in 2016 (link), where concept images were shown 'on PlayStation hardware and 3DS' and the thing was supposed to come out in Summer 2017. It looks like Hino's focus was already on console back then, as he wanted to see Megaton Musashi on 'screens as big as possible'. Very promising, but if you want it out within a year, you better have a clear idea of what it's going to be already, especially its target platforms. We didn't hear anything back from Megaton Musashi until last Christmas. Still no platforms, still looks like a nostalgia party for 1980s/1990s kids rather than 2010s/2020s kids.

In other words, Level-5 is having a very, very rough time and I think it's better to focus on the games first before making further investments in expansion to other media, such as anime series and movies. The games are the fundamentals of all of their properties, and since HD console development is something entirely different than 3DS development or the live service maintenance of free-to-play mobile games, I'm afraid it's going to take the rest of the Switch's life cycle (and well into the life cycle of the PS5) before Level-5 can return to its former glory, but only if they have already found a clear vision for the future of the company and its IP development processes.
 
Jan 2, 2018
10,699
The big problem is that they have a multimedia approach. They didn't only make a game, but also have a weekly anime show and a lot of merchandise offerings running at the same time. It requires a lot of planning to exploit those components to the fullest. An anime series is very expensive; I won't make their money back with only those TV advertisements between episode segments. They need a lot of physical merchandise, but the pivot of the entire series is the role-playing video game. Level-5 moved away from 3DS to mobile in the middle of the 3DS' lifespan, but mobile was a lot harder than expected, which is why projects like Layton Mystery Journey (Lady Layton), and The Snack World got 3DS sibling versions. During that time, Level-5 shifted focus to home consoles - I think that coincides with when they saw the Switch behind the scenes, but that's just my guess. When they revealed Inazuma Eleven Ares, it was a Android/iOS/Switch/PS4 game, but we haven't seen anything about any mobile version of it at all. That's another sign that they were super serious about mobile, but moved back to console in the last couple of years.

Unfortunately, Youkai Watch isn't the only franchise at Level-5 that's having problems. Inazuma Eleven Ares has been delayed for at least two years (remember when we were hoping it would come out with the World Cup? One year later, it even missed the Women's World Cup), but the anime has been running and has progressed, but it needs to stay in line with the game, so it can't continue too much, because that would mean the game's story needs to be massively overhauled. But more than a year of running a weekly anime show without a new game that will be the major source of investment returns, that's just wasted money, and you can see that with the declining animation quality throughout the seasons.

Then there's The Snack World, which just wasn't as appealing as previous Level-5 franchises, but also had the problem that it launched in 2017 on mobile (where it couldn't find success) and on 3DS (which had become pretty much irrelevant). So The Snack World was a failure as well - it sold 275k units on 3DS lifetime, and the 'Gold' version for Switch (released April 2018) added 113k units to that.

Inbetween, there was Layton's Mystery Journey (previously known as Lady Layton), which also didn't set the charts on fire (137k on 3DS, slightly more than half of the last Professor Layton game's LTD, which is also on 3DS). It cost $20 on mobile as a premium game and double on 3DS. The gameplay was dumbed down for mobile use, which made the 3DS version lose a lot of its appeal.

I expected further franchise decline, especially after Youkai Watch 3, but that never was much of a problem for Level-5, as they would invent the next big thing for schoolkids when the old thing was fading away. However, The Snack World, their reimagined Inazuma Eleven, their Professor Layton successor, and the continuation of Youkai Watch all flopped, and they haven't launched a new IP since. Megaton Musashi, which is a robot throwback to the 90s (or so?) has an identity crisis. It was first shown in 2016 (link), where concept images were shown 'on PlayStation hardware and 3DS' and the thing was supposed to come out in Summer 2017. It looks like Hino's focus was already on console back then, as he wanted to see Megaton Musashi on 'screens as big as possible'. Very promising, but if you want it out within a year, you better have a clear idea of what it's going to be already, especially its target platforms. We didn't hear anything back from Megaton Musashi until last Christmas. Still no platforms, still looks like a nostalgia party for 1980s/1990s kids rather than 2010s/2020s kids.

In other words, Level-5 is having a very, very rough time and I think it's better to focus on the games first before making further investments in expansion to other media, such as anime series and movies. The games are the fundamentals of all of their properties, and since HD console development is something entirely different than 3DS development or the live service maintenance of free-to-play mobile games, I'm afraid it's going to take the rest of the Switch's life cycle (and well into the life cycle of the PS5) before Level-5 can return to its former glory, but only if they have already found a clear vision for the future of the company and its IP development processes.

That was a really informative write-up! Thank you!