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EDarkness

Member
Oct 25, 2017
582
Outside of like Days Gone (and Days Gone has zombified kids) and Fallout, there are not many kids you can just randomly kill for no reason... The children are sometimes killed for dramatic effect but uhhhhhhhh, drama and story telling is a little different than a child that was put in your game for pedophiles to jerk off to.

Slight difference there.

You haven't read much manga or watched much anime where kids (mostly high school kids) are killed in gruesome ways. I personally don't see a difference between seeing some breasts for "effect"/story than seeing them just because. Just like killing stuff in gruesome ways for "effect"/story is still killing someone in gruesome ways and society finds this totally acceptable. My thing is if they're gonna start censoring stuff, then they should go all the way and censor stuff like Mortal Kombat.
 

Avada Kedavra

Banned
Jan 23, 2019
756
Violence in video games can be rated accordingly. There's no pedo rating for child erotica. Stop equating violence with sexualization of minors.
 

ggx2ac

Sales Heaven or Sales Hell?
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,504
sony's been offering me a shitload of bias confirmation in the last couple of years. to be fair, it turns out it was basically scea that was the culprit, but they seem to have full control over the steering wheel now instead of deciding for their region if a game is 3d enough or should be part of a compilation or if it's hd enough. all that arbitrary bullshit seemed specifically targeted at japanese publishers and small localization studios - or was the byproduct of creating their brand one of the bleeding edge of technology, and not a place where everyone could succeed. despite their practices, it was the broadness of the psx and ps2 platforms that allowed for success from basically any genre or any publisher. there was so much growth in the rpg genre, sandbox genre, and action genre because a psx or ps2 game could be almost anything.

i'm not sure when this changed, but the language around the psp in the west was a specific indicator of where the direction would be heading. sure scea was quietly killing the chances of 2d games and their policies quietly killed working designs, but saying out loud that the psp would bring handhelds out of the gaming ghetto was putting a megaphone up to their mouths and declaring what they really thought of the industry. and even when the psp turned out to be insufficiently future-proof and had not and would not ever achieve this goal, scea was still in the process of stonewalling localizations that weren't part of their brand. around the time disgaea 3 was initially blocked behind the scenes and sakura wars 1+2 weren't allowed on psp because they were seen not as games but as text novels. who knows why this shitty decision making fell away. maybe it was the vita being such an obvious failure in the west that scea/siea didn't care about whatever games came to it. maybe they had simply given up on handhelds as a whole early on and didn't tell japan, so they super didn't care about what was coming to vita.

but maybe they should have actually paid attention because the moment they looked away, the vita brand became known for niche japanese games siea didn't care about and worse: gross shit that no one should care about. it's probably their specific negligence to the handheld market that fostered the audience no one should want. but when they went to fix it they did it in the way that required the least amount of effort from them.

and going forward if they don't foster relationships with smaller companies, this fanbase can be wiped clean from the start. if they want, siea can just secure those big japanese games that they care about (basically, final fantasy, from software's games, and capcom's stuff), and finally truly secure their brand as the one on the bleeding edge of technology. in doing so, they'll have a fanbase of whales and superwhales and developers making mobile-as-console games that vacuum all that sweet sweet revenue out from them. anyone else can just stick around and dine on the leftovers.

tl;dr:
-scea wants their brand to be about bleeding edge cool cinematic things
-psx era: no 2d games; ps2 era: gotta be in a compilation; ps3 era: gotta be hd; psp era: no text-based games
-sometime around 2009 or so after the psp had failed, scea stopped caring about the handheld market in general
-scea's inattention to the handheld market led to the rise of a fanbase they didn't care about
-scea's inattention also meant they didn't do anything about this fanbase because they didn't care about the handheld market
-ps vita came and went, but now they were stuck with this thing they should have probably paid some attention to
-siea now has to do some work to scrub this, but they do it pretty sloppily
-siea also just wants whale and superwhale money, so ps5 can probably get rid of those guys from the start (and everyone else!)

Since no one else has pointed out what they should be taking away from this.

SIE(HQ) being focused on big publishers to get the big games to make money means the PS5 would be catering to a specific audience where, if you've seen how AAA gaming has been this gen means very little genre variety.

Whether you like that focus is solely based on your preferences.

Of course other games will come, AAA games are going to take longer to develop which is why GaaS is an enticing prospect for publishers to make recurring revenue by continuously adding content to a game in exchange for microtransactions. However, this means people will have less time for other games. Smaller publishers already couldn't compete due to bleeding edge graphics, they're going to have a much harder time competing based on content.

This I expect will result in more revenue going to the AAA publishers, smaller publishers will be fighting over a shrinking market for them in which they may not have the funding to do more than keep pumping out iterative sequels.

The smaller publishers will either down size, move to a different market or sell off their assets to whichever companies that are moving towards a Netflix-style subscription service with exclusive games.
 

Sandfox

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,743
If Capcom kills off Ace Attorney in the next generation to chase a specific audience I'm done with them.
 

foxuzamaki

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,561
sony's been offering me a shitload of bias confirmation in the last couple of years. to be fair, it turns out it was basically scea that was the culprit, but they seem to have full control over the steering wheel now instead of deciding for their region if a game is 3d enough or should be part of a compilation or if it's hd enough. all that arbitrary bullshit seemed specifically targeted at japanese publishers and small localization studios - or was the byproduct of creating their brand one of the bleeding edge of technology, and not a place where everyone could succeed. despite their practices, it was the broadness of the psx and ps2 platforms that allowed for success from basically any genre or any publisher. there was so much growth in the rpg genre, sandbox genre, and action genre because a psx or ps2 game could be almost anything.

i'm not sure when this changed, but the language around the psp in the west was a specific indicator of where the direction would be heading. sure scea was quietly killing the chances of 2d games and their policies quietly killed working designs, but saying out loud that the psp would bring handhelds out of the gaming ghetto was putting a megaphone up to their mouths and declaring what they really thought of the industry. and even when the psp turned out to be insufficiently future-proof and had not and would not ever achieve this goal, scea was still in the process of stonewalling localizations that weren't part of their brand. around the time disgaea 3 was initially blocked behind the scenes and sakura wars 1+2 weren't allowed on psp because they were seen not as games but as text novels. who knows why this shitty decision making fell away. maybe it was the vita being such an obvious failure in the west that scea/siea didn't care about whatever games came to it. maybe they had simply given up on handhelds as a whole early on and didn't tell japan, so they super didn't care about what was coming to vita.

but maybe they should have actually paid attention because the moment they looked away, the vita brand became known for niche japanese games siea didn't care about and worse: gross shit that no one should care about. it's probably their specific negligence to the handheld market that fostered the audience no one should want. but when they went to fix it they did it in the way that required the least amount of effort from them.

and going forward if they don't foster relationships with smaller companies, this fanbase can be wiped clean from the start. if they want, siea can just secure those big japanese games that they care about (basically, final fantasy, from software's games, and capcom's stuff), and finally truly secure their brand as the one on the bleeding edge of technology. in doing so, they'll have a fanbase of whales and superwhales and developers making mobile-as-console games that vacuum all that sweet sweet revenue out from them. anyone else can just stick around and dine on the leftovers.

tl;dr:
-scea wants their brand to be about bleeding edge cool cinematic things
-psx era: no 2d games; ps2 era: gotta be in a compilation; ps3 era: gotta be hd; psp era: no text-based games
-sometime around 2009 or so after the psp had failed, scea stopped caring about the handheld market in general
-scea's inattention to the handheld market led to the rise of a fanbase they didn't care about
-scea's inattention also meant they didn't do anything about this fanbase because they didn't care about the handheld market
-ps vita came and went, but now they were stuck with this thing they should have probably paid some attention to
-siea now has to do some work to scrub this, but they do it pretty sloppily
-siea also just wants whale and superwhale money, so ps5 can probably get rid of those guys from the start (and everyone else!)
Anihawk spilling a gallon of tea
 

foxuzamaki

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,561
Of course I'm stretching the way of thinking, but for a failed console, the PSP sold, AFAIK, around 70m of units. It's not like Sony went and said "it sold less than a half of a Nintendo product, so it's a utter failure".

Nintendo would love 70m failure with Gamecube, or even Wii U.
Iirc not only was alot if not most of it's sales from Japan but once the PSP was hacked people just straight up stopped buying games for it, they either downloaded the games illegally or just resorted to just using their PSP as a mp3 player and such
 
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OP
OP
Chris1964

Chris1964

SalesEra Genius
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,155
Of course I'm stretching the way of thinking, but for a failed console, the PSP sold, AFAIK, around 70m of units. It's not like Sony went and said "it sold less than a half of a Nintendo product, so it's a utter failure".

Nintendo would love 70m failure with Gamecube, or even Wii U.
Hardware is half story. PSP started very strong at west but software sales fell of a cliff after first 1-2 years, you will find very few games charting. It's the opposite of what happened in Japan.
 
OP
OP
Chris1964

Chris1964

SalesEra Genius
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,155
There aren't many Switch games that could have shipped more than 1m last quarter and updated Japanese sales will be limited.

Super Mario Maker 2, Mario Kart 8 Deluxe and maybe Breath of the Wild / Smash Bros. Ultimate, everything else will be a bonus. Q3 will have the big updates.
 
OP
OP
Chris1964

Chris1964

SalesEra Genius
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,155
Super Mario Maker shipments are these:

Wii U - 4,00m until Mar 2019
3DS - 2,93m until Dec 2017

Super Mario Maker for Nintendo 3DS got a 2DS bundle at November 2018 and a Nintendo Selects SKU at February 2019 in US, it's comfortably over 3m by now.

Super Mario Maker 2 initial shipment could be somewhere between 2 and 3m.
 

Oregano

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,878
I'll note, although at the end of the day, Sony's ultimately allowed to regulate content on their platform, I have to absolutely admit how some of the policies have been implemented have been absolutely nonsensical. The biggest hurdle is the fact content checks are conducted in English, as well as all information needs to be written and provided in English. So not only do you need to be concerned about CERO, you also need to have money set aside for content checks by Sony, as well as possibly having a translator.

This can definitely be a huge hurdle for smaller publishers and devs, even if there's no active risk of Devs having to make any modifications.

I've only heard of this happening in ONE scenario, but one developer was reportedly forced by Sony to translate the whole game into English (fairly text heavy visual novel game, if I recall, though name is escaping me) and it was something that the devs themselves had no intentions of localizing. So that was fairly cost intensive on top of CERO and Sony checks as well.

I think another issue to is the content checks and how they're regulated are really inconsistent and there's no real way to account for what Sony may potentially look for. It seems vague from what it sounds like. It also sucks because technically some games after they've been required changes, theoretically could get a lower CERO rating at this point, but it'd probably be two costly to do a content check for the modified version, so I'd imagine they just opt to go for the one size fits all check and be done with it.

Also apparently I learned CERO's checks for games is still fairly backwards compared to most industries, where content and submissions can be done digitally, where CERO apparently requires stuff still mailed in. So that has to be fun too.

But yeah, that's my biggest issue with Sony's policy. They're free to regulate, but there's should be more support for territories where English isn't a strongly supported language for these checks and regulations, as well as more clear cut information about what to expect and what could possibly be changed.

I didn't mean to reignite a discussion that would get people banned but this is essentially it. The intentions are good but their actual methods are causing more harm than good.

sony's been offering me a shitload of bias confirmation in the last couple of years. to be fair, it turns out it was basically scea that was the culprit, but they seem to have full control over the steering wheel now instead of deciding for their region if a game is 3d enough or should be part of a compilation or if it's hd enough. all that arbitrary bullshit seemed specifically targeted at japanese publishers and small localization studios - or was the byproduct of creating their brand one of the bleeding edge of technology, and not a place where everyone could succeed. despite their practices, it was the broadness of the psx and ps2 platforms that allowed for success from basically any genre or any publisher. there was so much growth in the rpg genre, sandbox genre, and action genre because a psx or ps2 game could be almost anything.

i'm not sure when this changed, but the language around the psp in the west was a specific indicator of where the direction would be heading. sure scea was quietly killing the chances of 2d games and their policies quietly killed working designs, but saying out loud that the psp would bring handhelds out of the gaming ghetto was putting a megaphone up to their mouths and declaring what they really thought of the industry. and even when the psp turned out to be insufficiently future-proof and had not and would not ever achieve this goal, scea was still in the process of stonewalling localizations that weren't part of their brand. around the time disgaea 3 was initially blocked behind the scenes and sakura wars 1+2 weren't allowed on psp because they were seen not as games but as text novels. who knows why this shitty decision making fell away. maybe it was the vita being such an obvious failure in the west that scea/siea didn't care about whatever games came to it. maybe they had simply given up on handhelds as a whole early on and didn't tell japan, so they super didn't care about what was coming to vita.

but maybe they should have actually paid attention because the moment they looked away, the vita brand became known for niche japanese games siea didn't care about and worse: gross shit that no one should care about. it's probably their specific negligence to the handheld market that fostered the audience no one should want. but when they went to fix it they did it in the way that required the least amount of effort from them.

and going forward if they don't foster relationships with smaller companies, this fanbase can be wiped clean from the start. if they want, siea can just secure those big japanese games that they care about (basically, final fantasy, from software's games, and capcom's stuff), and finally truly secure their brand as the one on the bleeding edge of technology. in doing so, they'll have a fanbase of whales and superwhales and developers making mobile-as-console games that vacuum all that sweet sweet revenue out from them. anyone else can just stick around and dine on the leftovers.

tl;dr:
-scea wants their brand to be about bleeding edge cool cinematic things
-psx era: no 2d games; ps2 era: gotta be in a compilation; ps3 era: gotta be hd; psp era: no text-based games
-sometime around 2009 or so after the psp had failed, scea stopped caring about the handheld market in general
-scea's inattention to the handheld market led to the rise of a fanbase they didn't care about
-scea's inattention also meant they didn't do anything about this fanbase because they didn't care about the handheld market
-ps vita came and went, but now they were stuck with this thing they should have probably paid some attention to
-siea now has to do some work to scrub this, but they do it pretty sloppily
-siea also just wants whale and superwhale money, so ps5 can probably get rid of those guys from the start (and everyone else!)

The recent quote in the Wall Street Journal from SIE exec about how small companies will support PS5 anyway confirmed their approach, and it's not like they are wrong. When you look at the censorship stuff D3 might have put a funny video mocking it but they still went to the effort of making a completely different version of their game(Labyrinth Life) to sell on PS4.

Does make it funny that Takuro Yamashita had to apologise for saying Sony doesn't care for small publishers though.
 

AniHawk

No Fear, Only Math
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,162
Does make it funny that Takuro Yamashita had to apologise for saying Sony doesn't care for small publishers though.

external pressure will do that to people.

The recent quote in the Wall Street Journal from SIE exec about how small companies will support PS5 anyway confirmed their approach, and it's not like they are wrong. When you look at the censorship stuff D3 might have put a funny video mocking it but they still went to the effort of making a completely different version of their game(Labyrinth Life) to sell on PS4.

this is honestly where nintendo was all the way through switch. they thought 'we're nintendo - we'll just make a best-selling platform and people will have to support us!' except instead of alienating everyone except the biggest publishers, they alienated all publishers. partly because their relationships were so broken, they were able to secure partnerships with small companies to provide content early in the switch's life, and those relationships are paying off huge now, with healthy ecosystems for content that doesn't get a spotlight on other platforms due to overcrowding or a lack of attention from the first-party.

i don't think sony fans in particular are going to be prepared for the direction sony's taking with ps5. some people will defend it, sure - just see how some folks get behind a multiplayer paywall and lack of crossplay - but the next step is all about making sure live service games make ps5 their home. it's how they believe the most revenue and in the end what are you going to do small publisher, not make games for playstation?
 
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test_account

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,645
These censored games are still on the store though...and the content is just covered up in many cases. They aren't taking much of a stand. Also Trish's butt is despicable content?
The DMC5 situation was a wierd one. First the butt was censored with a lense flare, but not in the japanese version. Then a patch came that removed the lense flare, but only in the american version (the japanese version is still the same), not in the european version lol. If anything, i'd expect the opposite since Europe is usually more lenient with such content compared to USA. I dont know if theres any recent updates on the european version though, but this was the state of the game a few months ago.
 

Oregano

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,878
external pressure will do that to people.



this is honestly where nintendo was all the way through switch. they thought 'we're nintendo - we'll just make a best-selling platform and people will have to support us!' except instead of alienating everyone except the biggest publishers, they alienated all publishers. partly because their relationships were so broken, they were able to secure partnerships with small companies to provide content early in the switch's life, and those relationships are paying off huge now, with healthy ecosystems for content that doesn't get a spotlight on other platforms due to overcrowding or a lack of attention from the first-party.

i don't think sony fans in particular are going to be prepared for the direction sony's taking with ps5. some people will defend it, sure - just see how some folks get behind a multiplayer paywall and lack of crossplay - but the next step is all about making sure live service games make ps5 their home. it's how they believe the most revenue and in the end what are you going to do small publisher, not make games for playstation?

To be fair I think Nintendo realized that wasn't completely true even a decade ago, even though publicly they still claimed it. Koei Tecmo's Switch support follows a decade of Nintendo courting them by publishing their games(Samurai Warriors 3), adopting their IPs(Fatal Frame/Project Zero), having them work on first party games(Metroid Other M, FE: Three Houses) and doing IP crossovers(Hyrule & Fire Emblem Warriors, Pokémon Conquest).
 

Kerotan

Banned
Oct 31, 2018
3,951
I find it funny that people get so up in arms about this kinda thing when those same minors can get dismembered or worse in games. So it's okay for us to kill these minors, but not see them naked?
I actually don't think it's normal to butcher kids in games. It makes my stomach turn seeing some of you guys in favour of these games sexualising minors. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

Looking at Amazon sekuro wars is going good. I wonder what kind of first week numbers we can expect from it.
 
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Principate

Member
Oct 31, 2017
11,186
Civ's AI is horrible and it's the main issue with the series and I would be willing to take Civ7 being always online if they could stream super high quality AI to everyone's games.

But it still has a ton it has to do whereas Fire Emblem's AI has to do almost nothing.
I mean it's not about streaming AI, the default tactics they give to the AI is just poor, partly by design (very few really want to play near unwinnable games) and partly because I seems to be a lack of creativity regarding strategic design.

While there's a lot of systems the AI has to manage ignoring everything else the actual combat of civilization games are extremely simplistic I'm pretty sure even a turn based StarCraft would run circles civilization games based purely on unit interactions it's very comparable to fire emblem in that respect outside of singeing. The AI is also fair from consistent in even making good decisions it simply makes decisions. FE is a bit more consistent in that regard.
 

test_account

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,645
this is honestly where nintendo was all the way through switch. they thought 'we're nintendo - we'll just make a best-selling platform and people will have to support us!' except instead of alienating everyone except the biggest publishers, they alienated all publishers. partly because their relationships were so broken, they were able to secure partnerships with small companies to provide content early in the switch's life, and those relationships are paying off huge now, with healthy ecosystems for content that doesn't get a spotlight on other platforms due to overcrowding or a lack of attention from the first-party.

i don't think sony fans in particular are going to be prepared for the direction sony's taking with ps5. some people will defend it, sure - just see how some folks get behind a multiplayer paywall and lack of crossplay - but the next step is all about making sure live service games make ps5 their home. it's how they believe the most revenue and in the end what are you going to do small publisher, not make games for playstation?
Are there any information/general consensus to which type of relationship that is "required" (for the lack of a better word) for 3rd parties, big and small, to support a platform? The reason why i wonder is because each of the current platforms has close to 2000 games on them (at least PS4 and Switch, not entierly sure about Xbox), and with so many, all of those publishers/developers cant exactly have a close relationship with the 1st party. How do you think this will change in the next generation (at least with PS5)?
 
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AniHawk

No Fear, Only Math
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,162
Of course I'm stretching the way of thinking, but for a failed console, the PSP sold, AFAIK, around 70m of units. It's not like Sony went and said "it sold less than a half of a Nintendo product, so it's a utter failure".

Nintendo would love 70m failure with Gamecube, or even Wii U.

psp is one of the very few video game systems to sell 80m+. the 3ds didn't even do this. the psp also has a fairly standard attach ratio for a handheld, which is somewhere between 4 and 5 games per system. it's a sales success for sure. when i say it failed, i mean in the eyes of sony. they wanted the ps2 as a handheld. they wanted a new proprietary storage medium that could become standard across all handheld formats - and started by selling games and movies on umd. but the system was not future-proofed. the ds carved out a big audience seeking smaller experiences and non-games: an audience sony blatantly ignored in their early dismissal of the handheld market. the ds became the face of handheld gaming in that era in a way the psp, with all its gee-wiz 2004 gadgetry never could.

the other element was iphone. sure they might have missed out on what gaming audiences were into, but at least the psp was the most technologically advanced all-in-one entertainment device on the market - until you could also watch movies and play music off of something people actually use every day: a phone. and not only that, but the movies and music were available for download and could be stored right on the device. no need to buy a disc and swap it out (i'm not sure how music worked but my assumption without any research was that it had to be loaded onto a card and wasn't available for download off a psp online store).

so in three years after launch, the psp wasn't a platform that offered console gaming on the go. it didn't offer the most robust library of handheld games that handheld gamers wanted. it didn't offer the best way to experience the most modern features that an all-in-one handheld device could. in 2007, every aspect that had made the psp seem like bleeding edge technology in 2004 was gone. given how little attention the psp had after 2007 from sony in america, i believe this is where they stopped giving extra attention to the handheld market, and just let it fade out.
 

AniHawk

No Fear, Only Math
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,162
Are there any information/general consensus to which type of relationship that is "required" (for the lack of a better word) for 3rd parties, big and small, to support a platform? The reason why i wonder is because each of the current platforms has close to 2000 games on them (at least PS4 and Switch, not entierly sure about Xbox), and with so many, all of those publishers/developers cant exactly have a close relationship with the 1st party. How do you think this will change in the next generation (at least with PS5)?

the only thing that comes up again and again is launch parity. this wasn't a thing in the ps2/xb/gc era and it resulted in uneven launch cycles (gamecube almost always would launch last). it became standardized in the ps360 years and it remains a thing now.

so if you're launching a game and you're angling for that nintendo switch audience, it doesn't hurt to have a ps4 or sometimes xb1 version if you think you can make the extra scratch on the side.
 

test_account

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,645
the only thing that comes up again and again is launch parity. this wasn't a thing in the ps2/xb/gc era and it resulted in uneven launch cycles (gamecube almost always would launch last). it became standardized in the ps360 years and it remains a thing now.

so if you're launching a game and you're angling for that nintendo switch audience, it doesn't hurt to have a ps4 or sometimes xb1 version if you think you can make the extra scratch on the side.
I understand. Do you think this, or something else, will change in the next generation, in regards to what you said about the PS5? Mostly about smaller publisher, will they will drop support or do something if they feel that they dont have a good relationship with Sony (or whatever 1st party there might be)? Or do you think that it might be different from region to region since you mentioned SIEA more in specific?
 

AniHawk

No Fear, Only Math
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,162
I understand. Do you think this will change in the next generation, in regards to what you said about the PS5? Mostly about smaller publisher, will they will drop support or do something if they feel that they dont have a good relationship with Sony (or whatever 1st party there might be)? Or do you think that it might be different from region to region since you mentioned SIEA more in specific?

i don't think it changes unless playstation becomes such a poor userbase for those games that it results in something like 5% or 10% of overall sales. not sure where the threshold is when a game no longer is worth making for a platform, but it happens to xbox one on the regular. it also happened quite a bit to 3ds on the indie scene despite the platform having a mainstream presence - it really wasn't built for people to find and enjoy indie games.

sony could pretty easily shit the bed through their trousers like microsoft did in may 2013 if they go in too hard on this strategy. if they come out and are specifically highlighting anthem, ubisoft's next live service (beyond good & evil 2), or live service aspects of the last of us part 2, then it could be seen as them loudly declaring other kinds of games as unimportant.

the ps4 didn't launch with the best library, but one of the positive aspects of not having a great launch lineup is that they made use of what they had, and advertising indie games and smaller projects gave the perception that sony did care about all game experiences. it let them get away with saying they were '4 the gamers'. if they go too far in on an ideology, it could create the perception that sony's offerings are generally all the same, or that there's little on the platform other than a few select major titles.

the different regions used to have some autonomy. japan would make its own stuff and strike its own deals - you'd see things like special ps vitas in japan but not out in the west. europe was seemingly where the quantic dream relationship blossomed. i think that's over with now, and that they're more like marketing branches for the direction that the head of playstation agrees on. this isn't too different from how nintendo functions, although for nintendo they work out of japan and for sony it means working out of the us.
 
Oct 25, 2017
15,172
I can see relations break down further into the next gen if Sony decided to keep their policies up at all JP devs no matter what their size (even if those same policies almost never effect larger pubs), but I still can't see an event where they just abandon the platform even if Nintendo treated them far better in some respects, it'll just be easier for them to consider multi platform.
 

K Samedi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,990
i don't think it changes unless playstation becomes such a poor userbase for those games that it results in something like 5% or 10% of overall sales. not sure where the threshold is when a game no longer is worth making for a platform, but it happens to xbox one on the regular. it also happened quite a bit to 3ds on the indie scene despite the platform having a mainstream presence - it really wasn't built for people to find and enjoy indie games.

sony could pretty easily shit the bed through their trousers like microsoft did in may 2013 if they go in too hard on this strategy. if they come out and are specifically highlighting anthem, ubisoft's next live service (beyond good & evil 2), or live service aspects of the last of us part 2, then it could be seen as them loudly declaring other kinds of games as unimportant.

the ps4 didn't launch with the best library, but one of the positive aspects of not having a great launch lineup is that they made use of what they had, and advertising indie games and smaller projects gave the perception that sony did care about all game experiences. it let them get away with saying they were '4 the gamers'. if they go too far in on an ideology, it could create the perception that sony's offerings are generally all the same, or that there's little on the platform other than a few select major titles.

the different regions used to have some autonomy. japan would make its own stuff and strike its own deals - you'd see things like special ps vitas in japan but not out in the west. europe was seemingly where the quantic dream relationship blossomed. i think that's over with now, and that they're more like marketing branches for the direction that the head of playstation agrees on. this isn't too different from how nintendo functions, although for nintendo they work out of japan and for sony it means working out of the us.
I think it will be hard for indies to support PS5 if their sales are a minor fraction of the total. I think PC and Switch will be the natural home for indies and indies with bigger teams or budgets could release day and date on the PS5 but in general indies are pretty low on resources. Focusing on one platform can be crucial to their success. I think we will mostly see the popular indie brands be time exclusive to Switch. Its pretty much the opposite of AAA games coming to Switch. You have a few here and there but in general their natural home will be on the Playstation and Xbox.
 

Refyref

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,025
psp is one of the very few video game systems to sell 80m+. the 3ds didn't even do this. the psp also has a fairly standard attach ratio for a handheld, which is somewhere between 4 and 5 games per system. it's a sales success for sure. when i say it failed, i mean in the eyes of sony. they wanted the ps2 as a handheld.
Wasn't the PSP in the west the equivalent of the Wii in Japan? As in, it had a great start, but sales dropped drastically much, much earlier than competing systems? It started to happen in Japan as well, but thanks to games like the MHP games, it managed to recover. That recovery never happened in the west.
 
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LakLak

Alt Account
Banned
Jul 4, 2019
244
It's progressive to have a secret, unclear policy of censorship that makes dev's lives harder and gives the big company more control over them?

It's not a secret, it's quite clear what devs shouldn't try to do : don't play with the limits of decency and you'll be fine. Play dangerous games, win stupid prizes.

These censored games are still on the store though...and the content is just covered up in many cases. They aren't taking much of a stand. Also Trish's butt is despicable content?

They are taking a stand though. Looks how much riled the alt-right gamers and some others problematic group of person are because of Sony "censoring", for example. When you're angering gamegate kind of people, you're always doing something right imo.

About Trish's butt, yes I think it was problematic. Not despicable, but still problematic. It's a matter of not over-sexualized a woman body when there's no need to. Trish being nude was only there to please low instinct, it serves next to no purpose. The justification for it to exist is barebone. Lady being completely nude and completely shown is even worse, it's pure empty fan-service. I could be wrong, but I can't remember Nero, Vergil or Dante being nude in DMCV.
 
Oct 25, 2017
15,172
About Trish's butt, yes I think it was problematic. Not despicable, but still problematic. It's a matter of not over-sexualized a woman body when there's no need to. Trish being nude was only there to please low instinct, it serves next to no purpose. The justification for it to exist is barebone. Lady being completely nude and completely shown is even worse, it's pure empty fan-service. I could be wrong, but I can't remember Nero, Vergil or Dante being nude in DMCV.
It was entirely needless though, since that particular instance of nudity was incidental and that bit of censoring was patched out later on anyways. Hell for several scenes afterward, Trish is shown behind the back nude or in a towel before she gets fully clothed. If Sony truly thought the scene was problematic enough then they wouldn't be doing these half ass measures that barely do any difference and would just ask Capcom to redo the scenario altogether. Which is sort of the point here, you're inherently misinterpreting the intent of what they're doing.

They have an image of a brand they want to maintain worldwide to the point where even the games that would never get localized and are properly rated fall under scrutiny with no relevant support needed for the transition. The reason here is that the policy itself is unspoken, unexplained, and mostly inconsistent. There are obvious censorships happening like with fanservice-y visual novels or dungeon crawlers, but then there's the inconsistency with other games like alterations to Warriors Orochi 4 or DMCV when games like Dead or Alive and Kill la Kill remain unaltered despite more titilating visuals. There have been games that for the most part show aged adults that keep having to be altered in development despite being similar to other games with fanservice elements untouched by Sony that have already released on the platform around the time these issues cropped up. If Sony is taking a stand, it's poorly executed, and it's not as clearcut as thank you Sony for taking a stand against these gross games and only them. Because they're still on the platform in some form, they're still fanservice-y, and Sony continues to benefit from them on the marketplace.

Enough of that though, it's a topic that doesn't have any real regard to what we're talking about for this thread here. I'm still looking for first day impressions of retailer sales for FE.
 
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test_account

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,645
i don't think it changes unless playstation becomes such a poor userbase for those games that it results in something like 5% or 10% of overall sales. not sure where the threshold is when a game no longer is worth making for a platform, but it happens to xbox one on the regular. it also happened quite a bit to 3ds on the indie scene despite the platform having a mainstream presence - it really wasn't built for people to find and enjoy indie games.

sony could pretty easily shit the bed through their trousers like microsoft did in may 2013 if they go in too hard on this strategy. if they come out and are specifically highlighting anthem, ubisoft's next live service (beyond good & evil 2), or live service aspects of the last of us part 2, then it could be seen as them loudly declaring other kinds of games as unimportant.

the ps4 didn't launch with the best library, but one of the positive aspects of not having a great launch lineup is that they made use of what they had, and advertising indie games and smaller projects gave the perception that sony did care about all game experiences. it let them get away with saying they were '4 the gamers'. if they go too far in on an ideology, it could create the perception that sony's offerings are generally all the same, or that there's little on the platform other than a few select major titles.

the different regions used to have some autonomy. japan would make its own stuff and strike its own deals - you'd see things like special ps vitas in japan but not out in the west. europe was seemingly where the quantic dream relationship blossomed. i think that's over with now, and that they're more like marketing branches for the direction that the head of playstation agrees on. this isn't too different from how nintendo functions, although for nintendo they work out of japan and for sony it means working out of the us.
I see your point and i agree. I think its important to have a wide range of support. I guess Sony's claim on focusing on the bigger publishers can be interpreted in some different ways (still remains to see how this will unfold), but i hope this doesnt mean any "shunning" (or what i shall call it) of smaller publishers, that it makes it harder for those publishers than what it has to be. I expect at least it to be just as easy and cheap, if not easier and cheaper, to get one's content on PS5 compared to how it is on the PS4.

About differences in the markets, yeah, it might be more of a worldwide focus indeed. I can maybe see some special editions (PS5 hardware bundles) that will be exclusive for Japan, but when it comes to games, i guess it wont be too much difference from how things are today.
 

LakLak

Alt Account
Banned
Jul 4, 2019
244
It was entirely needless though, since that particular instance of nudity was incidental and that bit of censoring was patched out later on anyways. Hell for several scenes afterward, Trish is shown behind the back nude or in a towel before she gets fully clothed. If Sony truly thought the scene was problematic enough then they wouldn't be doing these half ass measures that barely do any difference and would just ask Capcom to redo the scenario altogether. Which is sort of the point here, you're inherently misinterpreting the intent of what they're doing.

It wasn't needless and I don't find it half-assed, they provoked a lot of reactions and put the finger where it hurts. It also revealed a big problem in the industry : over-sexualization of women is tied to this industry and a good amount of people, devs included, don't want it to change. It's gross and needs to change. I'm not interpreting anything by the way, Sony spoke about their intent pretty well : https://www.wsj.com/articles/sony-cracks-down-on-sexually-explicit-content-in-games-11555427944

"Two factors last year combined to turn that unease into action, these Sony officials say. One was the rise of the #MeToo movement in the U.S., which pointed to the dangers of being associated with content that some might see as demeaning to women. The second was the emergence of channels on sites like YouTube and Amazon Inc.'s Twitch where gamers play in front of a camera and are watched by fans online. That means games meeting Japan's laxer standards can get world-wide exposure."

There isn't much room for interpretation, it's clear Sony is taking a stand. It's not like they can ignore something like #MeToo or ignore that the gaming industry have a rampant problem of women depiction that exist for decades now.

They have an image of a brand they want to maintain worldwide to the point where even the games that would never get localized and are properly rated fall under scrutiny with no relevant support needed for the transition. The reason here is that the policy itself is unspoken, unexplained, and mostly inconsistent. There are obvious censorships happening like with fanservice-y visual novels or dungeon crawlers, but then there's the inconsistency with other games like alterations to Warriors Orochi 4 or DMCV when games like Dead or Alive and Kill la Kill remain unaltered despite more titilating visuals. There have been games that for the most part show aged adults that keep having to be altered in development despite being similar to other games with fanservice elements untouched by Sony that have already released on the platform around the time these issues cropped up.

You're confused about Sony policies because you're comparing apple to oranges. Some games got hit because they contain straight-up nudity (DMCV), others got hit because the characters looks underage, other got hit for borderline fanservice (DOA)... Plus, all those games haven't got hit in the same way.

You're also misinformed about Warrior Orochi 4 : https://imgur.com/IQk47pj Sony didn't censor it, it's a problem tied to framerate. Dead or Alive was also affected https://www.pushsquare.com/news/201...ewd_items_from_dead_or_alive_xtreme_3_scarlet

Enough of that though, it's a topic that doesn't have any real regard to what we're talking about for this thread here. I'm still looking for first day impressions of retailer sales for FE.

I think it's an important discussion since Sony's stance is mostly focused on japanese games, at least for now. I don't see how FE first week numbers should be more important than discussing this, unless a moderator decides. Women depiction in gaming is very worth being discussed.
 

Deleted member 51691

User requested account closure
Banned
Jan 6, 2019
17,834
I think it's an important discussion since Sony's stance is mostly focused on japanese games, at least for now. I don't see how FE first week numbers should be more important than discussing this, unless a moderator decides. Women depiction in gaming is very worth being discussed.
Isn't there already an OT for this type of discussion?
 

brutaka3

Member
Oct 27, 2017
482
I think it's an important discussion since Sony's stance is mostly focused on japanese games, at least for now. I don't see how FE first week numbers should be more important than discussing this, unless a moderator decides. Women depiction in gaming is very worth being discussed.

That's why it has many threads to discuss it. This is not one of them.
 

MegaXZero

One Winged Slayer
Member
Jun 21, 2018
5,079
Isn't there already an OT for this type of discussion?
Multiple. One for Sony's vague policy and another for the depiction of women in gaming. One can always make another thread if they feel the old ones aren't good enough.

Edit: just let the conversation get back on track
 
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JustALurker

Member
Feb 12, 2019
1,018
So this is pretty different to what the current discussion is but I have high hopes for Astral Chain in Japan!

I believe with the voucher programme digital uptake will be higher but overall I expect this title to reach 100k by the end of the year. It's a new IP but I'm sure with Nintendo marketing, it can reach at least those numbers?
 
Oct 25, 2017
15,172
So this is pretty different to what the current discussion is but I have high hopes for Astral Chain in Japan!

I believe with the voucher programme digital uptake will be higher but overall I expect this title to reach 100k by the end of the year. It's a new IP but I'm sure with Nintendo marketing, it can reach at least those numbers?
It'll at least do a lot better than Wonderful 101. I don't see it ignoring charts though.
 

Absolute

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
2,090
At this point I am looking forward to the next discussion on Monster Hunter, Capcom and Switch 3rd party.
 

MegaXZero

One Winged Slayer
Member
Jun 21, 2018
5,079
Well at least in Target's case they never received any stock of Fire Emblem 3 Houses (I checked later on Friday though).
I preordered, but the GameStop and target near me were out of stock yesterday.

I'm curious about the Japanese supply given Amazon japan's stock issue. Maybe demand was higher than people thought.