Media Create Sales: Week 47, 2019 (Nov 18 - Nov 24)

Oregano · Dec 1, 2019

Stygr said:
Japan is C tier for Sony now.

Europe and NA is where they want to focus and even if they keep MH, DQ and FF going forward, is going to be really hard to sell PS5 when NSW is hot and the launch price is going to be higher than PS4.

Pretty sure all major publishers are ready to support PS5 and not NSW for their AAA games.

Yup.

The bigger threat to Sony is the fact that a bunch of Japanese games are looking at Xbox now. This generation Japan hasn't really been a region about selling hardware, it's about leveraging the exclusive content it provided PlayStation worldwide.

Sony doesn't have to care about how much the PS5 sells in Japan, or whether Switch is selling a lot better, because PlayStation already has third party support locked up. PS4 selling a million or two more units in Japan doesn't really change anything for them.

Lelouch0612 · Dec 1, 2019

The idea that support is locked in accross console generations isn't something correlated by data.

Monster Hunter, Dragon Quest, Tales of ... all changed platforms multiple times in the past decade.

ILikeFeet · Dec 1, 2019

Lelouch0612 said:
The idea that support is locked in accross console generations isn't something correlated by data.

Monster Hunter, Dragon Quest, Tales of ... all changed platforms multiple times in the past decade.

I still remember the Monster Hunter 3 jump like it was yesterday

Good times

ItWasMeantToBe19 · Dec 1, 2019

Lelouch0612 said:
The idea that support is locked in accross console generations isn't something correlated by data.

Monster Hunter, Dragon Quest, Tales of ... all changed platforms multiple times in the past decade.

KH Next, FF7R2, FF16, RE8, Dragon's Dogma 2, Monster Hunter Next, etc etc will be PS5 games.

Pretty confident there.

Lelouch0612 · Dec 1, 2019

More generally the current trend is to go multiplatform. Thanks to scalable engines, it becomes more and more easy for developpers to release a game on multiple platforms. It also makes sense sales wise.

However, a multiplatform world isn't something constructors want. They want to differentiate their platforms (and Sony/MS can release only a limited number of games by it). Hence, moneyhating.

At the begining of every new gen, moneyhating is fierce since it is a crucial time for new consoles. There will be surprises.

ItWasMeantToBe19 · Dec 1, 2019

Lelouch0612 said:
More generally the current trend is to go multiplatform. Thanks to scalable engines, it becomes more and more easy for developpers to release a game on multiple platforms. It also makes sense sales wise.

However, a multiplatform world isn't something constructors want. They want to differentiate their platforms (and Sony/MS can release only a limited number of games by it). Hence, moneyhating.

At the begining of every new gen, moneyhating is fierce since it is a crucial time for new consoles. There will be surprises.

Yeah, I don't think Monster Hunter World 2 being PS5 exclusive or PS5+Xbox 4 will impact the PS5 at all in Japan.

Oregano · Dec 1, 2019

Even if Phil manages to moneyhat some exclusive games it will be a repeat of the 360 days where those games come to PS5 with expanded content.

Sony doesn't have to moneyhat anything. The biggest third party IP they don't have access to at the moment is Story of Seasons/Rune Factory which aren't significant enough for a moneyhat.

Jimmy Joe · Dec 1, 2019

ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
Yeah, I don't think Monster Hunter World 2 being PS5 exclusive or PS5+Xbox 4 will impact the PS5 at all in Japan.

You're not wrong, but it would be interesting if there was some truly shocking moneyhat, like a year's exclusivity for Monster Hunter World 2 on the Nextbone

Now granted I don't think that's very likely to happen for a cavalcade of reasons, but it's an interesting thought experiment

Lelouch0612 · Dec 1, 2019

Oregano said:
Even if Phil manages to moneyhat some exclusive games it will be a repeat of the 360 days where those games come to PS5 with expanded content.

Sony doesn't have to moneyhat anything. The biggest third party IP they don't have access to at the moment is Story of Seasons/Rune Factory which aren't significant enough for a moneyhat.

Sony is already moneyhating, that's how they locked in some of their support.

Their moneyhating expands to multiplatform franchise like FIFA and CoD too.

Deleted member 51691 · Dec 1, 2019

Jimmy Joe said:
You're not wrong, but it would be interesting if there was some truly shocking moneyhat, like a year's exclusivity for Monster Hunter World 2 on the Nextbone

Now granted I don't think that's very likely to happen for a cavalcade of reasons, but it's an interesting thought experiment

MHW2 timed exclusivity for Scarlett would be a huge move by Microsoft

Would be way too expensive, though

Gartooth · Dec 1, 2019

The big AAA IP staying on PS5 (and Xbox I guess) is a pretty reasonable assumption.

My biggest question is if those 3rd parties will do anything to still keep their franchises relevant to the Japanese market or if they're willing to give that up. Like not Switch ports, but even low budget side games or spinoffs to say "hey here's a cute spinoff MH game, now go buy a PS5 if you want the real MH".

K Samedi · Dec 1, 2019

Oregano said:
Even if Phil manages to moneyhat some exclusive games it will be a repeat of the 360 days where those games come to PS5 with expanded content.

Sony doesn't have to moneyhat anything. The biggest third party IP they don't have access to at the moment is Story of Seasons/Rune Factory which aren't significant enough for a moneyhat.

The problem of Sony in Japan has been getting AAA third party support early in the generation. They need big next gen exlusive games the first 2 years to reach healthy numbers. I don't think they need exclusives, they need AAA content from Japanese publishers faster and I think the money hatting will be more about skipping PS4 than getting exclusives.

Gotdatmoney · Dec 1, 2019

I dont think there will be much of any surprises next gen. Purely exclusive games were already dying this gen and besides Persona and Falcom I expected mostly everythjng else to transition to multiplat or remain multiplat

Lelouch0612 · Dec 1, 2019

K Samedi said:
The problem of Sony in Japan has been getting AAA third party support early in the generation. They need big next gen exlusive games the first 2 years to reach healthy numbers. I don't think they need exclusives, they need AAA content from Japanese publishers faster and I think the money hatting will be more about skipping PS4 than getting exclusives.

The problem is that most of the big JP franchises are JRPG. These games are frontaloaded so they need a big userbase to sell big numbers. It takes 3y+ for a Sony platform to reach a significant userbase.

That's why they are always coming late.

Oregano · Dec 1, 2019

Lelouch0612 said:
Sony is already moneyhating, that's how they locked in some of their support.

Their moneyhating expands to multiplatform franchise like FIFA and CoD too.

I'm sure they will do co-marketing but there's not going to be a situation where a Japanese game comes to PS5 only because Sony offered incentives.

K Samedi said:
The problem of Sony in Japan has been getting AAA third party support early in the generation. They need big next gen exlusive games the first 2 years to reach healthy numbers. I don't think they need exclusives, they need AAA content from Japanese publishers faster and I think the money hatting will be more about skipping PS4 than getting exclusives.

Do they?

What happens if PS5 doesn't reach healthy numbers in Japan?

Third parties are gearing their technology for that level of hardware and aiming for a worldwide audience. Xbox would be their only other option but no matter how slow adoption of PS5 is domestically it should still lead Xbox to a significant degree.

Sony only has to worry if their hardware failing happens worldwide, or Xbox somehow gets a significant lead both worldwide and in Japan.

Chris1964 · Dec 1, 2019

PlayStation awards are at Tuesday and, going by last year, PS4 December deals for Japan will be announced tomorrow.

ggx2ac · Dec 1, 2019

Stygr said:
Pretty sure all major publishers are ready to support PS5 and not NSW for their AAA games.

Major publishers are ready to support the successor to the console that has sold over 100 million consoles worldwide which already had the best third party support!?

I don't know...

Lelouch0612 · Dec 1, 2019

Oregano said:
I'm sure they will do co-marketing but there's not going to be a situation where a Japanese game comes to PS5 only because Sony offered incentives.

Monster Hunter

After Nintendo offered incentives to get the franchise on 3DS.

Oregano · Dec 1, 2019

Lelouch0612 said:
Monster Hunter

You think there's any chance Capcom skips the PS5 for Monster Hunter?

Jimmy Joe · Dec 1, 2019

stealthyfrog said:
MHW2 timed exclusivity for Scarlett would be a huge move by Microsoft

Would be way too expensive, though

Yeah, among the cavalcade of reasons "the proposition would be so expensive as to beggar the imagination" is at the top

Lelouch0612 · Dec 1, 2019

Oregano said:
You think there's any chance Capcom skips the PS5 for Monster Hunter?

Not really but they did get it on PS4 thanks to that.

K Samedi · Dec 1, 2019

Lelouch0612 said:
The problem is that most of the big JP franchises are JRPG. These games are frontaloaded so they need a big userbase to sell big numbers. It takes 3y+ for a Sony platform to reach a significant userbase.

That's why they are always coming late.

Well you have games that sell to an active user base and don't really excite people but act as good filler titles, and you have games that sell hardware. Monster Hunter, Final Fantasy and studf like that actually sell hardware and do good numbers even on a low userbase because they grow the platform. Its also a good time to introduce new IP early in a generation because people are very receptive to them when a new generation starts.

Oregano · Dec 1, 2019

Lelouch0612 said:
Not really but they did get it on PS4 thanks to that.

Okay but with the PS5 what is there left for them to moneyhat?

Story of Seasons, Rune Factory, Shin Megami Tensei.

Those are the biggest franchises currently on/announced for Switch and not PlayStation. None of them are worth moneyhatting.

fiendcode · Dec 1, 2019

Oregano said:
Even if Phil manages to moneyhat some exclusive games it will be a repeat of the 360 days where those games come to PS5 with expanded content.

Sony doesn't have to moneyhat anything. The biggest third party IP they don't have access to at the moment is Story of Seasons/Rune Factory which aren't significant enough for a moneyhat.

They most likely moneyhatted MHW, FFVII and maybe even to get DQXI back onboard. I wouldn't be surprised if there were incentives flying on the lower end too for things like Judgement, Sakura Wars and so on.

K Samedi · Dec 1, 2019

Oregano said:
I'm sure they will do co-marketing but there's not going to be a situation where a Japanese game comes to PS5 only because Sony offered incentives.

Do they?

What happens if PS5 doesn't reach healthy numbers in Japan?

Third parties are gearing their technology for that level of hardware and aiming for a worldwide audience. Xbox would be their only other option but no matter how slow adoption of PS5 is domestically it should still lead Xbox to a significant degree.

Sony only has to worry if their hardware failing happens worldwide, or Xbox somehow gets a significant lead both worldwide and in Japan.

They can rely on good sales wordwide but going from selling 20+ million consoles to not even half that does have a significant effect. I mean games sell exponentially better on hot selling hardware and they're losing millions of software sales because of it. I think it's worth the effort to get a good business going in Japan.

fiendcode · Dec 1, 2019

Chris1964 said:
PlayStation awards are at Tuesday and, going by last year, PS4 December deals for Japan will be announced tomorrow.

Get ready for a FFVII holiday bundle.

Oregano · Dec 1, 2019

fiendcode said:
They most likely moneyhatted MHW, FFVII and maybe even to get DQXI back onboard. I wouldn't be surprised if there were incentives flying on the lower end too for things like Judgement, Sakura Wars and so on.

They might have needed to pay to get MHW and DQXI on PlayStation(And FFVII to be timed exclusive/not on Xbox) but they won't have to for the next entries, those games will be on PS5. They definitely don't need to bribe Nagoshi for exclusive games though...

Chris1964 · Dec 1, 2019

fiendcode said:
Get ready for a FFVII holiday bundle.

If FFVII bundle is the big holiday deal it will do nothing.

I expect something similar to last year.

ItWasMeantToBe19 · Dec 1, 2019

Okay so FF7R is going to sell 15m+

Monster Hunter World sold 12m+

Probably don't need moneyhats for the sequels to be on PS5.

Could Capcom also make money doing a Monster Hunter spinoff on Switch? Yeah probably. Do they have the staff for it? Doesn't look like it.

fiendcode · Dec 1, 2019

K Samedi said:
They can rely on good sales wordwide but going from selling 20+ million consoles to not even half that does have a significant effect. I mean games sell exponentially better on hot selling hardware and they're losing millions of software sales because of it. I think it's worth the effort to get a good business going in Japan.

PlayStation's domestic collapse has already led to every mid size and small JP pub (bar Falcom) to move to Nintendo multiplatform support. There's already an impact here, where Nintendo's still struggling is with the handful of large pubs who generally target overseas first.

HaremKing · Dec 1, 2019

Hoping for a 20-22k yen slim with God of War, Last of Us Remastered, and Horizon Complete Edition like we got here in the US. Let's see if Sony actually puts forth a minutia of effort for Japan holiday sales this year.

Sandfox · Dec 1, 2019

Oregano said:
Okay but with the PS5 what is there left for them to moneyhat?

Story of Seasons, Rune Factory, Shin Megami Tensei.

Those are the biggest franchises currently on/announced for Switch and not PlayStation. None of them are worth moneyhatting.

Sony likely gives these guys incentives to keep them loyal even if they already support the platform.

ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
Okay so FF7R is going to sell 15m+

Monster Hunter World sold 12m+

Probably don't need moneyhats for the sequels to be on PS5.

Could Capcom also make money doing a Monster Hunter spinoff on Switch? Yeah probably. Do they have the staff for it? Doesn't look like it.

Capcom has more than one MH team from what I remember. If they really wanted to they could put out something.

Lelouch0612 · Dec 1, 2019

Oregano said:
Okay but with the PS5 what is there left for them to moneyhat?

Story of Seasons, Rune Factory, Shin Megami Tensei.

Those are the biggest franchises currently on/announced for Switch and not PlayStation. None of them are worth moneyhatting.

ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
Okay so FF7R is going to sell 15m+

Monster Hunter World sold 12m+

Probably don't need moneyhats for the sequels to be on PS5.

Could Capcom also make money doing a Monster Hunter spinoff on Switch? Yeah probably. Do they have the staff for it? Doesn't look like it.

You can moneyhat to get new franchises and to keep them.

If it worked well for everyone then there is little reason for 3rd party publishers to get nothing out of it.

The success can give an ever better leverage to the 3rd party publishers.

Deleted member 51691 · Dec 1, 2019

Sandfox said:
Capcom has more than one MH team from what I remember. If they really wanted to they could put out something.

I thought the two MH teams merged to ship MHW? I wonder if there are even two distinct MH teams anymore or there is only one team working on MHW2

ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
I'm sure if they had multiple Monster Hunter teams, they would be releasing multiple Monster Hunter games.

If there's nothing new by mid next year, going to guess they're just focused on making Monster Hunter World sequels.

There is still that 'MH Next' tease from the director of MH Generations

ItWasMeantToBe19 · Dec 1, 2019

Sandfox said:
Sony likely gives these guys incentives to keep them loyal even if they already support the platform.

Capcom has more than one MH team from what I remember. If they really wanted to they could put out something.

I'm sure if they had multiple Monster Hunter teams, they would be releasing multiple Monster Hunter games.

If there's nothing new by mid next year, going to guess they're just focused on making Monster Hunter World sequels.

Deleted member 8196 · Dec 1, 2019

fiendcode said:
They most likely moneyhatted MHW, FFVII and maybe even to get DQXI back onboard. I wouldn't be surprised if there were incentives flying on the lower end too for things like Judgement, Sakura Wars and so on.

I still think MHW being a PS4 exclusive in Asia was just money wasted for Sony, Xbox One is non existent and PC got released WW digitally, even in Asia, including Japan.

FF7R is 100% a moneyhat tho, if Square Enix was able to get FF XV and KH 3 day on date on Xbox, they could've done the same for FF7R, and even in this case, FF7 is 100% going to sell more on PlayStation so yes, don't know why they needed a moneyhat for that.

ItWasMeantToBe19 · Dec 1, 2019

stealthyfrog said:
I thought the two MH teams merged to ship MHW? I wonder if there are even two distinct MH teams anymore or there is only one team working on MHW2

There is still that 'MH Next' tease from the director of MH Generations

We will see within the next 7 months!

ggx2ac · Dec 1, 2019

Oregano said:
Okay but with the PS5 what is there left for them to moneyhat?

Story of Seasons, Rune Factory, Shin Megami Tensei.

Those are the biggest franchises currently on/announced for Switch and not PlayStation. None of them are worth moneyhatting.

Stop... Those are not franchises that appeal to the 16-34 year old male demographic and they're not even AAA games.

Sony goes after AAA games to get some kind of exclusivity such as dlc content because AAA games sell millions. They're not going to do that with SoS and RF....

K Samedi · Dec 1, 2019

fiendcode said:
PlayStation's domestic collapse has already led to every mid size and small JP pub (bar Falcom) to move to Nintendo multiplatform support. There's already an impact here, where Nintendo's still struggling is with the handful of large pubs who generally target overseas first.

It's not about Nintendo or anything like that, it's about getting good support right from the start. That's quite a challenge but every Japanese publisher will benefit from it if they support PS5 with big games right from the start. It will kick start a healthy market.

Oregano · Dec 1, 2019

Lelouch0612 said:
You can moneyhat to get new franchises and to keep them.

If it worked well for everyone then there is little reason for 3rd party publishers to get nothing out of it.

The success can give an ever better leverage to the 3rd party publishers.

To keep them where though?

Sony will provide co-marketting because it's mutually beneficial but they're not at any risk of losing that support.

Even looking at what fiendcode was saying with smaller/mid tier games releasing on Switch as well it's had negligible impact on PlayStation, those games are still on PS4; they lead development on PS4, all of the promo material is the PS4 version, they sell most on PS4. A lot of them are announced in Dengeki PlayStation and don't mention the Switch at all in their initial reveal.

The most significant IP to go multiplatform was God Eater, and they still got it as a timed exclusive and the IP is now dead in all likelihood.

Oregano · Dec 1, 2019

ggx2ac said:
Stop... Those are not franchises that appeal to the 16-34 year old male demographic and they're not even AAA games.

Sony goes after AAA games to get some kind of exclusivity such as dlc content because AAA games sell millions. They're not going to do that with SoS and RF....

That's exactly my point. The only franchises Sony doesn't have now are pretty much irrelevant to them, and of the one's they have no one is going to jump ship away from them any time soon.

robjoh · Dec 1, 2019

If sony is interested in growing its audience in Japan I would say that PlayStation 5 needs new IPs not follow ups from IPs they already have. Yes Final fantasy, monster hunter and more is a necessary base to stand on. However I don't see how these IPs will result in PS5 ending with a higher numbers than PS4.

If Sony is interested in Japan for the sake of market share in Japan they need new IPs that sell to the mass market in Japan.

I am not really sure if Sony cares or have the teams that can deliver the IPs they need.

K Samedi · Dec 1, 2019

Oregano said:
That's exactly my point. The only franchises Sony doesn't have now are pretty much irrelevant to them, and of the one's they have no one is going to jump ship away from them any time soon.

That's not the reason they do low numbers in Japan though. Its the timing that's important. The big games come too late. Nintendo have their own big games and that's been an advantage for them but Sony relies a lot more on third parties. Western devs deliver on that front but Japanese devs have been missing the boat in Japan the last few generations.

Gotdatmoney · Dec 1, 2019

The only threat to third party support in Japan for Sony is if Switch 2 is able to get PS5/Scarlett ports with relative ease. That's about it and even then all that does is make a few more games multiplat.

Nothing is going to stop the PS5 from getting all the major franchises.

ILikeFeet · Dec 1, 2019

Gotdatmoney said:
The only threat to third party support in Japan for Sony is if Switch 2 is able to get PS5/Scarlett ports with relative ease. That's about it and even then all that does is make a few more games multiplat.

Nothing is going to stop the PS5 from getting all the major franchises.

the Switch 2 may be a ways off, like 2022 at the earliest. if Sony can't establish momentum, then exclusives or not won't matter all that much

Gotdatmoney · Dec 1, 2019

For Japan? Sure but Japan is a lost cause for them. They'll never do the necessary things to make their systems big in Japan again. They just want all the major franchises and they have them all and those franchises aren't going anywhere.

KillerMan91 · Dec 1, 2019

Stygr said:
I still think MHW being a PS4 exclusive in Asia was just money wasted for Sony, Xbox One is non existent and PC got released WW digitally, even in Asia, including Japan.

FF7R is 100% a moneyhat tho, if Square Enix was able to get FF XV and KH 3 day on date on Xbox, they could've done the same for FF7R, and even in this case, FF7 is 100% going to sell more on PlayStation so yes, don't know why they needed a moneyhat for that.

I guess the moneyhat happened very early this gen (or even late last gen). Back then we didn't know how dominant PS4 will end to be against Xbox One.

Oregano · Dec 1, 2019

K Samedi said:
That's not the reason they do low numbers in Japan though. Its the timing that's important. The big games come too late. Nintendo have their own big games and that's been an advantage for them but Sony relies a lot more on third parties. Western devs deliver on that front but Japanese devs have been missing the boat in Japan the last few generations.

I acknowledge your point about missing software sales but I think the costs of getting to that point outweigh the benefits.

Gotdatmoney said:
For Japan? Sure but Japan is a lost cause for them. They'll never do the necessary things to make their systems big in Japan again. They just want all the major franchises and they have them all and those franchises aren't going anywhere.

Yup, the only scenario where Sony needs to worry is if some core franchise(whether existing or new) releases only on Switch and blows up in a massive way. The odds of that happening are close to nil.

ggx2ac · Dec 1, 2019

Oregano said:
That's exactly my point. The only franchises Sony doesn't have now are pretty much irrelevant to them, and of the one's they have no one is going to jump ship away from them any time soon.

You called them the biggest franchises on Switch that aren't on PlayStation. They're not even million sellers so there's no point mentioning them in the first place.

If you actually wanted to mention a third party IP that sold something significant like a million units on Switch but it isn't on PS4 then that's Octopath Traveler.

Deleted member 37233 · Dec 1, 2019

ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
Okay so FF7R is going to sell 15m+

The entire thing? Sure, no question! Just part one? I'm really not sure about that.

Media Create Sales: Week 47, 2019 (Nov 18 - Nov 24)

One Winged Slayer

DF Deet Master

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User requested account closure

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SalesEra Genius

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One Winged Slayer

One Winged Slayer

One Winged Slayer

SalesEra Genius

User requested account closure

Sales Heaven or Sales Hell?

One Winged Slayer

One Winged Slayer

DF Deet Master

One Winged Slayer

Sales Heaven or Sales Hell?