Media Create Sales: Week 48, 2017 (Nov 27 - Dec 03)

sfortunato · Dec 12, 2017

Laplasakos said:
I didn't said anything wrong and i am not spinning anything. Selling and shipping is different.

Yes. You wrote:

"i am pretty sure that 4.1m figure includes numbers from other territories too"

"(since the 4.1m number from Capcom's site includes sales from other territories like Korea)"

Regardless whether you like sell-through numbers more, we were talking about the 4.1m data point disclosed by Capcom. 4.1m refers to Japanese sales as stated by Capcom---I provided you evidence on this (FY14 financial report). Hence you were factually wrong.

Laplasakos said:
Yours selling doesn't mean anything. It's selling better.

Yeah but my argument is that companies were expecting PS4 to sell a little bit better to sustain sales of multi-million franchises. I don't remember how much more PS4 is selling versus PS3. If it is in the range of 300-400k more that doesn't mean much in the grand scheme of things. Don't you think Square Enix and Capcom went full force on PS4 expecting do more than PS3 in Japan in order to sustain higher sales for multi-million franchises? Seems pretty reasonable to me.

Deleted member 1413 · Dec 12, 2017

Good on Nintendo for selling 10M units. Hoping they can ship more like they're promising.

Still nuts that it's hard to find after all this time

Principate · Dec 12, 2017

Laplasakos said:
Now that's pedantic point. Also, you seem quite anxious and interested to quote my worthless entire point.

Btw, hilarious how you totally choosed to not respond to my previous post about you. Only strengths the fact that i was right about you (like always ;) )

Oh i see you are admitting it. Shocking, coming from you.

Yours selling doesn't mean anything. It's selling better.
The end.

I didn't said anything wrong and i am not spinning anything. Selling and shipping is different.

Oh you mean that post about console wars and other nonsense about perceived slights?

Let me tell you a little secret I don't pay much attention to the MHW arguments that go on in this thread for which there's dozens off. It's the same old boring argument that I try to generally ignore as I seen them literally hundreds of times before over the year's in these threads. There's nothing new. Occasionally I'll engage since I pop in here for general sales discussion but if your asking why I don't call out every single inaccuracy let's just say I don't find it important.

Why I called you out here is because your a prolific poster on here and I'd rather not have to deal with posters that needless entrench themselves on the most meaningless of arguements. That's why my posts focused on trying to get you to move on.

test_account · Dec 12, 2017

silpheed-mcd said:
https://i.imgur.com/Dpz7x8W.gif

Did Capcom say something about that the Switch sales would be very low? Honestly wondering.

fiendcode · Dec 12, 2017

Fdkn said:
As we don't have project goals for MHW, it will always be what the posters wanted them to be for their self-fulfilling prophecy

--

Those transitions were a decade ago, the players remaining have already adapted to the current landscape. If a project fails, it fails, but it's not because 'HD' is killing the company. It's 2017.

Except we do have a stated goal from the series producer himself: global audience growth. Capcom being strategically gun-shy about sales projections for the first time in history didn't keep that one from slipping through.

I said after effect for a reason, those transitions had an impact that lasted over a decade. Half a decade ago THQ was still in business and EA was still publishing 20-30 games annually, the industry didn't right itself overnight.

ILikeFeet · Dec 12, 2017

test_account said:
Did Capcom say something about that the Switch sales would be very low? Honestly wondering.

people are using their lack of support despite their longstanding knowledge and influence of the system as evidence of Capcom's lack of faith in the system.

Laplasakos · Dec 12, 2017

sfortunato said:
Yes. You wrote:

"i am pretty sure that 4.1m figure includes numbers from other territories too"

"(since the 4.1m number from Capcom's site includes sales from other territories like Korea)"

Regardless whether you like sell-through numbers more, we were talking about the 4.1m data point disclosed by Capcom. 4.1m refers to Japanese sales as stated by Capcom---I provided you evidence on this (FY14 financial report). Hence you were factually wrong.

No i am not wrong. You posted a shipped number.

sfortunato said:
Yeah but my argument is that companies were expecting PS4 to sell a little bit better to sustain sales of multi-million franchises. I don't remember how much more PS4 is selling versus PS3. If it is in the range of 300-400k more that doesn't mean much in the grand scheme of things. Don't you think Square Enix and Capcom went full force on PS4 expecting do more than PS3 in Japan in order to sustain higher sales for multi-million franchises? Seems pretty reasonable to me.

Do you have any evidence?

Aostia82 · Dec 12, 2017

ILikeFeet said:
people are using their lack of support despite their longstanding knowledge and influence of the system as evidence of Capcom's lack of faith in the system.

aaaand...?
should we look at their lack of support as hint of confidence in the system?

I'm confused :|

cw_sasuke · Dec 12, 2017

CosmicBolt said:
After ps3 and wiiu did the jp publishers seriously think that ps4 was going to do any better. If jp publishers had done proper market research they would have known the decline of home consoles in japan and that ps4(being home console) could not have turned the tide .

The Ps3 had some stronger mindshare competition because DS/Wii and PSP were blowing up which resulted in jpn devs double checking every decision in terms of HD developments. With the PS4 though every jpn publisher was on board in terms of HD development and big guns like FFXV, KH3,MGS,Persona,DQ, MH etc. are all on PS4. Vita and WiiU werent nearly as successful as their predecessor and event the 3DS didnt get much 3rdParty love compared to the DS - especially when you consider SEs output.

The PS4 was relatively cheaper than the PS4 and has or is about to recieve all major jpn 3rdParty franchises....i think its fair to say that some publishers might have hoped for a more essential improvement compared to the PS3.

RailWays · Dec 12, 2017

Hero of Legend said:
Get ready for some BIG Switch HW numbers this month:

https://www.resetera.com/threads/switch-sells-10-million-units-ww-in-9-months.10758/

I'm ready for some 200k+ weeks

Charamiwa · Dec 12, 2017

I love these threads but you guys argue about the most pointless shit sometimes.

ggx2ac · Dec 12, 2017

MHW will have paid DLC

"Paid content that does not affect game progression is also planned, such as outfits for the receptionist."
Read more at https://gematsu.com/2017/12/monster...-bounties-research-quests#Dmjt3wbqjVT7bPv1.99

Buy outfits for the receptionist...

cw_sasuke · Dec 12, 2017

ggx2ac said:
MHW will have paid DLC

Buy outfits for the receptionist...

Now thats more like it - they wanna run it as a GAAS like Overwatch so they need that additional revenue stream after the initial high sales. Interested to see how much they will offer.

CeroMiedo · Dec 12, 2017

Chris1964 said:
It's not unreasonable to say that every publisher probably expected PS4 to do better than it has in Japan.

This has been my point the entire time regardless of japan centric titles that the ps4 has been getting so far

Eolz · Dec 12, 2017

Good stuff for Switch WW, looking forward to the next shipments this holiday.

ggx2ac said:
MHW will have paid DLC

Buy outfits for the receptionist...

Nothing surprising, but good to finally see a confirmation.
The preorder DLC has shown that this was a given, there'll be cosmetix DLC throughout the game's life to compensate the budget, same as the price being higher than previous games.

schuelma · Dec 12, 2017

ggx2ac said:
MHW will have paid DLC

Buy outfits for the receptionist...

If that's the extent of it, kudos to Capcom.

test_account · Dec 12, 2017

ILikeFeet said:
people are using their lack of support despite their longstanding knowledge and influence of the system as evidence of Capcom's lack of faith in the system.

I see, fair enough. I dont really see why Capcom gets highlighted over this. Its not like other publishers brought every of their game to the Switch. I guess maybe its mainly the choice of MHW is what triggered it.

Psycho_Mantis · Dec 12, 2017

Its funny how many claim that Capcom or SE expected PS4 to sell better in the JP market with little to no evidence at all. If anything, the majority of Capcom's and SE's support for the PS4 has been driven by it excelling in the global market (they've even said this themselves). I'm sure both of these companies are aware of the decline of the home console market in JP, SE mentioning this with FFXV, and besides a notable collapse from PS3 I wouldn't see their plans changing. In reality PS4 has managed to stay ahead of PS4 and even beaten the expectations SE had for it concerning DQ11.

Alrus · Dec 12, 2017

test_account said:
I see, fair enough. I dont really see why Capcom gets highlighted over this. Its not like other publishers brought every of their game to the Switch. I guess maybe its mainly the choice of MHW is what triggered it.

I'm sure MHW is part of it but personally it's more about the random collections that would have cost peanuts to port as well as the Okami port that really cements their distrust of the system.

Tbh I'm as confused by Bandai's handling of the console too.

As for MHW I think wanted to expand in the west is fine and I think the game will do okay (it sure looks like a fun time and I can't wait to play it on PC) but I question Capcom seemingly abandoning another revenue stream completely by leaving handhelds behind(which thinking about it kinda confirms the fact that they thought there would be no successful handhelds left in Japan).

Lite_Agent · Dec 12, 2017

ggx2ac said:
MHW will have paid DLC

Buy outfits for the receptionist...

There's also free additional monsters, which is interesting as I'm sure they've never done that before. Makes likelihood of MHWG even less likely.

***

Wii U total sales: 13.56 million units
Switch total sales: 10m as of December 10th

Looks like it's going to outsell it before the end of the year worldwide.

Laplasakos · Dec 12, 2017

Psycho_Mantis said:
Its funny how many claim that Capcom or SE expected PS4 to sell better in the JP market with little to no evidence at all. If anything, the majority of Capcom's and SE's support for the PS4 has been driven by it excelling in the global market (they've even said this themselves). I'm sure both of these companies are aware of the decline of the home console market in JP, SE mentioning this with FFXV, and besides a notable collapse from PS3 I wouldn't see their plans changing. In reality PS4 has managed to stay ahead of PS4 and even beaten the expectations SE had for it concerning DQ11.

How dare you, pointing the obvious here.

fiendcode · Dec 12, 2017

Psycho_Mantis said:
Its funny how many claim that Capcom or SE expected PS4 to sell better in the JP market with little to no evidence at all. If anything, the majority of Capcom's and SE's support for the PS4 has been driven by it excelling in the global market (they've even said this themselves). I'm sure both of these companies are aware of the decline of the home console market in JP, SE mentioning this with FFXV, and besides a notable collapse from PS3 I wouldn't see their plans changing. In reality PS4 has managed to stay ahead of PS4 and even beaten the expectations SE had for it concerning DQ11.

The evidence is the level of support, including the returns of DQ and MH. Global target is a nice pivot for the platform though.

Mark H · Dec 12, 2017

It's a bit weird to think that receptionist outfit has always been a part of ingame contents and now it's being moved over to paid DLC, and extra monsters has always been a part of G expansion and now it's being moved over to free update.

Deleted member 2791 · Dec 12, 2017

It's true that only Capcom could be insane enough to bet on a console they expected to sell only 6 millions in four years.

Laplasakos · Dec 12, 2017

fiendcode said:
The evidence is the level of support, including the returns of DQ and MH. Global target is a nice pivot for the platform though.

Then why PSP never got a DQ game (excluding the Itadaki game early in it's life)?

jariw · Dec 12, 2017

RailWays said:
I'm ready for some 200k+ weeks

This page seems to indicate that December will be Nintendo's largest shipment month. How much did they deliver during March?
https://www.nintendo.co.jp/corporate/release/2017/171212.html

Zedark · Dec 12, 2017

jariw said:
This page seems to indicate that December will be Nintendo's largest shipment month. How much did they deliver during March?
https://www.nintendo.co.jp/corporate/release/2017/171212.html

Only 565k sold through, I believe they shipped 600k (meaning 35k were in transit, Switch is and has always been severely supply constrained in Japan).

Eolz · Dec 12, 2017

Laplasakos said:
Then why PSP never got a DQ game (excluding the Itadaki game early in it's life)?

Because DQ games have typically been exclusives going for the biggest platform.

schuelma · Dec 12, 2017

As someone who enjoys and partakes in the really small, irrelevant arguments in this thread, even I can't figure out what the hell people are arguing about.

This generation seems pretty much set with the only (somewhat) question mark of how much support Switch ends up receiving.

Oregano · Dec 12, 2017

Laplasakos said:
Then why PSP never got a DQ game (excluding the Itadaki game early in it's life)?

The PSP was up against the DS. Whereas stuff like DQ and MH has moved to the PS4 with the expectation that it would have no serious competition.

Laplasakos · Dec 12, 2017

Eolz said:
Because DQ games have typically been exclusives going for the biggest platform.

Wii got 4 different DQ games and it wasn't the biggest platform.

Chris1964 · Dec 12, 2017

CosmicBolt said:
After ps3 and wiiu did the jp publishers seriously think that ps4 was going to do any better. If jp publishers had done proper market research they would have known the decline of home consoles in japan and that ps4(being home console) could not have turned the tide .

At some point there were Japanese publishers seeing PS4 as the one and only future in Japan. It's not accident 3DS got secondary third party support at last years despite being the clear market leader and Vita treated as the last choice for them when it was usually the first for customers. They adjust now but It's obvious they had high expectations from PS4 in Japan.

sfortunato · Dec 12, 2017

Laplasakos said:
No i am not wrong. You posted a shipped number.

Yes. And you wrote that said shipped number (4.1m) was including "other territories":

"i am pretty sure that 4.1m figure includes numbers from other territories too"

"(since the 4.1m number from Capcom's site includes sales from other territories like Korea)"

(these are you sentences). As shown by Capcom financial report, 4.1m only include Japan. You wrote that "4.1m number from Capcom's site includes sales from other territories like Korea" which is factually wrong. Accept this and move on.

Laplasakos said:
Do you have any evidence?

I don't. Indeed, this is my impression as stated before. My impression is that gaming companies were expecting PS4 to perform better than PS3 in Japan, at least to sustain multi-million sellers. I don't see gaming companies to support a console with franchises that are used to sell 3.5-4m and then expect the console to not support those numbers. This is common sense in business. Unless there were other incentives or reasons to do so. Capcom might have expected a huge growth in the West but not Square Enix and indeed they start developing DQXI on 3DS as well.

This view is also supported by other users:

Chris1964 said:
At some point there were Japanese publishers seeing PS4 as the one and only future in Japan. It's not accident 3DS got secondary third party support at last years despite being the clear market leader and Vita treated as the last choice for them when it was usually the first for customers. They adjust now but It's obvious they had high expectations from PS4 in Japan.

And is totally reasonable.

Laplasakos · Dec 12, 2017

sfortunato said:
Yes. And you wrote that said shipped number (4.1m) was including "other territories":

"i am pretty sure that 4.1m figure includes numbers from other territories too"

"(since the 4.1m number from Capcom's site includes sales from other territories like Korea)"

(these are you sentences). As shown by Capcom financial report, 4.1m only include Japan. You wrote that "4.1m number from Capcom's site includes sales from other territories like Korea" which is factually wrong. Accept this and move on.

Nope. That was before knowing that 4.1m is a shipped number since you never specified.

sfortunato said:
I don't. Indeed, this is my impression as stated before. My impression is that gaming companies were expecting PS4 to perform better than PS3 in Japan, at least to sustain multi-million sellers. I don't see gaming companies to support a console with franchises that are used to sell 3.5-4m and then expect the console to not support those numbers. This is common sense in business. Unless there were other incentives or reasons to do so. Capcom might have expected a huge growth in the West but not Square Enix and indeed they start developing DQXI on 3DS as well.

Good. Accept this and move on.

And in general, your arguments are running in circles. You are blatantly repeating the same things unless someone agrees with your argument.

Fularu · Dec 12, 2017

Laplasakos said:
Wii got 4 different DQ games and it wasn't the biggest platform.

And was market leader

sfortunato · Dec 12, 2017

Laplasakos said:
Nope. That was before knowing that 4.1m is a shipped number since you never specified.

Yeah but you wrote that 4.1m included other territories which is wrong regardless of whether you believed something no one stated or implied. In the best case scenario you were sure about something you didn't know; in the worst case scenario, you were making up a fact just to prove your point.

Laplasakos said:
Good. Accept this and move on.

And in general, your arguments are running in circles. You are blatantly repeating the same things unless someone agrees with your argument.

Yes, but we're discussing about the topic. We can have different ideas on something for which we can't have evidence (unlike sales numbers---these are known and public).

What led you to believe that gaming companies were expecting PS4 to perform as PS3 while developing their biggest franchises from the platform?

Laplasakos · Dec 12, 2017

Fularu said:
And was market leader

In Japan? Did you forgot about DS? Don't tell me that you will now seperate home consoles and portables because back in the old forum you had a different opinion (and don't dare it to deny it just because i am not willing to return to that place and find your posts only to save face. Some of us still have a good memory and are firm on their opinions)

casiopao · Dec 12, 2017

Laplasakos said:
Then why PSP never got a DQ game (excluding the Itadaki game early in it's life)?

Because PSP is doing pathetic outside of Japan and crushed by the crazy amount of piracy while DS and Wii is still doing really at that time?

Gotdatmoney · Dec 12, 2017

MHW is out in less than 2 months and there is still no units forecast. There isn't any real point in speculation past this about what Capcom expects. They are intentionally making that hard to know, why are we at each others throats here?

Laplasakos · Dec 12, 2017

casiopao said:
Because PSP is doing pathetic outside of Japan and crushed by the crazy amount of piracy while DS and Wii is still doing really at that time?

Yeah because the DQ Wii games sold so well in west, or some of the DS games that a PSP game would do much worse.
Pretty sure that SE didn't greenlight a DQ game for PSP because of how it was doing in west, instead of looking the numbers in Japan. This makes a lot of sense...

Deleted member 5167 · Dec 12, 2017

Fdkn said:
So that's what I'm saying? 5M (the number people are speculating with) with a 50% increase in price for every market outside Japan wouldn't be a number for breaking even,it would be a ton of profit.

And that's without higher margins from bigger digital share, premium editions, etc.

Unless we start having real budgetting data from publishers, the HD cost boggeyman is only used as damage control for forum wars.

Generational cost increases are a fact, they are not a conspiracy theory.
They have historically always been expected to double a previous generation, but in practice have always been far more, often 3-4x a previous generations budget.

I mean, there is literally a ton of historical evidence that this is true, and zero indication that anything would have changed that this generation.
If anything the circumstantial evidence suggests the costs hike this gen has been terrifying to publishers.

Eolz · Dec 12, 2017

Laplasakos said:
In Japan? Did you forgot about DS? Don't tell me that you will now seperate home consoles and portables because back in the old forum you had a different opinion (and don't dare it to deny it just because i am not willing to return to that place and find your posts only to save face. Some of us still have a good memory and are firm on their opinions)

The Wii was market leader for home consoles and was used when the DS wasn't powerful enough for the experience they wanted to provide, or there for local multiplayer.
As we've seen with MHTri.
Can you stop bringing up the old forum for no reason btw?

Laplasakos said:
Yeah because the DQ Wii games sold so well in west, or some of the DS games that a PSP game would do much worse.
Pretty sure that SE didn't greenlight a DQ game for PSP because of how it was doing in west, instead of looking the numbers in Japan. This makes a lot of sense...

Which DQ Wii games were localized in the west?

Fdkn · Dec 12, 2017

You didn't understand any of what I was saying.

Increased cost are a fact. How the people use or diminish them as arguments depending on the game is what I'm talking about, and they make these discussions worthless.

Vena · Dec 12, 2017

Mark H said:
It's a bit weird to think that receptionist outfit has always been a part of ingame contents and now it's being moved over to paid DLC, and extra monsters has always been a part of G expansion and now it's being moved over to free update.

Depends on what 'extra monsters' means. You had event mash-ups in the old titles and they are 'extras' but it uses pre-existing assets.

Either way, it looks like they're going to monetize skins while doing the 'free map packs' method of deployment.

CeroMiedo · Dec 12, 2017

Laplasakos said:
Yeah because the DQ Wii games sold so well in west, or some of the DS games that a PSP game would do much worse.
Pretty sure that SE didn't greenlight a DQ game for PSP because of how it was doing in west, instead of looking the numbers in Japan. This makes a lot of sense...

I mean you could say the same thing about what happened to DQXI development to DQIX and Xon the nds and wii too,both console were during gangbuster in Japan during that time especially with the nds being destined to be the market leader,it made sense that they greenlit DQIX on the nds and X on the wii,with the exception that they didn't have to build other versions for the psp and ps3 for damage control like DQXI for the 3ds(and the future switch version)

Gotdatmoney · Dec 12, 2017

Dr Wily said:
Generational cost increases are a fact, they are not a conspiracy theory.
They have historically always been expected to double a previous generation, but in practice have always been far more, often 3-4x a previous generations budget.

I mean, there is literally a ton of historical evidence that this is true, and zero indication that anything would have changed that this generation.
If anything the circumstantial evidence suggests the costs hike this gen has been terrifying to publishers.

There are other factors to generational costs increasing besides straight development. I wouldn't expect from PS3->PS4 to have double the cost just due to technology. Part of this is that with new monetization methods, bigger digital storefronts and the move to lesser games with higher quality and longe shelf lives game costs have increased due to the market. But that is elative to achieving a broader goal.

I don't think it actually costs 3-4x last gen to make a game.

silpheed-mcd · Dec 12, 2017

test_account said:
I guess maybe its mainly the choice of MHW is what triggered it.

No, there are others problems between capcom/the switch/nintendo/switch players and before the MHW announcement

January 2017
Resident evil VII on Switch? They laugh (8mn05s):
http://www.gameblog.fr/news/65268-resident-evil-7-realite-virtuelle-violence-inspirations-notr

"Resident evil 7 will be released on switch?"

Koshi Nakanishi: *laughs* are you sure you want to ruin your last question on this? *laughs* Come on, we invite you to ask another question.

RE VII impossible for the Switch? But, in the 3DS first year, street fighter IV, magic :p

April 2017, MvC:I
"Kind of laughed off a Switch version"

Hidden content

October 2017
Capcom Co. , a software publisher famous for the "Resident Evil" and "Monster Hunter" franchises, has released for the Switch only some older titles that it had released to other game consoles. A company spokeswoman said that is normal procedure for third-party software developers because there isn't enough time to make new games for a console within a year of its launch.
https://www.resetera.com/threads/ca...-games-for-a-system-in-less-than-a-year.2511/

Resident evil revelations, 3DS first year, magic, again :p

You can find more Capcom/Switch problem examples if you search.

There is a Capcom/Switch/Nintendo problem , I don't know which one(s) but capcom has a very "weird" speech as soon as it talks about the switch, MHW is just another problem among others, I hope that in the future it will improve between capcom and the switch. For now, bad start.

Umibozu · Dec 12, 2017

Deleted member 21 · Dec 12, 2017

Will re-open the thread soon.

Deleted member 21 · Dec 12, 2017

Sigh.

This thread is NOT a venue to boost your self-esteem by proving - with the worst arguments and behaviour possible - that you're right about something and the person you are debating with is not. While some of the recent MCS threads turned out fine, this one is another one that has gone wrong once again and I'm tired to see this thread popping up in the reports section just because some of you - who apparently think they are not transparent when it comes to their motiviation to post here - did some dumb shit again.

I don't think that a back and forth between users is an issue per se, but if it becomes this toxic it is. People are interested in debates, not in these seemingly never ending contests of platform fans throwing shit at each other, subtle or not. It's frankly speaking embarrassing and has nothing to do with what the thread is about.

Enough with posting as if you know it all. Stop writing your opinions like they are statements.

Also, from now on we'll hand out longer bans than usual in this thread.

Carry on

Media Create Sales: Week 48, 2017 (Nov 27 - Dec 03)

DF Deet Master

One Winged Slayer

Sales Heaven or Sales Hell?

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One Winged Slayer

SalesEra Genius

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Community Resettler

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