This has seen an incredible decline. It would be incredibly risky for bigger productions not to consider the west when developing titles.
Would Final Fantasy even be able to exist? Resident Evil?
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Media Create Sales: Week 50, 2018 (Dec 10 - Dec 16)
- Thread starter Chris1964
- Start date
This has seen an incredible decline. It would be incredibly risky for bigger productions not to consider the west when developing titles.
Would Final Fantasy even be able to exist? Resident Evil?
I understand. Its true that it was something out of the ordinary in that regards, indeed.
While true, the Switch has some of the biggest games in the industry as well. I think its only us who really care about if a game is 1st or 3rd party in terms of sales. When it comes to buying the games, i dont think many care about if its 1st or 3rd party.
Considering the global market doesn't mean developers are somehow forsaking Japan or anything like that.
They would if they didn't target such high technical capabilities tbh. But that's the market reality, of course.
Designing a game with a different hook/appeal to attempt to expand your audience to different tastes is exactly that
Would I be right in saying a huge factor in the decline of the market from the halcyon days of the PS2, PSP, DS etc is the rise in mobile gaming? I wasn't a member on the old forum but I remember I used to read regular updates by one of the mods on mobile revenue in Japan and it was huge.
One of Sony's mobile companies brought in something like $1.8BN in revenue from just a single game last year. That's huge.
Taking out the distinction between 1st party and 3rd party isn't really related to the argument that the support in general for the PS4 has not helped its momentum in Japan at all. Switch has some of the biggest games of the industry, PS4 has all the others.
Great benefit of not trying too hard to win the west is not needing to make risky big productions.
FF and Bio would definitely exist, FF would likely be less ARPG and Bio would likely not as graphically impressive. And 7 probably wouldn't exist.
Right on the money, we seen it before as well. With the early HD era, where Japanese companies tried catering towards western output on the HD Twins, and it backfired to a degree. Thankfully the PSP and DS existed for the traditional landscape for the market. Hopefully companies like Platinum games that do get how to mix both styles don't get caught in eventual decline.
I just wish companies like Square-Enix would remember how to make mid tier titles again themselves. It can prove to be very healthy for the market and the titles seem to be more focused on what Japanese market would want, having titles that are designed around reaching 200,000-500,000 in Japan that have budget accordingly. (Similar to Octopath Traveler).
If a title has love and care put into it, it will also sell in the west, without needing to pander to the west.
are you really equating someone arguing about the decline of japanese market from his perspective as a local with far-right discourse ?
But isn't that what's already happened in Japan? Much of the past success has moved from consoles to mobile phone gaming. The climate in Japan has changed and there are other options for Japanese beyond traditional consoles to suit their needs. Hence why it's so important japanese developers and publishers find success WW and not just domestically.
You will be amazed, I know people who don't even play Japanese games that post in Japanese related Sales Thread going rah rah my console is doing great, or Rah rah, domination!
It's not just 'thanks to the PlayStation 4' there's a homogenous x86 multiplatform market. MHW, Nier, Dark Souls etc are on Xbone and in some cases PC as well, and all platforms in that ecosystem benefit from their similarity to each other.
I don't know if I'd go that far, but if they continue to be more and more western tech and western style it would essentially just make their studios western devs that outsource the grunt work to Japan. Might be a nice industry for them but would lose local flair.
That's not actually what homogenity means, but...
Lots of games 'homogenize' toward the US market (eg most shooters). Do you criticise COD/AC/Just Cause/Battlefield for not taking asian tastes into account? Can't games be made with Japanese tastes in mind too, with other markets as secondary?
The global dedicated console market declined too you know... Last generation over 500 million consoles and ~5 billion games were sold. The industry basically halved, and now chases whales with loot boxes (or moved to mobile or PC). The ONLY one that did better than its predecessor is PS4 over PS3, all the rest were down, and even just Sony as a whole is down because PS4+Vita won't match PS3+PSP.
As if high quality productions haven't historically been popular in Japan as well? What does a Resident Evil game look like that can't bet on over 500k sales? A Final Fantasy that at best can scrape by with a million at best? Not like anything we've seen for the last twenty years. They would be unrecognizable.
I'm also not convinced that, you know, many Japanese people don't prefer ARPGs. Though they're probably more open to command based games, sure.
NSW even won't surpass 3DS there. So it's not only about PS4.
Plus, in terms of SW sales PS4 are not so behind of Switch. Some people here like to ignore this fact, though I'm not surprised.
And before you'll start counting HW sales, let's remind you that active audience on Switch is already the same as on PS4, if not bigger, because PS4 is 5 years old console, so not all who purchased this console a few years ago still using it.
Look at Fiscal Year. The gap's only going to grow too.NSW even won't surpass 3DS there. So it's not only about PS4.
Plus, in terms of SW sales PS4 are not so behind of Switch. Some people here like to ignore this fact, though I'm not surprised.
And before you'll start counting HW sales, let's remind you that active audience on Switch is already the same as on PS4, if not bigger, because PS4 is 5 years old console, so not all who purchased this console a few years ago still using it.
there's a definite difference in design between Nintendo and everyone else. Nintendo's more "disney-esque", I would say. all ages and appeals to everyone regardless of culture. there aren't many other studios that attempt this, and many of the PS4's supporters don't go for this, regardless of them aiming for the west or the east.
there's more going on here, but the differences in design philosophy probably also explains why Nintendo dominates their own system's market so much
That's why I said in part, certainly the addition of mobile has contributed to the decline, however at the same time, games that appeal have shown to sell just as good as they did in the 90's and 00's, and in some cases better.
This 100%
If you have coding skills but no interest in making console games, might be best for future generations to work on something else, like apps, databases, web development or smartphone games. I am mostly convinced that people enter the the field because they were inspired.
Sorry, I'm going to go to sleep, it's past 1.
What do you suggest happens then? Sony and MS style their games similar to Nintendo in an attempt to appeal to all? I personally think that would be extremely risky especially for Sony who are seeing huge global success. I wouldn't expect Nintendo to style their games differently to appeal to the audiences they don't currently capture. Nintendo and Sony are on different paths, but both successful ones in their own right.
With the increasing popularity of Western games in Japan I don't think anyone is going to drastically change their ways.
I've no doubt in my mind that PS5 will have the same level of 3rd party support as the PS4, so basically phenomenal. But Sony( and 3rd parties) need to make sure that the biggest games like Final Fantasy, Monster Hunter, Dragon Quest, Persona, big new IP's etc. release as soon as possible on PS5 to make the transition from PS4 smooth and painless. Final Fantasy XVI, Monster Hunter World 2, Project Awakening, that big new IP from Square, Resident Evil 3 Remake... I'm already hyped as fuck!
If you concentrate solely on hw units sold sure. If we talk about revenue gaming division is smashing records pretty much every year. PS4 alone generates more revenue than PS3 and PSP did combined. Last FY Sonys Gaming Division generated more revenue than Nintendo during peak Wii/DS era and this FY is going to be even bigger. Even if we talk about sw sales PS4 alone will probably move more sw than PS3 and PSP combined (it should be hitting about 1 billion sw units any week now). So hw sales are pretty much only metric where PS4 (and Vita) are down compared to last gen.
I wouldn't get your hopes up. There is little evidence Japanese 3rd parties are all of a sudden going to be on the ball with a quick transition to PS5.
Are you telling me with like 4x the releases and a Monster Hunter game, it's still not outpacing Switch in software totals for calendar year 2018? If only I hadn't built that wall you said to build, I would've seen this coming.
Not so much. Plus majority of games are from Nintendo/Pokemon.
So next time when people will ask "where's 3rd party support", I'll post this table again:
And I'll repeat once again- actually looking at Japanese support launch aligned, Switch is comparing favorably to PS4.
Yes really, Switch is leading PS4 by 3m FY. It'll probably end up 5-6m ahead.Not so much. Plus majority of games are from Nintendo/Pokemon.
So next time when people will ask "where's 3rd party support", I'll post this table again:
Well they need to at least be faster than with PS4, that transition was a bit too slow for my taste.
If you look at the best sellers across all platforms the vast majority would be Nintendo/TPC games.
To justify the lack of third party support you need to point to third party software underperforming, not first party software overperforming.
You can't really look at what third parties have released on Switch and argue they should be up there with Nintendo's results.
To justify the lack of third party support you need to point to third party software underperforming, not first party software overperforming.
You can't really look at what third parties have released on Switch and argue they should be up there with Nintendo's results.
Oh, definitely. Games like Final Fantasy VII Remake, Granblue Fantasy, Project Re Fantasy, Project Awakening, Death Stranding, maybe even Nioh 2 are all potential cross gen games.
In terms of revenue the Switch is already way above the 3DS.
And in terms of units sold, wait for the first price cut of the Switch with the first revision and then judge that. The difference in cost between 3DS and Switch at this point is monstrous. Especially if Nintendo decides to offer cheaper Switch models like they did with 2DS to 3DS.
I can tell you one, Octopath Traveler.
Oh wait, it is in there :D .
I would say the statement there was not meant for the other two to copy Nintendo's design and product method, but to demonstrate that a Japanese publisher like Nintendo can appeal to both worldwide and national sensibilities at the same time, and still have success in both markets. Striking a balance with what sort of game can cater to both at once. Which isn't to say other Japanese companies haven't also acheived this, but it's to say focusing worldwide first, local second doesn't have to be the way it goes.
Granted, Nintendo is a huge player and has complete control of their branding on their side, but the philosophy is sound.
There have also been games that still get a majority of their sales outside Japan despite the games being VERY japanese in quirks (NIS is a prime example for recent products).
Everyone but Nintendo will treat Japan like a distant afterthought. Already pretty much the case this time around, but PS5 won't have the luck of launching against the Wii U.
OP
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Another one swan song for 3DS? It has lasted more than DS and Nintendo has already delayed its end too much.
I find it very impressive what Nintendo have done. It's not easy to impress both in Japan and the west and on such a consistent basis. Not many have pulled this off. Maybe Capcom and SE?
I do wish Sony had more success in Japan with at least two IP that could sell over a million domestically. But even if they did, it probably wouldn't boost Ps4 sales much over what they currently sell. They saw potential WW and currently produce the most profitable consoles ever made so I can't be mad at them for making the decision to put the WW market first. After all they are a global brand.
M-C 2014:
PS4 – 2.441.876 <5,67%>
1) Knack - 404.707
2) Metal Gear Solid V: Ground Zeroes - 142.928
3) Yakuza: Ishin! - 137.213
4) Destiny - 124.251
5) Battlefield 4 - 121.054
M-C 2015:
PS4 - 5.114.598 <13,69%>
1) Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain - 432.629
2) Dragon Quest Heroes: The World Tree's Woe and the Blight Below - 348.277
3) Call of Duty: Black Ops III - 266.459
4) Bloodborne - 217.720
5) Star Wars: Battlefront - 192.475
Sony can't afford to repeat this type of support for the first two years of the PS5 in Japan. Especially when in competition with the Switch. If they do it's going to be a steep decline, PS4 benefited in 2014 and 2015 because Wii U was also a colossal failure. But if they don't manage to get big games that appeal to the Japanese audience - there is little doubt that they risk having a similar failure on their record.
PS4 – 2.441.876 <5,67%>
1) Knack - 404.707
2) Metal Gear Solid V: Ground Zeroes - 142.928
3) Yakuza: Ishin! - 137.213
4) Destiny - 124.251
5) Battlefield 4 - 121.054
M-C 2015:
PS4 - 5.114.598 <13,69%>
1) Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain - 432.629
2) Dragon Quest Heroes: The World Tree's Woe and the Blight Below - 348.277
3) Call of Duty: Black Ops III - 266.459
4) Bloodborne - 217.720
5) Star Wars: Battlefront - 192.475
Sony can't afford to repeat this type of support for the first two years of the PS5 in Japan. Especially when in competition with the Switch. If they do it's going to be a steep decline, PS4 benefited in 2014 and 2015 because Wii U was also a colossal failure. But if they don't manage to get big games that appeal to the Japanese audience - there is little doubt that they risk having a similar failure on their record.