Someone must believe them when they say things like that, or everything they claim can be concocted to be lies.
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Media Create Sales: Week 50, 2018 (Dec 10 - Dec 16)
- Thread starter Chris1964
- Start date
Not at all ? It's much harder to transition your flagships franchises and keep them as ambitious as how they were on DS/3DS while still maintaining their fidelity to their crossmedia part than making simple new games from the groundup on new consoles.
Especially when you consider that Ni No Kuni II is entirely funded by Bamco and WKC was published & co-developped by Sony.
I wonder if it was Shade they had on Ares? They did the Wii Strikers games and have a lot of staff from older RPG focused companies (Falcom, Ancient, Quintet, Game Arts, Nextech, NCS, Winds, etc).
Presumably YW4 is sucking out most the internal staff now but yes NNK2 was also mostly internal.
They were late to PS4 and tried to limp along on PS Vita and 3DS until they knew they couldn't.
They were REALLY late to PS3, still riding high on DS and PSP as much as they possibly could.
The only time they weren't late to hardware was PS2.
History does not align with you there.
It's not been the case since 2004 (maybe earlier) that Nintendo had been fully uncontested in the handheld gaming device market.
It's not been the case since the 1990s that Nintendo has been the best-selling console hardware in Japan on the back of core gamer buyers.
It's never been the case that Sony has re-located SCE to California and created a hill for some devs to climb that wasn't there before.
It's never been the case that Sony had strong competition for console purchasing dollars in Japan until Switch.
It's never been the case that the market has shifted so drastically that the handheld market won't exist as it always has once the 3DS dies.
... shall I go on?
Really, saying something couldn't/shouldn't be possible is the primary ingredient in ensuring that it happens in this industry. Believe me, I supped on crow stew enough times to discount nothing.
I've seen the future:
"Sure they were slow to react to PS5 but that's because the Switch was still going as a platform."
2 proper noun replacements was all it took.
You can't dismiss historic precedent when I use it and then make a case that it's important when you do it (even though you didn't have the facts right there). It's cherrypicking of the highest order.
Also, I never said they'd ignore the PS5, but they're not going to be in any massive hurry, either. They'll come when PS5 has comfortably settled its staying power in the Western and Japanese markets and that doesn't happen overnight. It'll take a year, bare minimum.
It's not about "championing a Nintendo platform over a Playstation one", that's fanboy drivel. They're going to champion the platform that has several millions of console owners compared to the platform with none, be it Switch, PS4 or both. Switch just happens to have the colossal momentum in Japan and continued growth in the US.
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Thats more fair.
If its for their kids, i dont think they really notice anything in performance other than the "bad" graphics due to old games. I'd also wager that most "casual" users who buys it wont notice much out of the ordinary either in terms of emulation. The games included are listed on the box and on websites, so no one should be surprised to which games thats included. Its fair to call it a waste of money, thats subjective, but for it to be a scam, there has to be something promised, and not delivered, with the intention to fool people, and thats not the case.
But to the initial question, i dont think this will have any effect on future Playstation products. Its not a widely popular product, and its not a main console either. I think most people care more about what the product actually offers rather than what was before. For example, i dont think the RROD on Xbox 360 had any huge impact on the sales of Xbox One. I dont know if theres any statistics to this, its just my guess. I rather think theres other factors at play instead (being $499 when the PS4 was $399 is probably the biggest one).
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The ps5 is an extension (additional hardware profile) of the existing development environment. Historical precedent may not apply in this case, because we're not dealing with generational cutoffs
Bunch of those are flat out wrong never been the case
Again your the one dismissing historic precedent here there's been 20 years worth of evidence regarding support levels for these two platforms. My argument is clear, Japanese 3rd parties will jump on the PS5 faster than that of switch. This isn't an unrealistic expectation.
Bunch of those are flat out wrong or misleading. Let's move a bunch of goal post around including my favorite highlights such as"the wii doesn't count" and outselling your competition 8 to 1 in the hand held space. To make an argument that just plain doesn't credibly answer my point. Your arguing that something that hasn't happened before will happen. That's fine there's a first time for everything but let's not twist facts to make point.
Again your the one dismissing historic precedent here there's been 20 years worth of evidence regarding support levels for these two platforms. My argument is clear, Japanese 3rd parties will jump on the PS5 faster than that of switch. This isn't an unrealistic expectation.
The thing is tho, the Switch is something that never happened in history before, so you can't really say much about how it will do, because in fact there is absolutely no comparable data available.
The 3DS and a potential successor were gone for good in June 2017 when Ishihara announced that Pokémon would come to the Switch. You don't come back from that, there's no mysterious Nintendo handheld that would ever miss on Pokémon. Them not wanting to officially announce it really doesn't matter.
The switch is unique but frankly it's profile isn't all that different to the 3DS domestically outside of selling far more first party software. Similar buying demographics so far a much younger user base than the PS4 on average. The PS4 still sells more third party software domestically and that likely won't change anytime soon. Which is why i don't get where this idea is coming from that they'd ignore the PS5. Japanese 3rd party support of Playstation ecosystem is substantial even when it didn't make sense with the vita rather than change they doubled down. which is why i believe at best the current scenario would bring nintendo up to par but they're not going to give Nintendo preference all of a sudden as that would be an extreme reversal.
Yep. If there ever is a new Nintendo handheld only, then it will either be a dockless Switch sku, or a new system that is way out in the future. As it stands, no 3ds successor line should be expected within the next decade at least imo (and probably longer than that). The shift of Pokémon to Switch basically seals that, along with literally every handheld franchise (mainline Fire Emblem, mainline Animal Crossing) coming to the Switch.
Not "will", "COULD". The only one making a definitive argument here has been you. My first reply to you on this topic was actually positing the possibility of another outcome, which you shut down as an impossibility.
Feel free to point out where I've been factually wrong, I'm willing to admit when I'm mistaken.
And it's hardly moving the goalposts to identify what everyone in this forum has known for ages now: the Wii was a heavy seller, but it wasn't selling to the core market that the PlayStation brand does. That's not even something up for debate by ANYONE at this point.
And outselling 8 to 1 doesn't really factor in anymore when Sony is done with the handheld market entirely and ceded it completely. If there were a Vita 2 that these devs could shelter themselves in, then there may be something to that, but there isn't. If you're going to accuse someone of handwaving, don't do it.
So when I used historic precedent and you laughed me off for saying that bringing up the seventh generation to make a point was "telling" and that a lot's changed since the seventh generation, that wasn't dismissing historic precedent?
surejan.gif
At this point, I'm willing to say that there's a strong chance that something will be different. That you cannot and refuse to acknowledge the possibility that the market isn't going to play out exactly as you say is your prerogative, I suppose. But let's just say that I'm feeling a need to earmark this thread for 3 years from now and leave it at that.
OP
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Since we talk for Level 5 and mismanagement let's not forget Square
[3DS] Bravely Default - 1.400.000
[3DS] Bravely Second: End Layer - 700.000
___
And with Kingdom Heart III out in a month (sales until December 2017)
[3DS] Kingdom Hearts 3D: Dream Drop Distance - 1.300.000
[PS3] Kingdom Hearts HD I.5 ReMIX <Kingdom Hearts \ Kingdom Hearts Re:Chain of Memories> - 1.600.000
[PS3] Kingdom Hearts HD II.5 ReMIX <Kingdom Hearts II \ Kingdom Hearts II: Final Mix+ \ Kingdom Hearts: Birth by Sleep> - 1.200.000
[PS4] Kingdom Hearts HD II.8 Final Chapter Prologue <Kingdom Hearts: Dream Drop Distance HD \ Kingdom Hearts χ: Back Cover \ Kingdom Hearts 0.2: Birth by Sleep - A Fragmentary Passage> - 1.000.000
[PS4] Kingdom Hearts HD I.5 + II.5 ReMIX <Kingdom Hearts HD I.5 ReMIX <Kingdom Hearts \ Kingdom Hearts Re:Chain of Memories> \ Kingdom Hearts HD II.5 ReMIX <Kingdom Hearts II \ Kingdom Hearts II: Final Mix+ \ Kingdom Hearts: Birth by Sleep>> - 1.100.000
___
Bonus
[PS4] Final Fantasy Type-0 HD still tries to sell the initial shipment of 1m.
[3DS] Bravely Default - 1.400.000
[3DS] Bravely Second: End Layer - 700.000
___
And with Kingdom Heart III out in a month (sales until December 2017)
[3DS] Kingdom Hearts 3D: Dream Drop Distance - 1.300.000
[PS3] Kingdom Hearts HD I.5 ReMIX <Kingdom Hearts \ Kingdom Hearts Re:Chain of Memories> - 1.600.000
[PS3] Kingdom Hearts HD II.5 ReMIX <Kingdom Hearts II \ Kingdom Hearts II: Final Mix+ \ Kingdom Hearts: Birth by Sleep> - 1.200.000
[PS4] Kingdom Hearts HD II.8 Final Chapter Prologue <Kingdom Hearts: Dream Drop Distance HD \ Kingdom Hearts χ: Back Cover \ Kingdom Hearts 0.2: Birth by Sleep - A Fragmentary Passage> - 1.000.000
[PS4] Kingdom Hearts HD I.5 + II.5 ReMIX <Kingdom Hearts HD I.5 ReMIX <Kingdom Hearts \ Kingdom Hearts Re:Chain of Memories> \ Kingdom Hearts HD II.5 ReMIX <Kingdom Hearts II \ Kingdom Hearts II: Final Mix+ \ Kingdom Hearts: Birth by Sleep>> - 1.100.000
___
Bonus
[PS4] Final Fantasy Type-0 HD still tries to sell the initial shipment of 1m.
I never shut down anything as an impossibility. If you read through my post everything I've said are my predictions and justifications. I disagreed with your analysis I never said it was impossible even in the post your quoting I said exactly that.
it is indeed moving goal posts as wii sold plenty of core software in Japan. Your argument is that the switch is selling more core software as fact when the switch hasn't even had it's first third party million seller in Japan or anything close to it. Minecraft is the best bet but I'm not sure if that's what your referring to as "core".
That's why I'm stating your twisting facts or at best ignoring the underlying weakness in your statements.
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Is this really a case of mismanagement? I always thought Bravely Second's low sales could be blamed on Bravely Default shooting itself in the foot with its terrible end game content. No one was hungry for more Bravely after that. I wouldn't call that franchise mismanagement, rather just that the quality of the game didn't live up to its initial promise.
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When a new IP sells the way it sells and nevertheless you give its sequel very limited budget with recycled content you can't blame anyone else.
That's wrong though, Bravely Default was critically acclaimed and had a big audience. Don't make too much out of some complaints on the internet: Bravely Second sold quite well in Europe and NA despite what you said.
So the extent of your comparison to Wii software is looking at million sellers? Come on. It doesn't take much analysis to see that the Switch demographic is more core oriented than Wii. I'm not even sure what the argument is supposed to be.
I'm not even talking just about million sellers here, millions sellers are just a nice easy way to demonstrate the point. The switch isn't as substantially over performing in comparison to wii 3rd party wise like that argument implies. That's my point Even minecraft is not from a Japanese third party.
That's a fair take. Maybe a bigger production could have saved Bravely Second.
I think the real question now is what they do with Octopath Traveler. To be honest I'm kind of expecting them to take the same strategy here, and have a rather samey sequel. I can't see that working out very well though, either. I guess we'll see what happens.
To the extent Switch 3rd party software isn't doing amazing, its because 3rd parties haven't released strong software for it.
What exactly are you arguing right now?
I think third party wise it will be a different story if the PS5 is a standard followup to the PS4. You will see lots of ports with maybe better performences but the typical AAA stuff will be too few to make any difference in Japan. We've seen Japanese companies try to appeal but quite frankly, only Capcom looks like its going to succeed with that strategy if they can keep up with regular AAA releases (which is doubtfull).
I see Japanese developers including Nintendo to be excelent developers at the mid tier level. I think they will go back to their roots and go for more mid tier titles instead of trying to appeal to the AAA crowd with every IP. Now with that said, the Switch excells at selling mid tier level software so I expect lots of multiplatform releases going forward and also more Switch exclusives.
You are assuming that a 3DS successor wouldnt be able to run Switch games.
They could very well release a 3DS successor the same way Apple introduced new devices that run iOS content. A new 3DS was never going to have his own libary because Nintendo already unified those teams.
Hence why i said it was misleading. If the data isn't there don't talk as if it is.
Failing to expand on a critically acclaimed new IP is mismanagement. Truth is SE never believed in Bravely and it came to the West only thaks to Nintendo.
Octopath's team has now a full division for their games. A samey sequel will be less likely this time I think.
That simply shows Level 5 wasn't really unprepared to HD development.
Most likely, they shifted resources to YW and were late on other projects. Also, if Level 5 was new to contracting out development it might be unprepared to cultivating and managing those relationships.
Bravely Second was too late and too little.
The franchise had much potential; characters became popular and the game had a pretty big following back then. Second was released too late and wasn't ambitious. Despite this, it sold well overseas.
Between the chapter 5 hyperbole, losing Revo and smaller budget, I am honestly surprised Bravely Second sold as much as it did.
SE never really believed in the 3DS outside of Japan - the way they handled the IP wasnt that surprising, when they were putting all company resources toward the PS4.
Their whole 3DS approach was about just doing as much as needed, they didnt go an extra step with any of their titles....XI was an exception because it was XI and Horii wasnt going to release a subpar mainline title on 3DS.
But to be fair to SE - the western 3DS market wasnt that attractive a couple of years in.
Their whole 3DS approach was about just doing as much as needed, they didnt go an extra step with any of their titles....XI was an exception because it was XI and Horii wasnt going to release a subpar mainline title on 3DS.
But to be fair to SE - the western 3DS market wasnt that attractive a couple of years in.
Level 5's priorities of late have been quite weied. In hindsight NNK II probably should have been left on the backer burner relative to their other projects. But really this is all minor in comparison to inexplicable inability to produce mobile games at a reasonable schedule. Those games really should have made up a major pillar of their companies road map and I have no idea how all those delays even happened.
Its not that surprising....SE already had ridiculous expectations on the OG DS - whent hey stopped the remakes because they werent happy with FF IV sales.
Im happy that they invested in a new IP with BD...instead of another FF spin-off though.
Switch might be the system where they will finally be ready to open up the wallets in term of budgets for Bravely Default III.
putting NNK2 on the back burner probably would have pissed off Bamco. though I guess you mean let that game be the one largely outsourced
speaking of SE, maybe we'll see Tokyo RPG Factory's next game soon. then again, with the further success of Team Asano, they're probably on thin ice
Persona 5 R announcement is imminent:
https://personacentral.com/persona-5-r-announcement-imminent-official-domain-updated/
Very likely on the broadcast on December 30th.
https://personacentral.com/persona-5-r-announcement-imminent-official-domain-updated/
Very likely on the broadcast on December 30th.
Remember how many FF spin offs/remakes Square released on portables the previous generation. PSP got a ton: two Dissidia games, Type 0, Crisis Core, remake of 1, etc.
DS got remakes of FF3 and FF4, FF Four Warriors of Light, two Crystal Chronicles Games, etc.
I think vita got nothing till WoF? 3DS got FF explorers and theater rhythm and I think that's it?
Bravely Default was likely a sequel to FWOL, they canceled the chocobo racing games too
Most moved to mobile, I guess
DS got remakes of FF3 and FF4, FF Four Warriors of Light, two Crystal Chronicles Games, etc.
I think vita got nothing till WoF? 3DS got FF explorers and theater rhythm and I think that's it?
Bravely Default was likely a sequel to FWOL, they canceled the chocobo racing games too
Most moved to mobile, I guess
Yeah i'm not sure what SE where thinking of with those low budget JRPG's. The sole reason people are interested in SE JRPG's is their comparatively high production values. You take that away and there really isn't all that much there.
Most million-selling 3rd-party games are in the AAA category, and that's been notably absent on Switch. Smaller devs are lucky if they achieve 500K on any platform, PS4 included.
So since we can't compare what's not there (at least from the Japanese publisher perspective), let's measure demographics the only way we can and just look at Nintendo core gamer products:
Odyssey is about to outsell Galaxy's lifetime sales in just over a year.
SSBU has sold 3 million copies in 11 days on the market in the US alone, which is already 22% of Brawl's lifetime WW sales on Wii.
MK8D, an enhanced port, is already a 3rd of the way to reaching the astronomical heights of MKWii's lifetime sales in 2 years. A third of the sales of the best-selling racing game of all time. In 2 years. For an enhanced port.
BotW utterly crushed every Zelda title ever made in sales, including the untouchable 8mil-seller Twilight Princess. Within a year and a half.
Again, I don't think this is up for debate. Wii's high sales figures were bolstered by newly-addressed market segments that have since moved on, not by core gamers. Meanwhile, core franchises are seeing their biggest numbers ever on Switch.
Huh. Wonder what conclusion one must inevitably come to from this data. After all, sales data doesn't lie.
It's there. For the world to see.
EDIT: OOOO, here's a another one:
It's never been the case that NIS has supported a Nintendo platform and was strictly in the Sony camp.
Remember when people in MC threads argued that Disgaea 5 Complete was throwaway token support and NIS would never back the Switch? Man, those were the days, huh?
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This is a discussion about 3rd parties sales here. The fact Nintendo software sells well isn't of great interest to Japanese 3rd parties since nintendo software has always done well and nintendo software doing well doesn't necessarily correlate to their software doing well. Sony even gloats that Nintendo first party sales negatively affect 3rd party sales. That's my point there don't make assertions based on data you don't have.
The third party software that sold best for Switch is the one that was specifically designed for Switch, like Octopath Traveler and Mario + Rabbids Kingdom Battle. It shows, if you invest the time into bringing quality third party titles to Switch it pays off. Minecraft is one of the only exceptions to that rule (but that Minecraft version is a quality port after all).
The type of first party software selling well is very relevant to 3rd parties. There is a substantial difference in the audience buying Wii Sports compared to Zelda and Splatoon.
OP
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Switch third party sales have rised exponentially in 2018 comparing to 2017 and 2019 won't be different. They aren't very different from Wii was selling despite the lower output in titles. Third year is the one that will make the difference in favor of Switch. It was also when third parties became more serious with Wii.
You can make that argument. I never said it's not a valid point of view but i'd hold off making such a assertion about a systems domestic core software selling capabilities before having any strong data points.
I believe that TRPGF was created in response to the success of Bravely Default. their attempt intentionally tap into the audience who're wanting simpler and nostalgic experiences that BD harkened back to.
but then failed twice in a row
It seemed to have fell into same hole as Bravey second. Wanting to tap into that audience without the production values or ambition that was the reason for BD success.
Hey, you were the one saying that "Wii sold plenty of core software" to discount the notion that Wii's market share was somehow significantly from core gamers, irrespective of the 3rd-party equation.
Yeah, it sold core software, except when you stack it against a platform that sells to core gamers. Then it starts to look like a pittance if some of those lifetime worldwide software sales can be toppled in a matter of a year by a console actually geared towards core gamers.
Drag out those core-gamer Japanese 3rd-party titles for Wii so we can compare properly. I'll wait.
The wii had a tie ratio of 9. One of the highest Nintendo ever had It sold a metric fuckton of software worldwide. No so much domestically but still respectable. That includes a lot of 3rd party software.
Those are also the only 3rd party releases worth a damn on the system, so that conclusion is hardly fair to draw.
Edit: And then there's Taiko and Minecraft, which are both doing very strongly. I just don't see that 3rd party exclusives are the best-selling games on the system, at least in Japan.
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