Media Create Sales: Week 50, 2019 (Dec 09 - Dec 15)

hiska-kun · Dec 20, 2019

First Day Sell-through {2019.12.19}

[PS4] [NSW] Warriors Orochi 4 Ultimate <ACT> (Koei Tecmo) (¥7.800) - 50%

[NSW] [PS4] Megaman & Megaman X 5-in-1 Box Set <ACT> (Capcom) (¥9.990) - 25%

[NSW] Uta no Prince-Sama: Repeat Love for Nintendo Switch <ADV> (Broccoli) (¥5.800) - 40%

All are small releases.

Lite_Agent · Dec 20, 2019

Celine said:
Nintendo's saving grace is that its strategy don't rely much on third-party games (at least directly) so they can release unconventional hardware designs that they think might create interest in the market and owning in-house game series cultivated for years (decades in many cases) that keep their high popularity generation after generation in spite of changing trends.

Yup, it was very obvious with the first year of the Switch, Nintendo had lined up at least 1 notable release/month in order to carry momentum on their own because counting on 3rd-party games is a fairly hazardous thing to do when you're called Nintendo. Case in point: when there was a gap in the line-up, generally because Nintendo had to delay a game, most 3rd-party pubs seemed to be stuck in the "wait, is the Switch successful or not?" step.

Though one might argue that this kind of "not relying on 3rd-party pubs" strategy could partially backfire (ie: not providing enough incentive for 3rd-party pubs to jump on board), but don't think it really applies on Switch.

hiska-kun said:
[NSW] [PS4] Megaman & Megaman X 5-in-1 Box Set <ACT> (Capcom) (¥9.990) - 25%

Huh, completely forgot about that one!

Raguy · Dec 20, 2019

*Guaraná said:
considering AC is a CY2019 title and we still have a lot of time until march, 31, I'd say 10mi is likely to happen.

It's until week 52, 2019.

NeonZ · Dec 20, 2019

KillerMan91 said:
I have always wondered why N64 bombed so badly in Japan. I mean WiiU I get as it bombed everywhere and was just unappealing product but N64 actually sold almost like SNES outside of Japan but then bombed in their home country. I mean third party software went to PS but like we see now Nintendo is very much able to move huge amounts of hardware on the back of their own software.

For the West, the N64 still had sports games, racing, tons of FPS and then Nintendo's titles. It mainly suffered on the JRPG side (which was at its peak at the time) and all those new Japanese franchises that exploded during that period (like Metal Gear and Resident Evil). For Japan, FPS basically don't count , so you're just left with a very sparse release calendar and some soccer/baseball games. And it was very sparse initially.

Looking at the Japanese release dates, for the first month you had Mario 64, Wave Race and a Shogi game, then nothing at all for three months, until Wave Race. Then you got two third party titles in November (a Golf game and Wonder Project J2) with Mario Kart in December alongside some more sports third party stuff. Then yet again there was nothing for months until March. From this point on there is a more consistent release schedule, but a lot of it is filled with Western titles that didn't really appeal to the Japanese market. It wasn't just months with weak software initially, it was months with nothing released at all, which likely even hurt the console's marketing presence.

ggx2ac · Dec 20, 2019

MegaXZero said:
Keeping the PS4 price low will just make the PS5 look unappealing if it's priced as expected, especially given the inevitable cross gen games that will be available.

I don't think Sony cares enough about Japan as a market to try and right the ship with the PS5.

It won't matter if the PS4 is cheaper than the PS5, the PS4 has been declining in sales YoY and will continue to do so. The PS4 already saturated its weekly sales rate and has already saturated its AAA third party system selling titles released on the PS4 when MHW came out, I'm aware FF7R is coming but it's not the first FF title released on the PS4, most of the audience is already there for that series.

The PS4 isn't going to be outselling the PS5 from 2021 onwards.

Also, no one is buying a PS4 over a PS5 due to cross-gen games. You buy a PS4 to play the catalogue it already has, if you only want new games, you don't go picking the console that will be at the end of its life sooner than the PS5 will.

Kerotan · Dec 20, 2019

ggx2ac said:
It won't matter if the PS4 is cheaper than the PS5, the PS4 has been declining in sales YoY and will continue to do so. The PS4 already saturated its weekly sales rate and has already saturated its AAA third party system selling titles released on the PS4 when MHW came out, I'm aware FF7R is coming but it's not the first FF title released on the PS4, most of the audience is already there for that series.

The PS4 isn't going to be outselling the PS5 from 2021 onwards.

Also, no one is buying a PS4 over a PS5 due to cross-gen games. You buy a PS4 to play the catalogue it already has, if you only want new games, you don't go picking the console that will be at the end of its life sooner than the PS5 will.

Not true at all. Millions of people have always bought PlayStations after its successor comes out. These are people who can't afford a shiny new console and a $200/150 ps4 would be perfect for.

GuEiMiRrIRoW · Dec 20, 2019

Chris1964 said:
Famitsu Sales: Week 51, 1992 (Dec 14 - Dec 20)

01./01. [SFC] Final Fantasy V <RPG> (Square) {1992.12.06} (¥9.800)
02./03. [SFC] Super Mario Kart <RCE> (Nintendo) {1992.08.27} (¥8.900)
03./05. [SFC] Dragon Quest V: Hand of the Heavenly Bride <RPG> (Enix) {1992.09.27} (¥9.600)
04./02. [FCM] Mega Man 5 <ACT> (Capcom) {1992.12.04} (¥7.800)
05./00. [SFC] Hanjuku Eiyuu: Aa, Sekaiyo Hanjukunare…!! <RPG> (Square) {1992.12.19} (¥9.500)
06./06. [SFC] The Magical Quest Starring Mickey Mouse <ACT> (Capcom) {1992.11.20} (¥8.500)
07./04. [GMB] Super Mario Land 2: Six Golden Coins _Retail/Nintendo Power_ <ACT> (Nintendo) {1992.10.21} (¥3.900)
08./07. [SFC] Fatal Fury <FTG> (Takara) {1992.11.27} (¥9.800)
09./08. [SFC] Street Fighter II <FTG> (Capcom) {1992.06.10} (¥9.800)
10./10. [GMB] Yoshi's Cookie _Retail/Nintendo Power_ <PZL> (Nintendo) {1992.11.21} (¥2.900)

1988 is 4 weeks combined

Famitsu Sales: Week 50-53, 1988 (Dec 26 - Jan 01)

01./00. [FCM] Super Mario Bros. 3 <ACT> (Nintendo) {1988.10.23} (¥6.500)
02./00. [FCM] Final Fantasy II <RPG> (Square) {1988.12.17} (¥6.500)
03./00. [FCM] Pro Baseball Famista '88 <SPT> (Namco) {1988.12.20} (¥4.900)
04./00. [FCM] Momotaro Dentetsu <TBL> (Hudson) {1988.12.02} (¥5.800)
05./00. [FCM] Gradius II <STG> (Konami) {1988.12.16} (¥5.900)

ehat a fucking year! Only amazing games!

GuEiMiRrIRoW · Dec 20, 2019

MegaXZero said:
Keeping the PS4 price low will just make the PS5 look unappealing if it's priced as expected, especially given the inevitable cross gen games that will be available.

I don't think Sony cares enough about Japan as a market to try and right the ship with the PS5.

thats what i was going to say. If it goes too low,that will be bad for ps5, which will be seen as extremely expensive.

GuEiMiRrIRoW · Dec 20, 2019

Kerotan said:
Not true at all. Millions of people have always bought PlayStations after its successor comes out. These are people who can't afford a shiny new console and a $200/150 ps4 would be perfect for.

millions of people mostly on 3rd world countries. Sales of playstation on US, Europe and japan always plummeted with the next system.

Chris1964 · Dec 20, 2019

Since Sony won't lower PS4 price the year PS5 launches it's irrelevant how big untapped audience there is or there isn't.

ggx2ac · Dec 20, 2019

Kerotan said:
Not true at all. Millions of people have always bought PlayStations after its successor comes out. These are people who can't afford a shiny new console and a $200/150 ps4 would be perfect for.

I'm talking about Japan and you're talking about worldwide sales...

Besides that, the PS3 didn't end up like the PS2 once its successor was out.

Kerotan · Dec 20, 2019

ggx2ac said:
I'm talking about Japan and you're talking about worldwide sales...

Besides that, the PS3 didn't end up like the PS2 once its successor was out.

The ps3 also didn't have the ability to go as low in price as the ps4 and it was nowhere near as profitable. Not only was the hardware more costly to make but way less people subbed to PS Plus, bought digital, MTX or subbed to the likes of PS NOW. Selling a $200/150 ps4 next year or the year after would be very profitable for Sony and not only that it expands the user base making the ps5 an obvious upgrade a few years later when it drops in price as it will be BC.

ggx2ac · Dec 20, 2019

This is just hilarious, I don't even need to bother any further with this bait.

Garchia3.0 · Dec 20, 2019

Chris1964 said:
Since Sony won't lower PS4 price the year PS5 launches it's irrelevant how big untapped audience there is or there isn't.

I was really expecting a price drop :(

Absolute · Dec 20, 2019

Bringing worldwide sales into the Japanese sales discussion yet again. I dunno why you guys bother responding.

Kerotan · Dec 20, 2019

Absolute said:
Bringing worldwide sales into the Japanese sales discussion yet again. I dunno why you guys bother responding.

Again with the needless aggression. Japan is in the world. I'm basically saying every country including Japan. Obviously certain markets like China, India, Eastern Europe and South America will benefit mire more then the traditional power houses. But they'll still benefit.

Garchia3.0 said:
I was really expecting a price drop :(

As both a massive PlayStation and Sales fan I'll be devastated if they don't. I'm going to enjoy the next few weeks numbers before that though.

srtrestre · Dec 20, 2019

Absolute said:
Bringing worldwide sales into the Japanese sales discussion yet again.

HaremKing · Dec 20, 2019

audisio said:
millions of people mostly on 3rd world countries. Sales of playstation on US, Europe and japan always plummeted with the next system.

Remind me again how the sales of the PS2 were after the PS3 released in japan?

Chris1964 · Dec 20, 2019

Garchia3.0 said:
I was really expecting a price drop :(

Sony lowered forecast twice this year and preferred again only the holiday promotions for getting extra sales. They had many chances to proceed to an even small price drop and didn't do it. Their focus is entirely PS5, time to accept it and move on.

Guaraná · Dec 20, 2019

Kerotan said:
Again with the needless aggression. Japan is in the world. I'm basically saying every country including Japan. Obviously certain markets like China, India, Eastern Europe and South America will benefit mire more then the traditional power houses. But they'll still benefit.

A small offtopic:

PS4 is quite popular here in South America. Soccer fans love their FIFA/PES machine.

Xone is seen as something inferior and Switch is seen and something for rich hardcore fans. Actually most people doesn't even remember Nintendo still makes consoles.

Guaraná · Dec 20, 2019

Raguy said:
It's until week 52, 2019.

Then forget it.

KillerMan91 · Dec 20, 2019

Celine said:
It's not wise to compare the situation back in the mid '90s to now because it is totally different.
Back then you had Capcom coming out of the Street Fighter 2 craze and creating Resident Evil, Namco copying Sega arcade hits and getting the upper hand (by backing the winning horse in the console space and by adopting the cheap PlayStation based arcade board for arcades), Squaresoft continuing their rise to stardom from the SFC days and Enix following it, Sony finding notable success with cheap puzzle/weird games (Devil Dice, Parappa, Intelligent Cube) and I could go on and on.
Nowadays not only most of the past japanese big selling game series are declining (for example the appetite of japanese people for RPGs is clearly far lower than in the '90s) but japanese publishers seems unable to create new game series that catch the interest of a wide population (the new big sensations in recent years were Splatoon by Nintendo, a western made multiplatform game and a game series backed by a multimedia fad).
In short the balance in power between Nintendo and the rest of the industry progressively shifted toward Nintendo due to the weakening of third-party offerings and Nintendo's ability to keep creating popular games.

The other important factor to keep in mind is that the software works in cooperation with hardware, they mutually influence each other (a well designed and desiderable console help sell more software and enticing software help sell more hardware).
If Nintendo had decided to just release a console that imitate PS4 instead of NSW you could be assured that the very same Nintendo software that is pushing NSW would have sold less and hardware sales would have been inferior.
Nintendo correctly understood that for their first-party driven strategy to be successful it is required the presence of unique selling points that are immediately enticing for a wide population that work together with their in-house software because it is of utmost importance to create momentum that goes beyond just Nintendo fans.
Once the ball is rolling and word of mouth spread to a wider audience, Nintendo is well aware that these new console owners most likely will purchase Nintendo software (because they are the tent-pole games on Nintendo consoles).

That makes a lot of sense. Thanks for lengthy explanation.

NeonZ said:
For the West, the N64 still had sports games, racing, tons of FPS and then Nintendo's titles. It mainly suffered on the JRPG side (which was at its peak at the time) and all those new Japanese franchises that exploded during that period (like Metal Gear and Resident Evil). For Japan, FPS basically don't count , so you're just left with a very sparse release calendar and some soccer/baseball games. And it was very sparse initially.

Looking at the Japanese release dates, for the first month you had Mario 64, Wave Race and a Shogi game, then nothing at all for three months, until Wave Race. Then you got two third party titles in November (a Golf game and Wonder Project J2) with Mario Kart in December alongside some more sports third party stuff. Then yet again there was nothing for months until March. From this point on there is a more consistent release schedule, but a lot of it is filled with Western titles that didn't really appeal to the Japanese market. It wasn't just months with weak software initially, it was months with nothing released at all, which likely even hurt the console's marketing presence.

Oh yeah. In west Nintendo had games like Perfect Dark and Goldeneye. Didn't think about that. Didn't realize that droughts were that bad in Japan for N64. Holy fuck.

Deleted member 41980 · Dec 20, 2019

This was the seventh best selling week for Switch hardware.

Week 01 (03/05/17) 330,637
Week 43 (12/24/17) 303,504
Week 95 (12/23/18) 300,661
Week 94 (12/16/18) 285,513
Week 93 (12/09/18) 278,313
Week 134 (9/22/19) 239,740
Week 146 (12/15/19) 236,625
Week 42 (12/17/17) 230,259
Week 97 (01/06/19) 225,698
Week 135 (09/29/19) 196,489

For comparison, here are the top ten weeks for the 3DS after 146 weeks. Overall weekly sales rankings as of 12/15/19 are listed in brackets.

Week 44 (12/25/11) 510,629 [1]
Week 96 (12/23/12) 433,788 [2]
Week 43 (12/18/11) 387,838 [3]
Week 42 (12/11/11) 378,114 [4]
Week 01 (02/27/11) 371,326 [5]
Week 95 (12/16/12) 333,409 [6]
Week 98 (01/06/13) 305,690 [7]
Week 134 (09/15/13) 298,354 [8]
Week 97 (12/30/12) 266,790 [9]
Week 46 (01/08/12) 257,377 [11]

At week 146 in the 3DS lifespan it cumulatively sold 14,056,310 units which amounts to 57.4% of the total units sold as of 12/15/19 . Here are the best-selling Nintendo & Pokemon published games.

Animal Crossing: New Leaf (3,908,197)
Pokemon X / Y (3,449,741)
New Super Mario Bros. 2 (2,154,892)
Mario Kart 7 (2,117,454)
Super Mario 3D Land (1,901,422)
Tomodachi Life (1,488,511)
Luigi's Mansion: Dark Moon (923,493)
nintendogs + cats (602,954)
The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time 3D (559,660)
Paper Mario: Sticker Star (541,848)

Data collected by Famitsu and obtained through Famitsu, Chris1964, and Game Data Library.

foxuzamaki · Dec 20, 2019

KillerMan91 said:
That makes a lot of sense. Thanks for lengthy explanation.

Oh yeah. In west Nintendo had games like Perfect Dark and Goldeneye. Didn't think about that. Didn't realize that droughts were that bad in Japan for N64. Holy fuck.

I'm surprised how hard and fast japanese devs dropped Nintendo for sony, you would have thought during the 1st year alot more japanese/japanese appealing games would have dropped or been anmounced for it. It is my understanding that PlayStation didnt SUPER take off and reach 100 million until late in its life and N64 was the next console after SNES afterall

fiendcode · Dec 20, 2019

foxuzamaki said:
I'm surprised how hard and fast japanese devs dropped Nintendo for sony, you would have thought during the 1st year alot more japanese/japanese appealing games would have dropped or been anmounced for it. It is my understanding that PlayStation didnt SUPER take off and reach 100 million until late in its life and N64 was the next console after SNES afterall

Carts killed it. 3rd parties were partially waiting in the early days with pretty even support between PSX and Saturn upfront (except Namco who went all in with Sony) and mostly still supporting SFC at the same time. Then when Square formally backed PSX with FFVII the floodgates opened.

A few 3rd parties still did some N64 games, longtime Nintendo partners Hudson and Konami being the most prolific, but almost the entire industry moved from SFC to PSX without missing a beat.

N64 ended up being a huge drop from SFC in the end, I think the only real worse direct generational decline was PSP to Vita, but Nintendo's own games still sold absurdly well anyway.

GuEiMiRrIRoW · Dec 20, 2019

HaremKing said:
Remind me again how the sales of the PS2 were after the PS3 released in japan?

Oh gosh, haven't you been reading what everyone has been saying? Are you a troll? If they do cut the price of ps4, that will affect sales of ps5. Blocking you.

Sagadego17 · Dec 20, 2019

audisio said:
Oh gosh, haven't you been reading what everyone has been saying? Are you a troll? If they do cut the price of ps4, that will affect sales of ps5. Blocking you.

also report him from disrupting the topic

HaremKing · Dec 20, 2019

Since the poster has blocked me, let's get a discussion going.

Why would a cheaper price for the PS4 affect sales of the PS5? Do we think that the majority of the audience that would buy a PS5 early on does not already have a PS4? Is the early adoption crowd one that cares about the price of old outdated technology?

Come now, let us attempt logic and reason rather than making baseless claims and falsehoods. And there has been no disruption, unless you feel that the goal of a forum is not to discuss and debate topics peaceably.

Lelouch0612 · Dec 20, 2019

HaremKing said:
Since the guy has blocked me, let's get a discussion going.

Why would a cheaper price for the PS4 affect sales of the PS5? Do we think that the majority of the audience that would buy a PS5 early on does not already have a PS4? Is the early adoption crowd one that cares about the price of old outdated technology?

Come now, let us attempt logic and reason rather than making baseless claims and falsehoods. And there has been no disruption, unless you feel that the goal of a forum is not to discuss and debate topics peaceably.

I'll ask you the following question, if Sony drops the price of the Slim how would it affect the sales of the Pro ?

There is data available and I think it would give you an idea of what to expect if the PS5 is way more expensive than the PS4 in its early years (where most of software will be shared).

fiendcode · Dec 20, 2019

The issue with PS4 in Japan isn't it's price, in fact Japan is historically the least price sensitive major console market. I don't think a bargain bin PS4 would have much impact either way.

KillerMan91 · Dec 20, 2019

fiendcode said:
The issue with PS4 in Japan isn't it's price, in fact Japan is historically the least price sensitive major console market. I don't think a bargain bin PS4 would have much impact either way.

is it? Before Siwtch cheap handhelds dominated Japan for over a decade. Switch is first system in long time that sells well with higher price point and even with it 30k yen launch price in 2017 is not that expensive for system that provides home console experience. Last time something more expensive sold as well was PS2 in 2000 at 40k yen. At the same time in US PS4 peaked already in 2015 when it was $399 for most of the year. In several European countries PS4 peaked in 2014.

HaremKing · Dec 20, 2019

Lelouch0612 said:
I'll ask you the following question, if Sony drops the price of the Slim how would it affect the sales of the Pro ?

There is data available and I think it would give you an idea of what to expect if the PS5 is way more expensive than the PS4 in its early years (where most of software will be shared).

Why would the Pro be purchased at all if price is the only factor? I'm not sure I understand your point.

The PS5 would be brand new technology. The PS4 Pro is older than the Nintendo Switch. Sony literally lowered the price of the base PS4 (with the slim) the same day the PS4 Pro released, didn't they?

https://techcrunch.com/2016/09/07/the-ps4-slim-is-coming-september-15-for-299/

MegaXZero · Dec 20, 2019

If the market is largerly cross gen there will be little reason for the more casual customers to switch from their own PS4 to the PS5 or buy a PS5 over a very cheap PS4 unless the PS5 brings something else to the table, which it very well might since we still don't know a whole lot about it.

HaremKing said:
Come now, let us attempt logic and reason rather than making baseless claims and falsehoods. And there has been no disruption, unless you feel that the goal of a forum is not to discuss and debate topics peaceably.

Why is your response to getting accused of trolling to troll?

Lelouch0612 · Dec 20, 2019

HaremKing said:
Why would the Pro be purchased at all if price is the only factor? I'm not sure I understand your point.

The PS5 would be brand new technology. The PS4 Pro is older than the Nintendo Switch. Sony literally lowered the price of the base PS4 (with the slim) the same day the PS4 Pro released, didn't they?

https://techcrunch.com/2016/09/07/the-ps4-slim-is-coming-september-15-for-299/

My point is rather simple, for the early years you can do the rough approximation that the PS5 is basically a PS4 Pro Pro.

By looking at the dynamics at play between the Slim and the Pro when the Slim price is cut, you might be able to guess how the price gap between the PS5 and the PS4 models will impact sales.

HaremKing · Dec 20, 2019

MegaXZero said:
Why is your response to getting accused of trolling to troll?

It's not? A call to foster rational and civil discourse is about as close you can get to the opposite of trolling.

Trolling is something with short sentences that don't foster any intelligent conversation and just wanting to rile people up.

fiendcode · Dec 20, 2019

KillerMan91 said:
is it? Before Siwtch cheap handhelds dominated Japan for over a decade. Switch is first system in long time that sells well with higher price point and even with it 30k yen launch price in 2017 is not that expensive for system that provides home console experience. Last time something more expensive sold as well was PS2 in 2000 at 40k yen. At the same time in US PS4 peaked already in 2015 when it was $399 for most of the year. In several European countries PS4 peaked in 2014.

The rise of handhelds in Japan also corresponded with their own rising price. DS was ~50% more expensive than GB/GBA were and PSP/3DS/Vita were all basically priced like home consoles at launch. You can also look at the continued sales split between the regular Switch and the "cheap handheld" Lite model.

Handhelds taking over and dominating had less to do with price and more to do with the software they fostered and the convenience they offered. They just fit into everyday society better than a box that plugged into your tv at home did.

IronTed · Dec 20, 2019

Lite_Agent said:
Even if you had removed the dates and changed the platforms, it would be easy for someone who didn't know about any of these games to know this wasn't recent chart, that Nintendo third-party support is out of this world.

In an alternate dimension, this week's chart looks something like:

01./01. [NSW] Final Fantasy XVI: Not A Needlessly Open World Action RPG To Cater To The West Anymore <RPG> (Square-Enix) {2019.12.06} (¥9.800)
02./03. [NSW] Mario Kart 10: Yes We Skipped 9 Too <RCE> (Nintendo) {2019.08.27} (¥8.900)
03./05. [NSW] Dragon Quest XII: Not An Open World Schlooter To Appeal To The West Because We Finally Realised They Don't Really Care After All But Don't Worry We're Still Going To Localise This One <RPG> (Square-Enix) {2019.09.27} (¥9.600)
04./02. [4DS] Mega Man 5 Re:make <ACT> (Capcom) {2019.12.04} (¥7.800)
05./00. [NSW] Terranigma VII: Whispers of Silver Angels - Yes We Didn't Kill This Series After The First Game Can You Believe It Oh But Of Course We're Not Going To Localise It No Way <RPG> (Square-Enix) {2019.12.19} (¥9.500)
06./06. [NSW] The Copyright Quest Starring Mickey Mouse and The Disney Lawyers <ACT> (Capcom) {2019.11.20} (¥8.500)
07./04. [4DS] Super Mario Land 4: Six MyNintendo Gold Coins <ACT> (Nintendo) {2019.10.21} (¥3.900)
08./07. [NSW] Fatal Fury vs. Mortal Kombat: Why Did We Make This Again? <FTG> (SNK) {2019.11.27} (¥9.800)
09./08. [NSW] Street Fighter VI: Ultra Championship Super Turbo Ultra Deluxe Mega Star feat. Dante From The Devil May Cry Series <FTG> (Capcom) {2019.06.10} (¥9.800)
10./10. [4DS] Ever Oasis II: The Desert of Souls - People In This Dimensions Have Much Better Tastes Than You <ACT> (Nintendo) {2019.11.21} (¥2.900)

There were ramblings about Switch release (something about localisation company listing it), but it's been ages and still nothing. Maybe they're just waiting for all games to be remastered and make a collection... or maybe they've just given up. Premium mobile games rarely do well, unless they're sold $0.99/$2.99 and/or are called Final Fantasy/Dragon Quest.

Lolol

Decided to look up PS2 sales (Gamedatalibrary)

2006: 1.471 million
2007: 816k (-45%)
2008: 481k (-41%)

Also, some NPD numbers I found in old threads

2006: 4.8 million
2007: 3.9 million (-19%)
2008: 2.5 million (-36%)

Don't have worldwide shipments on hand, so maybe someone could provide 2006-2008 for further context?

JJConrad · Dec 20, 2019

HaremKing said:
Remind me again how the sales of the PS2 were after the PS3 released in japan?

Whose side are you on, again? I always pegged you as a Sony fanboy, but advocating for a repeat of the PS2/PS3 transition is making my think twice. .

Chris1964 said:
Sony lowered forecast twice this year and preferred again only the holiday promotions for getting extra sales. They had many chances to proceed to an even small price drop and didn't do it. Their focus is entirely PS5, time to accept it and move on.

I think we're at the point where we have to simply accept and admit that Sony would totally dominate Japan if they wanted. There is no other way out.

HaremKing · Dec 20, 2019

Lelouch0612 said:
My point is rather simple, for the early years you can do the rough approximation that the PS5 is basically a PS4 Pro Pro.

By looking at the dynamics at play between the Slim and the Pro when the Slim price is cut, you might be able to guess how the price gap between the PS5 and the PS4 models will impact sales.

I mean, if your argument is that the enthusiast early adopter crowd is smaller than the mainstream wait-for-pricecut crowd then I definitely agree with you there, but I don't see how the enthusiast early adapter crowd's size is diminished itself from the price of older technology.

MegaXZero · Dec 20, 2019

fiendcode said:
The rise of handhelds in Japan also corresponded with their own rising price. DS was ~50% more expensive than GB/GBA were and PSP/3DS/Vita were all basically priced like home consoles at launch. You can also look at the continued sales split between the regular Switch and the "cheap handheld" Lite model.

Handhelds taking over and dominating had less to do with price and more to do with the software they fostered and the convenience they offered. They just fit into everyday society better than a box that plugged into your tv at home did.

But the vita failed and the 3DS needed a large price cut to succeed. I can see your point that the price kept increasing from gameboy to DS, but the 3DS and Vita seemed like both hit the same price wall.

Charamiwa · Dec 20, 2019

Sony doesn't want to do a price cut. That should end the debate of whether it would be a good thing or not right there. It wouldn't be a good thing because chances are they know better than us.

Lelouch0612 · Dec 20, 2019

HaremKing said:
I mean, if your argument is that the enthusiast early adopter crowd is smaller than the mainstream wait-for-pricecut crowd then I definitely agree with you there, but I don't see how the enthusiast early adapter crowd's size is diminished itself from the price of older technology.

I am claiming nothing since I didn't look seriously into it. I just shared an idea (that would need testing on historical data) to know how a price cut on the affordable product is impact sales of the premium one.

HaremKing · Dec 20, 2019

JJConrad said:
Whose side are you on, again? I always pegged you as a Sony fanboy, but advocating for a repeat of the PS2/PS3 transition is making my think twice. .

Advocating? Bringing up a counter-example to someone's argument isn't advocating anything, it's just illustrating why their argument (because the word always was used) was incorrect. If I'm on anyone's side, it's PC gaming, where the large majority of my gaming has been. But I'm also on the side of logic and refuting poorly constructed arguments.

fiendcode · Dec 20, 2019

MegaXZero said:
But the vita failed and the 3DS needed a large price cut to succeed. I can see your point that the price kept increasing from gameboy to DS, but the 3DS and Vita seemed like both hit the same price wall.

3DS got a major cut yes but that was a global issue, even upfront it was doing better relatively in Japan, and even it's cut price was an increase from DS. Plus it effectively rose in price again with later models (XL, n3DS).

Vita was generally the same price as PSP in Japan (once they flushed the 3G model), so it's not really logical to ascribe it's issues to that at all.

Handheld didn't take over because they were cheap, when handhelds did take over they were the most expensive they'd been and that just kept going up (still have when you consider Switch). Handhelds took over in Japan because they had the games people wanted and played them the way people wanted. It's not like the car culture of the west, commuter culture in Japan was a huge driving force here.

MegaXZero · Dec 20, 2019

fiendcode said:
3DS got a major cut yes but that was a global issue, even upfront it was doing better relatively in Japan, and even it's cut price was an increase from DS. Plus it effectively rose in price again with later models (XL, n3DS).

Vita was generally the same price as PSP in Japan (once they flushed the 3G model), so it's not really logical to ascribe it's issues to that at all.

Handheld didn't take over because they were cheap, when handhelds did take over they were the most expensive they'd been and that just kept going up (still have when you consider Switch). Handhelds took over in Japan because they had the games people wanted and played them the way people wanted. It's not like the car culture of the west, commuter culture in Japan was a huge driving force here.

The DS launched at 15,000 yen and the 3DS was cut to that price. The Vita took over a year to have a price cut and Sony Japan admitted the high price was part of the reason for it's stumbling. Granted they also lacked games which fits with what you said, but then it's probably a combination of both factors.

Actually looking at gamesdatalibrary, was the PSP actually outselling the vita in 2012?

Sandfox · Dec 20, 2019

Comparing PS2/PS3 to PS4/PS5 in the context of this discussion confuses me. They obviously have very little in common.

MysticGon · Dec 20, 2019

MegaXZero said:
Keeping the PS4 price low will just make the PS5 look unappealing if it's priced as expected, especially given the inevitable cross gen games that will be available.

I don't think Sony cares enough about Japan as a market to try and right the ship with the PS5.

I agree that Japan isn't as high a priority as it was 10-15 years ago. You don't see as many quirky Japanese exclusive games or accessories. Ever since Sony as a company had that near death experience, Kaz making PlayStation central to their business and budgets started ballooning, that side went away.

Japan is just another market that better perform adequately or else.

IronTed · Dec 20, 2019

Charamiwa said:
Sony doesn't want to do a price cut. That should end the debate of whether it would be a good thing or not right there. It wouldn't be a good thing because chances are they know better than us.

This. Sony's goal isn't selling the most units to placate fans on forums, or for some arbitrary sense of achievement. If they want to keep the current price they likely have a good reason, and they certainly are the only ones who truly know which way is best.

Oregano · Dec 20, 2019

Charamiwa said:
Sony doesn't want to do a price cut. That should end the debate of whether it would be a good thing or not right there. It wouldn't be a good thing because chances are they know better than us.

I agree it's a moot point but I disagree with that logic. Companies make massive errors all the time, ones that armchair CEOs see coming from a mile away.

JJConrad · Dec 20, 2019

HaremKing said:
Advocating? Bringing up a counter-example to someone's argument isn't advocating anything, it's just illustrating why their argument (because the word always was used) was incorrect. If I'm on anyone's side, it's PC gaming, where the large majority of my gaming has been. But I'm also on the side of logic and refuting poorly constructed arguments.

Then where is the logic in your current argument suppose to be? The PS2 to PS3 transition was a disaster and the PS4 anywhere near as dominate as the PS2 was. It's not a counterpoint for your case.

When in history has what you're arguing for here ever been successful? Late gen price cuts have never been known to spur new interest. They typically just cause the system to burn brighter, shifting later purchases forward. You're ultimately asking Sony to shorten the lifespan of the PS4 and for what? Lost revenue... Weaker brand value... Competition against themselves... They gain nothing from this now. Ohh, but... Points on a gaming forum... let's do it!!! This is silly.

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