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Primal Sage

Virtually Real
Member
Nov 27, 2017
9,905
It's a sad trend on Switch with publishers opting for smaller cart sizes to the detriment of game content. Assassin's Creed Rebel collection for Switch for instance only had AC4 on the cart while the DLC as well as all of AC: Rogue were merely a download code. Ubisoft could have included both games had they opted for a 16GB cart (Switch carts are 1GB, 2GB, 4GB, 8GB, 16GB or 32GB) but they cheaped out and used a 8GB cart which left only room for one of the games and none of the DLC.

The AC: Ezio Collection did a similar transgression with only one of the three games (2, Brotherhood, Revelations) being on the cart since two would not have fit on a 16GB cart and Ubi would not pay for a 32GB cart.


Konami though... they have taken it a step further. They are releasing the Metal Gear Solid Master Collection vol. 1 on a cart too small to hold a single Metal Gear Solid game. Yes, really. The three main titles are downloads only.

Oh, so the games must be pretty big then? Here, take a look of the size of the Switch version of the Master Collection. I've marked in blue the three main games.

EU:

  • Physical Version : 29.5GB ( *Front loaded onto cartridge 2.4GB )
  • Metal Gear Solid- Master Collection Version : 10.2GB
  • excl. MG&MG2 : 8.8GB
  • incl. MG&MG2 : 10.2GB ( Metal Gear & Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake : 1.4GB )
  • Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty - Master Collection Version : 8.0GB
  • Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater - Master Collection Version : 12.2GB
  • Bonus Content : 1.0GB + 30 GB for bonus videos

US:

  • Physical Version : 24.1GB ( *Front loaded onto cartridge 2.4GB )
  • Metal Gear Solid- Master Collection Version : 4.8GB
  • excl. MG&MG2 : 3.4GB
  • incl. MG&MG2 : 4.8GB ( Metal Gear & Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake : 1.4GB )
  • Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty - Master Collection Version : 8.0GB
  • Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater - Master Collection Version : 12.2GB
  • Bonus Content : 1.0GB + 30 GB for bonus videos

Now, we don't know what exactly the contents will be of those 2.4GB on the cart but clearly, it can't be any of the Metal Gear Solid games. Sounds like Metal Gear 1 and Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake are optional downloads inside MGS1 which by itself WOULD have fit on a 16GB cart in the EU version or a 8GB cart in the US version. Or alternatively, they could have put MGS2 alone on an 8GB cart.

But in stead we get a 4GB cart which fits... none of the MGS games.

Considering the Switch is the only current system where you can actually run games from the physical carts the games come on without needing to install the full game, this is a terrible waste of consumer storage space. And nothing suck more than sitting on a train one day and thinking "oh, i'd like to replay MGS1" only to find that the cart you've inserted is nothing more than a download key.

Shame on you, Konami. You could at least have given us one of the main games on the cart.

The list above is taken from here.

(This was already mentioned in the anouncement thread for the collection but I thought this needed its own thread for more visibility)
 
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Primal Sage

Primal Sage

Virtually Real
Member
Nov 27, 2017
9,905
Not really the main topic of the thread, but I am intrigued by MGS1 actually taking up more space than MGS2. It can't just be the PS1 ROM in an emulator wrapper then.

Edit: Turns out this only held true for the EU version which means the extra space required much be for language versions. MGS1 is about half the size of MGS2 in the US collection.
 
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Vito

One Winged Slayer - Formerly Undead Fantasy
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,280
Those sizes are wrong. These are on the site:

Required Space
  • Physical Version : 24.1GB ( *Front loaded onto cartridge 2.4GB )
  • Metal Gear Solid- Master Collection Version : 4.8GB
  • excl. MG&MG2 : 3.4GB
  • incl. MG&MG2 : 4.8GB ( Metal Gear & Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake : 1.4GB )
  • Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty - Master Collection Version : 8.0GB
  • Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater - Master Collection Version : 12.2GB
  • Bonus Content : 1.0GB + 30 GB for bonus videos
Still fucking bullshit. They should have used a 8GB to fit the first 3 games at least. Hopefully there's an Asian release with everything included.
 

IrishNinja

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,854
Vice City
wowwww, really defeats the purpose of a physical release at all - getting this on playstation is a no-brainer for me, but geez
i guess it's good to know MGS1 isn't just the PSX ISO apparently?

Apparently Switch cart manufacturing costs went up recently, and they don't make 64GB carts anymore because they were glitchy, so this might become more common.


View: https://twitter.com/vdeviance/status/1671589591285997575


that's really shitty to hear as well, but does cast things in a different light
 
Nov 2, 2017
6,841
Shibuya
[…] Considering the Switch is the only current system where you can actually run games from the physical media you buy without needing to install everything[…]
I agree with all your critiques on the way this collection is being released but I don't really get what you're going for here. A game on a disc is no different from a game on a cart, regardless of the need to install!
 

Vito

One Winged Slayer - Formerly Undead Fantasy
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,280
I agree with all your critiques on the way this collection is being released but I don't really get what you're going for here. A game on a disc is no different from a game on a cart, regardless of the need to install!
A game on the Switch doesn't need to install on the console to be played.
 

CloseTalker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
31,229
Still fucking bullshit. They should have used a 8GB to fit the first 3 games at least. Hopefully there's an Asian release with everything included.
If they won't include them all, then it doesn't really make sense to arbitrarily include just a couple of them. They should have just not done the physical release at all, it doesn't serve a purpose.
 

SixelAlexiS

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,776
Italy
Metal Gear Solid for PS1 is almost certainly that big since it will include every version ever released, so Japanese, American and European, which is a single different copy for every language (eg the Italian version of MGS only has the Italian language).
 

Vito

One Winged Slayer - Formerly Undead Fantasy
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,280
If they won't include them all, then it doesn't really make sense to arbitrarily include just a couple of them. They should have just not done the physical release at all, it doesn't serve a purpose.
3 out of 5 is still better than fucking 0.
 

CommodoreKong

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,761
wowwww, really defeats the purpose of a physical release at all - getting this on playstation is a no-brainer for me, but geez
i guess it's good to know MGS1 isn't just the PSX ISO apparently?



that's really shitty to hear as well, but does cast things in a different light

I always figured that it was very expensive to make a switch game card compared to a blu ray disk but I didn't even think that the prices may be going up.
 

IrishNinja

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,854
Vice City
I always figured that it was very expensive to make a switch game card compared to a blu ray disk but I didn't even think that the prices may be going up.

right? i get that everything's going up, didn't know it was that bad for a medium where so many scrape by as it is
i don't often peer behind the curtain, but the "constant manufacturing errors" of 64GB carts was also news to me
 
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Primal Sage

Primal Sage

Virtually Real
Member
Nov 27, 2017
9,905
I agree with all your critiques on the way this collection is being released but I don't really get what you're going for here. A game on a disc is no different from a game on a cart, regardless of the need to install!

It's better - storage wise. If a game on a PS5 disc is 16GB then you need 16GB of space on your SSD - the full disc content is always installed. If a Switch game is 16GB on the cart, then you need maybe 1GB of space on the Switch. The Switch game runs from the cart while a PS5 game only uses the disc as a validation key.
 

MisterHero

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,934
I should feel angry, but honestly a physical library on the portable Switch doesn't make a lot of sense (except for collecting sake). It was my mistake going into this generation.

That said I don't have broadband so whatever. Game collecting may be over for me.
 

Ada

Member
Nov 28, 2017
3,751
Blame Nintendo for using a proprietary storage format. 32-500GB SD cards are stupidly cheap now, meanwhile their cards are costing more to produce.
 

BassForever

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
30,039
CT
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Primal Sage

Primal Sage

Virtually Real
Member
Nov 27, 2017
9,905
I'm honestly curious as to what's on the Switch card then if they're not including any version of the game on there. Is it just the printed materials that were scanned into the game as well as the soundtrack galleries?

Maybe a launcher for the games. Still, quite a big launcher.

Those sizes are wrong. These are on the site:

Required Space
  • Physical Version : 24.1GB ( *Front loaded onto cartridge 2.4GB )
  • Metal Gear Solid- Master Collection Version : 4.8GB
  • excl. MG&MG2 : 3.4GB
  • incl. MG&MG2 : 4.8GB ( Metal Gear & Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake : 1.4GB )
  • Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty - Master Collection Version : 8.0GB
  • Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater - Master Collection Version : 12.2GB
  • Bonus Content : 1.0GB + 30 GB for bonus videos
Still fucking bullshit. They should have used a 8GB to fit the first 3 games at least. Hopefully there's an Asian release with everything included.

I was going to post those sizes (which actually makes it seem even worse). I presume you got them from here but after double checking on Konami's own site I found that the numbers were wrongly reported. Maybe Konami made a correction after the article on Finalwapon was posted. If you go here and scroll all the way to the bottom you find the updated numbers which I used in the OP.
 

Vito

One Winged Slayer - Formerly Undead Fantasy
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,280
Maybe a launcher for the games. Still, quite a big launcher.



I was going to post those sizes (which actually makes it seem even worse). I presume you got them from here but after double checking on Konami's own site I found that the numbers were wrongly reported. Maybe Konami made a correction after the article on Finalwapon was posted. If you go here and scroll all the way to the bottom you find the updated numbers.
Maybe the file size is that different because it's from EU?

Kinda wish they did a digital only release. That way LRG would be able to do a proper release.
 

Wereroku

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,347
What even is this take "blame Nintendo for using carts" as opposed to what? Is the portable Switch supposed to have a spinning blu ray player in the back? Carts are really the only way they could go.
I mean much like the vitas memory price issues. Nintendo could have gone with a non proprietary storage medium. Though raking in money on cart manufacturing was always a money maker for them.
 
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Primal Sage

Primal Sage

Virtually Real
Member
Nov 27, 2017
9,905
Maybe the file size is that different because it's from EU?

Oh damn, you're right. If you change the EU in the URL to US you get different sizes. That means the EU release is bigger due to the languages. Still doesn't excuse them from not using an 8GB cart. Or at least putting MGS1 on the 4GB cart in the US.

Here are the two versions' relevant differences:


US:
  • Physical Version : 24.1GB ( *Front loaded onto cartridge 2.4GB )
  • Metal Gear Solid- Master Collection Version : 4.8GB
  • excl. MG&MG2 : 3.4GB (<-----would fit on the cart)
  • incl. MG&MG2 : 4.8GB ( Metal Gear & Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake : 1.4GB )

EU:
  • Physical Version : 29.5GB ( *Front loaded onto cartridge 2.4GB )
  • Metal Gear Solid- Master Collection Version : 10.2GB
  • excl. MG&MG2 : 8.8GB
  • incl. MG&MG2 : 10.2GB ( Metal Gear & Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake : 1.4GB )
 
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Primal Sage

Primal Sage

Virtually Real
Member
Nov 27, 2017
9,905
I mean much like the vitas memory price issues. Nintendo could have gone with a non proprietary storage medium. Though raking in money on cart manufacturing was always a money maker for them.

Well, realistically they could not. Using a non proprietary storage medium for physical games would have made piracy waaaaay too easy.

Vita using proprietary memory cards was stupid. Switch at least lets you buy any brand of cheap SD card to use in your switch.
 

Vito

One Winged Slayer - Formerly Undead Fantasy
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,280
Oh damn, you're right. If you change the EU in the URL to US you get different sizes. That means the EU release is bigger due to the languages. Still doesn't excuse them from not using an 8GB cart. Or at least putting MGS1 on the 4GB cart in the US.

Here are the two versions' relevant differences:


US:
  • Physical Version : 24.1GB ( *Front loaded onto cartridge 2.4GB )
  • Metal Gear Solid- Master Collection Version : 4.8GB
  • excl. MG&MG2 : 3.4GB (<-----would fit on the cart)
  • incl. MG&MG2 : 4.8GB ( Metal Gear & Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake : 1.4GB )

EU:
  • Physical Version : 29.5GB ( *Front loaded onto cartridge 2.4GB )
  • Metal Gear Solid- Master Collection Version : 10.2GB
  • excl. MG&MG2 : 8.8GB
  • incl. MG&MG2 : 10.2GB ( Metal Gear & Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake : 1.4GB )
I still have hope for the Asian release lol.

In any case the PS5 version should be fine so it's not the end of the world.
 
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Primal Sage

Primal Sage

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Nov 27, 2017
9,905
I still have hope for the Asian release lol.

In any case the PS5 version should be fine so it's not the end of the world.

From my perspective, the PS5 version really is exactly the same :-D. Or rather, I don't really care that much that if not all the content was on the Bluray. To me a disc or a download - same thing. I still need to install to run the game and a download is often faster than a disc install (for me). It doesn't bother me because my disc based consoles are always online and the disc is just a key.

But my Switch isn't always online. I primarily play it handheld away from home and often in scenarios with no internet connection. That means I suddenly have to plan in advance if I want to play game X on the plane or in the cabin with the shitty internet. I have a case for my Switch which can hold up to 20 carts so I have almost all of my physical games with me when I go on a trip (or just commute for work). If I suddenly want to play Ori, I just pull out the cart and I'm playing in seconds. If I want to play AC: Rogue or any of the MGS games, I better have downloaded that game before getting the sudden urge to play it.

Which sucks.
 

Xterrian

Member
Apr 20, 2018
2,836
Nintendo's not forcing Konami to have a retail release which has literally nothing of value on the cart. Same with companies like 2k and the X-Com 2 collection having literally only one mission out of the box.

When you do this shit you're just wasting resources of your own, and the consumer's time and money.

No one's to blame here except Konami. You can make games exclusively digital and most people won't care much, if at all. Even the ones who would prefer to have a physical version.

There's no point in putting out a cart that doesn't even have a full game on it. Digital people won't get it, obviously. And the people who still buy physical will just be pissed that they have a useless cartridge.
 

Vito

One Winged Slayer - Formerly Undead Fantasy
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,280
From my perspective, the PS5 version really is exactly the same :-D. Or rather, I don't really care that much that if not all the content was on the Bluray. To me a disc or a download - same thing. I still need to install to run the game and a download is often faster than a disc install (for me). It doesn't bother me because my disc based consoles are always online and the disc is just a key.
Well, the PS5 version should be playable completely offline if everything is on the disc and that's ultimately the most important thing for me.

It's the whole point of physical media to me.
 
Nov 2, 2017
6,841
Shibuya
It's better - storage wise. If a game on a PS5 disc is 16GB then you need 16GB of space on your SSD - the full disc content is always installed. If a Switch game is 16GB on the cart, then you need maybe 1GB of space on the Switch. The Switch game runs from the cart while a PS5 game only uses the disc as a validation key.
I suppose it is a touch better in that way! I just don't agree with the "validation key" framing a lot of people argue for. That element is no different from having to have the cart in your switch and is functionally irrelevant imo.
 

Musubi

Unshakable Resolve - Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,783
Not really the main topic of the thread, but I am intrigued by MGS1 actually taking up more space than MGS2. It can't just be the PS1 ROM in an emulator wrapper then.
It is. Its Metal Gear Integral which had 3 discs with it. The two from the main game plus a third disc of VR missions which was released as standalone game in North America.
 

-Le Monde-

Avenger
Dec 8, 2017
12,613
Why even release a physical version for switch. Anyone can just print the cover, and use a case. -____-

Fortunately my plan is to get it on PS5(physical) , and on steam for portable action.
 
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Primal Sage

Primal Sage

Virtually Real
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Nov 27, 2017
9,905
I suppose it is a touch better in that way! I just don't agree with the "validation key" framing a lot of people argue for. That element is no different from having to have the cart in your switch and is functionally irrelevant imo.

Well, after having installed the contents of the disc, validation is literally the only thing you use the disc for. Whether you download a game from PSN or install from a disc, when you launch the game there is a validation key that lets you launch the game. That key is either on your PSN account or on the disc.

The switch cart is of course also a validation key - just one that does not require a full install.
 
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Primal Sage

Primal Sage

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Nov 27, 2017
9,905
Why even release a physical version for switch. Anyone can just print the cover, and use a case. -____-

Fortunately my plan is to get it on PS5(physical) , and on steam for portable action.

Well, even though you don't get the games on the cart, you can still resell it. You can't do that with the digital only version. And hey if it costs the same, why bother buying an empty case and finding a good printer. Gotta say, I am still tempted to get the physical even though I would never sell it, just because I love the series and would like the case on my shelf.
 
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Primal Sage

Primal Sage

Virtually Real
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Nov 27, 2017
9,905
It is. Its Metal Gear Integral which had 3 discs with it. The two from the main game plus a third disc of VR missions which was released as standalone game in North America.

It's probably just extra language versions since the US release is only 3.4GB. That includes the VR missions.
 

RedSwirl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,108
In 2017, shipping an 8GB Switch card cost the same as a PS4 disc. If prices have gone up since then, then the profit margins on physical Switch releases are pretty fucked compared to other consoles.