Noctis0Caelum

Member
Jan 20, 2023
66
Absolute facts. It never fails when it comes to remakes. The purists come out as if it's harming their beloved OG. Go play that and leave the remake to everyone else 🤣.


View: https://twitter.com/shinobi602/status/1717321404889141259?t=C2-nbuEXfV2Oo5MbjrOkYg&s=19

yep totally this. I`m vjust so tired of people who complaining about things are going to change anyway. Just like the trailer said it´s PRE-ALPHA guys. The most important thing in this stage are the assets and animations, the atmosphere can still change. '

Anyway I´m really impressed by how good the water looks like when snake´s moving.
 

Kapote

Member
Jul 3, 2019
616
I mean... it's a jungle. What people call art style for the original version are mostly workarounds due to the technical limitations of the era.

Being a "work around" doesn't negate the art choices. The technical limitations inform the art. Nothing is created 100% free of restraints.
 

kiguel182

Member
Oct 31, 2017
9,545
MGS3 was just going for realism, as much as the PS2 could achieve. The lighting was as realistic as they could make it, as were the textures.

MGS4 went for the same kind of realism, and so does MGSV. That's MGS' approach to the natural aspects of their world design.

I can't pick on any particular art direction MGS3 has other than its technical limitations.

The game has a very warm color grading and also some effects like bloom and depth of field that give it a filmic look.

I don't think remakes have to be strict and copy the art style but people are obviously free to comment if they look bland compared to the style of the original.

Konami made the original easily available so they can do whatever they want, I just find it weird that people get defensive that others find it bland.
 

eso76

Prophet of Truth
Member
Dec 8, 2017
8,335
It looks like they aren't yet comfortable showing Snake's face (looks like they are purposely hiding it from us for most part of the video) so I guess it's not 100% final.
I was expecting it to look different somewhat but I don't dislike what I saw at all.
Looks like it's going to be a while though.

And no, there's absolutely no way they could ever please all die hard fans (heck, I wasn't satisfied with the way Naked Snake looked in the HD remaster myself. The blurriness really helped masking the lack of detail on PS2).
They'll inevitably step on something some fans thought was absolutely crucial to the feel of the game.

Also, that vulture was the most impressive thing in the whole trailer.
 

Lucia

Member
Oct 18, 2021
1,372
Argentina
Absolute facts. It never fails when it comes to remakes. The purists come out as if it's harming their beloved OG. Go play that and leave the remake to everyone else 🤣.


View: https://twitter.com/shinobi602/status/1717321404889141259?t=C2-nbuEXfV2Oo5MbjrOkYg&s=19

SoTC and Demon's Souls are bad examples because they've essentially burried the original games since they're not accessible in current platforms. Cant appreciate the new take if the old one is being erased from the public.
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
54,085
Yes, it does. There's a lot of light leaking and the light propagation itself is - again - very dubious at times.
I can see these issues in pretty much every UE5 title using Lumen released thus far with the possible exception of Epic's own tech demos.
Fortnite isn't a tech demo and neither is Hellblade 2.
Immortals also looked fantastic even if the performance and IQ was subpar. And Lords of the Fallen also looks fantastic. Like anything else engine related, Lumen is a tool.

Read again, where have I mentioned MGS3?
The HD version of Shadow of the Colossus can be played on PS5 iirc
 

Odesu

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,633
I mean... it's a jungle. What people call art style for the original version are mostly workarounds

Some of y'all have so little respect or appreciation for the artistic intent or skill of these developers and artists it's wild. Do you think there weren't a dozen people spending months and years figuring out the very specific visual style of the game? With that being their very specific job?That it just happens by accident because, uh, ps2 is weak, I guess?
 

Mikch85

Member
May 12, 2018
3,695
Some of y'all have so little respect or appreciation for the artistic intent or skill of these developers and artists it's wild. Do you think there weren't a dozen people spending months and years figuring out the very specific visual style of the game? With that being their very specific job?That it just happens by accident because, uh, ps2 is weak, I guess?
Sure. Insulting devs and artists on the internet is my main hobby.
 

liquidtmd

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
6,178
SoTC and Demon's Souls are bad examples because they've essentially burried the original games since they're not accessible in current platforms. Cant appreciate the new take if the old one is being erased from the public.

Good point.

Equally with Resident 4 cited, notable that Resident Evils 1-3 aren't readily available really any more.

Fake edit: Resident Evil 1 I guess is up on PSN on Premium tier, however in PAL regions thats been screwed over by the 60hz version not being available
 

NinjaLooter

Member
Oct 1, 2023
809
Generalizing criticism as purist mindset isn't helping. I love the RE4 remake. I find both Demon's Souls and Shadow of the Colossus remakes to be technical marvels.

This, however, really looks like a fan made project. It's technically impressive, I'll give it that but going for the realistic look is such a waste.
 

NateDog

"This guy are sick"
Member
Jan 8, 2018
1,844
SoTC and Demon's Souls are bad examples because they've essentially burried the original games since they're not accessible in current platforms. Cant appreciate the new take if the old one is being erased from the public.
"Erased from the public" is very strong wording to describe something that simply isn't available in its original form on the newest systems, which is something that isn't completely wild (given only the early fat PS3 model had backwards compatibility, and the PS4 no backwards compatibility). SOTC is a fairly easy title to find second hand these days and isn't going for the high price it once did. There was also a HD Collection with it included for PS3 as well. Demon's Souls as well is easy to find for PS3 and was available digitally. Both consoles can be found easily and for very cheap prices all things considered. Would you say MGS4 is being "erased" just because it hasn't been made available on a different console than the PS3?
 

snausages

Member
Feb 12, 2018
10,566
"Erased from the public" is very strong wording to describe something that simply isn't available in its original form on the newest systems, which is something that isn't completely wild (given only the early fat PS3 model had backwards compatibility, and the PS4 no backwards compatibility). SOTC is a fairly easy title to find second hand these days and isn't going for the high price it once did. There was also a HD Collection with it included for PS3 as well. Demon's Souls as well is easy to find for PS3 and was available digitally. Both consoles can be found easily and for very cheap prices all things considered. Would you say MGS4 is being "erased" just because it hasn't been made available on a different console than the PS3?
They will inevitably become harder to get a hold of when the hardware they are supported on becomes harder to get/needs repairing, and especially if digital access is rescinded also.

MGS4 definitely counts in my mind as a game risking erasure. Though it's pretty likely that volume 2 of the master collection is going to have MGS4 on it so I'm not terribly concerned (to be completely honest, I think the game is shite anyway and have no interest in revisiting, lol)

Like these games are easy to access until they are not. Once upon a time it wouldn't have been hard to grab a copy of the PSX Resident Evil games, but nowadays not so much. You can get them on PSN on PS3, that's the last place as far as I know and I don't trust Sony to keep the PS3 store up for much longer given they already tried to shut it down

It's why PC ports are treated as such a big deal cause there's no real concept of generations (kinda)
 

NateDog

"This guy are sick"
Member
Jan 8, 2018
1,844
Why is Konami opting for this game and not the others for a remake?
Probably because it's generally perceived to be the most popular of the main games, and it's a good starting point given it's at the beginning of the main timeline.

They will inevitably become harder to get a hold of when the hardware they are supported on becomes harder to get/needs repairing, and especially if digital access is rescinded also.
Isn't that the same case for essentially any console game though? One of my earliest gaming memories is playing Sonic 2 on the Sega Master System, how easy is it to play that these days?

It's a shame MGS4 turned into what it did after Act 2, those first 2 acts were really fun to play I thought. Just became a bit of a chore afterwards.
 

Patitoloco

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
23,714
Why is Konami opting for this game and not the others for a remake?
Because it's fairly standalone, doesn't need an enormous design remake like MGS1 (which Twin Snakes show you can't just put new mechanics and leave everything else the same, it won't work) and in terms of story it's somewhat detached with the rest of the series.
 

Odesu

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,633
Generalizing criticism as purist mindset isn't helping. I love the RE4 remake. I find both Demon's Souls and Shadow of the Colossus remakes to be technical marvels.

This, however, really looks like a fan made project. It's technically impressive, I'll give it that but going for the realistic look is such a waste.

This is where I'm at.

Plus, I actually don't really thing this is that technically impressive. When I look at Alan Wake 2, that is technically impressive. This, to me, looks like an extremely pretty PS4 game but nothing that screams Next-Gen exclusivity to me.
 
Apr 9, 2018
1,502
That's a pretty looking game, and regarding the direction I had always assumed that MGS 1-V were always striving for realism but to the closest approximation given the technical constraints of the time.

Looks like crouch walking is in, so I wonder if we'll get a 3DS/PW style third person controls

SoTC and Demon's Souls are bad examples because they've essentially burried the original games since they're not accessible in current platforms. Cant appreciate the new take if the old one is being erased from the public.
I would say they're bad examples too because they do change the art direction significantly. For SotC it was from surrealism to realism, we actually have the Last Guardian as a blueprint of how a modern take on SotC art style should/would look. For Demons Souls, it's the changes to the enemy designs, that skew it closer to a standard western fantasy aesthetic than its heavily western-inspired aesthetic from the original, which dilutes its unique flavour.
 

snausages

Member
Feb 12, 2018
10,566
Probably because it's generally perceived to be the most popular of the main games, and it's a good starting point given it's at the beginning of the main timeline.

Isn't that the same case for essentially any console game though? One of my earliest gaming memories is playing Sonic 2 on the Sega Master System, how easy is it to play that these days?
I think you can play that on this

store.steampowered.com

Sonic Origins on Steam

Experience the collected adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog in Sonic Origins Plus! With 16 legendary Sonic titles, including 12 Game Gear games, new playable characters, modes, challenges, behind-the-scenes content, and more, this is the definitive way to play these classic games!

Well, the Genesis/Mega Drive version at least. I don't know what differences there are in the Master System one
 

signal

Member
Oct 28, 2017
40,465
GUYaW3J.jpg


but HD
 

NateDog

"This guy are sick"
Member
Jan 8, 2018
1,844
I think you can play that on this
I have been duped! Still I don't think I'd feel like saying a company is trying to get rid of a previous iteration or version of a game because it's not straightforward to access. We're in a different age now to what we used to be with digital libraries and markets/vendors but even though I'm one of those that much prefers the original SOTC and how it looked, I've never felt like anyone was trying to mark the remaster of it as a definitive version or that they were trying to close off any history of the original.
 

Ricen-Beans

Member
Oct 27, 2017
307
5C16CCAA30510FDE7785CD677372BE5BEEA9F06E
pw-2020-01-20_23-48-50-20.jpg
69542eb661b538afc6720b4283f7d587.jpg


Similar traits like having a kind of pointy/wide nose and cheek bones, but even accounting for differences in hardware, they have different faces.

Same with Young Snake in MGS4.

koyqcljqciq91.png


Sure, you could say it doesn't count because it's Solid Snake and not Naked Snake, but all the Snakes have the same exact fact. Hell, the Delta Naked Snake looks more like a modern rendition of MGS4 to me now that I look at it.
Thanks for putting in the work and actually posting screenshots. I see the differences from Snake to Snake, but somehow I still don't like the Delta Snake lol. I know it's alpha footage and it'll improve. Once I actually play the game I'll get over the looks I'm sure.
 

XVerdena

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,943
"It feels soulless"

The hell is wrong with people? It is a jungle ffs, it looks exactly like the original with modern graphics. Isn't this what we all wanted?
 
Oct 28, 2017
2,468
Thanks for putting in the work and actually posting screenshots. I see the differences from Snake to Snake, but somehow I still don't like the Delta Snake lol. I know it's alpha footage and it'll improve. Once I actually play the game I'll get over the looks I'm sure.

I feel like when you go from lower fidelity to higher fidelity, prior to that increase in detail, your brain sort of fills in the blanks as to how that character might look, and when that increase occurs and you see the higher detailed character, if it doesn't match those subconscious expectations, it feels weird. the same thing happened with nathan drake in uncharted 4
 

Orioto

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,716
Paris
Lots of condescending posts to blame doubters ... It's not that simple. It's not cold cause it's realistic, or cause it's different from the original colors.
It's cold cause there is no strong light direction and it could be more cinematic or atmospheric. It looks "out of the engine" without any real transformation.
Realism means nothing.. Movies are reals, with real actors, that doesn't mean they all look the same...
 

Ricen-Beans

Member
Oct 27, 2017
307
I feel like when you go from lower fidelity to higher fidelity, prior to that increase in detail, your brain sort of fills in the blanks as to how that character might look, and when that increase occurs and you see the higher detailed character, if it doesn't match those subconscious expectations, it feels weird. the same thing happened with nathan drake in uncharted 4
Yes! Totally agree with this. When I first saw the Uncharted 4 trailer I literally said out loud "Is that supposed to be Drake?" lol.

Thank you to all for the civil discussion. I'm looking forward to the game!
 

EvilBoris

Prophet of Truth - HDTVtest
Verified
Oct 29, 2017
16,787
Thanks for putting in the work and actually posting screenshots. I see the differences from Snake to Snake, but somehow I still don't like the Delta Snake lol. I know it's alpha footage and it'll improve. Once I actually play the game I'll get over the looks I'm sure.
Delta Snake has 100% been made in Unreal Metahuman which is why he looks like a generic white dude, rather than the Snakes we know with their distinctive facial profile.
 

Tornak

Member
Feb 7, 2018
8,450
I'm super nitpicky re: character updates; hell, I didn't buy SotC Remake or FF VIII Remastered because of how they butchered Wander and Squall... but Snake looks rather good here. Maybe some more sharpness to his features is needed, but yeah.

Graphically it's impressive and they did great with the animations, but I'll echo some of the colour grading complaints: it not being, in some areas, as dramatic as in the OG bums me out. Now, as posted earlier, some areas do look more "drastic".

It's not as simple as slapping a filter on, but I hope they look into trying to "match" the palettes better. Even as a kid, I always felt that MGS3 had a very interesting warm look, one that immediately came to my mind when I thought of the game (same as with the colder styles of MGS1 and 2).
 

Igor

Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,489
Yeah I don't know what's the reasoning for releasing Alpha footage - Konami has lost a ton of good faith over the years especially around MGS - and it's not that it looks bad for alpha (it doesn't!) - but it looks completely devoid of art direction and in light of lacklustre Remaster Vol.1... they kinda deserve the flak they are getting. The franchise deserves better. The apologists will buy it anyway though.

It can still be made less sterile but I don't think this is the footage to excite with, not to me anyway. It's poor marketing material.
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
54,085
Not yet, first we need a youtuber telling us that isnt actually Snake but its Gray Fox going through a VR training of Operation Snake Eater. And somehow this is actually Kojima master plan in Death Stranding 2 which is actually Silent Hills reborn.
I still remember that super super super long post explaining that MGSV was all an simulation created by AI 😭
 

DarkJ

Member
Nov 11, 2017
1,169
I'm not sure what part about being realistic people don't like? I get MGS3 has lighting and all the other Kojima pazazz that may be different by the time this game comes out. But how was MGS3 not going for as much realism as the PS2 can handle? It's a different tone to these areas for sure but it was still realistic.

Like in my head I picture non-realistic to mean Yoshis Island not MGS3 haha.