Metro Exodus for PC a timed exclusive for the Epic store (Steam preorders honoured, physical copy with Epic key). [READ staff post]

Oct 25, 2017
3,861
I wouldn't even say the start is that great. "Plus, you have to install Epic launcher and it might be inconvenient for people as well." isn't really the fucking point, and neither is the fact that this is new to people.

It just gets worse from there.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,287
I despise these threats where devs or publishers basically tell you "hey, we did s.th. fucky but don't you dare let it cost us any sales. Otherwise, we'll draw dumb conclusions and cease development of further titles!"

The notion that they basically purposely misinterpret the reasons for backlash and lower sales is pathetic. Of course, that sort of threat is just a farce because they'd rather keep selling and tackle the actual problem the next time around. But threats like that are easy to shout out and boy do fanboys scared of losing their precious franchise love to buy into it and perpetuate this nonsense.
 
Aug 23, 2018
948
"I have a conflicting opinion about this whole shitstorm. On one hand I can see why some people will be displeased with this move. Nobody ever did something like that before, it's new to people, and as with all things new some people will be ineviatably angered. Plus, you have to install Epic launcher and it might be inconvenient for people as well.

On the other hand reactions from some gamers (threats of piracy and all that) is hardly adequte. It seems like these people were looking for an excuse to spread shit and hate. So, we (developers) spent years of our life trying to create something unique, but some gamers out there think all our hard work doesn't deserve a minute of their time to install another launcher. This is their right of course, but why the hell then they're still talking about Metro. It's obvious they don't care about it. I can only say one thing, these people, they're not our fanbase. Why should I care about their opinion?

But, let's dig deeper. Some people think that if they continue to talk shit about Metro it'll make a world a better place, that it'll show to the greedy devs. I'll say this, if, hypothetically Exodus underperforms on PC, then, in the worst case scenario, the next installment will be a console exclusive. If it's for the best or worst I don't know, make your own judgement. I only know one thing, people who say shit about us are incapable of creating something great."

That's the relevant part, if needed.
This translation, if accurate, is far more benign than the backlash here had led me to believe.
He’s mostly right. People posting threats and talking about piracy are weird. And folks who are going to boycott the game should ideally just pretend the game doesn’t exist.
 
Oct 25, 2017
11,878
I wouldn't even say the start is that great. "Plus, you have to install Epic launcher and it might be inconvenient for people as well." isn't really the fucking point, and neither is the fact that this is new to people.

It just gets worse from there.
I guess I more so meant it's not like the google translate version which made it sound more accusatory around piracy. They start out a bit defensive which okay I'll give them a bit of sympathy for feeling defensive around this shit-storm. But they end going way over the top and the contents of that last paragraph will get meme'd and torn to shreds.

This translation, if accurate, is far more benign than the backlash here had led me to believe.
He’s 100% right. People posting threats and talking about piracy are weird. And folks who are going to boycott the game should ideally just pretend the game doesn’t exist.
Companies claim they want to hear feedback, especially feedback around why someone will consider buying or won't considering buying. Can't have it both ways when the feedback is negative claiming "just shutup and pretend the game/decision we made doesn't exist".
 
Oct 27, 2017
600
What does this even mean? Even when they weren’t making PC games, they still kept improving the Unreal Engine platform, and engine that powers a healthy chunk of PC games.

I’m not sure why many here keep painting the picture of PC gamers as an angry collective that’s all to eager to hold a grudge for perceived slights.
https://www.engadget.com/2010/05/18/epics-mike-capps-pc-piracy-changed-our-business-model/

They shifted over to primarily focus on console development while blaming bad PC sales on piracy a number of years ago. This was Seen as a bogus excuse for many reasons.Now that the space is largely rejuvenated, they want their piece of the pie and are forcing their way into the market in a way myself and many others think is intrusive.

Pc gamers are not a hive mind and I’m not pretending to speak on your or anyone else’s behalf nor am I endorsing piracy.
 

Rose

Member
Feb 2, 2019
1
The translation is incorrect. The part that everyone's talking about is this:

"Но! Рассмотрим ситуацию глубже. Кто-то говорит, что мол обосрав Исход и попутно предыдущие игры серии, он тем самым сделает мир лучше, мол поставит на место жадных разработчиков. На это могу ответить, что в крайнем случае, если вообще все ПК игроки обьявят бойкот Метро, то следующее метро если и выйдет, то точно не на ПК. Лучше от этого будет или хуже, решайте сами. Мне лично будет жалко преданных фанатов, да. Но моей оценки проделаной лично мной и моими друзьями и колегами работы это не поменяет. Я твёрдо знаю, что почти все кто льёт эту грязь в сети, неспособны и на частичку того, что мы сделали и надеюсь, сделаем ещё. А значит - понятия не имеют о чём говорят. "

The correct translation is:
"But! Let's have a closer look at the situation. Some say that having shit on Exodus and the previous games of the series on the way, they will make the world better, sort of putting the greedy developers to their place. To this I can say that at worst, if every single PC player boycotts Metro, then the next metro will certainly not be on PC if it comes out. You decide if it's for the better or for the worse. Personally, yes, I would feel bad for every loyal fan. But it would not affect my evaluation of my personal work and that of my friends and colleagues. I know for sure that nearly everyone that throws this dirt online is incapable of doing even a fraction of what we have done and hopefully are yet to do. So this means that they have no idea what they're talking about."
 
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Oct 26, 2017
5,206
Seems a little weird to me, still. I'd have though that Deep Silver would be the ones to make platform decisions for future Metro games, much like it was their decision to pull the Steam release. It would not be an individual dev at 4A that would make that kind of decision. Unless this kind of thing was put out as an official studio communication, I'd not put much stock in it.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,170
What does this even mean? Even when they weren’t making PC games, they still kept improving the Unreal Engine platform, and engine that powers a healthy chunk of PC games.

I’m not sure why many here keep painting the picture of PC gamers as an angry collective that’s all to eager to hold a grudge for perceived slights.
Please don’t pretend ignorance, you have been in these Epic threads since from the start.

And Epic’s history with PC gaming has been brought up before. It’s well known they abandoned PC gaming and said the reason was piracy.

Feigning ignorance to attack PC gamers is not going to work.
 
Nov 1, 2017
3,777
Eastern US
This translation, if accurate, is far more benign than the backlash here had led me to believe.
He’s mostly right. People posting threats and talking about piracy are weird. And folks who are going to boycott the game should ideally just pretend the game doesn’t exist.
Why should I pretend that? I liked the first two games. Bought them on multiple platforms even (tried to play FPS on console and that was a failure on my part).

So yeah, I like the previous games, I would play the new one, but I despise the decision process and moneyhatting that happened here. So yeah, not planning to purchase this game. Maybe for under $20 if it comes to Steam in couple years.

Compare that to new Subnautica that released on both Epic and Steam that I happily picked up.

People don't mind that the game released on Epic store but the anti-consumer attitude of everyone involved is bullshit.
 
Aug 23, 2018
948
https://www.engadget.com/2010/05/18/epics-mike-capps-pc-piracy-changed-our-business-model/

They shifted over to primarily focus on console development while blaming bad PC sales on piracy a number of years ago. This was Seen as a bogus excuse for many reasons.Now that the space is largely rejuvenated, they want their piece of the pie and are forcing their way into the market in a way myself and many others think is intrusive.

Pc gamers are not a hive mind and I’m not pretending to speak on your or anyone else’s behalf nor am I endorsing piracy.
They were well and truly back in the PC development space with Fortnite. Surely you’ve heard of the game?
The Epic game store doesn’t have anything to do with Epic game development, so I fail to see what point you guys are making.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,170
They were well and truly back in the PC development space with Fortnite. Surely you’ve heard of the game?
The Epic game store doesn’t have anything to do with Epic game development, so I fail to see what point you guys are making.
One single game that is also on consoles is back in the PC development?

After canceling all other games being released? Including a long standing PC franchise?

the Epic game development has nothing to do with the game store? So they aren’t spending their fortnite money here?

Funny how you didn’t acknowledged their attack on PC gamers and calling them all pirates.
 
Oct 27, 2017
600
They were well and truly back in the PC development space with Fortnite. Surely you’ve heard of the game?
The Epic game store doesn’t have anything to do with Epic game development, so I fail to see what point you guys are making.
You realize both of those things are the same company right
 
Aug 23, 2018
948
Why should I pretend that? I liked the first two games. Bought them on multiple platforms even (tried to play FPS on console and that was a failure on my part).

So yeah, I like the previous games, I would play the new one, but I despise the decision process and moneyhatting that happened here. So yeah, not planning to purchase this game. Maybe for under $20 if it comes to Steam in couple years.

Compare that to new Subnautica that released on both Epic and Steam that I happily picked up.

People don't mind that the game released on Epic store but the anti-consumer attitude of everyone involved is bullshit.
And the dev is fine with this attitude! Wait until the Steam release if you must.
What he rightly calls out are the folks constantly heckling on social media, review bombing older games, posting personal threats and repeated proclamations of plans to pirate the game.

Developers are human beings. Why the faux outrage here that a dev is tired of receiving toxic abuse over a business decision made by his publisher?
 
Oct 26, 2017
646
Sweden
Someone should make an ”Epic Store problem FAQ” that we can link to every time someone comes into the thread and doesn’t understand the problem.

First we have what is basically an unwillingness to support the whole thing Epic is doing. The whole idea of exclusivity deals, and especially when the games are already up on the Steam store but get yanked off from there. And Metro is the absolute worst one, since it was even up for pre-orders before the sudden switch so very close to launch.
It’s not the same as announcing an upcoming game (that did not have a ”shelf space” on Steam) as a store exclusive. This is more like going into a game store, pulling the game out of someone’s hands and putting it on the shelf of another store with other rules.

Then we have the security problem. Yet another company you have to trust with sensitive information, and this company in particular is a huge target (due to Fortnite) and has had some huge security issues before. It’s not just ”installing a launcher”, you have to actually buy the game too.

And then we come to the availability issues, not even being able to buy it in certain regions and not being able to use the store at all if you use Linux (an OS that Steam is supporting a lot from what I understand). In some regions you might still be able to buy it, but it is now more expensive than it was before. Some others got really good prices tho and no one really know where this will end because Epic is apparently scrambling to implement some regional pricing. But for now the pricing can be a big problem depending on where you live.
Another availability issue seems to be lack of an offline mode. To launch some games or even see your library, you and the Epic servers have to be online.

The lack of forums and reviews is a big point. People are going to the Steam forums to get help with problems in games you cannot buy on Steam (yet).

And then we come to the features, or rather the lack of them.
Some refuse to buy games without achievements, some couldn’t care less. Some use the community features a whole lot (friend activity, sharing of screenshots and such) while other basically don’t even know of their existence.
Controller support, cloud saves, modding. There are a bunch of stuff that are more or less important to people. The one I do not want to let go of if I have any kind of choice is Family Sharing.

Do I buy games on other stores and use other launchers? Yes, for first party exclusives that I really want. No they don’t have the features I want but I can take that for these games. The prices are great (thanks to an Origin sale I just got the newest Sims 4 expansion for just over 10€) and I trust these companies.

Do I trust Epic? Nope, neither with keeping my information safe nor their ability to turn their store into something that has even the basic of features. Do I want to support their anti-consumer way of doing things? No.

I am not a Steam-only person (altho I am close to being that), I just don’t want to support Epic at all.
 
Aug 23, 2018
948
One single game that is also on consoles is back in the PC development?

After canceling all other games being released? Including a long standing PC franchise?
Ironically, this (nearly) perfectly describes Valve. DOTA2 was ages ago, and Artifact is a niche dud.
Fans clamor for more Half-life has gone unanswered.


Funny how you didn’t acknowledged their attack on PC gamers and calling them all pirates.
I don’t ‘acknowledge’ things that never happened. There is no universe where saying ‘piracy is a big problem on PC’ means ‘all PC gamers are pirates’.
Let’s try to argue in good faith, with facts please.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,170
Ironically, this (nearly) perfectly describes Valve. DOTA2 was ages ago, and Artifact is a niche dud.
Fans clamor for more Half-life has gone unanswered.




I don’t ‘acknowledge’ things that never happened. There is no universe where saying ‘piracy is a big problem on PC’ means ‘all PC gamers are pirates’.
Let’s try to argue in good faith, with facts please.
well epic thought there weren’t enough non-pirates to sell for an entire plateform.

Until they decided that they have enough money to start buying exclusive for a store with no features in 2019.

And you speaking about good faith is rich.

Also funny how you discount a game that isn’t doing well but excuse Epic. Nice double standards.

Valve has still made more games on PC then Epic in the same timeframe. So your argument is specious.
 
Oct 27, 2017
600
Ironically, this (nearly) perfectly describes Valve. DOTA2 was ages ago, and Artifact is a niche dud.
Fans clamor for more Half-life has gone unanswered.
valve and their platform did more than pretty much any other company to help PC gaming become as big as it is now. what are you even talking about?
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,170
valve and their platform did more than pretty much any other company to help PC gaming become as big as it is now. what are you even talking about?
Growing the PC market with a feature rich store is the same as coming in with a featureless store with bought exclusives after years of abandoning the plateform due to piracy.

A piracy problem that Valve solved.

Exactly the same.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,861
Review bombing is important because otherwise developers don't get the message and just go "well, guess people on PC don't want this!". However, in this case it seems like they didn't even get the message then so who knows any more.

I don't even like the name review bombing for this. What ever happened to just calling it "giving negative feedback".

Ironically, this (nearly) perfectly describes Valve. DOTA2 was ages ago, and Artifact is a niche dud.
Fans clamor for more Half-life has gone unanswered.




I don’t ‘acknowledge’ things that never happened. There is no universe where saying ‘piracy is a big problem on PC’ means ‘all PC gamers are pirates’.
Let’s try to argue in good faith, with facts please.
Because Valve haven't done anything else since Dota2 except Artifact.

Proton doesn't exist
The Steam runtime doesn't exist
Universal controller support doesn't exist
Big Picture Mode doesn't exist
SteamOS doesn't exist
All their FOSS contributions like SDL2 don't exist
Their work in VR doesn't exist.

What even is your argument. Valve have done more for PC gaming than absolutely any other company.
 

Durante

Dark Souls Man
Member
Oct 24, 2017
4,501
And folks who are going to boycott the game should ideally just pretend the game doesn’t exist.
Ideally for whom?

I'll continue to ascertain that the game both does exist and that I'll specifically refuse to play it due to publisher behavior, and I'll happily argue for that position with anyone.

Fans clamor for more Half-life has gone unanswered.
Boo-fucking-hoo. Epic stopped development on the new UT, which of all their franchises is actually the closest to what HL is for Valve in this situation.
Sucks for their fans, but it's not a big deal in the grand scheme of things.

Individual games are not even remotely as important as the basics of what it means to publish on PC, and what behavior is or is not acceptable in that regard.
 
Oct 25, 2017
721
Portugal
Ironically, this (nearly) perfectly describes Valve. DOTA2 was ages ago, and Artifact is a niche dud.
Fans clamor for more Half-life has gone unanswered.
Huh... They're not similar situations at all.
Valve's only recent game may be Artifact, but their existing multiplayer games are still under active development (DOTA 2, CS GO). Sure there was no sequel to HL2 Ep2 even though that ended in a cliffhanger, but there was no version of Ep3/HL3 available to the public that got canceled.
Meanwhile Epic, while it was in early access, Unreal Tournament was available to the public, but since Fortnite is a golden chicken, they just abandoned UT's development (then there's Paragon).

Still, this is unrelated to the topic about Epic bribing 3rd party publishers/developers for timed exclusivity.
 
Dec 30, 2018
304
So let me get this straight, they pull an anti-consumer move by locking the game behind one store for a time limited period, then they tell people "If you don't buy this game, the next one will not come out on PC"

Yeah, that's a no from me, will not be held hostage because two companies join together in greed and want to screw the consumer over.

I don't like epic store, it's not because I want steam to be the only competitor either, it's because I believe people should have the choice as to where to buy their products and any company that limits that choice is anti-consumer as far as I am concerned.

Not that I buy Apple products anyway but can you imagine if a company like Apple started only selling their phones at Apple stores? Or if Microsoft only let you purchase the Xbox directly from them?

Or you know...locked their games behind windows store on PC...because we all know how well that went down.

I believe that companies should not limit where their product is purchased but instead give people a reason to buy from their stores, that's a pro consumer approach, not the way Epic are doing it, that's a big red flag and huge reason to not buy from their store for me.

Will they listen though? Or will they just threaten consumers like 4A are doing here?
 
Oct 26, 2017
4,912
If that dev post is legit, and that is a big 'if', someone should explain to this person that blackmailing the audience is going to backfire spectacularly.
 
Dec 30, 2018
304
Someone should make an ”Epic Store problem FAQ” that we can link to every time someone comes into the thread and doesn’t understand the problem.

First we have what is basically an unwillingness to support the whole thing Epic is doing. The whole idea of exclusivity deals, and especially when the games are already up on the Steam store but get yanked off from there. And Metro is the absolute worst one, since it was even up for pre-orders before the sudden switch so very close to launch.
It’s not the same as announcing an upcoming game (that did not have a ”shelf space” on Steam) as a store exclusive. This is more like going into a game store, pulling the game out of someone’s hands and putting it on the shelf of another store with other rules.

Then we have the security problem. Yet another company you have to trust with sensitive information, and this company in particular is a huge target (due to Fortnite) and has had some huge security issues before. It’s not just ”installing a launcher”, you have to actually buy the game too.

And then we come to the availability issues, not even being able to buy it in certain regions and not being able to use the store at all if you use Linux (an OS that Steam is supporting a lot from what I understand). In some regions you might still be able to buy it, but it is now more expensive than it was before. Some others got really good prices tho and no one really know where this will end because Epic is apparently scrambling to implement some regional pricing. But for now the pricing can be a big problem depending on where you live.
Another availability issue seems to be lack of an offline mode. To launch some games or even see your library, you and the Epic servers have to be online.

The lack of forums and reviews is a big point. People are going to the Steam forums to get help with problems in games you cannot buy on Steam (yet).

And then we come to the features, or rather the lack of them.
Some refuse to buy games without achievements, some couldn’t care less. Some use the community features a whole lot (friend activity, sharing of screenshots and such) while other basically don’t even know of their existence.
Controller support, cloud saves, modding. There are a bunch of stuff that are more or less important to people. The one I do not want to let go of if I have any kind of choice is Family Sharing.

Do I buy games on other stores and use other launchers? Yes, for first party exclusives that I really want. No they don’t have the features I want but I can take that for these games. The prices are great (thanks to an Origin sale I just got the newest Sims 4 expansion for just over 10€) and I trust these companies.

Do I trust Epic? Nope, neither with keeping my information safe nor their ability to turn their store into something that has even the basic of features. Do I want to support their anti-consumer way of doing things? No.

I am not a Steam-only person (altho I am close to being that), I just don’t want to support Epic at all.
This is another great point and I can speak from personal experience here.

About 5 months ago I opened an account for Fortnite, I played it a few times to see what all the hype was about and I didn't like it, fair enough some people do but me personally, I didn't.

So I uninstalled it and forgot about it, that was until I started getting email after email about how an individual was trying to access my account, I tried to find a way to close my account and it was damn near impossible, numerous people have complained about this as well.

Well to cut a long story short, after finally finding their email address and then emailing them for 3 months pretty much once every week and having numerous replies from them saying they were "passing it on to their account closure department" I finally got it shut down.

Now I can only speak for myself here but that's not a company I trust my personal details with.
 
Jan 27, 2018
2,011
valve and their platform did more than pretty much any other company to help PC gaming become as big as it is now. what are you even talking about?
Not to mention Epic are only back on PC because of Steam, if it wasn't for Steam, they would still be on Consoles & quietly not saying a thing about the 30% fee Sony & MS demand.
 
Nov 1, 2017
1,096
This is another great point and I can speak from personal experience here.

About 5 months ago I opened an account for Fortnite, I played it a few times to see what all the hype was about and I didn't like it, fair enough some people do but me personally, I didn't.

So I uninstalled it and forgot about it, that was until I started getting email after email about how an individual was trying to access my account, I tried to find a way to close my account and it was damn near impossible, numerous people have complained about this as well.

Well to cut a long story short, after finally finding their email address and then emailing them for 3 months pretty much once every week and having numerous replies from them saying they were "passing it on to their account closure department" I finally got it shut down.

Now I can only speak for myself here but that's not a company I trust my personal details with.
This happened to me too, my account was created to play Paragon, when fortnite exploded I got every fucking day mail about login attempts, had to wait 2 months from the support to get my account deleted.
 
Aug 23, 2018
948
valve and their platform did more than pretty much any other company to help PC gaming become as big as it is now. what are you even talking about?
What? They've done more for PC gaming than anyone else.
C'mon guys. It's not that hard to read up. My post was CLEARLY part of a discussion about PC game releases. The guy's follow up response even is in that vein.
 
Nov 1, 2017
1,096
C'mon guys. It's not that hard to read up. My post was CLEARLY part of a discussion about PC game releases. The guy's follow up response even is in that vein.
Valve has 2 service games getting updates and tournaments, epic has only one and has cancelled both UT and paragon.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,861
C'mon guys. It's not that hard to read up. My post was CLEARLY part of a discussion about PC game releases. The guy's follow up response even is in that vein.
Even then, they have The Lab, along with constant large updates for 2 service games. That's more than what Epic have done. We also know there are other games in the works, and there's in the valley of gods this year.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,354
I don't get it. Threatening to just stop releasing your games on pc just feels like a bad move. So many games are released anymore that its easy to skip stuff. Decisions like this makes it even easier. Like, what?

Then again, I highly doubt this person speaks for the studio.
 
Nov 1, 2017
1,096
Oct 25, 2017
483
The new UT was cancelled anyway.
the series they just finished killing?
Amusing example you brought up, for sure.
Hahaha
"Since July 2017, there have been no new updates. The bulk of the developer team has since transitioned to develop and maintain Fortnite Battle Royale.[11] Development of Unreal Tournament was confirmed to be halted indefinitely in December 2018, though the game will remain available in its current state to play.[12] "
so when i pointed out that the original post saying "Epic is only on PC because of Steam" is completely false, the response is BUT THEY CANCELLED A GAME!!!!!!

is that supposed to be some sort of smear against epic? that they stopped developing a game in open beta that never caught on and nobody played? you expect people to believe that Steam is the only reason Epic put out PC games ever even though they were a PC dev well before Steam even existed? Or how about Fortnite or Shadow Complex? Both of those games out recently. Neither were on Steam.
 
Jan 27, 2018
2,011
so when i pointed out that the original post saying "Epic is only on PC because of Steam" is completely false, the response is BUT THEY CANCELLED A GAME!!!!!!

is that supposed to be some sort of smear against epic? that they stopped developing a game in open beta that never caught on and nobody played? you expect people to believe that Steam is the only reason Epic put out PC games ever even though they were a PC dev well before Steam even existed? Or how about Fortnite or Shadow Complex? Both of those games out recently. Neither were on Steam.
Gen 7 happened, Microsoft paid them to make Gears exclusive, then baited PC gamers with a port of 1 but not the sequels, on top of that lots of PR disasters, calling PC gamers pirates & telling them the money is on Consoles, then when Bulletstorm bombed on Consoles, they tried to blame it on PC piracy to their investors.
 
Oct 25, 2017
483
Gen 7 happened, Microsoft paid them to make Gears exclusive, then baited PC gamers with a port of 1 but not the sequels, on top of that lots of PR disasters, calling PC gamers pirates & telling them the money is on Consoles, then when Bulletstorm bombed on Consoles, they tried to blame it on PC piracy to their investors.
and then they put out games on PC afterwards anyways that weren't on steam

somehow you're trying to move the goalposts from your wrong assertion that steam is the only reason Epic has put games on PC to "Epic treats PC gamers bad"

and even that latter point is a hard sell
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,861
so when i pointed out that the original post saying "Epic is only on PC because of Steam" is completely false, the response is BUT THEY CANCELLED A GAME!!!!!!

is that supposed to be some sort of smear against epic? that they stopped developing a game in open beta that never caught on and nobody played? you expect people to believe that Steam is the only reason Epic put out PC games ever even though they were a PC dev well before Steam even existed? Or how about Fortnite or Shadow Complex? Both of those games out recently. Neither were on Steam.
Nobody said Steam is the only reason why Epic put out PC games. They said Steam is the only reason Epic started focusing on it again, after mostly abandoning the platform in the mid 2000's and calling PC gamers out for being pirates in the process.

Steam significantly reduced piracy and made the PC market grow to what it is today, and now Epic want part of that pie. It really shouldn't be hard to understand that.