Metroid Prime PC Port Via Engine Rewrite (Update: 2½ Hours of Gameplay)

Dancrane212 · Sep 12, 2018

Dancrane212 said:
New gameplay.

___

Developer on C&D concerns raised in this thread.

We are not fearful of retribution from Nintendo for various reasons, the primary being that if we worry about what could happen everyday we'd never get anything done. Another is that precident is in our favor, while Nintendo certainly could C&D us, the likelihood of that actually happening is next to zero. Also, since we're not distributing any of their assets we're not breaking any laws, so from a fair-use standpoint we're in the clear. Finally, I see mention of "Clean Room" reverse engineering, while we're not using the traditional methods (one team analyzing, another reimplementing), we're reducing Nintendo's legal footprint as much as possible by only recreating as close to 1:1 the subystems that would not behave properly otherwise.

In conclusion, while Nintendo certainly could C&D us, we're not going to let that rule our lives, but we're also not going to give Nintendo any ammo to come after us (we're not asking for donations, nor are we asking for monetary compensation).

Our source code will always be public for audits.

Built from decompiling the code of the original game and reinterpreting it for modem PCs. It's a standalone engine that doesn't contain any Prime assets (source port).

To simplify: this is just a bundle of code that you will slot Metroid Prime into. On its own it has nothing from Metroid Prime in it just like other source ports like OpenMW.

Real impressive stuff!

Abcdude · Sep 12, 2018

Take down in 3 2 1

Shoe · Sep 12, 2018

Been following this project for quite a while - super impressed with the Prime engine reverse engineering effort! Fools will say that it's no different than Dolphin, but this will run natively on far inferior hardware, and is a greater resource for the burgeoning Prime hacking community.

neon_dream · Sep 12, 2018

I would play the hell out of Metroid Prime with a mouse.

Deleted member 1413 · Sep 12, 2018

Essentially just a lot of effort for piracy when you could just dump your copy and play on dolphin

Jazzem · Sep 12, 2018

Bloody hell, that's astonishing =O

But err yeah could be getting a cease and desist very easily sadly. Is a shame as mouse + keyboard Metroid Prime would be a treat

Eila · Sep 12, 2018

WHAT
inb4 C&D

shotgunbob04 · Sep 12, 2018

So let's say this is bug-free. Would it be a better experience to play the game through this or through Dolphin?

Deleted member 1849 · Sep 12, 2018

So this will be an engine reimplementation like CorsixTH and need the original game assets to be practical?

Awesome. I'm looking forward to this

wwm0nkey · Sep 12, 2018

Cartridge Games said:
Essentially just a lot of effort for piracy when you could just dump your copy and play on dolphin

I mean, this is pretty impressive still.

Dancrane212 · Sep 12, 2018

Shoe said:
Been following this project for quite a while - real impressive stuff!

Reading exchanges with one of the devs and Jack Matthews on Twitter about why certain things are the way they are in Prime is fascinating.

Shoe · Sep 12, 2018

Nappael said:
So this will be an engine reimplementation like CorsixTH and need the original game assets to be practical?

Awesome. I'm looking forward to this

Yeah, exactly. None of the game assets are included, so you'd use your own rip.

Wamb0wneD · Sep 12, 2018

First time I saw T-pose pirates lol.

Deleted member 1849 · Sep 12, 2018

Cartridge Games said:
Essentially just a lot of effort for piracy when you could just dump your copy and play on dolphin

This isn't piracy. Not even close.

XSX · Sep 12, 2018

Cartridge Games said:
Essentially just a lot of effort for piracy when you could just dump your copy and play on dolphin

It's okay to admit you didn't understand what you just watched.

Pablo Mesa · Sep 12, 2018

Jawbreaker · Sep 12, 2018

This is really fascinating. Had no idea this guy's project existed.

LuigiV · Sep 12, 2018

Interesting feat of programming. Shame it's going to get C&D'd before it's complete.

Nikus · Sep 12, 2018

Dancrane212 said:
Reading exchanges with one of the devs and Jack Matthews on Twitter about why certain things are the way they are in Prime is fascinating.

I understand all of these words.

StereoVSN · Sep 12, 2018

This is an impressive project. Can't imagine the amount of work put into it. Technical skillset required got to be pretty comprehensive.

Wamb0wneD · Sep 12, 2018

XSX said:
It's okay to admit you didn't understand what you just watched.

I mean...even if the assets aren't from Metroid Prime, the sound effects and music sound exactly like...Metroid Prime lol.
And if you recreate something 1 to 1 it's still a massive grey zone regarding intellectual property.

Tagg · Sep 12, 2018

What exactly is the benefit of this compared to emulating in Dolphin?

PaulloDEC · Sep 12, 2018

It kinda sounds like this is something akin to a source port, would that be right?

If so, doesn't seem like something Nintendo would have any right to take down.

Deleted member 17388 · Sep 12, 2018

That's very impressive

Dancrane212 · Sep 12, 2018

Wamb0wneD said:
I mean...even if the assets aren't from Metroid Prime, the sound effects and music sound exactly like...Metroid Prime lol.
And if you recreate something 1 to 1 it's still a massive grey zone regarding intelectual property.

When they say assets they mean everything including audio. This project is just code: no music, textures, models or scripts are being redistributed from Nintendo's IP.

PaulloDEC said:
It kinda sounds like this is something akin to a source port, would that be right?

If so, doesn't seem like something Nintendo would have any right to take down.

Exactly!

Deleted member 1378 · Sep 12, 2018

Cartridge Games said:
Essentially just a lot of effort for piracy when you could just dump your copy and play on dolphin

"piracy" when the entire thing is made from scratch with completely original assets in every sense of the way?

it's a fan remake aiming to recreate the thing very, very accurately with entirely original assets

StereoVSN · Sep 12, 2018

Tagg said:
What exactly is the benefit of this compared to emulating in Dolphin?

This would be in a modern middleware engine which should hopefully allow for bugfixes, possibly mods, variations on controls, allow for new assets and new levels, etc.... Think source port.

Razor Mom · Sep 12, 2018

Holy shit

ultracal31 · Sep 12, 2018

Someone post up that woolie gif...

FuzzyAssassin · Sep 12, 2018

This is a really cool technical project, but I have to questions its legality. While he isn't distributing any assets, redistributing decompiled code or code that is copied or heavily based on decompiled code seems somewhat illegal. I'm not a lawyer, but I hope this guy is careful.

I'd love to get my hands on that source though.

Deleted member 1378 · Sep 12, 2018

FuzzyAssassin said:
This is a really cool technical project, but I have to questions its legality. While he isn't distributing any assets, redistributing decompiled code or code that is copied or heavily based on decompiled code seems somewhat illegal. I'm not a lawyer, but I hope this guy is careful.

I'd love to get my hands on that source though.

it's not illegal to create your own code based off of something you looked at to get a sense of how it works

Madao · Sep 12, 2018

the real reason this exists is to be able to edit the game to create new areas and content. i've been following things since the start of the Prime World Editor days and this approach facilitates a lot of the potential modding possible with the game due to not having to deal with the limited original engine. it'd be possible to also combine all 3 games if the assets from the other 2 games get implemented eventually.
having the ability to run it with way lower system settings is also a pretty good plus.

Tora · Sep 12, 2018

Cartridge Games said:
Essentially just a lot of effort for piracy when you could just dump your copy and play on dolphin

Cheer up

Wamb0wneD · Sep 12, 2018

Dancrane212 said:
When they say assets they mean everything including audio. This project is just code: no music, textures, models or scripts are being redistributed from Nintendo's IP.

That's cool but again, it's still a grey zone regarding intellectual property. When I make something and another company looks at how I made it, makes the exact same thing but maybe with different materials and calls it differently, people would still be inclined to call that plagiarism. It's the sole purpose why patents exist. You can't patent a game or sound effects though.
These fans did not come up with any music, enemy/ leveldesign or even an ounce of the presented gameplay. You're still playing Metroid Prime.

Enter the Dragon Punch said:
"piracy" when the entire thing is made from scratch with completely original assets in every sense of the way?

it's a fan remake aiming to recreate the thing very, very accurately with entirely original assets

It's still Metroid Prime. You still play Samus against space pirates in the same corridors with the same music and the same beam and morphball upgrades, with the same bosses. Yes, it's "original" assets. It's still Metroid Prime® lol.

Adnor · Sep 12, 2018

So this is like Open Transport Tycoon Deluxe?

Shoe · Sep 12, 2018

Wamb0wneD said:
It's still Metroid Prime. You still play Samus against space pirates in the same corridors with the same music and the same beam and morphball upgrades, with the same bosses. Yes, it's "original" assets. It's still Metroid Prime® lol.

Only if you use this engine to play your ripped copy of Metroid Prime. You provide the assets that you're accusing this program of providing. This is functionally identical to the legality of console emulators.

Log! · Sep 12, 2018

EDIT: Nevermind, I'm retracting this, it sounds just like Doom 64 EX or other similar projects, which aren't illegal AFAIK.

Deleted member 1378 · Sep 12, 2018

Wamb0wneD said:
That's cool but again, it's still a grey zone regarding intellectual property. When I make something and another company looks at how I made it, makes the exact same thing but maybe with different materials and calls it differently, people would still be inclined to call that plagiarism. It's the sole purpose why patents exist. You can't patent a game or sound effects though.
These fans did not come up with any music, enemy or leveldesign. You're still playing Metroid Prime.

It's still Metroid Prime. You still play Samus against space pirates in the same corridors with the same music and the same beam and morphball upgrades, with the same bosses. Yes, it's "original" assets. It's still Metroid Prime® lol.

it's not illegal to remake things as a fan with original assets. people have remade pokemon fire red in minecraft, but they didn't get C&D'd.

legality is not the question here. it is legal. it is whether or not nintendo feels threatened enough by fan projects to shut them down or not.

xch1n · Sep 12, 2018

Wamb0wneD said:
That's cool but again, it's still a grey zone regarding intellectual property. When I make something and another company looks at how I made it, makes the exact same thing but maybe with different materials and calls it differently, people would still be inclined to call that plagiarism. It's the sole purpose why patents exist. You can't patent a game or sound effects though.
These fans did not come up with any music, enemy/ leveldesign or even an ounce of the presented gameplay. You're still playing Metroid Prime.

It's still Metroid Prime. You still play Samus against space pirates in the same corridors with the same music and the same beam and morphball upgrades, with the same bosses. Yes, it's "original" assets. It's still Metroid Prime® lol.

They aren't distributing the actual copy written anything. They're distributing code that they wrote. You can't use it per se without assets that are copy protected, but how one gets those is beyond the scope of this project. Obj-dumping a binary isn't protected. you're talking about things that are irrelevant to the project.

lmx · Sep 12, 2018

Butwhy.gif

PaulloDEC · Sep 12, 2018

Wamb0wneD said:
That's cool but again, it's still a grey zone regarding intellectual property. When I make something and another company looks at how I made it, makes the exact same thing but maybe with different materials and calls it differently, people would still be inclined to call that plagiarism. It's the sole purpose why patents exist. You can't patent a game or sound effects though.
These fans did not come up with any music, enemy/ leveldesign or even an ounce of the presented gameplay. You're still playing Metroid Prime.

It's still Metroid Prime. You still play Samus against space pirates in the same corridors with the same music and the same beam and morphball upgrades, with the same bosses. Yes, it's "original" assets. It's still Metroid Prime® lol.

From what I understand, this isn't a remake. It's more akin to a source port, which is basically a software "adapter" that sits between your modern PC and your copy of the game in question. It facilitates playing the game, but like an emulator it doesn't use any of the game itself, so it's legally in the clear.

Correct me if I'm wrong, anyone.

lmx said:
Butwhy.gif

Because source ports are awesome?

RandomExpletive · Sep 12, 2018

Very impressive stuff

Dancrane212 · Sep 12, 2018

Wamb0wneD said:
That's cool but again, it's still a grey zone regarding intellectual property. When I make something and another company looks at how I made it, makes the exact same thing but maybe with different materials and calls it differently, people would still be inclined to call that plagiarism. It's the sole purpose why patents exist. You can't patent a game or sound effects though.
These fans did not come up with any music, enemy/ leveldesign or even an ounce of the presented gameplay. You're still playing Metroid Prime.

Let me put this in another way. This project is a like the homebrew DVD player for the Wii. It does not contain the content of my Lord of the Rings disc, it just plays it on another platform.

Nothing from Prime is in this project. It just can run the game if someone puts Metroid Prime content into it.

FuzzyAssassin · Sep 12, 2018

Enter the Dragon Punch said:
it's not illegal to create your own code based off of something you looked at to get a sense of how it works

I'm not a lawyer, so I can't say definitively, but there seems to be something legally dubious about distributing this code. In school we were taught to take half hour breaks between looking at another person's code and starting to work on our own, so we wouldn't inadvertently plagiarize. This would seem to fall under a similar umbrella.

I don't know the author should stop, and I think it's awesome that he's gotten the help and support of the original devs. However, I also think he shouldn't be surprised when Nintendo comes knocking on his door.

Wamb0wneD · Sep 12, 2018

Shoe said:
Only if you use this engine to play your ripped copy of Metroid Prime. You provide the assets that you're accusing this program of providing. This is functionally identical to the legality of console emulators.

Console emulators are also a grey zone, always have been.

Enter the Dragon Punch said:
it's not illegal to remake things as a fan with original assets. people have remade pokemon fire red in minecraft, but they didn't get C&D'd.

legality is not the question here. it is legal. it is whether or not nintendo feels threatened enough by fan projects to shut them down or not.

I never said it's illegal.
I would feel threatened if someone gives people something for free I would like to sell in the future. Most people don't give a fuck with what assets they play as long they can play.

xch1n said:
They aren't distributing the actual copy written anything. They're distributing code that they wrote. You can't use it per se without assets that are copy protected, but how one gets those is beyond the scope of this project. Obj-dumping a binary isn't protected. you're talking about things that are irrelevant to the project.

Of course. Provide all the tools for pirating shit but not distributing the piracy themselves, so legally it's not piracy. Nothing new here. And of course it's irrelevant. Always is.

Anustart · Sep 12, 2018

The dedication some have is astounding. I love it.

Deleted member 43872 · Sep 12, 2018

Wamb0wneD said:
Console emulators are also a grey zone, always have been.

Not in the US, ever since Sony v. Connectix.

Wamb0wneD · Sep 12, 2018

PaulloDEC said:
From what I understand, this isn't a remake. It's more akin to a source port, which is basically a software "adapter" that sits between your modern PC and your copy of the game in question. It facilitates playing the game, but like an emulator it doesn't use any of the game itself, so it's legally in the clear.

Correct me if I'm wrong, anyone.

Because source ports are awesome?

I never claimed it's not legally in the clear. It's still scummy lol. Kudos to their technical accomplishment though.

GibdoInferno said:
Not in the US, ever since Sony v. Connectix.

I'm speaking morally here, not legally.

XSX · Sep 12, 2018

I like how one of the devs from Prime tweeted about how cool this is, but the "experts" on here jumped on the "IT'S PIRACY"

Lighten up.

KarmaCow · Sep 12, 2018

Of course there is someone shitting up a cool thread with their hand wringing on Nintendo's behalf when even an original dev of the engine is supportive of this.

Metroid Prime PC Port Via Engine Rewrite (Update: 2½ Hours of Gameplay)

One Winged Slayer

User requested account closure

One Winged Slayer

User requested account closure

One Winged Slayer

Attempted to circumvent ban with an alt-account

Visited by Knack

User requested account closure

User requested account closure

One Winged Slayer

User requested account closure

One Winged Slayer

The Enlightened Wise Ones

One Winged Slayer

User requested account closure

Alt-Account

Visited by Knack

One Winged Slayer

9 Million Scovilles

Account closed at user request