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Deleted member 19844

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
3,500
United States
I don't quite understand the immediate "cut all ties" reaction on this one (as opposed to a more reserved wait and see approach). I say this mainly because there's one accuser thus far with a story they were shopping around to different publications, along with a firm, preemptive denial by Douglass of the truly repulsive charge (as opposed to the more wishy washy responses from people like Spacey), along with an apology re: his use of language.
 
OP
OP
hansel

hansel

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
454
There are a myriad of reasons she might have made this up. Most of them tend to be the kind of reactionary knee-jerk reasons that MRA punks trot out immediately in situations like this: She wants money, she's still mad 30+ years later, she hates men, she's being opportunistic because of #MeToo, she's blaming him for her own faults, she's not remembering correctly etc etc.

I'm not saying any of those are true, or false, because we can't possibly know. That's why there's a legal process that accusations like this are intended to be put through, to verify or refute the claims being made. The point others are making in this thread is that we cannot continue this pattern of immediately calling for someone's head just because someone accused them of something.

So we can either just not believe her (and I'm assuming any other single woman that comes out in regards to some sexual abuse that happened years ago) until evidence come forward because there's a small chance they might be lying, or believe women when they are strong enough to come forward against these powerful men.

Hmmm, I'm going to choose the latter.

What evidence do you all expect?
 

Rangerx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,498
Dangleberry
I'm a dude on the internet, not on the jury of the case. I'm allowed to say, and think, what I want.

The naiveté of thinking this is going to spur an actual investigation, lmao.
I'm not saying you aren't allowed to and I was talking about a police investigation, presumably she has filed a report. I'm not American so I don't know if the statute of limitations has passed.

My point is that any judgement should be made on at least some level of evidence. Otherwise it is just two conflicting accounts. People lie, men and women.
 

SieteBlanco

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,878
Not adressing you two directly, just the links. But yeesh, it reads like that kid who got in trouble at school, who know they did something shitty but told on YOU before you could tell on them. It doesn't matter if he got his story out first, it doesn't make him innocent of what he did.

Having a pre-marital affair, or sexual/explicit talk not addressed to her isn't anything really. It's his business if he wants to cheat and if he wants to talk like that. Masturbating in front of her and remarking about body, especially as a married man and in a working relationship is incredibly shitty.

I believe her.

This is, quite simply, intellectual disingenuity. Can we not resort to such childish strawman argument when dealing with such serious accusations?
 

John Rabbit

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,104
So we can either just not believe her (and I'm assuming any other single woman that comes out in regards to some sexual abuse that happened years ago) until evidence come forward because there's a small chance they might be lying, or believe women when they are strong enough to come forward against these powerful men.

Hmmm, I'm going to choose the latter.

What evidence do you all expect?
You asked for reasons why she might have made this up, I provided them to you and then added context for why we (collectively as a society) might want to reel in the reactions just a little bit.
 

Inferno

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,554
Tampa, FL
I'm not saying you aren't allowed to and I was talking about a police investigation, presumably she has filed a report. I'm not American so I don't know if the statute of limitations has passed.

My point is that any judgement should be made on at least some level of evidence. Otherwise it is just two conflicting accounts. People lie, men and women.

A police investigation will not be conducted.
 

TheIlliterati

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
4,782
and I have a right to believe her. False rape-accusations are extremely rare. The cultural burden placed on women that come forward, which this thread demonstrates, is largely what keeps more women from coming forward. There's little reason to come forward with an accusation that isn't true.
Putting aside this accusation for the moment, I think things have changed here. Two of your points will need to be looked at by researchers in the near future. One, that false accusation are rare. I'm sure they have been, but after another few years of twitter accusations and anonymous gossip, I'm sure that number will be skewed. Second, the reason to come forward with a false accusation is to instantly ruin a person's reputation with no evidence, which was impossible before social media allowed an accusation to spread instantly.

Again, I'm not saying this one is false. I'm just saying the old metrics of false accusations possible rarity and lack of motive seem to be quickly becoming outdated.
 
OP
OP
hansel

hansel

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
454
You asked for reasons why she might have made this up, I provided them to you and then added context for why we (collectively as a society) might want to reel in the reactions just a little bit.

Your reasons are unjustifiable. Assuming a woman might be lying brings us back to where we were before the whole #metoo movement.
 

Deleted member 14377

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
13,520
She was shopping this around to different outlets for one.

Can't you also equate that to someone who wants to out a creep, but wants to find the proper publication to do so? I mean, there are a few that have shitty reputations that would just drag the validity of her story down because of how shitty they are.
 

Krauser Kat

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,701
the terrible person defense force is fucking strong today.

1. she isnt making criminal charges.
2. this isnt going to get tried in court.
3. this is to let other women know to not work with him and or come forward with their stories
4. there is no reason to lie about this. shes not going to get money from this. This probably hurts her career in show business.
5. Its the BBC putting their reputation on the line for reporting it.

Hopefully this gives cover for everyone else he has affected to come forward.
The worst that can happen is i believe her, and nothing happens, and powerful man keeps being powerful.
 

Zoe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,261
Can't you also equate that to someone who wants to out a creep, but wants to find the proper publication to do so? I mean, there are a few that have shitty reputations that would just drag the validity of her story down because of how shitty they are.
No, she was going to all the big ones.
 

Inferno

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,554
Tampa, FL
If I was walking around my office talking about how I fucked my fiancé's asshole last night, do you know fucking fast I'd be out the door?

Some of you guys don't live on planet earth.
 

Deleted member 19844

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
3,500
United States
Not adressing you two directly, just the links. But yeesh, it reads like that kid who got in trouble at school, who know they did something shitty but told on YOU before you could tell on them. It doesn't matter if he got his story out first, it doesn't make him innocent of what he did.

Having a pre-marital affair, or sexual/explicit talk not addressed to her isn't anything really. It's his business if he wants to cheat and if he wants to talk like that. Masturbating in front of her and remarking about body, especially as a married man and in a working relationship is incredibly shitty.

I believe her.
To me it just as easily reads like someone who is angry about being unjustly accused.

I also have to consider the two worst charges (comments on her body and masturbation in front of her) as being of different levels of shiftiness. If he masturbated in front of her, then yes, get him out of there — disgusting. But i can't muster up the same degree of disgust re: comments on her looks. That charge in and of itself, although shitty, wouldn't be enough for me to want demand his ouster from acting.
 
Oct 28, 2017
316
This is getting beyond stupid.

NOT GUILTY UNTIL PROVEN INNOCENT.

And this shit being 10 , 20, 30 years later is even more dumb.
 

Just_a_Mouse

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,030
It's gross that he basically got away with this for 30 years, what does it matter to him now? He can retire with all his riches earned since then intact. Then again, given the culture of the time, I'm sure any attempt by the victim to come forward when it happened would have been quickly smothered. I hope at least she can feel some small measure of justice, now that this is out there after all these years.
 

FeistyBoots

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,506
Southern California
If he's not talking to her and she just happens to be there, it's ridiculous.

To give you further clarification as to how your view on this is misinformed:

https://www.eeoc.gov/laws/types/harassment.cfm

"Offensive conduct may include, but is not limited to, offensive jokes, slurs, epithets or name calling, physical assaults or threats, intimidation, ridicule or mockery, insults or put-downs, offensive objects or pictures, and interference with work performance. Harassment can occur in a variety of circumstances, including, but not limited to, the following:

  • The harasser can be the victim's supervisor, a supervisor in another area, an agent of the employer, a co-worker, or a non-employee.
  • The victim does not have to be the person harassed, but can be anyone affected by the offensive conduct."
Now, to be fair, it must be a pattern that creates a hostile work environment for those affected for the behavior to be illegal. I can't speak to that aspect in this case at this time.
 

Deleted member 19844

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
3,500
United States
Okay? What's your point? You make it seem like she was selling her story to the highest bidder. Did she?
You said that maybe she was trying to find the right one in order to avoid a publication with a shitty reputation. His response was to clarify that no, your scenario is not what happened because she was just going to the big ones.
 

RedMercury

Blue Venus
Member
Dec 24, 2017
17,655
This is getting beyond stupid.

NOT GUILTY UNTIL PROVEN INNOCENT.

And this shit being 10 , 20, 30 years later is even more dumb.
Can you expand on that a bit? Do you think it's dumb that in the midst of the MeToo movement women re coming forward with this sort of thing? Should they have done it on a timeframe you deem acceptable?

I'm saying that I don't even know what "sexual language" is. "He"? "She"?
Bruh
 

adamsappel

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,503
and I have a right to believe her. False rape-accusations are extremely rare. The cultural burden placed on women that come forward, which this thread demonstrates, is largely what keeps more women from coming forward. There's little reason to come forward with an accusation that isn't true.
She's not accusing him of rape.

I wonder what some of these guys think is going to happen when they pull their wiener out in front of chicks like that. Do they think she's going to be delighted and start going to town or do they just get off on the reaction regardless of where it leads?
Okay, with the foresight that I may be wandering into "No? Just me?" territory, has nobody else ever fantasized about being caught masturbating and having it lead to something? Or catching someone else in the act? A rational person understands actually doing this won't play out as they imagine. I wouldn't think this is an uncommon fantasy, nor would it surprise me that powerful people in Hollywood, who are used to having people wantonly throw themselves at them, would try and make their fantasy a reality. And, maybe it has worked for them before. We're only hearing from the people who are rightfully disgusted by it.
 

John Rabbit

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,104
Your reasons are unjustifiable. Assuming a woman might be lying brings us back to where we were before the whole #metoo movement.
You're extrapolating my point. I gave you possible reasons she might have made this up, which is what you asked for. I didn't say any of them were reasons to immediately dismiss her claims, just potential reasons a person might make up a lie about another person.
 

Deleted member 1726

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,661
I wonder what some of these guys think is going to happen when they pull their wiener out in front of chicks like that. Do they think she's going to be delighted and start going to town or do they just get off on the reaction regardless of where it leads?

Pretty much yes, that's exactly what they expected to happen.
 

Deleted member 14377

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
13,520
You said that maybe she was trying to find the right one in order to avoid a publication with a shitty reputation. His response was to clarify that no, your scenario is not what happened because she was just going to the big ones.

Of course she would. Why wouldn't she? A bigger publication with a good reputation with a wider reach so her story doesn't get buried or brushed away. It's done on this site and rightfully so "daily mirror, take this with a grain of salt". And the same if she were to go through a tabloid magazine.

Dammed if you do dammed if you don't it seems. Guess she's just trying to make a quick buck one way or the other. And if she did it on her personal Twitter, you get people saying how Twitter isn't the place to do it. How should she do this then? Everything is just going to be used against her. It already does in the cases of other women who come forward with this.
 

Soupman Prime

The Fallen
Nov 8, 2017
8,569
Boston, MA
Besides Hollywood supposedly being full of scumbags the one new thing I've learned is that it seems like people love masturbating in front of women.
 

Flo_Evans

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,250
Is there any more details to the masturbated story? It sort of sounds like he was rubbing one out at home and she walked in on him.
 

Deleted member 19844

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
3,500
United States
I wasn't saying that this was rape, I was using something similar that does have readily available statistics to make a point.
I think where i struggle with this is that it feels like the two things are quite dissimilar. But to be clear, i would agree even without data that the likelihood of false accusations is low in both situations - i just didn't think you could use the data from one to support the other.
 

SieteBlanco

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,878
And if no other woman wants to deal with the trauma of putting that out there? Oh well, guess it sucks for this woman then? What if she was the only victim? It would still be wrong.
And if he only did this to one person in a one on one scenario, how should she prove it?

He is someone that, if he did what she claimed he did, had no repercussions for over 30 years. If he harassed her, it's unlikely that she was the only victim. I personally don't see any reason to make any sort of judgement with what is currently known.
 

Carfo

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,857
It's gross that he basically got away with this for 30 years, what does it matter to him now? He can retire with all his riches earned since then intact. Then again, given the culture of the time, I'm sure any attempt by the victim to come forward when it happened would have been quickly smothered. I hope at least she can feel some small measure of justice, now that this is out there after all these years.

if the story is false as he claims, this is a serious hit to his reputation and his legacy. he cares.
 

ronaldthump

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,439
Some of the stuff she said about language I think MD addressed quite well. She never said it was directed at her. As for her accusations about blacklisitng etc, he also made it quite clear he didn't. As for the masturbation, who knows. That said, I beleve his account more than I do hers.
 

Deleted member 14377

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
13,520
Comparing posters to children because they brought up his defense, which isn't based on "being first" but rather on putting his reputation on the line. Not like you wouldn know since it's likely you didn't bother to click either link, though.

Did you not read the very first sentence in that post? I'm not talking to or about the posters. Get over yourself.