It's extremely depressing how little justice there is in the world.
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Michael Jackson died 10 years ago today (See Staff Post)
- Thread starter ThisThingIsUseful
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It's extremely depressing how little justice there is in the world.
This conversation literally started with me replying to someone who brought up the topic of "but the rules." You then replied to my reply.
You obviously disagree. I don't want to argue about it, it will derail the thread too much. Sorry.
Seriously. I remember exactly where I was when I first heard the news and it really doesn't feel like it was so long ago.
he was aquitted. And with the recent accusers they would've stood zero chance to win a legal battle.
Whatever people here say. In the court of law it was and would never be beyond a reasonable doubt given the history of his accusers
It's awful takes like this that prevents victims from reporting abuse.
It's a shame he liked touching kids, because otherwise he'd be the GOAT. His stuff will forever be tainted, even back when he was still dark skinned and had puffy hair
It's definitely one of those deaths where everyone remembers where they were at the time. I remember following that crazy thread on GAF and the TMZ story while not doing my actual work at the call center I was at.
Social media and phone notifications weren't what they were now so I was really the only person aware of it. When it broke that he died, I remember being the on who turned around and said something like, "Oh my god, Michael Jackson died," and the entire call center basically shut down for a while as everyone was Googling and texting.
Such a surreal moment.
Assuming the allegations against Michael Jackson are true, at least on the flip side of his evil coin he actually contributed something positive to the world. His musical work will be remembered for centuries, assuming we survive past global warming that long. Let it be known I am not justifying any terrible actions he took toward children - but some evil in history comes with some amazing good. Not all evil does, in my experience.
Why should a man that manipulated and sexually abused children rest 'in peace', especially one that didn't face any criminal punishment? These kids grew up to be fucked up while he got to go on living in his protected fantasy empire until his death.
I don't know if there's a Hell, but I hope he's in some kind of afterlife finally paying that tab he racked up in life.
I don't know if there's a Hell, but I hope he's in some kind of afterlife finally paying that tab he racked up in life.
He's probably lucky in a way that he died before the metoo movement.
I'm able to separate the art from the artist so I still listen to his music though.
I'm able to separate the art from the artist so I still listen to his music though.
It's not a take. Since the documentary premiered, I watched it (all 5 hours) and researched more about everything. I think at some point you have to have due diligence and verify what can be verified. From what I know, I don't find them convincing, nor any of the accusations (this includes from Jordan Chandler to Gavin arvizio)
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The halftime show that made halftime shows way bigger deals. It's weird reading through the history of them and seeing marching bands for a long time (as much as I dig them in college football and never want them to leave).
Damn, time really does fly. That is truly the thread that needs to be made.
You'd have to be turning a blind eye or ignorant to the extent of what child abuse can be at this point, honestly. The only point of contention is whether he raped them.
I have to imagine some people think that admitting as much means they have to give up his music, which isn't true. Accepting what he may have done and listening to his music aren't mutually exclusive - you can do both. I think some people can't reconcile that.
Also there are people who staunchly believe none of the accusations are true, so there's that as well.
I repeat what I just said - it's awful takes like this that keep victims suffering in silence.
Trauma isnt a linear experience. Neither is acceptance of it and certainly not the ability to vocalize it. I would think if you truly watched the documentary you'd see that.
He made some of my all time favorite music, I'll never stop listening to his CDs.
But as a person I'm sure as hell not gonna put him on a pedestal or anything.
But as a person I'm sure as hell not gonna put him on a pedestal or anything.
You don't typically have investigative journalists trying to send messages to kids in your care asking them if they've been kidnapped. He took boys on tour with him when they weren't going to his shows, had them holed up in his hotel room with sheets over the windows and the door locked. It's only a splash in the pond of insidious shit around this man. You don't buy houses and diamond bracelets for the parents of kids that let you sleep in bed with them, spend hours on the phone with them every day and send them direct faxes calling them "little one" and fawning over them.
You don't take children that have admired you as the epitome of their dreams since they were old enough to dance, abuse them repeatedly while promising them world stardom and fame, all before dropping them like a stone when they grow up.
You don't take children that have admired you as the epitome of their dreams since they were old enough to dance, abuse them repeatedly while promising them world stardom and fame, all before dropping them like a stone when they grow up.
It was very surreal when it happened. My class pretty much stopped and we were all just scrolling around the internet at the breaking news.
Why use quotes in "proven" ? Dude slept with children, was sued multiple times for sexual assault, and then one of his defenders refused to show up to defend him at trial, the one who did show up and was instrumental in getting him acquitted recanted in this documentary, alongside the other defender.
Then they showed up in a documentary and admitted they were raped. With excruciating detail and tons of damning evidence. If I were on a jury, I would convict him ten-fold. He has met way, way, WAY more than the threshold for reasonable doubt.
There is as much doubt surrounding his guilt as there is surrounding my humanity: None. AIs just can't write like I do. It's a fact.
I don't believe so. I had a complete change of heart. The documentary put me over, but I can't just accept the words of people on faith and not verify what I can. I found a bunch of issues with their stories that swayed me and the issue of the who criminal prosecution being led and propogated by a racist kind of re-contextualizes all of the claims.
I know victims and I don't need you to tell me how to engage with them. Watching the documentary isn't enough for me. I'm sorry if you don't understand or agree with that. I try to examine things on a case by case basis. I wrote in the original thread that I believe that Dr. Ford (the woman who accused Brett kavanaugh of assaulting her) is telling the truth. I believe R. Kelly's victims. I just don't find James' and Wade's stories compelling once you dig through them.
Some might not be ok with that and I get it, but i've had family be accused of false narratives with people lying boldly to people of authority and so I always try to verify what I can when possible. I will listen to victims tell their story, but I think it's bad to not look at whatever evidence is there.
You can not believe as much as you like, there's zero doubt he abused children. He admitted to sleeping in bed with small boys, there's more than enough evidence of his communications with them and his time spent with the family. It's abusive.
There is one book that's contentious, boys will be boys and another book that I can't remember. Boys will be boys is actually in the national archives and was gifted to him. The argument however is that this is the kind of things pedophiles will want to own because they can get away with it. I find this weak however because if only having 1 or 2 books that aren't illegal to own in a vast library of books consisting of a bunch of content, while Neverland was raided while he was out of the country is all there is, and wasn't sufficient enough evidence to convict him, than I don't think the strength of that accusation holds
I was playing the Bionic Commando multiplayer demo on 360 at the time. I found out because someone in the game shouted "Yo Michael Jackson just died" and everyone just stopped talking and went to Google or news sites.
Weird thing to hear while playing a multiplayer game.
Weird thing to hear while playing a multiplayer game.
This is another thing I looked into. For the sleepovers, there would be dozens of kids sleeping in his bed. His niece, nephews and kids who were in Neverland. According to his family and body guard, he would sleep on the floor. You can also hear him say that in the Bashir documentary. When Gavin kept asking MJ to sleep in his bed, he insisted several times he slept on the floor.
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2009/jun/26/michael-jackson-child-star
Is this really the guy you guys want to go down defending?
Agree with the posts stating he was an extraordinary musician but a truly disgusting excuse for a human being.
mod post - guidelines for thread
Official Staff Communication
Michael Jackson threads have been particularly difficult to adjudicate given the long and tortured history of the cases, the outcome of previous trials, and the fact that the subject is deceased. Please observe these rules of engagement:
If you can't observe these rules or can't accept them, do not participate. Metacommentary derails will be banned.
- You are free to presume MJ's guilt and label him accordingly.
- You can reference inconsistencies in testimony and past acquittals.
- You cannot label the accusers as liars or frauds or similar.
If you can't observe these rules or can't accept them, do not participate. Metacommentary derails will be banned.
He frequently slept in bed with little boys on their own. This is known. That you're taking so much energy to dismiss the window dressing around the obvious is fucking trash. You did it in the documentary thread, you're doing it here. You're incredibly transparent.
One of those few I will always remember exactly where I was when I heard the news moments. The greatest entertainer of our lifetime. The artist is untouchable, the man horrific. Such a sad tale all around.
An absolute legend. What an amazing man from both an entertainment and philanthropic perspective. He really impacted the world.
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