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jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,184
Well it's not like we got to the point where "war criminal" is part of the job description for POTUS by accident. It's because we Americans are completely fucked up and warped by a century of propaganda and centuries of racism. It's not just the whims of evil billionaires. Presidents lose popularity in America for not killing people when they're expected to. This thread is to a certain extent a reflection of the society that produces these outcomes.
This is wonderfully put.
well the first half of the post wasn't talking to you.

also talking about how views on ERA being fringe isn't starting drama, it's stating objective fact that views similar to "Obama is a war criminal" is fringe and not really spoken of anywhere in media or even outside of media
Sure if the basis for this assertion is only coming from an American perspective. Most other places aren't going to white wash American president's war crimes.
 

Anti

Banned
Nov 22, 2017
2,972
Australia
Well this thread surely showed me how much regard you guys have for our brown lives.
Only brown lives? They don't give a shit about any POC, it's all a facade to show themselves like they really care but they don't give a shit. Hell some of them are even saying that a fucking war criminal said sorry so we all should forgive him because if not then we are inmature.

Like wtf is with these people, and then when something happens in America we need to give a shit, fuck them.
 

Chaos Legion

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 30, 2017
16,905
Wanting war criminals and murderers to answer for their crimes is vindictive and a sign of inane bloodlust. I guess you are against any kind of justice whatsoever?
He's going to answer for his crimes in a People Magazine interview hosted by his daughter? If Michelle's answer in this interview had the weight of leading to GWB being held accountable, tried for his crimes and being brought to justice, I will take back every post in this thread. If not, then it's not 'justice' you are in search of from Michelle, it's you want her to be petty.
 
Oct 27, 2017
11,505
Bandung Indonesia
A lot of ERA ain't just shit. I think it's time for me to start adding to my ignore list for the first time on any site ever.

Between this thread and the Boyega thread, I'm seeing all I need to see of "progressive" Era. A lot of progressive racism is what I'm seeing. Nuance is harder than black and white, and reality is harder than these people's cartoon-like head canon.

We see you.

By we do you mean groups of people who don't give a shit about millions of brown people getting killed and suffering?

So you're one of them, huh?

Maybe you should grow a conscience and imagine how millions of people who suffered and still suffering because of Iraq war would feel if they hear the person responsible for it are being called loving and compassionate. Grow a fucking conscience please.
 
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PMS341

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt-account
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
6,634
He's going to answer for his crimes in a People Magazine interview hosted by his daughter? If Michelle's answer in this interview had the weight of leading to GWB being held accountable, tried for his crimes and being brought to justice, I will take back every post in this thread. If not, then it's not 'justice' you are in search of from Michelle, it's you want her to be petty.

Is it really considered petty of someone to admit in a public interview that they don't agree with a war criminal who destabilized the Middle East for generations to come?

Considering the traction this article has gotten, if she had said something even remotely negative about Bush and his administration, then the "weight" of her words might bear down on those who deserve it as opposed to sugar-coating cruelty. She has influence and is a known public figure. Her words do have meaning, and right now, her words are forgiving of someone who deserves zero forgiveness.
 

Regulus Tera

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,458
Bush has apologized for Iraq/Afghanistan. I'm not holding a grudge over it. If you can't forgive him then that's on you. There's things that have been done to my people that I won't forgive either so I understand, you'd never hear me say stop being mad or "get over it" like they do with slavery.

But what people won't tolerate is the angry mob coming for them when we happen to be past a grudge that you are still holding on to. If you're mad at Bush go harass him. You come for me then I firing back. Simple as that.
Bush should be tried at the Hague. Apologising means jack shit when he will die peacefully in his sleep.
 

Chaos Legion

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 30, 2017
16,905
Is it really considered petty of someone to admit in a public interview that they don't agree with a war criminal who destabilized the Middle East for generations to come?

Considering the traction this article has gotten, if she had said something even remotely negative about Bush and his administration, then the "weight" of her words might bear down on those who deserve it as opposed to sugar-coating cruelty. She has influence and is a known public figure. Her words do have meaning, and right now, her words are forgiving of someone who deserves zero forgiveness.
She said she doesn't agree with him.
 

Tetra-Grammaton-Cleric

user requested ban
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
8,958
He's going to answer for his crimes in a People Magazine interview hosted by his daughter? If Michelle's answer in this interview had the weight of leading to GWB being held accountable, tried for his crimes and being brought to justice, I will take back every post in this thread. If not, then it's not 'justice' you are in search of from Michelle, it's you want her to be petty.

Calling out Bush for what he and his administration did isn't petty, it's arguably a moral imperative.

Go look up the figures for the Iraq War. Trillions spent, thousands dead, countless more lives ruined in the wake, and all predicated on a lie sold to the American people in regards to WoMD.

To be clear I'm not calling Michelle some horrific human because of this but she missed a golden opportunity to shine a light on one of our greatest national atrocities and instead opted to keep it fluffy.
 

saenima

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,892
because I don't view the Drone Program as something that is war criminal in nature.

This shit right here. This is what's wrong. America is literally killing people in dozens of countries for nothing more than money and power. Using drones. But it's ok because it's just brown people you don't know or care about.

But calling out Michelle Obama is the real racism amirite?
 

saenima

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,892
This is probably an even more unpopular opinion than defending Michelle Obama but I also think that when we sweep everybody into the garbage bin, when you group up Obama with George W. Bush, or even Barack Obama's vice president Joe Biden with Dick Cheney (and I'm not Biden supporter), or any two people that are different but still have negatives, and you remove any nuance and say that they're all unequivocally garbage, then someone fills the vaccuum that's left outside the garbage bin, and for now, it's Donald Trump.

You should probably stop taking your talking points ftom Dave Rubin.
 

Anti

Banned
Nov 22, 2017
2,972
Australia
if she did that she might have to acknowledge her husband's own contributions to the subject matter
We can't talk bad about the Obama's to progressive Americans, according to them they are perfect and the only evil come from the republicans. Even tho democratsand republicans are pretty much the same evil if you are from a different country.
 

PMS341

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt-account
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
6,634
She said she doesn't agree with him.

"Our values are the same," she said of herself and President Bush. "We disagree on policy, but we don't disagree on humanity, we don't disagree about love and compassion. I think that's true for all of us — it's just that we get lost in our fear of what's different."

You're right, she says "we don't disagree" on humanity, love, and compassion - something Bush showed zero of towards literally anyone who suffered due to his actions. Hundreds of thousands of people are dead. The Middle East unstable. The war was built on falsehoods, and both Republicans and Democrats knew it. Saying "we disagree on policy" means jack shit and handwaves everything, given that disagreeing on this particular policy should come from basic morality and ethics, not some systematic political decision.

She not only agrees with Bush, she is normalizing his actions.

if she did that she might have to acknowledge her husband's own contributions to the subject matter

Yupppp. Which is why it will never happen.
 

Tetra-Grammaton-Cleric

user requested ban
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
8,958
I was mad after finding out that the Iraq war was based on lies. That was over 10 years ago and I've moved on. I'll say again that I have no qualms about people still be mad at Bush. But when the mob starts to come for people just because they aren't as mad or because a person can see nuance in the person you hate then that's when I push back.

Michelle's not a victim here. She claimed a demonstrable war criminal shares her value system. It was an incredibly bad moment for her.

As for you moving on, kudos. That said, there are many, many people on both sides of this conflict who lost mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, children, and grandchildren to this war.

For those people, they don't have the luxury of moving on. They just have to get on with it in a world that is largely indifferent to their respective tragedies.
 

saenima

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,892
Hey i have a novel idea for American Foreign Policy.

How about instead of using drones you don't just fuck off?
 

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,316
Bush has apologized for Iraq/Afghanistan. I'm not holding a grudge over it. If you can't forgive him then that's on you. There's things that have been done to my people that I won't forgive either so I understand, you'd never hear me say stop being mad or "get over it" like they do with slavery.

But what people won't tolerate is the angry mob coming for them when we happen to be past a grudge that you are still holding on to. If you're mad at Bush go harass him. You come for me then I firing back. Simple as that.

Oops sorry!

As fucking if.
 

Regulus Tera

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,458
The Michelle Obama controversy really highlights how much politics is just a game of cult of personality. People are willing to defend and excuse Obama due to his charisma and historical importance as the first black president without being actually critical of his actions. This extends to the first black First Lady due to association.
 

Stone Cold

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,466
The Michelle Obama controversy really highlights how much politics is just a game of cult of personality. People are willing to defend and excuse Obama due to his charisma and historical importance as the first black president without being actually critical of his actions. This extends to the first black First Lady due to association.
I don't agree with his continuation of the foreign policies Bush laid out in the middle east, nor was I a fan of his unwillingness to throw Republicans the middle finger when Dems had majority. I do appreciate the fact that he at least attempted to follow through on his promise to reinvent the wheel with our healthcare industry and could hold a coherent conversation with foreign leaders and look the part of American President.
 

Slayven

Never read a comic in his life
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
93,025
Official Staff Communication
This is going to require a lengthier review process. The issues brought up in this thread - the intersection of class, American foreign policy, Islamophobia, and racial issues - are complex, and dealing with them properly will take time, consideration, and input from the affected communities. We understand how sensitive these topics are, and we want to make absolutely sure we get it right.
 
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