Michelle Obama on her bond with George W. Bush: "Our values are the same"

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Feb 8, 2019
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Would it be better if I made analogies to the Alternative Medicine types? Start with some real information, extrapolate on it, fill in the blanks with what you want, make a leap to conclusions that aren't supported, look for that echo chamber of the like-minded and then try to bully anyone who doesn't agree. Scream at them to prove you wrong. Use strong language to do so. Unfortunately there isn't any way of rationally discussing as minds are made up and the emotional centers of the brain take over any sort of logical discussion. Its like Trump supporters in reverse.
 

ScribbleD

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,401
Would it be better if I made analogies to the Alternative Medicine types? Start with some real information, extrapolate on it, fill in the blanks with what you want, make a leap to conclusions that aren't supported, look for that echo chamber of the like-minded and then try to bully anyone who doesn't agree. Scream at them to prove you wrong. Use strong language to do so. Unfortunately there isn't any way of rationally discussing as minds are made up and the emotional centers of the brain take over any sort of logical discussion. Its like Trump supporters in reverse.
So to be clear you came in here to repeatedly express disdain for cancel culture even though nobody else was talking about cancelling anyone.

When called on it, you came up with this meandering paragraph where you frame opposition to your argument as being similar to alternative medicine or Trump supporters.

Cool.
 

Untzillatx

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Oct 27, 2017
1,186
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Every sitting US president that will come and has had the office in modern time will defacto become a war criminal. Bernie elected, yes he too, it isn't like the war machine, where US excels at, would just stop. Here is where nuance comes into play, where I would believe Bernie to make a much better job then any before in minimizing this shit.
So because all of them are war criminals... then none of them are?

Bernie may or may not do things to minimise it, but the point being discussed is that Obama didn't, in fact he did the opposite.
 

Deleted member 61538

Alt account
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Nov 19, 2019
113
Ah yes ..

The Cancellation of the First Black First Lady

If I’ve ever seen an OP that’s built it’s narrative around getting people rallied up .. its this.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,199
I'd imagine being the former FLOTUS, wealthy, and rolling in circles that include the Bushes has warped her brain a bit where she sees Bush through a positive lens. If she can put the Iraq War in this 'policy' bucket then she can focus on his family values and how he acts around people nowadays.

It is extremely disappointing, but I get how it's gotten to this point for her.

Oh look, another 10+ minute interview with an influential woman on a variety of topics including fighting for the education of girls in cultures where they would otherwise be marginalized, a book, her relationship with her family and the value of voting in an election, and y'all take a 10 second soundbite and immediately start with the "she's trash fuck her," talk.

This is the second time this has happened in 30 days.

The op is being a manipulative shitposter and y'all falling for it like chumps. Nice progressive forum we got going here.
Wait, why can't we call HRC trash?

And why does any of this run contrary to progressivism? Why can't people express how problematic it is that Michelle is portraying Bush in this way?
 

fanboi

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,295
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So because all of them are war criminals... then none of them are?

Bernie may or may not do things to minimise it, but the point being discussed is that Obama didn't, in fact he did the opposite.
No? Nuance is actually important and not just the label when you comapre Bush vs Obama, both war criminals, but the impact on a global scale is in massive favor for one of them.
 

Agnostic

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Mar 4, 2019
184
Pretty sure I have some shared values with horrible people but I’m not going to be having dinner with them and cherish their friendship.
 

jviggy43

Member
Oct 28, 2017
17,159
Ah yes ..

The Cancellation of the First Black First Lady

If I’ve ever seen an OP that’s built it’s narrative around getting people rallied up .. its this.
Pretty gross to try and distort criticism of this as anyone canceling someone because they are the first black first lady, when she is talking about wanting the same thing as a man who murdered tens of thousands of innocent brown people overseas (as did her husband).
 

Untzillatx

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Oct 27, 2017
1,186
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No? Nuance is actually important and not just the label when you comapre Bush vs Obama, both war criminals, but the impact on a global scale is in massive favor for one of them.
One (Bush) is several orders of magnitude worse than the other (Obama), and had a much worse impact on the world. Correct. That doesn't minimise Obama's crimes though.

He was the least bad of the two. Still hundreds of innocent lives were lost for what his administration brushed off as "collateral".
 

Mekanos

Member
Oct 17, 2018
16,562
Ah yes ..

The Cancellation of the First Black First Lady

If I’ve ever seen an OP that’s built it’s narrative around getting people rallied up .. its this.
We can’t criticize public figures if they’re black women?

She’s rehabilitating a war criminal, but her husband is also one so whatever.
 

fanboi

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,295
Sweden
One (Bush) is several orders of magnitude worse than the other (Obama), and had a much worse impact on the world. Correct. That doesn't minimise Obama's crimes though.

He was the least bad of the two. Still hundreds of innocent lives were lost for what his administration brushed off as "collateral".
Then we agree.
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,236
User banned (duration pending): inflammatory generalisation of community, accumulated infractions
Oh look, another 10+ minute interview with an influential woman on a variety of topics including fighting for the education of girls in cultures where they would otherwise be marginalized, a book, her relationship with her family and the value of voting in an election, and y'all take a 10 second soundbite and immediately start with the "she's trash fuck her," talk.

This is the second time this has happened in 30 days.

The op is being a manipulative shitposter and y'all falling for it like chumps.
Sadly, not surprising.

Nice progressive forum we got going here.
You seen how quickly a lot of white progressives here exert their privilege and espouse bigotry in threads dealing with race and gender identity?

A lot of people here only pretend to be progressive and act that way when it suits them.
 

Deleted member 61538

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Nov 19, 2019
113
Pretty gross to try and distort criticism of this as anyone canceling someone because they are the first black first lady, when she is talking about wanting the same thing as a man who murdered tens of thousands of innocent brown people overseas (as did her husband).
Ah yes I forgot we still live in a time where the actions of her Husband must fall down to her to deal with the blowback.
 

ScribbleD

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,401
Ah yes ..

The Cancellation of the First Black First Lady

If I’ve ever seen an OP that’s built it’s narrative around getting people rallied up .. its this.
You are the third person to mention cancellation/cancel culture. The other two also were moaning about it.

So for the record we have 0 people calling for anyone to be "cancelled," but multiple people all trying to derail with this.
 

offtopic

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Nov 21, 2017
647
User banned (1 week): trolling and antagonizing other users over multiple posts
So to be clear you came in here to repeatedly express disdain for cancel culture even though nobody else was talking about cancelling anyone.

When called on it, you came up with this meandering paragraph where you frame opposition to your argument as being similar to alternative medicine or Trump supporters.

Cool.
Summarizing my analogies in a weak but dismissive way...definitely consider me cancelled. Cool! :p
 

M.Bluth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,953
Ah yes I forgot we still live in a time where the actions of her Husband must fall down to her to deal with the blowback.
Motherfucker, she gets flack because she chose to rehabilitate the image of one of the worst war criminals alive today.
Don't try to deflect with this weak ass bullshit.
 

jviggy43

Member
Oct 28, 2017
17,159
Ah yes I forgot we still live in a time where the actions of her Husband must fall down to her to deal with the blowback.
What thread do you think youre in? Surely not the one where SHE comes out and says she wants the same thing as Bush here, thus the blowback. Youre either being incredibly disingenuous about this conversation or you didn't bother seeing the reason why shes being criticized.
 
Feb 8, 2019
970
Sadly, not surprising.



You seen how quickly a lot of white progressives here exert their privilege and espouse bigotry in threads dealing with race and gender identity?

A lot of people here only pretend to be progressive and act that way when it suits them.
What in the world does any of this have to do with race or gender identity? Stop trying to spin this into something it isn’t
 

Xaszatm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,359
Sadly, not surprising.



You seen how quickly a lot of white progressives here exert their privilege and espouse bigotry in threads dealing with race and gender identity?

A lot of people here only pretend to be progressive and act that way when it suits them.
Is the default response to criticism's about the Obama's going to be "ah, see, look at these racists"?
 

Deleted member 61538

Alt account
Banned
Nov 19, 2019
113
Motherfucker, she gets flack because she chose to rehabilitate the image of one of the worst war criminals alive today.
Don't try to deflect with this weak ass bullshit.
How many world leaders have met with the Xi Jinping and made trade deals. I don’t see shit being flung there way

You know the man literally running death camps in 2019. Seems like you only care when Obama is involved.

Michelle done more good for this world than you can probably comprehend
 

AntoneM

Member
Oct 25, 2017
332
Did I equate them? I said her husband is a war criminal, is that not true?



Is Obama not a war criminal? Didn't his administration at best brush off at worst allow the bombing of civilians? Or did I imagine that?
Hard to say he is a war criminal when there is no evidence, or, even "talk" that his administration purposefully targeted civilians.

Again: I did not say he was "the same" as Bush.

Again: The Obama administration bombed civilians, knowingly. They were not the target, but they did not do anything to prevent it.
I mean you are forcing me to go Rumsfeld here, but, when strategic military targets are purposefully placed in public areas then there will be civilian casualties. YET YOU HAVE NOT PROVIDED EVIDENCE THAT THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION KNOWINGLY BOMBED SOLELY CIVILIANS.

Both are war criminals. Their war crimes are not 'literally' the same, but does that even matter?

Obama is directly responsible for hundreds of deaths in Western Asia. Bush for thousands probably. This is not the war crime Olympics, both are guilty, and in a fair world, both would have been judged at an international court.
Bush for Hundreds of thousands if not more and Obama for at least thousands. Obama didn't start this and there was never going to be good end.

Why are you presuming to know what my standards are?

I never said every military person is a war criminal. Obama and Bush both definitely are, as well as many in high positions of command in the US armed forces.

Please elaborate on what that nuance is, and why does it release Obama from his crimes.

Or, let's keep pretending Obama, the anointed prince of liberalism and centrism, simply "did nothing wrong".
Not so much that he did nothing wrong, he did. He inherited a clusterfuck of a situation. Both economically and humanitarinly. Tell him to fuck off all you want, but, what would you do with the situation he inherited in West Asia? Just withdraw immediately and let warloards fight it out leading to an even worse situation than ISIS was/is?
 
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Oct 27, 2017
4,236
Is the default response to criticism's about the Obama's going to be "ah, see, look at these racists"?
False equivalencies and comparing Barack and Michelle to people like Bush and Trump is hilariously uniformed and shows a startling lack of knowledge about US foreign policy and the way it's been dictated over the past half century.

As for what you referenced, I mean, MLK spoke about white moderates eloquently enough. We've seen time and time again on this forum that self avowed progressives reveal their true selves in topics when the narrative about issues revolving around certain issues doesn't suit their interests.
 

M.Bluth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,953
How many world leaders have met with the Xi Jinping and made trade deals. I don’t see shit being flung there way

You know the man literally running death camps in 2019. Seems like you only care when Obama is involved.

Michelle done more good for this world than you can probably comprehend
lol, shifting to whataboutism now.

And, stupidly, you assume we don't think those leaders you speak of are just as despicable.
 
Oct 25, 2017
858
I mean I'd def agree this forum is not nearly as progressive as it claims to be...though not for the same reasons as the neoliberals would.
 
Feb 8, 2019
970
Hard to say he is a war criminal when there is no evidence, or, even "talk" that his administration purposefully targeted civilians.



I mean you are forcing me to go Rumsfeld here, but, when strategic military targets are purposefully placed in public areas then there will be civilian casualties. YET YOU HAVE NOT PROVIDED EVIDENCE THAT THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION KNOWINGLY BOMBED CIVILIANS.



Bush for Hundreds of thousands if not more and Obama for at least thousands. Obama didn't start this and there was never going to be good end.
Civilian deaths make up the vast majority of the casualties in the war. We have long since gone past the threshold where they can be considered collateral damage. They have become the MAIN damage.
 

Xaszatm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,359
False equivalencies and comparing Barack and Michelle to people like Bush and Trump is hilariously uniformed and shows a startling lack of knowledge about US foreign policy and the way it's been dictated over the past half century.

As for what you referenced, I mean, MLK spoke about white moderates eloquently enough. We've seen time and time again on this forum that self avowed progressives reveal their true selves in topics when the narrative about issues revolving around certain issues doesn't suit their interests.
I...Ok, admittedly I am Asian-American not African-American but I don't understand how you are using the White Moderate idea here. I thought the idea of the White Moderate were those who were comfortable where they were that they would not risk losing said comfort to help the minority population in economic/social means, even if the actual risk to said comfortably wasn't high, the very fear of losing that was enough to just let minorities be repressed via multiple means.

So, I'm failing to understand how we go from there to Criticizing Obama is racism because the White Moderate bridge.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,954
I mean you are forcing me to go Rumsfeld here, but, when strategic military targets are purposefully placed in public areas then there will be civilian casualties. YET YOU HAVE NOT PROVIDED EVIDENCE THAT THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION KNOWINGLY BOMBED SOLELY CIVILIANS.
Gets harder to prove they knowingly bombed civilians when the Obama administration literally changed the rules to say any man they killed was automatically a terrorist unless they proved otherwise. Literally guilty until proven innocent.

Of course by that point the entire wedding party has been blown to smithereens by a missile or two so people have more to worry about that posthumous exoneration.



Fuck Obama.
 

VeePs

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,130
I mean, what did you expect her to say? "Fuck that old nigga."?
I don’t expect her to act like this



Do you?


It seems she likes the dude and it seems like she genuinely believes in what she’s saying.

If he wasn’t president of America Bush would be a war criminal.


To everyone else in this thread it’s interesting reading the replies and folks defending her statement because of who she is.

Brown folks just don’t matter to some of you.
 
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