Did the OP misrepresent anything?
Class solidarity in action.
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Michelle Obama on her bond with George W. Bush: "Our values are the same"
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Class solidarity in action.
Could start by not changing policy to one of "If they died in a drone strike then they're a terrorist" in order to lie about civilian deaths like an absolute fucking monster.
im black and trying to evoke MLK and blackness as a whole to cover up for obama's fuckups is disgusting.
michelle kissing bush's ass is not a good look at all no matter how you try to paint it
That's a senseless comparison.
Negotiating with officials you might personally detest or who are responsible for all kinds of fucked up policies is a part of politics.
Hanging out with them and heaping praise on them when you're not in an official position anymore is completely different.
And I can't recall anyone saying how they share the same values with Xi Jinping or how he's all about 'love and compassion'.
W is lucky that America doesn't give a shit about non-Americans because that man should be in jail for a long long time. Michelle continually going to bat for him is really disappointing.
I don't think a lot of people here know what a war criminal is.
Bush: inventing reasons to go to war leading to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people=war criminal
Obama: Killing civilians while targeting military targets=not a war criminal.
If Obama had ordered bombings of civilians only, then yes he would be a war criminal. As far as I know that isn't the case though. I think Obama did the best the we could to not make it worse. As far as I'm concerned every death in Iraq and Afghanistan is on Bush. He's the one who got us into all this.
Bush: inventing reasons to go to war leading to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people=war criminal
Obama: Killing civilians while targeting military targets=not a war criminal.
If Obama had ordered bombings of civilians only, then yes he would be a war criminal. As far as I know that isn't the case though. I think Obama did the best the we could to not make it worse. As far as I'm concerned every death in Iraq and Afghanistan is on Bush. He's the one who got us into all this.
Obama ordered drone strikes outside of those two countries though lol
I mean I'm not really interested in playing the who's the war criminal game, the fact of the matter is both did some heinous shit but Bush was far far worse
Seems like teh establishment is rearing their ugly head publicly and brazenly. Why they don't care is probably because of the same reason Buttigieg is rising in the polls and Biden is still maintaining a lead 😞😞😞
Have you read the Washington Post report on the war in Afghanistan?
They systematically lied to the American public for 8 years about that war.
I mean, I can list more things, but that shit just dropped -
Remember when Obama ordered a drone strike which killed an American teenager in a country the US wasn't at war with and nobody batted a fucking eyelid?
Oh right he was brown with a funny sounding name so nobody gave a shit. Then the white House press Secretary got up and said "well maybe if his dad was nicer the kid wouldn't have had a predator missile dropped on his head"
Of course they share the same values as war criminals as Dubya.
Oh right he was brown with a funny sounding name so nobody gave a shit. Then the white House press Secretary got up and said "well maybe if his dad was nicer the kid wouldn't have had a predator missile dropped on his head"
Of course they share the same values as war criminals as Dubya.
As awful as that is, you are deflecting from what you would have suggested Obama had done differently. By "done" I mean actions he took, not policy changes that discharged himself from guilt for the actions he took.
If we're speaking purely one or the other thats gonna be a hard sell to the domestic crowd.
Granted, from my vantage point the latter helped make the former but nuance is not Peoples' strong suit.
All it takes for evil people to win is for good people to share the same values.
Maybe that should be the updated quote. The rich have the tightest class solidarity of all. Her words about everyone getting along and policy making no real difference infuriate the fuck out of me. It must be nice to not have to worry about any of this because your privilege makes you above it. Nothing the Republicans do could hurt her now; in fact, their policies would help her.
Give me more people like AOC in politics.
Maybe that should be the updated quote. The rich have the tightest class solidarity of all. Her words about everyone getting along and policy making no real difference infuriate the fuck out of me. It must be nice to not have to worry about any of this because your privilege makes you above it. Nothing the Republicans do could hurt her now; in fact, their policies would help her.
Give me more people like AOC in politics.
I think it is incredibly hard for the American psyche, or at least liberal voters, to reflect deeply and critically about Barack Obama and also Michelle. They are treasured for a reason, and especially in a time of overt white supremacy.
But what Obama(s) and Bush(s) share in value is that they are imperialists. This means that you can sit down with Jenna Bush, or with any white elite, and fondly reminiscence how war crimes and the annihilation of brown civilians is just "policy" - and how many you annihilate and by what technology is just a "difference in policy". How there was a time in "history" where you could just sit down in a civil manner with people who you share a class consciousness with and agree that killing people in the name of Empire is good for America by averting the discussion from how inequality is the source of your wealth and privilege, you just disagree how overtly racist the justification should be and how many have to die. You as part of the elite can identify with the compartmentalization of "values" from "policy", from being complicit in killing thousand of civilians and going home and embracing your family, of not being a monster, of not having fangs, you can recognize and forgive because you both *truly* believe that you part-take in savage killings is saving the Empire abroad. You can see the father behind the imperialist, the loving husband behind the colonizer. You look at Jenna, deep into her eyes, and you know that being here, with these Vietnamese girls, and Julia Roberts, saving these girls, giving them the voice they deserve, your voice, makes it clear to you, it was worth it, they had to die so these other brown people could live. You are an elite class of pragmatists, after all.
The context of that video is actually really important, as someone pointed out previously in this thread in order to recast the comment as "out of context" - I think it shows the comments exactly in the right in context. The context is: the political elites, the justifications for Empire, American exceptionalism, and how making sense of savage policies of conquest and killing is merely a tonal shift in policy - the chords changing from the major lift to the minor fall in imperial conquest. 'Policy' here meaning what justifications are offered for the pragmatics of killing brown civilian populations without remorse. The justifications and modes are different, but they justify the same thing: Empire at the expense of brown people's lives abroad. The context of that video also shows well how the justification is produced among liberal elites, through "humanitarianism" - the backdrop for the interview is Americans saving the Vietnamese girls (from the legacy of previous American Empire Dreams and interventions) - and how that is different from the justifications of what Bush (re)presents. They share the values of recasting war crimes as humanitarianism and savior, but the justification, the discourse used to create pro-imperial consensus, is vastly different because the constituents. One uses explicitly racist arguments for domination, the other merely implicitly as it justifies empire as a humane venture delivering progress, the inferiority of the Other is still there, but hidden just behind the facade. So yes, the values are the same - the recasting of killing of brown people as benign - but the policy and discourse are vastly different.
But what Obama(s) and Bush(s) share in value is that they are imperialists. This means that you can sit down with Jenna Bush, or with any white elite, and fondly reminiscence how war crimes and the annihilation of brown civilians is just "policy" - and how many you annihilate and by what technology is just a "difference in policy". How there was a time in "history" where you could just sit down in a civil manner with people who you share a class consciousness with and agree that killing people in the name of Empire is good for America by averting the discussion from how inequality is the source of your wealth and privilege, you just disagree how overtly racist the justification should be and how many have to die. You as part of the elite can identify with the compartmentalization of "values" from "policy", from being complicit in killing thousand of civilians and going home and embracing your family, of not being a monster, of not having fangs, you can recognize and forgive because you both *truly* believe that you part-take in savage killings is saving the Empire abroad. You can see the father behind the imperialist, the loving husband behind the colonizer. You look at Jenna, deep into her eyes, and you know that being here, with these Vietnamese girls, and Julia Roberts, saving these girls, giving them the voice they deserve, your voice, makes it clear to you, it was worth it, they had to die so these other brown people could live. You are an elite class of pragmatists, after all.
The context of that video is actually really important, as someone pointed out previously in this thread in order to recast the comment as "out of context" - I think it shows the comments exactly in the right in context. The context is: the political elites, the justifications for Empire, American exceptionalism, and how making sense of savage policies of conquest and killing is merely a tonal shift in policy - the chords changing from the major lift to the minor fall in imperial conquest. 'Policy' here meaning what justifications are offered for the pragmatics of killing brown civilian populations without remorse. The justifications and modes are different, but they justify the same thing: Empire at the expense of brown people's lives abroad. The context of that video also shows well how the justification is produced among liberal elites, through "humanitarianism" - the backdrop for the interview is Americans saving the Vietnamese girls (from the legacy of previous American Empire Dreams and interventions) - and how that is different from the justifications of what Bush (re)presents. They share the values of recasting war crimes as humanitarianism and savior, but the justification, the discourse used to create pro-imperial consensus, is vastly different because the constituents. One uses explicitly racist arguments for domination, the other merely implicitly as it justifies empire as a humane venture delivering progress, the inferiority of the Other is still there, but hidden just behind the facade. So yes, the values are the same - the recasting of killing of brown people as benign - but the policy and discourse are vastly different.
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In our collective defense Americans don't have the bloodlust anymore; or at least like we did in the 2000s.
Perhaps some reflection is on the way...for some of us. Fox news won't let that happen.
My friend, MLK was talking about the Obamas with that one
I mean, war crimes come with the territory for US presidents, I guess due to the nature of the US ans its military. Not saying we should let it slide, but it's a bit predictable. But this,
This was a deliberate, intententional extrajudicial murder of your own citizen. I don't think he gets nearly enough criticism for this.
Remember when Obama ordered a drone strike which killed an American teenager in a country the US wasn't at war with and nobody batted a fucking eyelid?
Oh right he was brown with a funny sounding name so nobody gave a shit. Then the white House press Secretary got up and said "well maybe if his dad was nicer the kid wouldn't have had a predator missile dropped on his head"
Of course they share the same values as war criminals as Dubya.
This was a deliberate, intententional extrajudicial murder of your own citizen. I don't think he gets nearly enough criticism for this.
Same ideas on humanity, huh. Michelle must also think people from the ME are sub-human. Of course they have the same values. Millionaires need to stick together or the dirty poor will come for your money! Such charitable people though. So nice. But paying a fair share of taxes? Buddy, buddy, buddy — take it easy.
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I'm pretty sure we can have some granularity or nuance in this discussion.
You can talk about drone strikes with Obama, but the degree with which he had any involvement in anything inhumane is pretty limited.
George W Bush by comparison authorized one of the worst military initiatives in American history on the basis of a complete fabrication (a total lie if you will).
Also, I would find it extremely unlikely that GWB or Obama would be similar in any consideration of social justice values.
The only similarity might be economic, but even then, I'm sure Obama would be more liberal.
I don't think Michelle really understands the gravity of her comment and hopefully she reflects on this and changes her mind.
You can talk about drone strikes with Obama, but the degree with which he had any involvement in anything inhumane is pretty limited.
George W Bush by comparison authorized one of the worst military initiatives in American history on the basis of a complete fabrication (a total lie if you will).
Also, I would find it extremely unlikely that GWB or Obama would be similar in any consideration of social justice values.
The only similarity might be economic, but even then, I'm sure Obama would be more liberal.
I don't think Michelle really understands the gravity of her comment and hopefully she reflects on this and changes her mind.
"Values" is an empty enough word that what she's saying isn't that crazy to me. I'm sure if most people here had a conversation with George Bush, stripped from the context of history, about the things they valued in a society, there would be a lot of overlap. The difference is in what those values specifically mean to each person, how important they each are, and what policies people think are important to carry out those values. And I think ignoring this similarity in values is a bad thing.
If my spouse became a war criminal I would get a divorce, not befriend other war criminals...
I think what she probably means is bush is a pleasant human being. Living in a town full of white racist people I see that said a lot when ever I tell people that so and is racist trash lol. It's always doesn't bother me, they are nice. A lot of people in America seem to judge people by how they act to them and not by what the way or do. They whole I don't care because it does not effect me.
I wonder, of what the two of them ever stood for. You know? How much was real, or just blatant pandering.
Well... Mainstream back in the day was supporting all out war against a foreign country with literally bad evidence. Sometimes it's okay to hold onto your own values when they throw you outside the norm.
That's some class solidarity.
Disgusting people. Bush, the Obamas, the Clintons, the Trumps, Kissinger etc. They'll get to live the rest of their lives acting like they've done nothing wrong.
I wish they faced real justice.
Disgusting people. Bush, the Obamas, the Clintons, the Trumps, Kissinger etc. They'll get to live the rest of their lives acting like they've done nothing wrong.
I wish they faced real justice.
Sure, his values may be all fine and dandy, but look at what he did. hundreds of thousands of people lost their lives because of his fake war based on lies.
He should be held accountable, not whitewashed as a cute grandpa. Jesus christ sometimes there is no justice at all. Fuck bush.
He should be held accountable, not whitewashed as a cute grandpa. Jesus christ sometimes there is no justice at all. Fuck bush.
These drops are always weird because it assumes that the "mainstream" or what has been normalized is actually good.
""I personally, and I think so many of us, miss a time where people who have different opinions get along," she said. "And I yearn for that. I want my kids to realize that we live in a world when people are think tons of different things and we treat everybody with respect and kindness."
Seems like everybody missed that quote. Holy.
Seems like everybody missed that quote. Holy.
Lots of people like the war criminal so I, too, must like the war criminal.
Good take. Just a great take.
Her saying this specifically in context about Bush is really something.
They can keep that soft "we can get along" tripe away, it doesn't solve anything. Nothing about them screams "respect and kindness".
Fake af.
The mainstream were for the war in Iraq, so no, I don't value their thought process, especially the citizens of the U.S when it comes to foreign affairs.
Being "outside of the mainstream" in this regard can only be a good thing.
It reminds me how little America-Era thinks about outside their country.
This isn't about thinking, everyone can think whatever they want and be free to befriend whoever they want.
This is about white-washing a war criminal, one that hasn't faced the consequence of his actions only because he was the president of the US once.
There is a huge gap about thinking something bad and actually do it, especially something as bad as lying to make a war to bomb brown innocents.
I honestly don't give a damn about who Michelle wants to be friend. I just hate how this war criminal keeps being white washed and it's not where he deserves to be: in a jail.
Man I feel like a horrible person and Michelle has really opened my eyes.
Time to start being nice to Trumpers and get back to that halcyon time of national unity and togetherness.
problem with that quote is that what she describes is basically an illusion right now. She wants to go back to when truly horrible people were smiling at you while they bided their time until they found out how to beat you and take over. As is finally threatening our world now. It would be great if we all got along, maybe some day we can do better than ever. But we can't be blind. We can't carouse with dictators and mass murderers and then wonder what happened to our glorious and free society.
Our leaders have learned Nothing. Capital N.
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