• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.
Status
Not open for further replies.

-Devious-

Member
Oct 25, 2017
202
Probably because the role of president puts you in an unavoidable position where innocent people will die.

the same scenarios could happen with Warren and Bernie unless they go full pacifist. The enemy hides amongst innocent civilians. It's not like they are in separate bad guy headquarters away from innocent life. Is Bush more guilty than others? Sure but is there any US president in recent times that didn't get innocents killedwhen fighting terrorist?

also I don't think they take the news of "we got the target but there was a lot of collataral" is no big deal. I'm sure it fucks with their mental health. Someone like Trump though? He wouldn't care.
Obama didn't seem to care.


"Kill chain" operations expanded under Barack Obama, who authorized roughly 500 drone strikes outside active conflict zones during his presidency, 10 times the number under George W. Bush.

From his first days as commander in chief, the drone has been President Barack Obama's weapon of choice, used by the military and the CIA to hunt down and kill the people his administration has deemed — through secretive processes, without indictment or trial — worthy of execution. There has been intense focus on the technology of remote killing, but that often serves as a surrogate for what should be a broader examination of the state's power over life and death.

If Obama apologized for 1 civilian drone victim every day, it would take him 3 years

General Stanley McChrystal (Ret.), who led coalition forces in Afghanistan and was the head of the U.S. Joint Special Operations Command, has said that drone strikes create "a perception of arrogance... a perception of helpless people in an area being shot at like thunderbolts from the sky by an entity that is acting as though they have omniscience and omnipotence." The testimonies in this report confirm his observations. Yaslem Saeed bin Ishaq, whose son was killed in an August 1, 2013 U.S. drone strike said: "They just kill. They do not know what havoc their missiles have caused. They are unaware of the suffering they create for our families." Moqbel Abdullah Ali al-Jarraah, a villager from Silat al-Jarraah, where a January 23, 2013 U.S. airstrike hit a civilian house, observed: "I believe that America is testing its lethal inventions in our poor villages, because [it] cannot afford to do so at any place where human life has value. Here, we are without value.
 
Nov 1, 2017
1,141
I think it is incredibly hard for the American psyche, or at least liberal voters, to reflect deeply and critically about Barack Obama and also Michelle. They are treasured for a reason, and especially in a time of overt white supremacy.

But what Obama(s) and Bush(s) share in value is that they are imperialists. This means that you can sit down with Jenna Bush, or with any white elite, and fondly reminiscence how war crimes and the annihilation of brown civilians is just "policy" - and how many you annihilate and by what technology is just a "difference in policy". How there was a time in "history" where you could just sit down in a civil manner with people who you share a class consciousness with and agree that killing people in the name of Empire is good for America by averting the discussion from how inequality is the source of your wealth and privilege, you just disagree how overtly racist the justification should be and how many have to die. You as part of the elite can identify with the compartmentalization of "values" from "policy", from being complicit in killing thousand of civilians and going home and embracing your family, of not being a monster, of not having fangs, you can recognize and forgive because you both *truly* believe that you part-take in savage killings is saving the Empire abroad. You can see the father behind the imperialist, the loving husband behind the colonizer. You look at Jenna, deep into her eyes, and you know that being here, with these Vietnamese girls, and Julia Roberts, saving these girls, giving them the voice they deserve, your voice, makes it clear to you, it was worth it, they had to die so these other brown people could live. You are an elite class of pragmatists, after all.

The context of that video is actually really important, as someone pointed out previously in this thread in order to recast the comment as "out of context" - I think it shows the comments exactly in the right in context. The context is: the political elites, the justifications for Empire, American exceptionalism, and how making sense of savage policies of conquest and killing is merely a tonal shift in policy - the chords changing from the major lift to the minor fall in imperial conquest. 'Policy' here meaning what justifications are offered for the pragmatics of killing brown civilian populations without remorse. The justifications and modes are different, but they justify the same thing: Empire at the expense of brown people's lives abroad. The context of that video also shows well how the justification is produced among liberal elites, through "humanitarianism" - the backdrop for the interview is Americans saving the Vietnamese girls (from the legacy of previous American Empire Dreams and interventions) - and how that is different from the justifications of what Bush (re)presents. They share the values of recasting war crimes as humanitarianism and savior, but the justification, the discourse used to create pro-imperial consensus, is vastly different because the constituents. One uses explicitly racist arguments for domination, the other merely implicitly as it justifies empire as a humane venture delivering progress, the inferiority of the Other is still there, but hidden just behind the facade. So yes, the values are the same - the recasting of killing of brown people as benign - but the policy and discourse are vastly different.

The bolded is one aspect I often deal with. I feel like I defend Obama's presidency far more than I wish I had too because of them being black and that being where much of the mainstream criticism came from. I know this because while even as a voter while I was protesting, writing and demanding better from him on this front I had to listen to racist people saying that he was socialist.

"My values are the same with the person who is responsible for mass genocide and sufferings of millions based on lies and he knows it's a lie"

WTF are some of you doing trying to defend this reprehensible shit. Get out of here with all "we should be nice to each other" bullcrap for stuff like this.

You people defending her here just doesn't care about brown people, do you? You don't give a shit about them and don't even start pretending to act otherwise. And to have the gall to tie people feeling annoyed by that statement with "you say that just because she's a black woman/Obama's wife', fuck that shit.

God it's infuriating to read some of the responses here. Unbelievable, just unbelievable how low she and you people defending her shit value the life of people who are suffering under the Iraq wars. Fuck off.

It is incredibly disappointing to see when people do this. Far too many people seem to have put out of sight and mind just how much suffering is tied to these wars. Millions of lives affected for the worse.

If the Obama's were White they would do nearly nothing for me at this point. Those bougie folks are symbols only and keep caping for regressive ideas and people. The funny thing is people out here truly thinking they're the best Black America has to offer.

Martin & Coretta, Malcolm & Betty >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Obamas

I really wish that they would stop talking about getting things back to where they used to be. The status quo they think was lost was atrocious for so many. I'm not trying to get back to that, I'm trying to get us to where we should have been so I can stop having civil rights movement and holocaust survivors apologizing to me because they feel like they've failed the younger generations.
 

DiK4

Banned
Nov 4, 2017
1,085
There's Brief moments like this when people start to realize that pretty much (bar a few who get pushed out) all politicians weather left wing or right wing are all part of the same crooked bird. Then we go back to regular programming and fighting amongst one another so we don't notice as much
TRUTH
 

Mr.Arrow

Member
Dec 6, 2018
235
Obama is a centrist. Why can't people understand??? He's no different than all the shitty people like Biden and the Clinton's family.
 

Deleted member 38573

User requested account closure
Banned
Jan 17, 2018
3,902
You can still be a centrist whilst denouncing Obama - especially on foreign policy

Tony Blair can't get a word in unless he's caping for the Conservatives or being interviewed by his buddies.
 

Starmud

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,443
The Obama's long subscribed to both side-ism. it's not surprising once they left office you've seen them cozy up with others regardless of record.

I already expect to see trump accepted in social circles not long after being out of office. It's a powerful title and easy to assimilate once out of the White House.

This is something we all do in society to a degree. As leaders or famous people fall out of power and age we seem to forgive, forget past sins and equate wrongful actions to being history book material. This is fair in some ways, history settles and we move on from debate over what was wrong or right at any time.

That said, some actions deserve continued condemnation. I wouldnt expect her to say anything negative about him, but she didn't need to provide him cover. Leave folksy Bush back at the family compound to paint and reflect. Whatever ill feelings he may catch is well deserved.
 

jett

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,660
Of course. Both him and her husband are bonafide war criminals.
 

Biggersmaller

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,966
Minneapolis
"We disagree on policy, but we don't disagree on humanity, we don't disagree about love and compassion."

Sorry Mrs. Obama, what a weak ass nonsensical platitude. A murderous corrupt war built on lies was the regard for "humanity" under both presidencies and the policy failure of the last 20 years.

George W Bush was the idiot bitch tool of Dick Cheney. I'll have to sleep on my words for Michelle Obama, because I used to be a fan. But they will most likely not be kind words in the end.
 
Oct 27, 2017
11,512
Bandung Indonesia
Can't believe she even dares to talk about love and compassion about a guy who instigated a war based on lies that caused untold millions to suffer.

Again, fuck off to her and all the people that defended her statement, including all the fuckers who did so in this very topic. You all know who you are.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,510
Every past and future president will be a war criminal if we're going by that. Why care about any of the nominees?

It'd be one thing if Obama deescalated the conflicts abroad and actually alleviated the situation, it's another to escalate and drone the hell out of the ME, including countries you're not even at war with.

It's not a stretch to suggest that Bush and Obama have little difference with regards to foreign policy, to then take that comment and post "Why care about any of the nominees?" is ignorant. Not when you have a nominee promising to disengage and help alleviate the situation.

You're effectively asking "Why do anything about it when they're all the same?".
 

steejee

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,620
This feels like her personal relationship clouding her judgement on him as a person (and really just not wanting to stir up the shit). She doesn't need to tear into him for the blood on his hands, but she doesn't need to compliment him so much either.

Obama has blood on his hands but he doesn't compare to W on that front - Obama I'm pretty confident would never have started a war in Iraq at least, especially not on a total lie. Though the WaPo Afghanistan Papers report was pretty damning across the board for both them and military leadership in that conflict.
 

Deleted member 60295

User requested account closure
Banned
Sep 28, 2019
1,489
Yeah, I'm sorry, but far as I'm concerned, there's no excusing the dude who used fictional weapons of mass destruction as a justification for invading an oil rich country.
 

Jexhius

Community Resetter
Member
Oct 25, 2017
965
Its not news that she's a terrible human being, but at least she's making it nice and clear to everyone else.

Maybe she's picked it up from Trump. There's no point in hiding your terrible opinions because apparently no-one cares.
 

Semfry

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,956
Apparently Neoliberals have decided that the answer to actual leftish movements and people gaining strength is to just drop the mask entirely.
 
Last edited:

Annoying Old Party Man

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
966
Why is she doing this? And how the fuck they have developed a friendship? Is Bush just an overtly pleasant person to be around? He does great portraits or smth?
 

saenima

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,892
This fucking thread. I'm not surprised to see so many people defending war criminals, especially in a US centric site. But it will never stop being disappointing. Political cowardice is a brain rotting disease.

If the excuse is that every American President is a war criminal, as some say, then guess what, all of them fucking need to be judged and punished as such. No exceptions. And yes, Obama is most definitely a war criminal. As is Bush. As is Trump.

American Empire is a cancer that has killed millions and millions of people. 4 million people in Vietnam alone, where these people are now playing charity for fun.
 

Jmdajr

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,534
Whether she loves him or hates him, it don't matter.

I am worried about our current problems.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,510
Ever think this kind of thing IS a current problem? Normalizing global mass murder?


Everyone who is defending this rubbish here and elsewhere should be forced to see these images.

This fucking thread. I'm not surprised to see so many people defending war criminals, especially in a US centric site. But it will never stop being disappointing. Political cowardice is a brain rotting disease.

If the excuse is that every American President is a war criminal, as some say, then guess what, all of them fucking need to be judged and punished as such. No exceptions. And yes, Obama is most definitely a war criminal. As is Bush. As is Trump.

American Empire is a cancer that has killed millions and millions of people. 4 million people in Vietnam alone, where these people are now playing charity for fun.
No lies detected.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,510
Within the context of what she's obviously talking about, sure.

Era extreme gonna extreme, though. Keep on attacking this amazing black woman. The rest of us see you. And don't worry about us; we're used to it.

for example. lol. we see you people.
Jexhius isn't wrong tho.

No use defending someone from their own words, and yes, I'll continue to attack those who excuse war criminals.
There is no context where this is fine, she was better off not complimenting him at all, yet she continues to repair his image.
For what?

Also. "We see you" isn't a threat bruh..
 

Deleted member 5127

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,584
She makes some good points here, these days people(especially Americans) can't handle each other unless their opinions align 100%.
 

FliX

Master of the Reality Stone
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
9,876
Metro Detroit
I hope this has been posted already, if not here it, elsewise here it is again.
Let's not allow this to happen!

 
Oct 25, 2017
7,510
In the same thread where people are posting literal images from Abu Ghraib.
There are some that still defend what she is doing with Bush and say she had some good points?
What?
 

saenima

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,892
Don't spoil the fact that the next president will also have blood on their hands.

Very glad that Michelle hasn't abandoned her Christianity and succumbed to the ever increasing demands of spitefulness and hatred pervasive in current politics.

Christianity=Bombing brown people?

Spitefulness=Holding criminals accountable?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.