Microsoft has a problem with Xbox that it can't buy its way out of..

Oct 27, 2017
3,458
Have they tried using the Infinite Power of the Cloud?
Even I have my limits.

=)

I don't know about this article. I mean if Xbox division is making money then who cares, if does make money. The whole most units thing gets tiresome. If they are profitable they will probably be around.
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,600
No matter what they do, they are harshly criticized.
Gonna agree with this. The difference between when the Xbox One was revealed to now is a huge difference, but they still get thrown under the bus. The changes they've made have shown they listen to consumers a lot. Some people are just console warriors.
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,600
Thank you for the figures Zhuge. No wonder MS has stopped reporting hardware sales numbers.
Xbox One was outselling the 360 until very recently. Its not like they are doing piss poor. The PS4 is just doing extremely, extremely well. Though with MS being the newest to the console market I'm curious how people will treat the next console release after their poor E3 reveal several years ago.
 

kappa_krey

Banned
Member
Jan 24, 2018
630
If Game Pass really takes off they could sell XBO-2 with a perk of having free online. But that's just the beginning of my fantasy scenario of companies realising that online fees scare away more revenue than they bring in.
Yeah, exactly. And I'd love if MS reaches out to bring in a great diverse range of games that'd be other great fits to it. Mid-tier arcade games, for example, that wouldn't have a home as $60 AAA releases but would also need more than $10/$15 indie pricing to recoup costs over time. Quite a few of those games I'd like to play at home.

Game Pass could be used to ease away the need for paid XBL, because people are definitely going to see the value in having all those AAA games at their fingertips, in full, playing locally vs. streamed, for the cost of like a Netflix sub (if even that much, but we'll just say that much to be safe).

Xbox One is around 35 million worldwide.
Isn't that number from a pretty long time ago? Certainly can't include the holiday NPD numbers of recent, b/c I remember seeing that 35 million around holiday 2016 or such.

That is my entire point, though. It won't. But more importantly, an Xbox Two that launches in '20 for 400 dollars sure as shit isn't going to be some huge improvement over the X. The difference between the Pro to the PS5 and the X to the XBT should be at worst equal, and that's not feasible without charging a lot more than Sony, or releasing a lot later than Sony. They can do neither.

However, that's my perspective that X owners would want a substantial technical upgrade, similar to the one they've just had. If they don't care about that, then I guess it doesn't matter. We shall see.
Thing is, an XBO-2 wouldn't need to be a super-massive jump over XBO-X, just enough to compete w/ PS5 on specs and not be in a situation XBO was to PS4 early on. Besides, if it were, say, a massive jump over XBO-X (and a sizable amount beyond PS5), games would still be developed with the PS5 in mind, not really taking too much advantage of the XBO-2's additional power, unless they were first-party of course.

And I think, despite what people feel right now, being more powerful isn't as big a deal as it seems. PS4 lucked out in that respect, but traditionally, Sony's never had the clear power advantage with any of their other systems other than the PSP and Vita (both handhelds). They go for a more balanced approach, PS4 just lucked out w/ the extra GDDR5 being available at the time. There's nothing preventing MS from taking that approach because in a way it's kind of what they did w/ the 360, the only difference this time would be them launching alongside Sony instead of a year ahead.

So it'd take more than being more powerful to give them the edge there, that's where things like Game Pass can come in, along with solid marketing deals and exclusives. And for MS's sake, I hope they are at work on some exclusives right now in time for an XBO-2's launch in 2020, they will be necessary.
 
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Rahxephon91

Banned
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,371
The Xbox brand just doesn't have anything exciting. That's the problem and it's not solely exclusives.

No doubt the PlayStation Brand has excitement thanks to it's exclusives. As does the Switch, but it's not like Xbox dosen't have exclusives. It's just Gears and Halo are so tired and past the cultural phenom that they use to be. They aren't pushed as significant single player experiences either so they miss the spotlite that Sony exclusives gain. They also haven't caught the e-sports crowd. Gears 4 was safe and Halo has doubled down on being well Halo and it's not catching fire like it use to. Doubling down on your backstory and lore is kind of a double edged sword. Sure you keep your old fans "happy", but you run the risk of not appealing to new people which is what Halo 4 and 5 have done. Gears was just a cookie cutter sequel. Boring. These big games needed new directions. They did nothing to help the Xbox brand feel exciting.

PUG could have helped and no doubt has somewhat, but sadly Fortnite kind of has hurt that game's spotlight on consoles.

New IPs or resurgence of loved ips could have helped, but MS has been terrible at that. None of their games have been in line with trends. Sony gets away with these movie games like Uncharted. Sure, but people praise it because it's uniquely a video game. Quantum Break was a great game, but at this point in time no one gives a fuck that you made live action scenes when we can digitize actors. Such a misguided project.

Crackdown 3 is a constant question if it's canceled, not the constant hype that it will bring the series back to the heights of one.

Sea of Thieves could be a good game, but we had our NMS already. It feels a little late and hardly as exciting.

Things like BC are nice, but honestly BC is irrelevant. You speak to the choir with that. Old things don't really get people buzzing about the future of your brand.

You're PC initiatives while great for the consumer also make the consumer think more about the PC and not about the xbox.

The xbox brand just lacks something.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,072
Probably not. But then again this entire console generation is going to see less consoles sold than last gen. Despite that, gamers are buying more games than ever, they're subscribing to more services than ever, they're buying more add on content than ever. In Microsoft's case they're expanding the audience via PC and multiplatform games like Minecraft.

Console hardware sales are still important, but not nearly as important as they were.
I also think at least in the 360's case the numbers are somewhat inflated due to the RROD and E74 and other problems that the systems had. I bought 3 different 360's all brand new, first one died before the 3 year warranty thing started up so I bought a second one after they started that and eventually put that towards a slim when those came out. I am far from the only person who bought multiple XB360s, I worked at Gamestop for nearly a decade all during the RROD shit and the amount of consoles that were bought by people trading in their old systems after they died was absolutely insane, were talking at least 1 system sold every day that was to replace a dead system, it ramped up massively once the slim came out because a lot of people were just tired of dealing with it. While yes a ton of people got replacements by sending them in, those replacements would eventually die as well.

It wasn't just 360 either, the PS3's Yellow Light of death on the first model was also fairly common, it wasn't as well know or reported as the RROD but it had a host of similar sales/trades of that as well. I bought 2 PS3's because of that as well a 60gig and then eventually the 500g slim. The last generation had really big hardware issues much more so then any generation before and after and despite that a lot of people didn't give up gaming or their system of choice (some people did switch to the other though, I had one guy who bought more then 10 new PS3 and 360 systems himself, each. He would literally buy one, play it for a month or more then trade it in and buy the other one, always bought them new) so a lot more systems were sold because of that. I couldn't even fathom exact figures but I'd say its significant, maybe 10% of the total systems sold were replacements and I think I'm being rather conservative on that estimate and I think thats why hardware sales were as high as they were last generation at least it was a significant contributing factor in the case of the 360.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,897
Given how people seem to be souring on Sony recently for things like no BC and not allowing some crossplay, I could buy a narrative of scrappy underdog Microsoft pulling the rug out from arrogant, bloated Sony next generation. History doesn't necessarily repeat itself, but it often rhymes.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,018
Probably not. But then again this entire console generation is going to see less consoles sold than last gen. Despite that, gamers are buying more games than ever, they're subscribing to more services than ever, they're buying more add on content than ever. In Microsoft's case they're expanding the audience via PC and multiplatform games like Minecraft.

Console hardware sales are still important, but not nearly as important as they were.
This post should not get overlooked. (But it already had and will continue to do so)
 

ZhugeEX

诸葛亮 - 卧龙
Administrator
Oct 24, 2017
2,740
This post should not get overlooked. (But it already had and will continue to do so)
Indeed.

Some people in this thread are too concerned about making sure we're aware the PS4 has a lead over the Xbox One. Something we've known since 2013.
 

StuBurns

Self Requested Temporary Ban
Member
Nov 12, 2017
7,199
In the US, when launch aligned, yes.

The One X got off to a really good start.
That's really impressive to me, given the extra price, and not really having 'launch' games like the Pro felt like it did with stuff like FFXV and TLG.

I can see it from both sides though, on one level, it would seem to show there's a greater market within the Xbox community that are ready for a higher spec Xbox, which bodes well for a real next-gen system. On the other hand, it also means more of them will have splashed out more recently, and at a larger cost than their Pro peers.

The whole PC argument is strange to me. I can see people with gaming PCs say there's no reason why they'd buy an Xbox, but that doesn't seem to be what MS are even trying to do with their PC support. I see it more as a dedicated gaming HTPC alternative. You could buy a SteamMachine, but spec wise, for the cost you're not getting as good of a box. You have a larger library, but if all you care about is TV/gamepad experiences, it's not as big a difference on a practical level as it first appears.

Ultimately, how many boxes MS sell doesn't matter. It's how many games, Gold memberships, Pass subscriptions, etc that actually matters.
 
Oct 26, 2017
1,313
Orange County
One of the biggest complains is how Xbox has no exclusives because the games are also in PC.

This is however, the new directive by MS. By building a connected eco system will expand its user base and longevity of many GAAS games.

Many don't seem to understand this and rather Xbox just do Xbox games like before. MS themselves have done the research and they know that those gaming on PC won't affect the Xbox sales. Maybe a few here and there??

I personally I have a great PC and I still choose to game on my Xbox.
I don't know why but this made me laugh.
 
Oct 28, 2017
10,210
User Warned: Driveby post that adds nothing to the thread
Is this the weekly Xbox is doomed thread

Four years. Four years claiming Microsoft is going to kill the xbox division next month and put out all their games on other consoles. Four years being wrong. Don't you folks ever get tired of this?

It's even more baffling when people say gamepass is the biggest indicator they're going to go PS4/switch because "streaming". Do you people even know what gamepass is?
 
Oct 27, 2017
987
I’d imagine it would take years and years for MS to see a return on the high costs of buying EA. Just doesn’t seem like a viable means to turn things around.

Going "streaming" only I can see, or at least stepping away from the traditional ‘box’ console format. That’s what game pass is essentially, and I imagine that’s where they see their future. Xbox as a service. Games as a service. Why do they even need a ‘platform’ really?. They already have no console exclusives anymore because everything is on PC. Hell, I can even see a future where Xbox is just a service akin to Netflix that you stick it on whatever device you fancy.
Kinda hard to be a Netflix type service on “any platform” when you’re trying to sell the same games as the platform you’re on. Microsoft needs a platform of their own because neither Sony or Nintendo will allow an app on their systems that sells third party game access outside of their stores. So MS would have to be a steaming only service for smart TVs or something. PC already has a Microsoft game store on it.

Microsoft needs a console if they actually know it or not. Otherwise why’ll be killing off millions of dollars in Live subs, third party game sales and the etc.
 

~Fake

User requested permanent ban
Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,966
Not really when they are making a ton of money from digital services and content; More than what they made during the 360 gen.
We're speaking about hardwares... not about 'how money they made'. I know Microsoft made money for differentes services: Xbox, Azure, Office, Windows,etc...
The problem is... Xbox started really bad and so bad then they had to change the strategy much more than the original Xbox 360 era. Their answer is: forget the numbers, we make money and that's what matters.
Think about: What the next slogan of the next gen Xbox? Same as Xbox One X? ''The most powerful console ever, but hey we made money from diferente sources''... Microsoft stopped showing numbers a long time ago. They made money from Xbox? Of course they did, but use this as a excuse to not show numbers is a bad move in many levels.
Is this the weekly Xbox is doomed thread

Four years. Four years claiming Microsoft is going to kill the xbox division next month and put out all their games on other consoles. Four years being wrong. Don't you folks ever get tired of this?

It's even more baffling when people say gamepass is the biggest indicator they're going to go PS4/switch because "streaming". Do you people even know what gamepass is?
Why so defensive? If you do not like these types of topics then do not even post work. I like numbers and sales figures. Wonder if Microsoft has come up with several of those forum topics that we can not mention and absorbed all the feedback and made the Xbox better with it.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
2,072
We're speaking about hardwares... not about 'how money they made'. I know Microsoft made money for differentes services: Xbox, Azure, Office, Windows,etc...
The problem is... Xbox started really bad and so bad then they had to change the strategy much more than the original Xbox 360 era.
Think about: What the next slogan of the next gen Xbox? Same as Xbox One X? ''The most powerful console ever'... Microsoft stopped showing numbers a long time ago. They made money from Xbox? Of course they did, but use this as a excuse to not show numbers is a bad move in many levels.
I think the Game pass is the key that they are focusing on going forward, its just a matter of getting third parties on board with it. I think what they are doing right now by setting it up for their own games is a way to see just how successful it could potentially be as a gambit to present towards third parties and get them to do the same, I think EA would be an easy lock for the service at least for their sports titles with how much money they are already making from the Ultimate Team modes and what not but the question ends up being is if EA will join Microsoft's service in some kind of joint deal or just make EA Access a bigger thing from it. At this point while I'm sure Microsoft would love to nail down a few more exclusives in some way I think that they are thinking 5 years from now and making plans around how they can reach that now or put in place systems to support that future goal rather then worrying about their immediate future in this generation.
 

Jokegeta

Banned
Member
Oct 30, 2017
891
The funniest thing people say is that MS fixed the hardware problem with the xbox one x. making another $500 system does not fix the problem for 30+ million inferior xbox ones that are out there. People really need to stop saying that. The xbox one x is a premium product and is not the main product for the xbox line. its not even 10% of the xbox user base. Till this day xbox one will always have the most inferior system out there, shipping the xbox one x doesn't just remove that.
 
Oct 28, 2017
5,591
When this guy says the xbox has a problem he's implying that xbox has so little sales momentum it will never catch up with Sony and it will be over taken by Nintendo.


MS market share shrinking from 30% down to 20% in 2 years would be disastrous.


MS though has one thing indirectly going for it that could bear fruit this year.


The gpu price inflation might force people to buy an xbox because it would be a cost effective alternative for cutting edge graphics.

But we won't know for sure until the middle of this year. By then it will be confirmed if nvidia is releasing a new series of cards and if they implement measures to ensure gamers are more likely to buy them over miners.
 
Nov 24, 2017
478
Ehh, MS brought a lot of the problems they are facing on themselves but I think at this point the core/ERA style gamer's ambivalence has turned a bit toxic and whatever MS do they will be crucified, they could buy a publisher and take shit for it, they could get out of the hardware business and they'd take shit for it, they could develop more studios then take shit for how long it'll take those studio's to get a game out. Hell they took shit for making all first party titles cross compatible with PC, and that can only be a universally good move for the consumer.

They have had a pretty shitty 18 month slump with a sparse first party lineup and a few notable cancellations but that 18 months still included Forza Horizon 3. Sony did a fuck of a lot worse at the beginning of the gen with a long ass period in which the most notable game was Infamous. So it cant just be the no games narrative.

Also everything being equal that narrative should change this year with the release of Sea of Thieves and Crackdown 3 (hell it'll be at least as good as Infamous) but only if the gaming press and the enthusiast community actually give a fuck, actually me being the cynic I am I think Sea of Thieves could be a goddamned masterpiece and a lot of people still wont bother with it because its an MS game.

On a completely different note, If they were going to buy someone specifically for exclusives I hope its Bethesda, apparently they are looking to be purchased. They seem like a good fit for the xbox crowd, I don't think there would be too many shits given by many of the PS4 gamers. There is no PS nostalgia there since they were primarily PC developers back in the day and the IP they have picked up has usually been very western. There are no licensing issues and their big hitters will beget hardware sales.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
5,806
Kitchener, ON
I think they're pretty much fucked. Their first party is weak, The XBOX just came out, and for five hundred dollars. Sony is going to release a PS5 for four hundred dollars which is massively better holiday '20, and MS can't ship a next-gen system any where near that soon without burning the X owners.

Valve would never sell to anyone, let alone MS. MS buying EA makes no sense to me, as all the Sports licenses require multiplatform releases.

They're going to get slaughtered.
At least Minecraft will continue to bring in easy revenue. So they've got that going for them.
 
Oct 28, 2017
3,043
If Game Pass really takes off they could sell XBO-2 with a perk of having free online. But that's just the beginning of my fantasy scenario of companies realising that online fees scare away more revenue than they bring in.
This is exactly what I said they would be doing. I believe at the beginning of next Gen they get rid of the multiplayer paywall. They'll have GamePass that would have been gaining their exclusives over the next 3 years (that a good number of people haven't played) and day one you'll have Xbox V exclusives, all for $10 + system (which I do think will be $399-$499). Lowering that bar of entry will be an easier sell as long as they have the games. Each of their exclusives having an Enhanced version for the next console will also help (since they have PC versions already, upgrading wouldn't be too difficult). Let's say they release at the same time and Sony doesn't have a GamePass and assume (I know, lots of assumptions) they come out $399 each.

Xbox 5= $399 + $10 (100s of games and all launch day exclusives)
PS5 = $399 + $60 (PS+) + $60 (game)

Even if they did keep XBLG (though I don't think they will), it would still be cheaper on day one to play games. That's why they are setting up GamePass now with their exclusives. Grow it to set it up for the next generation and on launch, have big exclusives (Fable) that will showcase the new system. They are clearly doing that but I still think that they will get rid of the multiplayer paywall.

This is MS's plan. This generation is lost but it's one battle of many. Sony needs to have an equivalent by the time the next generation begins and I'm sure they are looking very closely to it.
 
Oct 28, 2017
2,265
The Xbox brand just doesn't have anything exciting. That's the problem and it's not solely exclusives.

No doubt the PlayStation Brand has excitement thanks to it's exclusives. As does the Switch, but it's not like Xbox dosen't have exclusives. It's just Gears and Halo are so tired and past the cultural phenom that they use to be. They aren't pushed as significant single player experiences either so they miss the spotlite that Sony exclusives gain. They also haven't caught the e-sports crowd. Gears 4 was safe and Halo has doubled down on being well Halo and it's not catching fire like it use to. Doubling down on your backstory and lore is kind of a double edged sword. Sure you keep your old fans "happy", but you run the risk of not appealing to new people which is what Halo 4 and 5 have done. Gears was just a cookie cutter sequel. Boring. These big games needed new directions. They did nothing to help the Xbox brand feel exciting.

PUG could have helped and no doubt has somewhat, but sadly Fortnite kind of has hurt that game's spotlight on consoles.

New IPs or resurgence of loved ips could have helped, but MS has been terrible at that. None of their games have been in line with trends. Sony gets away with these movie games like Uncharted. Sure, but people praise it because it's uniquely a video game. Quantum Break was a great game, but at this point in time no one gives a fuck that you made live action scenes when we can digitize actors. Such a misguided project.

Crackdown 3 is a constant question if it's canceled, not the constant hype that it will bring the series back to the heights of one.

Sea of Thieves could be a good game, but we had our NMS already. It feels a little late and hardly as exciting.

Things like BC are nice, but honestly BC is irrelevant. You speak to the choir with that. Old things don't really get people buzzing about the future of your brand.

You're PC initiatives while great for the consumer also make the consumer think more about the PC and not about the xbox.

The xbox brand just lacks something.
Not sure about much of this posy, but sea of thieves seems a lot more excitingthan NMS did and is getting more prerelease praise for sure.
 

Quakeguy

Banned
Member
Feb 3, 2018
938
I am pretty sure the X is the last console we will see from MS. They have ran out of gas. No passion. No innovation.
If they release something after that, it will more or less just be a Windows 10 box with the windows store.

I would not say no to MS being replaced by Sega.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
1,115
FloRida
This is exactly what I said they would be doing. I believe at the beginning of next Gen they get rid of the multiplayer paywall. They'll have GamePass that would have been gaining their exclusives over the next 3 years (that a good number of people haven't played) and day one you'll have Xbox V exclusives, all for $10 + system (which I do think will be $399-$499). Lowering that bar of entry will be an easier sell as long as they have the games. Each of their exclusives having an Enhanced version for the next console will also help (since they have PC versions already, upgrading wouldn't be too difficult). Let's say they release at the same time and Sony doesn't have a GamePass and assume (I know, lots of assumptions) they come out $399 each.

Xbox 5= $399 + $10 (100s of games and all launch day exclusives)
PS5 = $399 + $60 (PS+) + $60 (game)

Even if they did keep XBLG (though I don't think they will), it would still be cheaper on day one to play games. That's why they are setting up GamePass now with their exclusives. Grow it to set it up for the next generation and on launch, have big exclusives (Fable) that will showcase the new system. They are clearly doing that but I still think that they will get rid of the multiplayer paywall.

This is MS's plan. This generation is lost but it's one battle of many. Sony needs to have an equivalent by the time the next generation begins and I'm sure they are looking very closely to it.
get rid of live, live peeps are now spending $120 per year instead of $60, but you get hundreds of games plus day one first party for $60 more. so you save money but MS gets a steady revenue. where the competitor, one 1st party and PSN network is $120, per year. I love it.
 
Jan 23, 2018
827
Eh, Xbox is not going away anytime soon. This generation reminds me of the PS2/Xbox/GC one, whereas Sony was the dominant company by far, the other two were doing pretty well. Would be nice to have the same level of Xbox exclusives as back then though.

Not sure about much of this posy, but sea of thieves seems a lot more excitingthan NMS did and is getting more prerelease praise for sure.
Seems like SoT is the opposite of NMS: When it was first revealed at E3, there was a mixed reaction. No-one really knew what the game was about and people almost dismissed it straight away. When the betas came around, there was a lot more buzz and positive reactions in the lead-up to release. Unlike NMS, where hype levels raised the roof, turning into disappointment once the streamers/YouTubers got their hands on the game just before it came out.