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Microsoft has a problem with Xbox that it can't buy its way out of..

Musubi

Musubi

Unshakable Resolve - Prophet of Truth
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Oct 25, 2017
23,611
I honestly don't know where Microsoft goes from here with the Xbox brand they seem to have a much different vision of the future than Nintendo or Sony. They seem to really want to make the Xbox brand a platform in of itself rather than a linear progression of slightly better hardware. I guess we'll see how that works out for em'...
 
astroglide

astroglide

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Oct 29, 2017
473
also ms buying anyone is a good move for them big or small. Valve makes more sense to me due to pc based
 
StuBurns

StuBurns

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Nov 12, 2017
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Shpeshal Ed said:
The X is an upgrade. Like the Pro. I don't see how Microsoft would be "burning" One X owners after 3 years and Sony somehow not burning Pro owners after 4? Does the extra year really make that much of a difference? I'd think not given that...you know, the One X is an Xbox One. Which by 2020 will be a 7 year old console.
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It's true, it's one year, but it's also a hundred dollars. It's more a question of how large the technical gulf will be between the systems. The Pro would be four years old, and the same price. The X would be three years old and a hundred dollars more. The technological gulf would be substantially smaller.
Shpeshal Ed said:
Xbox 5 will 100% be out by 2020. You can bank on that.
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I don't believe it will at all, but we'll see. I think that's a worse idea than waiting an extra year or two and making the upgrade much bigger.
 

Deleted member 36493

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Why didn't they just say Xbox One has sold between 0 and a billion units? That would've been a better range
 
Shpeshal Nick

Shpeshal Nick

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StuBurns said:
It's true, it's one year, but it's also a hundred dollars. It's more a question of how large the technical gulf will be between the systems. The Pro would be four years old, and the same price. The X would be three years old and a hundred dollars more. The technological gulf would be substantially smaller.

I don't believe it will at all, but we'll see. I think that's a worse idea than waiting an extra year or two and making the upgrade much bigger.
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I don't see Microsoft going $499 again at launch unless they somehow know they have a substantial power differential, which I also don't see Microsoft every allowing to happen again (being weaker). The Xbox One went against the grain of normally having a very powerful or the most powerful console and it contributed to costing them the generation dearly. Current Xbox team within Microsoft at least on the surface, appears to be a team that's realised it's mistakes and is taking steps to fixing them long term.

Anyone expecting a turnaround this generation should probably switch out of "console wars" mode. This is business. Microsoft is currently putting the foundations in place for the platform's future, in particular to launch next gen strongly while also maximising the revenue from the current install base. While the Xbox hardware is "only" at around 40 million, the division itself is making pretty good money given the install base size. They'll sit that out until they're ready for their next console which I expect will go back to being a loss leader in order to try and get back to where they were with the 360.
 
2Blackcats

2Blackcats

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Oct 26, 2017
16,041
PositiveGamer said:
One of the biggest complains is how Xbox has no exclusives because the games are also in PC.

This is however, the new directive by MS. By building a connected eco system will expand its user base and longevity of many GAAS games.

Many don't seem to understand this and rather Xbox just do Xbox games like before. MS themselves have done the research and they know that those gaming on PC won't affect the Xbox sales. Maybe a few here and there??

I personally I have a great PC and I still choose to game on my Xbox.
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I think it's great that they put there games on pc too but I think in the public's mind there's a big difference between having some of your games on PC and having them all there.
 
astroglide

astroglide

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Oct 29, 2017
473
I have a question for everyone if It were true and MS did buy valve or EA do you think sony would respond by buying a big publisher themselves?
 
jroc74

jroc74

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Oct 27, 2017
28,985
TehPotentialz said:
The funny thing is that E3 2013 was freaking awesome for MS. It was literally all games, most of which were exclusive. That's what people want, isn't it? What you're thinking about was the XB1 reveal a few weeks earlier at a separate event, which is a whole other problem - people are still angry at them for things they didn't do, weren't going to do, and that they're remembering wrong.
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Agree that it was the initial reveal that ppl mean.

Disagree with the bolded. They were definitely going to do the things ppl were upset about.

You saw it when they did the 180 on the policies. Kinect mandatory, then it's not. Always online, then you couldn't even play a game if it needed an update. To this day you have to be off line to have a better install process.

I tried to watch a DVD last month and was sent to the Microsoft store. Didn't have internet so that was a no go. I need to test if the PS4 will just play a DVD without needing to go to the store.

Why do you think the better parts of the orig policies are showing up now...because it was part of their orig plans.
 
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EasyCompany

EasyCompany

Member
Jan 28, 2018
346
There's a lot of ink spilled about "The Death of Xbox" these days, but I feel like it's a year premature.

If 2018 is another year like 2017 in the first-party front, then sure, prognosticate Microsoft getting out of the console business. It's just as easy to see Sea of Thieves and another game (Forza Horizon 4 or Crackdown 3 perhaps) being big hits this year, and all these same writers churning articles like "With Gamepass and exclusives, 2018 was the year Microsoft turned it around."
 
Phil32

Phil32

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Oct 28, 2017
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This was the most popular article for the day on N4G. Sort of says enough about the article if N4G's users are interested in it.
 
BioDigital Jazzman

BioDigital Jazzman

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2Blackcats said:
I think it's great that they put there games on pc too but I think in the public's mind there's a big difference between having some of your games on PC and having them all there.
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If the public wants to buy 10 million copies of Forza on PC, I don't think MS is gonna care. This is all in the heads of commentators and not MS. As Phil has said, they've found his loophole
 
2Blackcats

2Blackcats

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Oct 26, 2017
16,041
BioDigital Jazzman said:
If the public wants to buy 10 million copies of Forza on PC, I don't think MS is gonna care. This is all in the heads of commentators and not MS. As Phil has said, they've found his loophole
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I think the Microsoft want everyone on PC argument only holds water if Microsoft are getting a significant % of money being spent on PC gaming, which they're not.
 
Iwao

Iwao

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Oct 25, 2017
11,775
THEVOID said:
And? Don't get your point here?

Also, gotta link on the PS5 coming 2020 and price?
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There are actually more rumours that talk of 2019, so 2020 not only sounds realistic, but it's later than rumours suggest.

$399 is the mass market price that has proven to work, and even with the mid-gen hardware it's what they went for. it's pretty clear they're gonna go for the same number with PS5.
 
bear force one

bear force one

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Oct 26, 2017
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Worldwide xbox is destined for a 3rd place slot going forward unless Sony and Nintendo crash and burn. There's not a lot that's going to shift the brand outside of the US and UK.
 
Dr. Caroll

Dr. Caroll

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Oct 27, 2017
8,111
2Blackcats said:
I think the Microsoft want everyone on PC argument only holds water if Microsoft are getting a significant % of money being spent on PC gaming, which they're not.
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They will when people are paying 10 bucks a month for Game Pass so they can play Sea of Thieves. MS are transitioning to a service company. Windows is a service now. (With a zillion OSes all called Windows 10.) Office is a service. They're trying to eliminate the traditional gaming model.
 
Wrath Of Exodust

Wrath Of Exodust

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Oct 27, 2017
720
Shpeshal Ed said:
They're lumped with the negativity for the rest of this gen. It's just how it is. They could release 73 brand new IPs over the next 2 years and there'd be articles about how those aren't for that journalist or how they're nto going to sell or something like that.
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Lol no. If MS releases a lot of new IP's in two years that'll fix the two largest issues people have with them. That's pretty much how Sony bounced back with the PS3. The thing is MS is a lot more interested in hardware and new platforms to deliver games when all people really want is games. That's really the only thing they need to fix at the moment.
 
StuBurns

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Iwao said:
There are actually more rumours that talk of 2019, so 2020 not only sounds realistic, but it's later than rumours suggest.

$399 is a price that has proven to work for Sony, and it's pretty clear that's what they're gonna go for.
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I don't believe '19, it's true that Sony have kind of indicated it, multiple times was the Pro referred to as 'mid-life' or 'half way through' or whatever, so people take that to mean it's six years from PS4 to 5, meaning November '19, but their announced software says otherwise. Their teams just aren't going to have unannounced games ready that soon.
 
Trago

Trago

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Oct 25, 2017
3,600
PositiveGamer said:
One of the biggest complains is how Xbox has no exclusives because the games are also in PC.

This is however, the new directive by MS. By building a connected eco system will expand its user base and longevity of many GAAS games.

Many don't seem to understand this and rather Xbox just do Xbox games like before. MS themselves have done the research and they know that those gaming on PC won't affect the Xbox sales. Maybe a few here and there??

I personally I have a great PC and I still choose to game on my Xbox.
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I still don't get why this point is being leveled at Microsoft. Their consoles sales haven't tanked since they started Play Anywhere, and the most people who aren't into PC gaming still stick with console regardless.
 
Jimmy Wrong

Jimmy Wrong

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Nov 20, 2017
321
They need to get some vision behind Xbox again. Xbox OG was a totally unique beast with strong multiplatforms AND weird eclectic exclusives (in part because of FROMSOFT and inheriting most of the Dreamcast's innovating spirit and successor games). Halo was obviously a sales beast that ripped to play but it was only part of a vision by people who loved the form and wanted to expand it.

Hardware shit aside the 360 was also a total beast with a weird and cool exclusive for every Gears Of War taking a more direct approach to mainstream appeal. XBLA had some of the coolest exclusives ever! Again, it felt like the product of people who wanted to nurture the form.

I feel like all those people left for the One - an ugly chunk of set top box that sucked technically (a brand first!) had no weird cult games of note (I can play a successor to Panzer Dragoon with a Kinnect, I guess?). Titanfall was a proof of concept, they lost the chance to get the definitive version of the latest Bungie shooter, and while I'd like more Halo, 343's version is humourless and inelegant fan fiction.

The only reason I want one is to play 360 games I own digitally with better frame rate, lol. All the weird cult games seem to come to PS4, PS4 has the FGC pretty much wrapped up, PS4 got the best multiplats for most of it's life and therefore has the strongest online community.

The 4th generation Xbox can't just be a collection of high level specs reeled off by a stiff with a suit and too many teeth every E3. It has to be the most powerful hardware married with a vision and eccentricity that unites casuals, hardcore and cult gamers under one banner again. J Allard's cyberpunk Michael Stipe act and the support of Jeff Minter was always so important for me - it told me things would never be boring or excessively corporate. Xbox has felt soulless since Kinnect.

I feel like now Japan's recovering as a development area Nintendo and Sony will keep crushing it - unless they totally fuck up, which has happened before. But they have to fuck up in sync.

TBH since Microsoft almost ended Platinum I've considered them toxic and I just want them to move on - which sucks, because my OG and my 360 were magical as hell. I've started planning to mod my OG so I can remember the old times.
 

Deleted member 25600

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User Warned: Driveby posts like this don't contribute to the thread
Have they tried using the Infinite Power of the Cloud?
 

Ole No Bones

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Xbox platform has a lot of upsides right now.

The platform is forward thinking and consumer friendly including things like Backwards Compatability and Gamepass which is now a great value.

The hardware is now fantastic with a small footprint and a lot of power.

XBL has a ton of features and is for the most part very stable.

Only 1 problem... It's a doozy and it can't be solved over night. Games. Its the games stupid. It's the worst problem a gaming platform can have and it's the only reason MS has such a lack of respect from the community at large. Their problem with games is both quality and quantity. They dont have enough titles and the ones they do aren't special like they used to be. Halo (even though Halo 5 is an excellent mp experience) just doesn't feel exciting like it once was. Gears kind of has a "been there" "done that" feeling for me even though Gears 4 was very polished and a perfectly ok game. It may be natural for these franchises to be less important with time but Xbox never had the next big thing to fill in the gaps. Certain moves really didn't instill confidence from the beginning of the generation. Black Tusk was supposed to be the "next big thing" studio and then they became the gears studio, lionhead closed when the impression was that MS didn't have enough studios to begin with, press play, twisted pixel, Recore had a ton of potential but should have been a AAA endeavor, Scalebound cancelled, etc etc..

The problem is not insurmountable but it will take time, money, and follow through. They need more studios, they need external partners and they need to see it through. It's up to MS whether they want to do it or not but it's time to put up or shut up IMO.
 
chromatic9

chromatic9

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Oct 25, 2017
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360 took 5 years to reach 50 million

XBO is not 10 million units better than the 360.

I'd say about 38/40 million. XBO was tracking 2 to 1 for a long time and probably still around that and will be close to 50 million by Jan 2019.

Whether it's a few million below 360 when aligned or very close I'd say it's doing well enough at least in terms of units.
 

kappa_krey

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Jan 24, 2018
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StuBurns said:
I think they're pretty much fucked. Their first party is weak, The XBOX just came out, and for five hundred dollars. Sony is going to release a PS5 for four hundred dollars which is massively better holiday '20, and MS can't ship a next-gen system any where near that soon without burning the X owners.

Valve would never sell to anyone, let alone MS. MS buying EA makes no sense to me, as all the Sports licenses require multiplatform releases.

They're going to get slaughtered.
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A little over-dramatic and pedantic, aren't we? Anyone thinking PS5 is going to be some monster of a system w/ 4x XBO-X GPU compute is in for a nasty surprise. Beyond that, the X clearly serves a premium slice of a niche market; Microsoft hasn't positioned it any more beyond a mid-gen refresh as Sony has the PS4 Pro. It has no exclusives of its own, just makes XBO games a little prettier. They can release an XBO-2 holiday 2020 with zero issues, because the total number of X owners to XBO/S owners is always going to be paltry, and the X isn't offering its own unique gaming content the way other add-ons like the 32X did.

If anything I think Sony needs to be very concerned about Game Pass; it's a very forward-thinking initiative and if MS gets the sort of 3rd party portfolio support they seek, it could really do some damage to PS5. Why pay $60 retail + $30 for Season Passes or DLC for each individual game when you can pay a flat rate monthly for all that platform's games, running natively off your system vs. an imperfect streaming solution? Right now Game Pass is still in its early stages but if there are reasons for rumors like the EA buyout going around, it would be for bolstering things like Game Pass and to truly make it a Netflix of gaming.

I feel Game Pass is going to play a very crucial role w/ XBO-2, if they can work out the behind-the-scenes details first.
 
Shpeshal Nick

Shpeshal Nick

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JustP_Gaming said:
How can the estimates be 35 Million, everybody always says 30-35million I will bet anything that it is much higher then everyone thinks.
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Just reinforces the point in the OP about negativity around Xbox.

It's been "30-35 million" since like 2015. Basically, Microsoft hasn't sold a console since 2015 apparently. It would comfortably be at 40 million by now. All reports for the longest time have had Sony outselling them at just under 2:1. With Sony being within a hair of 80 million by now, slightly over 40 million is about right.
 

Deleted member 9317

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"Microsoft has a problem with Xbox that it can't buy its way out of.."

*Recommends buying EA and Valve*

lol article, I don't think Microsoft is in an uphill battle anymore. The amount of value they're providing with X1X is insane, and would divert any casual buyer towards it.
 
StuBurns

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kappa_krey said:
A little over-dramatic and pedantic, aren't we? Anyone thinking PS5 is going to be some monster of a system w/ 4x XBO-X GPU compute is in for a nasty surprise.
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That is my entire point, though. It won't. But more importantly, an Xbox Two that launches in '20 for 400 dollars sure as shit isn't going to be some huge improvement over the X. The difference between the Pro to the PS5 and the X to the XBT should be at worst equal, and that's not feasible without charging a lot more than Sony, or releasing a lot later than Sony. They can do neither.

However, that's my perspective that X owners would want a substantial technical upgrade, similar to the one they've just had. If they don't care about that, then I guess it doesn't matter. We shall see.
 
ULTROS!

ULTROS!

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Oct 25, 2017
1,474
Speevy said:
People were predicting Sony and Nintendo's doom within the last several years and that never happened. MS will be fine.
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Most of people's predictions have come a long way and are mostly inaccurate for some reason, maybe because their predictions are based on what's happening now.

Remember back in GAF when people predicted that this gen will be Wii U > Xbox 720 > PS4 back in 2012?
 
Aktlys

Aktlys

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Oct 27, 2017
1,535
Microsoft has a first party problem.
Too many shooters that also are in direct competition with their partners like EA and Activision.
They certainly need to broaden their portfolio with family games and other types of games that their partners aren't doing.

Like, Halo Wars is a great type of game they should be doing... since almost none of their party does RTS on consoles and it has great production value.
 
ZhugeEX

ZhugeEX

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Oct 24, 2017
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janusfilmsfan said:
Is the Xbox one not gonna outsell the 360?
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Probably not. But then again this entire console generation is going to see less consoles sold than last gen. Despite that, gamers are buying more games than ever, they're subscribing to more services than ever, they're buying more add on content than ever. In Microsoft's case they're expanding the audience via PC and multiplatform games like Minecraft.

Console hardware sales are still important, but not nearly as important as they were.
 

Jraphics Horse

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Oct 26, 2017
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kappa_krey said:
I feel Game Pass is going to play a very crucial role w/ XBO-2, if they can work out the behind-the-scenes details first.
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If Game Pass really takes off they could sell XBO-2 with a perk of having free online. But that's just the beginning of my fantasy scenario of companies realising that online fees scare away more revenue than they bring in.
 
MarsMayflower

MarsMayflower

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Xbox is profitable and sustainable. All that matters to MS. Console wars are over. Everyone wins.
 
Crayon

Crayon

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That was kind of a dumb article.
This is wrong, I think:
Even the lowest-end model of Xbox One supports HDR, a high-end video technology that makes games look better on TVs that support.
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The answers include buying ea and valve Wich was some nothing rumor from last week. The suggest leaving the console business. Which is fine but doesnt exactly fix the presumed problem of not selling enough consoles. And they don't even get at the real problems.
 
GameAddict411

GameAddict411

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Oct 26, 2017
8,509
The problem with first party support became apparent well before the Xbox one came out. But x360 was enjoying a comfortable lead at the time, and it basically rode the wave since launch. But considering how they basically self nuked Xbox one launch, they had no chance to recover. And recovering is also going to be very difficult and expensive. Honestly, if they don't recover next gen I could easily see Ms cutting the cord to Xbox, or doing a spin off of the brand.
 
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