Microsoft has made a number of pro consumer moves since the start of the generation

Oct 28, 2017
2,776
I think the best thing is their store and account management, the day Sony makes their store global and region change availability to your account is the day I will cry like a little girl

And the way they handled BC is the second best thing
 

Dave.

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,899
Thank Terry Myerson more like.

I've been reliably informed he was the real big boss in the background during all of these "pro consumer" 180s, pulling all the strings and dishing out orders, while Phil was pretty much helpless to change anything and just had to follow orders. Only very recently has Phil been given any real capabilities, so it remains to be seen how things will change now that Terry is no longer around to promote the consumer's best interest...

Maybe I misunderstood some posts elsewhere on the forum.
 

Urthor

Member
Oct 28, 2017
158
Microsoft introducing a number of features that are good for its customers doesn't mean it's sworn off anti-consumer decisions forever, the past is no indicator of the business decisions Microsoft makes now and in the future.

Microsoft implementing decisions like cross play and backwards compatibility weren't done out of compassion. Microsoft was behind Sony in the exclusives department, writes a relatively simple first party emulator for its Powerpc console architecture, software that probably has far lower investment cost than a full first party game, and implements it. Microsoft has an install base significantly behind Sony's, suddenly starts supporting cross-play.

Those decisions aren't true sacrifices, they're trade offs that make sense for the business in the context of this console generation.

There's no indication that for example, next console generation, they won't drop backward compatibility and not have it as any kind of day 1 feature if, for example, Microsoft wins the install base war. There's no wider philosophy of promising to deliver a higher level of customer service to consumers strategically, full backward compatibility forever by promising to straight port their x86 emulator to all future x86 console platforms and maintain their current level of backward compatibility so you don't need to buy a new boxed copy of a previous generation's game.

They are just a number of tactical decisions Microsoft made for this console cycle.

Not to mention, they're still charging gamers an incredible amount for online play via Xbox Live, far in excess of the underlying cost to operate the Xbox Live platform. Never forget that business model, it's both delivered rivers of gold to Microsoft and raised the total cost of ownership of a console over the maybe 8 years consumers wait between console purchases dramatically above what it used to be. And when the cost of maintaining and running gaming servers is a fraction of what it was 20 years ago, Xbox Live is still sold at the same price and gating multiplayer.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,038
Can't deny that they haven't been but I don't find them to be more pro-consumer. None of them are, I think y'all just choose what's the bigger poison for you...but they all are anti-consumer.

However in comparison to Sony, I don't think (Sony) has been any less. Sony hasn't changed the system I bought from day one, and they haven't taken away much. Sure they haven't added the features of their competition, but they haven't dialed back the goals and promises they set forward so far with the PS4.

At the end of the day, they deserve praise for what they have done so far...but they aren't better than anyone else in the industry who does and say the right thing to etch out their own Lane in the market. Money still runs everything, whether it's good or not.
 

gueras

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
746
User Warned: Threadwhining
Everyday same topic... Sony is anti consumer. Ms is pro consumer. Why we need a new topic about that everyday after e3?
 

AudioEppa

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
3,340
User Warned: Threadwhining
Everyday same topic... Sony is anti consumer. Ms is pro consumer. Why we need a new topic about that everyday after e3?
In no way am I trying to disrespect this websites rules. But I agree with this. I have a idea on why this is, but I’ll not post it and let this topic stay focused on whatever it’s about.
 

gueras

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
746
In no way am I trying to disrespect this websites rules. But I agree with this. I have a idea on why this is, but I’ll not post it and let this topic stay focused on whatever it’s about.
I received a warning to post a opinion. I have no idea what is going on with the site.

I didn't disrespect anyone and said the truth.
 

doragon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
400
Thank Terry Myerson more like.

I've been reliably informed he was the real big boss in the background during all of these "pro consumer" 180s, pulling all the strings and dishing out orders, while Phil was pretty much helpless to change anything and just had to follow orders. Only very recently has Phil been given any real capabilities, so it remains to be seen how things will change now that Terry is no longer around to promote the consumer's best interest...

Maybe I misunderstood some posts elsewhere on the forum.
...Interesting.

Just found out he's leaving Microsoft this year, too. I guess we'll eventually see how much of a force of good he was for their gaming division.

Or for everything he was involved with, for that matter... This guy was big!
 

Tharp

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,243
...Interesting.

Just found out he's leaving Microsoft this year, too. I guess we'll eventually see how much of a force of good he was for their gaming division.

Or for everything he was involved with, for that matter... This guy was big!
The way Phil Spencer made it sound in the Giant Bomb interview, Terry was the big blockade for Xbox being able to spend money and build out their first party portfolio. Next gen will be super interesting at the least, and chances are it's going to be awesome for people who play games.
 

Shrennin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,075
Thank Terry Myerson more like.

I've been reliably informed he was the real big boss in the background during all of these "pro consumer" 180s, pulling all the strings and dishing out orders, while Phil was pretty much helpless to change anything and just had to follow orders. Only very recently has Phil been given any real capabilities, so it remains to be seen how things will change now that Terry is no longer around to promote the consumer's best interest...

Maybe I misunderstood some posts elsewhere on the forum.
I think the idea was that Phil Spencer was leading change with the pro consumer initiatives but Terry was a blockade with actual funding which is why these studio acquisitions just happened. Now that Spencer has the freedom to use the budget in the way he sees fit, we're starting to see more of an initiative with Microsoft first party.
 

antispin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
944
A couple of things I'd like to see added to the list: (1) gamepass unlocks the highest tier of first-party titles, (2) kb/m support, and (3) drop the Gold requirement for F2P titles.
 

ghostcrew

Grabbed by the Ghosties
Moderator
Oct 27, 2017
11,474
A couple of things I'd like to see added to the list: (1) gamepass unlocks the highest tier of first-party titles, (2) kb/m support, and (3) drop the Gold requirement for F2P titles.
I think two of those of definite possibles (they’ve talked about KB&M support haven’t they? I think so!) but I doubt they’re gonna move the highest tier 1P games into Game Pass.

But if you’d asked me a year ago I would’ve say there’s no chance that they’d put their 1P games in Game Pass day and date anyway. So what do I know.
 

Watership

Member
Oct 27, 2017
986
It's hilarious how not providing VR is suddenly fully added to the "list wars", both for and against.
 

khamakazee

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,937
Well if Microsoft can gain some momentum going into next gen and provide strong competition I think that will help everyone overall.
 

OrdinaryPrime

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
11,042
Having a contract with ICE makes my eyes roll whenever anyone paints Microsoft as this benevolent organization.
 

impact

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
5,380
Tampa
To me they're way more pro consumer than Sony is but I don't really see a huge reason to buy their console since I have a PC. They support PC well enough that it loses them console sales imo. I even own an XB1 Elite and just use it for PC/PS4. Love what they're doing with 4K BC but the X enhanced library isn't big enough to justify the console purchase yet.
 

_id

Banned
Apr 18, 2018
212
Definitely a complete 180 from the start of the gen. I love what they are doing with cross play and releasing the one x. Hopefully this momentum will continue into next gen.
 

Oticon

Member
Oct 30, 2017
819
When companies get the hubris punched out of them by consumer choice, this is what we get. I am glad with the way Microsoft is coming along especially as someone who has been a PC gamer for a long time. I like how they are taking the platform as an extension of the Xbox brand as opposed to viewing PC gaming as a competitor.
 

_id

Banned
Apr 18, 2018
212
Having a contract with ICE makes my eyes roll whenever anyone paints Microsoft as this benevolent organization.
Um I’m pretty sure MS came out and said they don’t support separating families and that the contract is purely just for services. No way MS could have predicted the shit show that’s happening with ICE.
 

francium87

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,715
since they introduced Xbox Playanywhere (kind of disappointed they haven't pushed this harder), I have never even thought of getting their 1st party games on disc, and I'm more inclined to get indies on XPA over other versions

I have a pc at home that sometimes runs work stuff, so cross buy and cross save has been really handy.
 

Adam802

Banned
Feb 12, 2018
660
MS has actually been very pro consumer this gen. Other than the initial xb1 policies (which were reversed before the console even launched), I really dont know of any anti-consumer things MS has actually done this gen. I guess you could count the Tomb Raider timed exclusivity thing but even then, I really see MS and Xbox in a resurgence. Next gen is gonna be sweet.
 

OrdinaryPrime

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
11,042
Um I’m pretty sure MS came out and said they don’t support separating families and that the contract is purely just for services. No way MS could have predicted the shit show that’s happening with ICE.
Um...they're still making money helping to jail brown kids. See I can be condescending too.

And ICE has always been garbage. They're just emboldened now.
 

Kage Maru

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,792
No doubt they made horrible decisions near launch and had to make these moves to build up any good will. I just don't understand the point in bringing up and holding onto what Mattrick did when they are under new management now. IMO they should be judged based on what Spencer has done, not by the person he had to answer to. He's made mistakes as well, but he seems to be willing to learn and grow the division. The changes made in the last 8 or so months seem to be the most positive yet for the division, so I hope they don't squander this opportunity to continue down the right path.
 

TehPotentialz

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
2,362
They're still following through on their UWP nightmare which is the worst thing to happen to the entire PC platform in a very long time, not just gaming specific.
This is ridiculous. UWP is one of the best things to happen to the non-gaming PC world in modern PC history.

What is wrong with UWP from a non-gaming perspective?

Also I don't think their changes have been all because they're "losing" to PlayStation, I think they're more a sign of the change in leadership and direction of the entire company under Nadella. Nadella is a services guy, and you don't become the biggest service providers without being consumer friendly.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,402
It would seem that out of Sony and Microsoft, the "losing" console will make the best deals and actions.

The whole reason we have this strange PS4 policy of allowing cross-play with PC but not other consoles is that Microsoft used to be the bad one last gen. Portal 2 allowed cross-play between PS3 and PC, but not 360. Taking away an existing cross-play policy would be bad press so PC cross-play has stayed this gen, but when Microsoft opened up to cross-play Sony was already so far ahead they could say "no thanks, not other consoles".
 

OniBaka

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,244
Sydney
Yep, while I don't have one since I don't want to own more consoles. Their practices have been great, if they had the games then it would be perfect.

Very tempted to pick up XB1X just to play old games.
 

Prine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,961
Thank Terry Myerson more like.

I've been reliably informed he was the real big boss in the background during all of these "pro consumer" 180s, pulling all the strings and dishing out orders, while Phil was pretty much helpless to change anything and just had to follow orders. Only very recently has Phil been given any real capabilities, so it remains to be seen how things will change now that Terry is no longer around to promote the consumer's best interest...

Maybe I misunderstood some posts elsewhere on the forum.
Anonymous internet guy says....

Phil as soon as he got the big job bought & created new studios, expanded others, unleashed the adaptive controller, greenlighted Gamepass and unconventionally revealed new hardware is on the way, 7 months after the releasing the most powerful console ever made. MS bumped him up for a reason, sorry, the facts do not line up with your claim.

Terry was a blocker, Phil implied it himself just recently.
 

FairyEmpire

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,892
Embarassing how you can have daily threads about how amazing is a company or a game series, but make it about MS and you'll get called PR and such. Classy.

Microsoft did a lot of great moves these past few years. The combination of Game Pass, Play Anywhere, backwards compatibility, crossplay, refunds, etc. give my games more value, more functionality, and I risk less by buying them since I can refund and such. Too bad a lot of people can't appreciate pro-consumer moves that will probably become industry standards - not until said things appear on their system, that's when these things will suddenly be alright.
 

TehPotentialz

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
2,362
They are the only company charging a online fee for F2P games

You can play Fortnite for free right now on iOS, Android, Laptop, PC, Switch and PS4.

But in Xbox you need Gold subscription

That is one of the most anti consumer policies right now.
I wish people would still spreading this lie. F2P does not require Xbox Live Gold. Online play requires Xbox Live Gold. There are plenty of F2P games on Xbox that can be played without gold.
 

Remo Williams

Self-requested ban
Banned
Jan 13, 2018
4,769
It’s only a “paranoid fantasy” if you completely disregard the fact they they’ve already shown their hand and revealed their goals for the industry and their place in it. Some of y’all are convinced the intent has changed. All I’m doing is pointing at what they are doing and saying “hey this patchy hey are charging full steam ahead down leads to the same scenario that folks took s o much umbrage witha few years back.” If you think that’s paranoid then we have very different definitions of the word.
First of all, what was being proposed then was by no means the same thing that you are now saying is going to happen in the future (and some things that are indeed going to happen eventually, are going to happen because the whole industry is leaning in that direction). Furthermore, those plans have been dissected many times before, and even recently we've had another thread about them. I have no intention to discuss them in detail yet again, so I will just say that many valid arguments have been made both for and against various aspects of those plans. Their devious nature is yet another subjective interpretation, not an objective fact.

But let's for a second presume that they really did not have good intentions. Even then, over the past five years the whole leadership, and leadership structure of the company has changed. Microsoft and Xbox have both evolved in tangible, measurable ways. Their actions have changed, and the way they approach business and competition has changed. That's a provable fact. All of that being just a front for the same old villainous machinations is an interpretation. And yes, it's paranoid.

So in one corner you have Sony, who are actually doing things that are not positive for consumers and this industry as a whole, but you are willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, and come up with all sorts of excuses. In the other you have Microsoft who are actually carrying out and inspiring a lot of positive changes, but you're quick to brush that all aside because of your preconceived notions about them. Please take a step back, and try to look at it from a rational angle. That's madness.
 

Zool

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,330
The changed so much and are an example for the other two platform holders.
Too bad most people don't seem to care about MS.
 

Striferser

Member
Oct 28, 2017
797
Yes, but i want to see them doing their pro customer move when they're numero uno in console share. So wait and see i suppose.

Last gen, when Sony losong competition and want a cross play, microsoft be all like 'lol,no'
 

chobel

Attempting to circumvent ban with an alt-account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,493
Not only these moves are pro-consumer, they're also pro-business at the same time, which super rare. So kudos to MS.

About the last point ("they aren't trying to force Gearbox to cut PS4 out of the We Happy Few release"), I don't think it was up them.
 

KORNdog

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,749
this is what's necessary when you're lagging behind. they're just throwing everything at the wall and seeing what sticks. sony did the same thing last gen when they were behind too. the danger is assuming any of it is goodwill. it's not. they're just desperately trying to catch up in a race they'e already lost. might not be a great situation for the company doing it, but it's certainly great for consumers.

sadly it seems like the moment these console manufacturers are in a positions of power that requirement to appease the consumers diminishes because they're getting sales anyway. it's where MS was last gen when they were locking the likes of netflix behind their live subscriptions etc. or this gen with sony not wanting to mix with the other consoles.

if the situation reverses next gen and MS are market leaders i expect they'll get complacent again and sony will be doing the pro-consumer thing. it just seems to be how it works. the loser will always try harder
 

deadasdisco

Member
Jun 10, 2018
337
People are still referring back to the Don Mattrick Era. Satya became new CEO, and Phil Spencer had the job to basically save the gaming division. It's all positive changes towards the consumers as of late which is a good thing. Even tho its still a major corporation, looking for as much revenue as possible, its the best we are going to get tbh.
 

Bennibop

Member
Oct 30, 2017
969
For the half of the gen I would say no they were not consumer friendly, for the second half they have definitely improved but they had to so they are at least competitive in one aspect.
 

ethomaz

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,851
Santa Albertina
While these little details are all good what really are games... these are the first and more important pro-costumer feature of any video game.

And MS lacks that...

Can they fix it? Yeap sure... they are trying since first Xbox and the best shot was at half of the Xbox 360 life because the other half was just like XB1 delivery.

We can only hope the new acquisitions turns the table for Scarlet.

Dunno, I'd say holding your account and purchases (even if made on another platform) hostage is more anti consumer than a paywall for on online game, but that's just me
Well that is Epic doing it... no Sony... Epic had a lot of options to work in this situation but choose to block your account.
 

Zappy

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
3,738
Yep. Just drop live sub required for any online play and they'll be god tier. I mean I get why they won't do this, but still.

I don't agree with dropping the live sub requirement for some games though. Either go the whole hog or leave it as it is.
 

Chris.

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,768
Well that is Epic doing it... no Sony... Epic had a lot of options to work in this situation but choose to block your account.
I didn't even mention which company is doing it so not sure why so defensive.

Blocking someones account / purchases regardless of where it was originally purchased on is infinitely more anti consumer than a paywall for an online games. That's just a fact, regardless of what company is behind it. That's not to say the paywall is all fine and dandy but the Fortnite stuff is on another level of bullshit.