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Rodeo Clown

Member
Dec 14, 2017
1,241
Next year is poised to be the first year without a Forza title in some time, with Turn 10 still focusing on update FM7. Transitioning the mainline Motorsport titles into service titles with long lives is the best thing they can do. They can still push out their tweaks to the driving model, the feature set, the track and car lineups, but without having to sell people new $60 releases and also fit more seamlessly into Game Pass.
 

Deleted member 36493

User requested account closure
Member
Dec 19, 2017
4,982
I can get the argument against Forza Motorsport and Forza Horizon's biannual releases, but when it comes to Halo and Gears this generation has been kind of relaxed.

Halo 5 in 2015 and Halo Infinite in 2020 (?)
Gears 4 in 2016 and Gears 5 in 2019

At this point in the 360 era the 360 already had Gears 1, 2, Halo 3, ODST and was about to get Reach in 2010 and Gears 3 in 2011
I can't argue with that, but when I think of franchise fatigue I consider both how often the game releases, and what has released since that game. For example, as you've stated Halo 5 and Gears 4 released in 2015 and 2016 respectively, but what huge critically-acclaimed and high-quality releases has MS had since then? With the exception of Forza, there really hasn't been much. And in between now and the release of Halo Infinite and Gears 5, the landscape doesn't look like it will change all that much. And that's what I mean by Gears/Halo/Forza getting the "spotlight." Not that they're releasing too often, but just that they're the only big releases that MS has. Whereas for Sony, look at what has released since Uncharted 4 only 2 years ago in 2016:

Horizon: Zero Dawn
God of War
Spider-Man
Detroit: Become Human

And think about what will release before the next Uncharted.
 
Oct 27, 2017
720
Some of those are good games, not great games. I also do not know that Sony put in money to get Persona and Yakuza as exclusives (I haven't checked) and as such cannot credit them for their exclusivity. Someone somewhere might have more information.

The point he was trying to make wasn't that those games are masterpieces (although i'd certainly argue against the good but not great take on a few of them) it's that there has been a gluttony of good games these past few years that are simply not on Xbox. It's not just a first party issue.

I get it. This thread is for Xbox fans and this forum in particular can feel unwelcome to Xbox fans. I'm an Xbox fan too, bought the Xbone first mostly for *gasp* exclusives like Killer Instinct, Sunset Overdrive, Quantum Break and D4. Xbox has failed to build on those games aside from KI and has simply lost out on a lot of games at the same time. Simply handwaving a licensed Spider-Man game developed by a company that could have made sequel to a new fan favorite IP in SO by bringing up Crackdown 3, a game with troubled production that is more than likely to land with a whimper, is disingenuous.

I own all systems, and if someone asked me if they should get an Xbox One over PS4 the answer would simply be no. And that isn't because Sony is somehow amazing, it's because Microsoft absolutely dropped the ball software wise, the only aspect that really matters.

That said I am looking forward to what comes out of them now that they actually have studios. I don't even care for Ninja Theory but I always thought they had a solid visual team and it would be interesting to see what they do with a budget.

There's plenty of Xbox fans who are unsatisfied, it's not just drive by console wars. Trying to silence their complaints or feigning ignorance is not a good look to be honest.
 
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Oct 27, 2017
6,942
I can't argue with that, but when I think of franchise fatigue I consider both how often the game releases, and what has released since that game. For example, as you've stated Halo 5 and Gears 4 released in 2015 and 2016 respectively, but what huge critically-acclaimed and high-quality releases has MS had since then? With the exception of Forza, there really hasn't been much. And in between now and the release of Halo Infinite and Gears 5, the landscape doesn't look like it will change all that much. And that's what I mean by Gears/Halo/Forza getting the "spotlight." Not that they're releasing too often, but just that they're the only big releases that MS has. Whereas for Sony, look at what has released since Uncharted 4 only 2 years ago in 2016:

Horizon: Zero Dawn
God of War
Spider-Man
Detroit: Become Human

And think about what will release before the next Uncharted.
The thing is, I think your worries too much about critical acclaim. PUBG would r gotten destroyed yet 9 million people played it and it's one of the most played games on the system. Everybody hates sea of thieves except for the millions of people that play the game. The games that MS are targeting aren't going to be critical darlings or high forum chatter releases. Few multiplayer based games are. Like even titanfall 1 which I thought was a masterpiece wasn't a huge critical success
 

Splader

Member
Feb 12, 2018
5,063
I'm pretty close to platinuming Spiderman, and the more i play the more i want to give sunset overdrive another shot.

I have a feeling I'm going to enjoy it more this time around.
 

Kyussons

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,414
I agree they need additional titles on top of their existing beloved IPs. However - and this can't be said often enough - the competition would be happy to have established and beloved franchises like Gears, Halo or Forza.

The competition has a larger diversity within its portfolio. Microsoft has some guaranteed sellers in Halo, Gears & Forza but the overall sales of these series has gone down ( except for Forza Horizon ofc ) largely thanks to MS first party mismanagement.
 

Deleted member 36493

User requested account closure
Member
Dec 19, 2017
4,982
The thing is, I think your worries too much about critical acclaim. PUBG would r gotten destroyed yet 9 million people played it and it's one of the most played games on the system. Everybody hates sea of thieves except for the millions of people that play the game. The games that MS are targeting aren't going to be critical darlings or high forum chatter releases. Few multiplayer based games are. Like even titanfall 1 which I thought was a masterpiece wasn't a huge critical success
I want to play high-quality games like Gears/Halo/Forza, that aren't just Gears/Halo/Forza. That's my point.
 

Klobrille

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,360
Germany
The competition has a larger diversity within its portfolio. Microsoft has some guaranteed sellers in Halo, Gears & Forza but the overall sales of these series has gone down ( except for Forza Horizon ofc ) largely thanks to MS first party mismanagement.
True. Again though, I would counter-argue that every upcoming title for these three pillars probably will be the most successful games in these franchises, yet.

The only franchise where I saw a real mismanagement is Forza Motorsport by the way, which clearly suffered from too short dev windows. And even this is getting fixed by them right now (Turn10 focuses completely on FM7, with FM8 getting a longer dev time).
 

pswii60

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,673
The Milky Way
Look at how often Uncharted, God of War, or Gran Turismo get the spotlight for PlayStation -- once every several years.
Let's look at that.

Since 2007:

Uncharted Drake's Fortune
Uncharted 2
Uncharted 3
Uncharted 4
Uncharted Lost Legacy
(Nathan Drake Collection)

Since 2006:

Gears of War
Gears of War 2
Gears of War 3
Gears Judgement
Gears 4
(Gears of War Ultimate Edition)

To keep it fair I'll ignore Uncharted GA as it was Vita only. But yeah, you can see that there isn't any difference there.

And it's not like Microsoft hasn't tried to create big new franchises whether it's SO with Insomniac, Quantum Break with Remedy etc, but none of them have hit the mark and they simply haven't had the budget to take any bigger risks in recent years.

When you're running a gaming division with an extremely limited budget, obviously you're going to fall back on to existing successful IP to reduce the risk.

Also, the IP is irrelevant. Soon there will be no fewer than seven Mario games on Switch, and even more if you include spin-off characters like Toad and Donkey Kong. But few are complaining, because each of these games is interesting, unique or has fresh gameplay elements. It's what you do with the IP that can be the issue, rather than the IP itself. Just look at what Sony has done with God of War and basically reinvented it - few were complaining 'oh not more God of War'.

Microsoft has the ability to - and needs to - do this with Halo. And to be fair, it looks like exactly that is happening with Infinite. Forza 8 is getting more time in the oven. And Gears 5 looks to be a departure from the usual structure of the games.
 
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Bear and bird

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,596
For example, as you've stated Halo 5 and Gears 4 released in 2015 and 2016 respectively, but what huge critically-acclaimed and high-quality releases has MS had since then?.

Well, since you included Detroit in your list, then Quantum Break was released in early 2016. :p Overall I can't say I disagree with you regarding Microsoft's output the last two year though. It has been very disappointing to me as I thought that 2013-2016 had a bunch of fun and interesting 1st party games.

I just don't necessarily think that Halo, Gears or Forza was docked due to franchise fatigue.

If you look each of those three series' first entries this gen, each of them had issues that reviewers and fans criticised them for:
Forza Motorsport 5: Too little content
Halo 5: Disappointing campaign
Gears 4: Played it too safe

While it's too soon to say anything about Halo Infinite and Gears 5, Forza Motorsport clearly improved from 5 to 6 and 7 and the review scores got better as a result.
 

gremlinz1982

Member
Aug 11, 2018
5,331
The point he was trying to make wasn't that those games are masterpieces (although i'd certainly argue against the good but not great take on a few of them) it's that there hass been a gluttony of good games these past few years that are simply not on Xbox. It's not just a first party issue.

I get it. This thread is for Xbox fans and this forum in particular can feel unwelcome to Xbox fans. I'm an Xbox fan too, bought the Xbone first mostly for *gasp* exclusives like Killer Instinct, Sunset Overdrive, Quantum Break and D4. Xbox has failed to build on those games aside from KI and has simply lost out on a lot of games at the same time. Simply handwaving a licensed Spider-Man game developed by a company that could have made sequel to a new fan favorite IP in SO by bringing up Crackdown 3, a game with troubled production that is more than likely to land with a whimper, is disingenuous.

I own all systems, and if someone asked me if they should get an Xbox One over PS4 the answer would simply be no. And that isn't because Sony is somehow amazing, it's because Microsoft absolutely dropped the ball software wise, the only aspect that really matters.

That said I am looking forward to what comes out of them now that they actually have studios. I don't even care for Ninja Theory but I always thought they had a solid visual team and it would be interesting to see what they do with a budget.

There's plenty of Xbox fans who are unsatisfied, it's not just drive by console wars. Trying to silence their complaints or feigning ignorance is not a good look to be honest.
Microsoft had people leading the company and key divisions that did not have a good enough vision of what to do with gaming and they have started turning the ship with some leadership changes that have taken effect.

Microsoft has dropped the ball and I have stated that so many times than I care to remember. I have often also looked in disgust as Sony has padded their game releases by getting remasters out, not having a viable shooter or a great racing game when Microsoft has no issues releasing those.

There is very little that they can do about this generation or the remainder of it and I am of the opinion that they should focus most of their effort in the next generation. I am not even confident that Crackdown will have a good release, but that is what they have coming out along with Ori, and Gears of War. Ride out the generation and focus on next gen; I see a lean 2019 and a lean 2020 for the most part.
 

Deleted member 19924

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
3,543
Let's look at that.

Since 2007:

Uncharted Drake's Fortune
Uncharted 2
Uncharted 3
Uncharted 4
Uncharted Lost Legacy
(Nathan Drake Collection)

Since 2006:

Gears of War
Gears of War 2
Gears of War 3
Gears Judgement
Gears 4
(Gears of War Ultimate Edition)

To keep it fair I'll ignore Uncharted GA as it was Vita only. But yeah, you can see that there isn't any difference there.

And it's not like Microsoft hasn't tried to create big new franchises whether it's SO with Insomniac, Quantum Break with Remedy etc, but none of them have hit the mark and they simply haven't had the budget to take any bigger risks in recent years.

When you're running a gaming division with an extremely limited budget, obviously you're going to fall back on to existing successful IP to reduce the risk.

Also, the IP is irrelevant. Soon there will be no fewer than seven Mario games on Switch, and even more if you include spin-off characters like Toad and Donkey Kong. But few are complaining, because each of these games is interesting, unique or has fresh gameplay elements. It's what you do with the IP that can be the issue, rather than the IP itself. Just look at what Sony has done with God of War and basically reinvented it - few were complaining 'oh not more God of War'.

Microsoft has the ability to - and needs to - do this with Halo. And to be fair, it looks like exactly that is happening with Infinite. Forza 8 is getting more time in the oven. And Gears 5 looks to be a departure from the usual structure of the games.

Someone did say that Sony was building a new studio dedicated to Uncharted. Whilst this is all unconfirmed at this point, it would be funny to see considering how much flack Microsoft got for setting certain studios up as "franchise factories."
 

vorimenn

Banned
Jul 28, 2018
1,225
London, United Kingdom.
Xbox gamers got their - equally awesome - Insomniac exclusive before, too. Yet, not enough people cared.

In addition, Xbox will also get another similar exclusive open-world super-hero game with Crackdown 3, which I expect to be just as fun (and a better longevity thanks to co-op and multiplayer).
But Crackdown 3 has a lot of hate and not good opinions. And we very good know why. Unfortunately. But this is their fault that announced game too, too, too early and developer didn't do enough work during these years.
 

Ascenion

Prophet of Truth - One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,105
Mecklenburg-Strelitz
Xbox gamers got their - equally awesome - Insomniac exclusive before, too. Yet, not enough people cared.

In addition, Xbox will also get another similar exclusive open-world super-hero game with Crackdown 3, which I expect to be just as fun (and a better longevity thanks to co-op and multiplayer).

I said it in another thread but I'll repeat it here: I'm baffled that Microsoft didn't approach Insomniac for Crackdown 3 after Sunset Overdrive. That's literally something I wish I could have now.
 
Oct 26, 2017
8,992
Remember, Spider-Man would not have even happened without Sony. Insomniac has said this themselves. So you can't really blame Marvel for leaving Xbox owners out of the party. You can't blame Sony either for giving PS4 owners an awesome exclusive.

Is that in terms of funding? I really wonder what's different about if Marvel had just gone straight to Insomniac. Genuinely curious now what Sony did.

Either way, just watxhed this video



And it's clear they are serious about Marvel games now. It should be interesting to see how Spidey in Avengers is being handled, assuming Avengers comes to Xbox too, which I absolutely believe so. Then again Spidey is still a Marvel character so I guess it should be no problem.

And as much as some people want to see Iron Man or Punisher exclusive to Xbox I think it's best if these Marvel games, future games other than Spidey's own games will be for both Xbox and PS systems.
 

II JumPeR I

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
2,770
Germany
Remember, Spider-Man would not have even happened without Sony. Insomniac has said this themselves. So you can't really blame Marvel for leaving Xbox owners out of the party. You can't blame Sony either for giving PS4 owners an awesome exclusive.
I really dont believe that nonsense.
Marvel could have approached Insomniac and then get a Publisher like Acti or THQ to make it Multiplatform.
 

Kiekura

Member
Mar 23, 2018
4,043
The competition has a larger diversity within its portfolio. Microsoft has some guaranteed sellers in Halo, Gears & Forza but the overall sales of these series has gone down ( except for Forza Horizon ofc ) largely thanks to MS first party mismanagement.

This exactly.

PlayStation have their own beloved series

God of War. They tried something new and it worked out. Now Halo Infinite is trying same thing and that is good

Gran Turismo even more known and beloved than Forza. Although GT sport isn't as big success as their old games.

Uncharted, but I think that series came to it's end.

Not to mention that PlayStation actually have new series coming. The Last of Us is almost like face of PlayStation now with over 17 million copies sold and TloU 2 coming. Horizon: Zero Dawn was loved and now we got Spider-Man too.

Then there is these smaller series like Yakuza (which Microsoft didn't want back in the day), Ratchet and Clank etc.

And Nintendo is like: "My sweet summer childs"
 

Deleted member 47654

user requested account closure
Banned
Sep 10, 2018
2,612
Say wahtever you want, but i think that Crackdown 3's campaign will be really Good and i'm not saying this cause of Terry Crews, the comedy or something like that, i'm saying it cause i've read really interesting stuff about the game, stuff that videogame press hasn't properly covered yet.
The marketing needs to improve to let this things to shine with their own light.
 

Kiekura

Member
Mar 23, 2018
4,043
I really dont believe that nonsense.
Marvel could have approached Insomniac and then get a Publisher like Acti or THQ to make it Multiplatform.

Maybe Marvel went to Sony, because they saw how well their singleplayer games tend to sell and get reviewed?

And marvel is already making other games with other devs and publishers
 

Splader

Member
Feb 12, 2018
5,063
Speaking of Insomniac, I feel like now would be a great time to announce an X patch for Sunset Overdrive. There are still quite a few people who haven't played through the game, and MS could take advantage of the attention Insomniac is currently getting. I remember before Insomniac was saying it was up to MS to get that patch, and now would be a great time to push for it, imo.
 

Deleted member 18951

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,531

Splader

Member
Feb 12, 2018
5,063
Don't know if this is known already.

Paul Crocker is now a narrative director at 343 Industries. Crocker has a very good track record: he was the Lead Narrative Designer at Rocksteady and the Narrative Director at WB Games Montreal (narrative director on the excellent Batman Arkham games).

https://www.linkedin.com/in/paul-crocker-342a8a23/
Hmm, that sounds like good news to me.

I know a lot of the people hated how they did the forerunners in Halo 4 (and 5, I guess...), but I really enjoyed the lore. Especially after reading the Forerunner trilogy.

My ideal (supper ideal) story for Halo is the eventual partnering of the Chief and the Didact to take out the flood once and for all.
 

Bede-x

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,425
I can get the argument against Forza Motorsport and Forza Horizon's biannual releases, but when it comes to Halo and Gears this generation has been kind of relaxed.

It's Forza Motorsport that needs to relax. Turn 10 should skip an entry and do something new. Forza Horizon on the other hand should keep going for at least a couple more installments and see where the series is then. It feels like it's finally hitting its stride in terms of sales and people taking notice (the quality was always there) and just a few minutes with the demo of Horizon 4 feels magical, exciting and somehow still fresh.
 

XVerdena

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,918
Don't know if this is known already.

Paul Crocker is now a narrative director at 343 Industries. Crocker has a very good track record: he was the Lead Narrative Designer at Rocksteady and the Narrative Director at WB Games Montreal (narrative director on the excellent Batman Arkham games).

https://www.linkedin.com/in/paul-crocker-342a8a23/


ltzv25csolm11.jpg
 

Akai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,045
Yeah, Paul Crocker was known. We had a couple mentions in some threads. Just like we did have mentions of others like Horizon: Zero Dawn's combat designer (Troy Mashburn) being the Lead Sandbox designer at 343i now.

Hopefully that actually means something. I mean, I liked what I have seen in the trailer, but that's not even 1% of the final product. Going to be very interesting either way.
 

Finaj

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,360
Was Paul Crocker involved in Arkham Knight? I feel like that game's writing quality wasn't up to par with the previous two games.
 

Akai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,045
Was Paul Crocker involved in Arkham Knight? I feel like that game's writing quality wasn't up to par with the previous two games.

Yeah, he was. Listed as Lead Narrative Designer in the credits. Tough call on these licensed franchises, though, because it's possible that the franchise owners chime in and tell you what's okay and what's not. At least that's what I have heard from other licensed franchises.

That being said, I didn't have an issue with the writing in Arkham Knight. It was actually one of the better parts of the game, in my eyes.
 

Deleted member 47654

user requested account closure
Banned
Sep 10, 2018
2,612
Was Paul Crocker involved in Arkham Knight? I feel like that game's writing quality wasn't up to par with the previous two games.
Yup, i feel The same about Arkham Knight's story, the game has good moments thats for sure, but it has so many flaws too, stoic Batman is the biggest one, not to mention the villains logic regards Gotham's destruction or The Joker taking the place as te main villain again.
I want Halo 4's Masterchief, not an stoic one, i dont know if this man can give me that.
 

talkTOmyHAND

Banned
Aug 25, 2018
452
Some of those are good games, not great games. I also do not know that Sony put in money to get Persona and Yakuza as exclusives (I haven't checked) and as such cannot credit them for their exclusivity. Someone somewhere might have more information.

Since you mentioned Sony's best endeavors/partnerships this generation, you counted Street Fighter V in previous post. Surely game wasn't financial success nor it was great either at the beginning. Good or great, that's not the point. You had referred to best partnerships, NOT some game is good, great or bad. Games i had mentioned are falling under best endeavors/partnerships
 
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GamerDude

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
6,313
Sony's best endeavors/partnerships this generation have been Bloodborne, Street Fighter V, Uncharted 4, Horizon Zero Dawn, Nioh, God of War, Detroit: Become Human, Spider Man.

Microsoft's best games/partnerships this generation have been Titanfall, Forza Motorsport 6, Forza Motorsport 7, Halo 5, Gears of War 4, Sunset Overdrive, Forza Horizon 3, Killer Instinct: Definitive Edition, Cuphead, Ori and the Blind Forest and soon to be Forza Horizon 4.

When I hear talk about the Xbox One not having enough quality it usually means that it does not have the same quality when it comes to third person action adventure games and not doing the in thing right now where Japanese publishers and developers have been going hard at remasters. It also takes away from the fact that like Sony who have tried with Driveclub and GT Sport in racing, Microsoft have attempted having some third person adventure games that did not pan out like ReCore, Ryse: Son of Rome, Quantum Break.

It is a case of two consoles having strengths in different areas.

I appreciate what you're getting at, but I don't think you can list every single Forza game on Xbox's side, yet leave out tons of great PS4 exclusives:
- Persona 5 (actually rated higher than any Xbox exclusive), Uncharted Lost Legacy, Until Dawn, Resogun, Nex Machina, Infamous Second Son, Yakuza 0, Yakuza Kiwami 1 & 2, Yakuza 6, MLB The Show series, Shadow of the Colossus remake, Gravity Rush 2, Transistor, and Pyre.

That's a huge list of great games that you omitted. Add that to the amazing list that you did include, and you have a fantastic lineup of PS4 exclusives. Xbox One has some excellent exclusives as well, but it pales in comparison. It doesn't hold up in terms of high-end quality, variety, or quantity.
 
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Daygon

Self-requested ban.
Banned
Aug 12, 2018
384
So, may i ask why you didn't react before then when Sony's games are mentioned before my post in previous page? Looks like someone has a privilege to mention Sony's game here, someone doesn't. Nobody trolled or something similar.

Just leave, you don't like Xbox anyway so go somewhere else that interests you.
 
Apr 6, 2018
1,859
Yup, i feel The same about Arkham Knight's story, the game has good moments thats for sure, but it has so many flaws too, stoic Batman is the biggest one, not to mention the villains logic regards Gotham's destruction or The Joker taking the place as te main villain again.
I want Halo 4's Masterchief, not an stoic one, i dont know if this man can give me that.
He wrote Asylum and city, his biography mentions wb montreal so he contributed to origins, and the fact that he left during knight development makes difficult to understand how much he was involved(for sure the main theme of the screenplay was written early) and so on
 
Jul 4, 2018
1,133
Apr 6, 2018
1,859
Desperate, and I'm 90%n sure it would be useless, attempt to switch the topic back to the right one in the thread instead of going again and again discussing sterile comparisons.
I've noticed that this guy which usually interact with JezC on twitter has updated his bio and says he's the producer of Age Of Empire 3 DE.
https://twitter.com/Robeyonekenobi.
So we know who's the msgp's man envisioning it but the sh still remains unknown and we had zero info on AoE2.
Someone had grabbed more infos?
 
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