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SlipperyMoose

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,231
I was under the honest belief Microsoft would not reall be purchasing or creating any more studios for awhile. I know they said they would never stop but I felt as if there would be a lul between the next purchase. It looks like I am going to be wrong about that.
 

Defect

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,677
As a Classic Halo fan, I was surprised at how much I enjoyed Halo 5. I hated Reach for obvious reasons and well, Halo 4 expanded on Reach so I hated that too.

H5 had a pretty damn good weapon sandbox even though the storm rifle was op. I'm glad it went back to equal starts and power weapons back on the map with a timer. I didn't really care that everyone saw the timer. Sprint was handled better (I still prefer no sprint) and the rest of the Abilities weren't anything to write home about except thrust. Spartan Charge is dumb and it shouldn't lock on but it rarely happens and same with groundpound.

The gunplay was great and I never really needed to pick up a br since the pistol could hold its own. The multiplayer definitely felt like Halo, or the closest to Halo we could get after Reach and 4.

After playing it at a high level for years, it was kinda draining to play because of all the advanced movement you had to do to stay at the top of your game with sprint thrust sliding and jump stabilizing.

My main issues with the game were the playlist management, aiming being weird, strict mmr system where I had to make an alt account in order to actually find a match, and the post launch "support".

Oh and changing the weapon balance two years after the game was basically dead.
 
Jun 22, 2018
2,154
I'm not sure how you can come to this conclusion.

Halo5 likely appealed most to people who were the least put off by Reach and 4. H5 sold worse than both of those games. H4s retention was abysmal.

So we've learned H5 was somewhat better at retaining the fewer remaining modern Halo fans, than Reach was at retaining classic Halo fans. This bodes well for fans of the return of classic concepts like even starts.
Came to what conclusion? I just reworded the statement made by the devs.
 
Apr 18, 2018
200
Cellar door would be a good pick up. I loved Rogue Legacy. I haven't played Full Metal Furies yet but all reports are that it didn't sell very well.
 

Rami Seb

Banned
Sep 28, 2018
886
Reading Disqus and N4G shows that there is no shortage of stupid people on this planet in 2018/2019.

People are actually dumb enough to believe that 100+ publishers/developers are going to split Game Pass revenue....CHRIST

That's NOT how subscriptions like this work. Those publishers/developers get a payment up front, they don't get any cut of the subscription revenue

Case in point, Netflix paid Dave Chapelle 50 million dollars for his Netflix contract...he doesn't actually get a cut of the Netflix revenue
 

Splader

Member
Feb 12, 2018
5,063
Reading Disqus and N4G shows that there is no shortage of stupid people on this planet in 2018/2019.

People are actually dumb enough to believe that 100+ publishers/developers are going to split Game Pass revenue....CHRIST

That's NOT how subscriptions like this work. Those publishers/developers get a payment up front, they don't get any cut of the subscription revenue

Case in point, Netflix paid Dave Chapelle 50 million dollars for his Netflix contract...he doesn't actually get a cut of the Netflix revenue
It's not always like that though. Take for example Crunchyroll, where the more popular shows on that streaming network do indeed get paid more.
 

Rami Seb

Banned
Sep 28, 2018
886
It's not always like that though. Take for example Crunchyroll, where the more popular shows on that streaming network do indeed get paid more.

Yes they get paid more just like Dave Chappelle gets paid a boat load of money because of how popular his Netflix specials are

But they still get zero of the subscription revenue. They just get a larger contract. Chappelle is going to get tons more money than someone who put an independent or foreign film on Netflix.

Netflix and most likely Microsoft try to keep this data internal and not share it, because if someone knows that their content is being watched or played more, they can demand more money from Netflix and MS

If someone on Game Pass knows that their game is being played more then you know they'll string MS for every possible penny they can get, rightfully so. Because if your content is popular you should get paid more.

But my point is people are stupid enough to think that everyone is actually sharing the 10$ subscription revenue.
 
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Super Havoc

Banned
Aug 24, 2018
1,771
The Haven
Sorry i don't get this.
You don't have to pay for online if you stream. You have to pay for Xbox Live Gold if you want to stream and when you have Xbox Live Gold you can play online. On PC and Mobile you wouldn't need that for online play anyway.
As i said, right now Xbox Live Gold is not monetized on PC or Mobile. That way it would be monetized through xClould.
Xbox Live Gold is already the online subscription from Microsoft. Game Streaming is online. So it makes sense to cover xClould with that subscription.

Xbox Game Pass on the other hand is the game rent service subscrption. I'm not sure what would be confusing about this for costumers.
Getting both for $10 is not sustainable. Get the games "for free" and the necessary stream bandwidth + hardware for just $10 would be to low to cover all costs.
Netflix has 150m subscriber, a less demanding / complex hardware infrastructure and lower bandwidth use, yet their profit margin is already very slim.


That would really surprise me and be a very agressive move my MS. Probably to agressive as they said they want to have this coexist and not replace anything.
An all Access subscription makes sense, sure. But that would be $15 at least.


I agree with mostly everything here. xCloud will likely be paired with having a Gold subscription.

Also, some of ya'll are tripping tripping. GWG is excellent. I've picked up over 40 or so games over the years due to it that I otherwise wouldn't have either played or paid for.

Also, game sharing is a part of that iirc. It's more than worth it.
 

Banamy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,402
I know you don't want to talk about halo. BUT, When the classic halo fans say they want a new classic halo game, it doesn't mean just bring back halo 3 with new maps. We want a game built around the core aspects about what made classic halo great. The golden triangle, grenades, melee, shoot, you should be able to do all those things at all times. Clamber was an issue in halo 5 because it took the weapon out of your hand. Sprint is a huge issue with halo, it inflates map size for no reason (there's evidence), takes the weapon out of your hand, and allows for mistakes not to be punished. Maps haven't been good since sprint was introduced.
 

Super Havoc

Banned
Aug 24, 2018
1,771
The Haven
You honestly think people on mobile will buy Xbox Live Gold just to stream... and then either buy games or get xgp to play games? That's not an expectation of any other streaming service. Spotify, Netflix, Hulu, DirectTV Now, Crunchyroll, Apple Music etc...every single one of those subscriptions give you the ability to stream and content in the same subscription. I know there's a cost with bandwith and stuff, I believe Microsoft will take a loss on that and it will eventually become cheap enough to run (that's the reason why they are even launcing it now, per words of Phil Spencer saying it needs to be cheap enough, I think it was in a GiantBomb interview). You can't, as a CEO say you want to be the Netflix, or Spotify of gaming and not follow that same model (which they've been implementing). Customers will assume that I pay for this service that I can access the content you promise me on any device that you are available on.
Netflix has 150m subscriber and less demanding infrastructure and their profit margins aren't high and they aren't high for a simple reason...that's their only source of revenue. Microsoft has the benefit of selling the games on Game Pass (with discounts) and they have a big key...Downloadable Content and Microtransactions. High profit margin items. The more users you have on your subscription, the more likely they will buy that content for higher profit margins than you would trying to sell individual titles with that same DLC. Netflix wishes that they could monetize further on the users that they have. 150m userbase is huge and that's the type of userbase numbers Microsoft is trying to go for with Xbox Game Pass (that's why they market their opportunity with 2 billion gamers knowing full well that they won't get that many users to subscribe, but they can try to get them into the ecosystem one way or another) that's over a 1.5 billion dollars of revenue a month and that's only subscribers.

$10 a month is sustainable if you aren't looking at stuff in a vacuum and you have a 5-10-20 year plan. You'll make your money on the backend and selling xgp/dlc/and regular game sales/developers using your service like playfab. Streaming plays a part in microsoft also competing with games on iOS and Android devices. Why play a "mobile" game when I can play "console quality" games on my phone for cheap and can carry that to bigger devices when I'm at home? What you are stating with it being $10 a month and non sustainable is the same logic people used with Office 365 being $99/yr vs. $200 outright every 3 years. Same logic people used when saying MS would lose a bunch of money putting their AAA titles on Game Pass. The same logic people said about Netflix. Funny enough Microsoft did Spotify with Zune Music Pass years before Spotify was a big thing. Don't look at the right in your face, you gotta look down the road. Microsoft ain't put Xbox at the seat of the big boys table for winning the "console war"...no, they want multibillion dollar bets.


You make a really great point too.

I'll just wait and see what they announce at E3, which is where I expect some of this to be revealed.
 
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Rami Seb

Banned
Sep 28, 2018
886
As MS releases more and more first party there's going to be less room for third party on Game Pass. What are the chances that third party eventually fizzles out on Game Pass? We know that Disney already has such a massive backlog for their streaming service thus they can sustain Disney+ with a backlog and with a steady stream of new content.

Is MS done funding third party games where they don't own the IP like Sunset Overdrive? I imagine if they don't own a studio, they'll at least want to own the IP like Ori, Killer Instinct, ReCore, Quantum Break, Crackdown etc.

I hope they stop with third party exclusives and timed exclusives, waste of time and money IMO.
 

Splader

Member
Feb 12, 2018
5,063
Yes they get paid more just like Dave Chappelle gets paid a boat load of money because of how popular his Netflix specials are

But they still get zero of the subscription revenue. They just get a larger contract. Chappelle is going to get tons more money than someone who put an independent or foreign film on Netflix.

Netflix and most likely Microsoft try to keep this data internal and not share it, because if someone knows that their content is being watched or played more, they can demand more money from Netflix and MS

If someone on Game Pass knows that their game is being played more then you know they'll string MS for every possible penny they can get, rightfully so. Because if your content is popular you should get paid more.

But my point is people are stupid enough to think that everyone is actually sharing the 10$ subscription revenue.
No no, I meant like shows on there get more revenue depending on how many people watch them. At least that's how it was a while back.

As in if more people watched a certain episode or show one week, that show creator/creators would get more money.

Have no idea if it was directly from the sub revenue, but I'm sure that's a part of it.
 

Rami Seb

Banned
Sep 28, 2018
886
No no, I meant like shows on there get more revenue depending on how many people watch them. At least that's how it was a while back.

As in if more people watched a certain episode or show one week, that show creator/creators would get more money.

Have no idea if it was directly from the sub revenue, but I'm sure that's a part of it.

When was it like this? Dragon Ball Super is probably the most popular show on CruncyRoll but Toei Animation isn't getting a cut of the subscription revenue but rather they get a fatter contract than a show that may only have a few hundred people watch it per month.

That isn't nor ever was practical by any means. I've never heard of any subscription services, Hulu, Netflix, Cruncy Roll etc where the sub revenue is split because there are too many parties involved. Crunchy roll has dozens of parties involved and there is no way they're splitting someones 6.95 a month revenue.
 

Chettlar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,604
God of War completely reinvented itself. So much so that it even changed genres. It was met with universal praise. I doubt Halo fans would be that open. I'd love for Halo Infinite to be an open world RPG, complete with weapon and armor crafting, dialogue options and branching narratives, but that won't happen. Because, "that's not Halo". Like, what does that even mean? What is Halo? Just a 90's era FPS?

the problem is because we have SO MANY OF THOSE. We have almost nothing like Halo. You'd rather it be something completely different because you don't like it. Maybe you could just, I don't know, let fans have something they can't get anywhere else.
 

papahefe

Member
Apr 29, 2018
346
is there, like, a halo thread we can talk about halo on instead? 'cause all this halo fighting is really dampening the new studio/new ip/game awards/scarlet hype in a big way.
 

SpinierBlakeD

Attempted to circumvent ban with an alt account
Banned
Oct 28, 2018
1,353
the problem is because we have SO MANY OF THOSE. We have almost nothing like Halo. You'd rather it be something completely different because you don't like it. Maybe you could just, I don't know, let fans have something they can't get anywhere else.
Isn't that the same mentality that has lead to the current state of the Call of Duty franchise? It might be a laughing stock on internet forums, but hey, the fans like it! I really just don't understand what is so unique about Halo. It's a sci fi FPS. I've played a dozen of those. I can understand stentiment and devotion to the characters and themes, and I think the criticism of Halo 5's story are completely valid, but I don't get the fascination with the old school design.

One of the reasons God of War changed (I'm going to go back to this well a lot, just FYI) was because the original game was made in 2005. It was a different era and what worked then wouldn't work today. They modernized the mechanics of the game while keeping the character and themes consistent. It's why the game was still "God of War" at it's core despite existing in a different genre than it did before. It also worked for Assassin's Creed. It was a tired and uninspired social stealth game with it's glory days well behind it. Then they reinvented it as an RPG series and the results have been two of the best games in the franchise. Innovation is not something to turn away from.

Here's a compromise, because it seems we're coming at this from different perspectives: for multiplayer, go nuts. Take away sprinting, ADS, add strafing, make an old school game. Great. Love it. But for single player, deemphasize co-op, double down on an emotional story that's going to get me invested in these characters and make the game world more experiential. Best of both worlds.
 

Vulcan Logic

Banned
Jul 28, 2018
174
Isn't that the same mentality that has lead to the current state of the Call of Duty franchise? It might be a laughing stock on internet forums, but hey, the fans like it! I really just don't understand what is so unique about Halo. It's a sci fi FPS. I've played a dozen of those. I can understand stentiment and devotion to the characters and themes, and I think the criticism of Halo 5's story are completely valid, but I don't get the fascination with the old school design.

One of the reasons God of War changed (I'm going to go back to this well a lot, just FYI) was because the original game was made in 2005. It was a different era and what worked then wouldn't work today. They modernized the mechanics of the game while keeping the character and themes consistent. It's why the game was still "God of War" at it's core despite existing in a different genre than it did before. It also worked for Assassin's Creed. It was a tired and uninspired social stealth game with it's glory days well behind it. Then they reinvented it as an RPG series and the results have been two of the best games in the franchise. Innovation is not something to turn away from.

Here's a compromise, because it seems we're coming at this from different perspectives: for multiplayer, go nuts. Take away sprinting, ADS, add strafing, make an old school game. Great. Love it. But for single player, deemphasize co-op, double down on an emotional story that's going to get me invested in these characters and make the game world more experiential. Best of both worlds.
Here here
 

hmqgg

Member
Nov 1, 2017
221
Will we be seeing the Windows Store for gaming addressed at GDC? Phil Spencer brought it up specifically at X0 that they are aware of the problems with the Win10 store and want to provide something better.

The content of Windows gaming session is not confirmed yet, but I believe they will spend a lot of time on DirectX 12 supporting Win7, since it will be published the first half of next year.
 

12Danny123

Member
Jan 31, 2018
1,722
The content of Windows gaming session is not confirmed yet, but I believe they will spend a lot of time on DirectX 12 supporting Win7, since it will be published the first half of next year.


I think you need to realise how ridiculous that sounds. You can't just put DX12 support on Windows 7 without doing a massive OS update. Plus Windows 7 is on its last year next year, it's a dying horse.
 

Chettlar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,604
The content of Windows gaming session is not confirmed yet, but I believe they will spend a lot of time on DirectX 12 supporting Win7, since it will be published the first half of next year.

Wait what? Why? Windows 7 is going to stop being supported in general, no? Why would they go back and do that?
 

Pryme

Member
Aug 23, 2018
8,164
Out of curiosity...how come nobody mentions Ready at Dawn in any of these discussions of potential acquisitions?
They've got the technical aptitude, that's for sure and I don't think they're rolling in dough financially.
Plus, they have significant experience with VR titles.
 

Trup1aya

Literally a train safety expert
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,327
Came to what conclusion? I just reworded the statement made by the devs.

If people didn't like the changes in 5, they would have abandoned it faster, like those other titles.

Fewer people bought the game than any other mainline game. So how well liked was it?

At best, you can argue that it was somewhat better at retaining those who accept advanced movement.

Isn't that the same mentality that has lead to the current state of the Call of Duty franchise? It might be a laughing stock on internet forums, but hey, the fans like it! I really just don't understand what is so unique about Halo. It's a sci fi FPS. I've played a dozen of those. I can understand stentiment and devotion to the characters and themes, and I think the criticism of Halo 5's story are completely valid, but I don't get the fascination with the old school design.

One of the reasons God of War changed (I'm going to go back to this well a lot, just FYI) was because the original game was made in 2005. It was a different era and what worked then wouldn't work today. They modernized the mechanics of the game while keeping the character and themes consistent. It's why the game was still "God of War" at it's core despite existing in a different genre than it did before. It also worked for Assassin's Creed. It was a tired and uninspired social stealth game with it's glory days well behind it. Then they reinvented it as an RPG series and the results have been two of the best games in the franchise. Innovation is not something to turn away from.

Here's a compromise, because it seems we're coming at this from different perspectives: for multiplayer, go nuts. Take away sprinting, ADS, add strafing, make an old school game. Great. Love it. But for single player, deemphasize co-op, double down on an emotional story that's going to get me invested in these characters and make the game world more experiential. Best of both worlds.

The old school design made for a style of Multiplayer that you really couldn't find anywhere else. It was uniquely halo.

The lack of sprint means that everyone can shoot at anytime while moving in any direction.

That might seem like a small detail, but it greatly changes the way people navigate maps, engage in and retreat from combat, and setup for offense/defense.

This video sums it up rather nicely


It opens with a split screen of a player taking the same route on the H5 and H2 versions of midship. The H5 map is "stretched" to accommodate sprint.

Each route takes the exact same amount of time time traverse, but it H2, you can traverse it while shooting, looking 360 degrees around you togather information, and dealing damage . With Sprint in H5,you Are locked into looking straight ahead , and you can't deal any damage.

So, the larger maps actually nullify sprint's speed increase, leaving only a lack damage dealing and a lack of free-look as sprints meaninful impact. And the longer maps mean H5s base movement is relatively slower than in H2.

I don't think people really care THAT much about single player movement mechanics- but even there, you don't have to make the player stop shooting to make running "immersive". A sprint animation, doesn't need to require the character to stop shooting. That's a limitation, not an enhancement.
 
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12Danny123

Member
Jan 31, 2018
1,722
I was as astonished as you when I first time saw that.

Do you actually have proof of this? You can't add support to Windows 7 without a massive update to the OS (Service Pack level or Windows 10 feature update level), also since mainstream support has ended for Windows 7 (Meaning no feature updates or service packs, it makes your source pretty much BS.
 

Gundam

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,801
If we're going to keep regurgitating Halo talk can we at least regurgitate actual arguments that aren't from 2015 Waypoint forums? It's a well covered topic from a game design analysis standpoint and the only counter argument other than 'I like it' is "It needs to be like other shooters/update".

I would say move it to Halo OT but I dont think even they deserve it.
 

hmqgg

Member
Nov 1, 2017
221
Do you actually have proof of this? You can't add support to Windows 7 without a massive update to the OS (Service Pack level or Windows 10 feature update level), also since mainstream support has ended for Windows 7 (Meaning no feature updates or service packs, it makes your source pretty much BS.

Actually, it will be packaged into the game.
 

solis74

Member
Jun 11, 2018
42,831
God damn, Microsoft ain't fucking around. Truly a sleeping giant has been woken.

Never in my wildest dreams would I have thought Obsidian, Ninja or Playground would become 1st party studios under Xbox and full backing. Not to to mention a paradigm shift in both funding and the culture of managing studios there. We're in crazy (good) times with more to come.

great times ahead!
 

solis74

Member
Jun 11, 2018
42,831
One great, surprising study would be FromSoftware. It belongs to Kadokawa, but is not a game publisher. It would meet Matt's talk about diversity in games and closeness in travel since he now has the Asian division of MSGP. Phil's trips to Japan are also a little suspicious, is it just to bring in third-party games?
I also remember that they said (I think it was giantbomb) that a studio purchase would be a hard blow to Sony. According to wikipedia they have 289 officials, it would not be a gigantic study like the CDPR and its 700.
It may seem crazy but Obisidian and Ninja Theory also looked like. Money is no problem for those who already tried the nintendo and square.

who knows for now?
 
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