Microsoft Studios |OT3| I thought they were supposed to be sold off by now

Apr 18, 2018
55
I'm not gonna copy and paste this thing that i wrote but here's my last big prediction for next gen (though it is stuff that I've been saying here...lol):
https://www.thurrott.com/forums/mic...ssion-into-the-xbox-ecosystem-next-generation
Good read, nice job. In your other article you mentioned why you think Xbox Live Gold will remove the paywall. I think it's a good idea but I have trouble grasping how they would do that in practice. How would you see that going down?

The simplest thing would be to just get rid of Xbox Live Gold entirely and convert existing subscriptions over into GamePass subscriptions? Or maybe convert them into credit? This is tricky as they are sold at retailers and often go on sale.

Would Xbox Live Gold still be a thing without the multiplayer component?
Would they just merge the subscriptions into a single GamePass subscription?
Would they stop giving free games per month?
 
Jun 20, 2018
350
This was definitely a favor called in by Microsoft to get studios that are on the fence interested in acquisition talks.

At the end of the day, I think that game makers want to make games and partnering with Microsoft gives them the chance to do that without a lot of the bullshit tied to being an independent studio. I'm excited to see what these studios will do without being tied to a publisher's agenda.
 
Oct 28, 2017
2,636
Good read, nice job. In your other article you mentioned why you think Xbox Live Gold will remove the paywall. I think it's a good idea but I have trouble grasping how they would do that in practice. How would you see that going down?

The simplest thing would be to just get rid of Xbox Live Gold entirely and convert existing subscriptions over into GamePass subscriptions? Or maybe convert them into credit? This is tricky as they are sold at retailers and often go on sale.

Would Xbox Live Gold still be a thing without the multiplayer component?
Would they just merge the subscriptions into a single GamePass subscription?
Would they stop giving free games per month?
My full answer to that, I had back in February: https://www.thurrott.com/forums/mic...ltiplayer-paywall-why-i-think-it-will-go-away

Xbox Live Gold can and probably will still be a thing but won't have the multiplayer component to it. It can morph into something or go away entirely because of the overlap. Gold is only going to be for consoles and it's going to be the minority group of users once xCloud and GamePass take off. I only see it giving value as more discounts for gamers. There's more value in games from GamePass. I wouldn't be surprised if they got rid of it, merged it into Xbox Game Pass (removing the free games) for the same $10/mo, or they kept it with just discounts and GWG.

That’s the thing. I don’t think the majority of people are going to want to do that. It’ll have its niche sure but I just don’t see it being the go-to.
Majority of people who play video games are actually mobile. So that niche thing you are talking about is already out the door.
 
Nov 2, 2017
2,123
Think about this way: you're a console gamer. You stay at home and play your Xbox games on your nice fancy TV. Then you have to go out of town, for business or personal reasons or what have you. Now you can bring your games with you without having to box up your console. It's essentially just a Nintendo Switch, except instead of building a portable device, Microsoft is leveraging the ones you already own.
So many advantages of being able to take games on the go. Lots of stuff in Game Pass right now that isn’t twitchy and doesn’t require low latency. Would be great to be able to play Mutant Year Zero on my phone or laptop during lunch break.
 
Jun 20, 2018
350
My full answer to that, I had back in February: https://www.thurrott.com/forums/mic...ltiplayer-paywall-why-i-think-it-will-go-away

Xbox Live Gold can and probably will still be a thing but won't have the multiplayer component to it. It can morph into something or go away entirely because of the overlap. Gold is only going to be for consoles and it's going to be the minority group of users once xCloud and GamePass take off. I only see it giving value as more discounts for gamers. There's more value in games from GamePass. I wouldn't be surprised if they got rid of it, merged it into Xbox Game Pass (removing the free games) for the same $10/mo, or they kept it with just discounts and GWG.
I think we'll get three tiers that will be tied to both xCloud and Game Pass.

Xbox Silver:
Free
Online Multiplayer

Xbox Gold:
$8/month or $60/year
Everything in Silver
xCloud Streaming
Games with Gold
Discounts

Xbox Platinum:
$10 or $12/month
Everything in Gold
Game Pass
 
Oct 28, 2017
2,636
I think we'll get three tiers that will be tied to both xCloud and Game Pass.

Xbox Silver:
Free
Online Multiplayer

Xbox Gold:
$8/month or $60/year
Everything in Silver
xCloud Streaming
Games with Gold
Discounts

Xbox Platinum:
$10 or $12/month
Everything in Gold
Game Pass
Nope. Microsoft is marketing Game Pass, not some weird tier of Xbox Live Gold. Game Pass would be the only thing that makes sense to have tiers. Their tiers will be basic 1080p streaming/1user and a higher tier that have multiple users and higher quality streaming. Everything revolves around Game Pass. Xbox Live Gold is the old archaic model that was focused on consoles. Microsoft is focused on Game Pass and users getting into Game Pass on any device.
 
Oct 28, 2017
2,339
Sony and Nintendo have no reason to put GamePass on their devices. Microsoft will start out with Game Pass on PC, then mobile, and TVs, and even the web (don't be surprised). MS will want it on as many platforms as possible.
An Xbox app on smart tvs is going to be insane
 
Oct 25, 2017
567
BTW if you watch The Game Awards on Mixer tonight they are doing a MixPot. Sea of Thieves DLC and the chance to win 1 of 500 copies of Battlefield V.
 
Oct 26, 2018
238
I think we'll get three tiers that will be tied to both xCloud and Game Pass.

Xbox Silver:
Free
Online Multiplayer

Xbox Gold:
$8/month or $60/year
Everything in Silver
xCloud Streaming
Games with Gold
Discounts

Xbox Platinum:
$10 or $12/month
Everything in Gold
Game Pass
This makes the most since BT I think they're more than likely merge both services into something like Xbox live gamepass
 
Jun 20, 2018
350
Nope. Microsoft is marketing Game Pass, not some weird tier of Xbox Live Gold. Game Pass would be the only thing that makes sense to have tiers. Their tiers will be basic 1080p streaming/1user and a higher tier that have multiple users and higher quality streaming. Everything revolves around Game Pass. Xbox Live Gold is the old archaic model that was focused on consoles. Microsoft is focused on Game Pass and users getting into Game Pass on any device.
I would be very surprised if Microsoft differentiated price by resolution or number of users. I know Netflix does that, but there's a lot more to consider in gaming. I don't see Microsoft allowing multiple people to stream on one account. It becomes a logistical nightmare to have multiple gamer-tags tied to one account. Plus, I'm not sure Microsoft is going to want four people sharing one Game Pass account and everyone having their own gamertag in that account.
 
Oct 28, 2017
2,636
I would be very surprised if Microsoft differentiated price by resolution or number of users. I know Netflix does that, but there's a lot more to consider in gaming. I don't see Microsoft allowing multiple people to stream on one account. It becomes a logistical nightmare to have multiple gamer-tags tied to one account. Plus, I'm not sure Microsoft is going to want four people sharing one Game Pass account and everyone having their own gamertag in that account.
No different to how they have multiple people on an Office 365 account that is a higher tier. They already went through those logistics. People already gameshare and microsoft gets NO money from that. Might as well make it easier and get some benefit from paying a couple more dollars a month. ;)

I don't try to take anything from my ass and put it on a forum, these are formulated by where the company is headed and what models that they use currently throughout the company and what models that they want to copy from other businesses.
 
Aug 24, 2018
764
The Haven
I think we'll get three tiers that will be tied to both xCloud and Game Pass.

Xbox Silver:
Free
Online Multiplayer

Xbox Gold:
$8/month or $60/year
Everything in Silver
xCloud Streaming
Games with Gold
Discounts

Xbox Platinum:
$10 or $12/month
Everything in Gold
Game Pass

I like your thinking even if I think your prices are wrong. I could see the Xbox Gold package costing $10 a month with the Xbox Platinum being $15-20 a month.

I don't see any future with MS or Sony getting rid of Live or PSN though. It's too lucrative.
 
Oct 27, 2017
897
Amazon and Microsoft make billions each quarter based on cloud services and cloud computing. It's definitely not a lie.
Of course not. Cloud services, including compute services are a massive, massive business.
what i meant by cloud computing was the ability to play games at a visual fidelity that wasn't possible on base consoles because they were gonna render stuff on the cloud. Thats what ms said at the beginning of this generation, and it never became a thing.
 
Jan 21, 2018
5,949
what i meant by cloud computing was the ability to play games at a visual fidelity that wasn't possible on base consoles because they were gonna render stuff on the cloud. Thats what ms said at the beginning of this generation, and it never became a thing.
Crackdown is launching in 2 months. We'll see if it works.

It hasn't become mainstream, that's true.
 
Jun 11, 2018
525
The mistake you are doing looks like this:

Xbox = Hardware.

This is wrong. Hardware is just a small part of the Xbox division. Does MS still want to sell hardware? Hell, of course they want that. This is why they will have multiple options for hardware for next-gen. And yes, this is also why they will - probably - offer the strongest console you can play their games on as an option. But that’s - not at all - their main intention. Hardware is just one - of many possible - entry points to their ecosystem. A gamer playing Forza Horizon 4 on an iPad is their user - their customer - spending money and time in the Xbox ecosystem just like someone who plays the game on his premium Xbox V.

So the correct definition should be

Xbox = a user in their ecosystem.

You will have a much better understanding about the future if you keep that in mind.

An Xbox exclusive game like Halo: Infinite will still be an exclusive to the Xbox ecosystem no matter which device you are playing this game on.
agree
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,967
So many advantages of being able to take games on the go. Lots of stuff in Game Pass right now that isn’t twitchy and doesn’t require low latency. Would be great to be able to play Mutant Year Zero on my phone or laptop during lunch break.
Bruh, I can't play this game at home but dying to play it on the go. That's sorta exactly why I want this.
 
Jun 11, 2018
525
You don't see it that way because you are a console/pc gamer. Most people who play fortnite and such play on mobile. The next generation of gamers don't care for consoles AS MUCH as we do. Majority of asia's market are mobile gamers. They don't give a fuck about consoles (shit, look at japan). There are a lot of people here who are jaded and don't see beyond what they know. Mobile and streaming will be the majority quicker than you think (as long as it works)
good point
 
Oct 27, 2017
234
Today at work I had like and hour and half of free time, and I thought if Xbox streaming was a thing I could just continue playing what I was playing last night. Really can't wait streaming to become a thing.
 
Oct 26, 2017
7,787
Nothing to see there. I’m just pretty sure Xbox wouldn’t hype DMC V news.

Again, not expecting much. A CD3 trailer, Winter of Arcade and maybe something small (Game Pass or something like that).
A CD3 trailer? Oh hell I'll talk that. Some SP footage please.

As for DMCV, you don't think it could be a demo? They did reveal the game at their E3 show, so it's possible they announce a demo which could be like the RE7 demo, timed exclusive as well. Fuck I'd love a demo.
 

gcwy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,070
Michigan
So far there has been so much good news but that article about how Phil wants Game Pass on every platform sounds weird to me. If he means not only PC and phones but also the competitor's consoles.... why would potential Xbox buyers even consider grabbing a Xbox One or Scarlett in two years? And that would mean all the new studios with their new games would be all available on Switch and Playstation?

I don't believe that for a second. Because again, many players would just stick with PS or Switch if that's gonna be the case. That can't be Phil's intention. Sure, the "loyal" Xbox players will stick around but what about potential new players? I'm probably seeing it the wrong way but I do wonder how else I am supposed to see it.
Yea, not sure how I feel about that one.
 
So far there has been so much good news but that article about how Phil wants Game Pass on every platform sounds weird to me. If he means not only PC and phones but also the competitor's consoles.... why would potential Xbox buyers even consider grabbing a Xbox One or Scarlett in two years? And that would mean all the new studios with their new games would be all available on Switch and Playstation?

I don't believe that for a second. Because again, many players would just stick with PS or Switch if that's gonna be the case. That can't be Phil's intention. Sure, the "loyal" Xbox players will stick around but what about potential new players? I'm probably seeing it the wrong way but I do wonder how else I am supposed to see it.
Money is money. I think we have to look at the Surface mentality to "get it."
That team has stated multiple times that the devices are more-or-less "hero devices" that show what can be done with Windows/2-in-1s and are not meant to take money from partners. They (MS) would rather show the benchmark for what Windows can do and sell people on the ecosystem opposed to selling physical hardware (and if both - bonus). Office 365 on iPad and Android is the same thing. Why lock to a device family when it leaves so much on the table?
 
Aug 3, 2018
219
There is really gonna be a point soon that it makes no sense not to be subscribed to Gamepass.
Even more when next gen starts. Then as xbox gamer is gonna be a no brainer. You see it also with the deals now for Gamepass. MS doesnt care how much you pay for it to get in or extend. Like the 50% now for 6 months. They dont "care" they just want you in.
I didn't even bother to use the trial, I only care to play games I own. Gamepass is not for everyone.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,887
I completely disagree. People act like the series is on this huge decline. Halo 4 was the fastest selling game in the series and likely sold above 10 million. Halo 5 has declined a bit probably around 8 million sells and that’s most likely duo to 343’s bad approach to the campaign. A must step caused 1 game to decline 20%. The series is fine and is one great game away from having another 10 million seller.

My second point is halo is still awesome and It always will have a place is my heart. Pump away 343.
There's no indication that H5 reached 8 million sold. For that to happen it would have needed to outperform H3s average, every month following the initial 3 month launch window - all while xbox one is performing half as well as the 360 in Europe.

Just looking at halo5's performance vs Battlefront doesn't bode well for Halo5 hitting 8 mil, unless battlefronts sales lean heavily towards the US XBOX version. Unlikely given the Sony marketing deal.

Exactly. Thank you. Btw, Halo 5 was the fastest selling not 4. It also had the biggest launch of any title I believe up until FH4. It may still have it being it's biggest selling IP this gen still.
Halo 5 wasn't the fastest selling. In 3 months, H3 sold In the US alone what H5 sold worldwide. 4 months after release H3 had had already sold 8.1 million copies world wide.

Halo 4 is still the best selling Halo game of all time though. Confirmed by NPD.
Nope. NDP only tracks US. H4 was quoted as selling faster than H3, But that quote only refered each game's 1st respective fiscal years. H3 had longer legs.
 
There's no indication that H5 reached 8 million sold. For that to happen it would have needed to outperform H3s average, every month following the initial 3 month launch window - all while xbox one is performing half as well as the 360 in Europe.

Just looking at halo5's performance vs Battlefront doesn't bode well for Halo5 hitting 8 mil, unless battlefronts sales lean heavily towards the US XBOX version. Unlikely given the Sony marketing deal.



Halo 5 wasn't the fastest selling. In 3 months, H3 sold In the US alone what H5 sold worldwide. 4 months after release H3 had had already sold 8.1 million copies world wide.



Nope. NDP only tracks US. H4 was quoted as selling faster than H3, But that quote only refered each game's 1st respective fiscal years. H3 had longer legs.
Um...Matt from NPD already confirmed that Halo 4 outsold Halo 3

Might want to check this thread

Given that the US represents the bulk of all Xbox related sales, safe to say Halo 4 is the best selling Halo game of all time.
 
Nov 2, 2017
2,522
So far there has been so much good news but that article about how Phil wants Game Pass on every platform sounds weird to me. If he means not only PC and phones but also the competitor's consoles.... why would potential Xbox buyers even consider grabbing a Xbox One or Scarlett in two years? And that would mean all the new studios with their new games would be all available on Switch and Playstation?

I don't believe that for a second. Because again, many players would just stick with PS or Switch if that's gonna be the case. That can't be Phil's intention. Sure, the "loyal" Xbox players will stick around but what about potential new players? I'm probably seeing it the wrong way but I do wonder how else I am supposed to see it.
Not sure I get this logic, if streaming on a device would stop you buying an Xbox then it doesn’t matter which devices that streaming is available on.....everyone will have a Pc or phone or tablet or TV that supports streaming game pass and therefore nobody will buy an Xbox. Being on PS makes no difference to that argument. At all.
 

Hudsoniscool

Banned
Member
Jun 5, 2018
358
There's no indication that H5 reached 8 million sold. For that to happen it would have needed to outperform H3s average, every month following the initial 3 month launch window - all while xbox one is performing half as well as the 360 in Europe.

Just looking at halo5's performance vs Battlefront doesn't bode well for Halo5 hitting 8 mil, unless battlefronts sales lean heavily towards the US XBOX version. Unlikely given the Sony marketing deal.



Halo 5 wasn't the fastest selling. In 3 months, H3 sold In the US alone what H5 sold worldwide. 4 months after release H3 had had already sold 8.1 million copies world wide.

Nope. NDP only tracks US. H4 was quoted as selling faster than H3, But that quote only refered each game's 1st respective fiscal years. H3 had longer legs.
wait a minute so you think halo 3 sold less than 3 million copies after it’s launch window(3 month period). That seams extremely low. And then you go onto say halo 3 had good legs. I’m confused. Your also saying halo 3 sold 8.1 million copies(source?) in its first 3 months. Well if it did 8.1 million copies in 3 months but less than 3 million copies in 11 years since that doesn’t sound like good legs.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,887
wait a minute so you think halo 3 sold less than 3 million copies after it’s launch window(3 month period). That seams extremely low. And then you go onto say halo 3 had good legs. I’m confused. Your also saying halo 3 sold 8.1 million copies(source?) in its first 3 months. Well if it did 8.1 million copies in 3 months but less than 3 million copies in 11 years since that doesn’t sound like good legs.
Game sales typically drop exponentially after launch.

Halo 3 sold 14.5 million by July 2012. So it sold more (almost 2x) in the first 3 full months (8.1 mil) than it did for the following 4 years (4.4 mil) . But yes that's considered good legs. Great legs actually. That's an extra million copies year... That's rare.

People for some reason believe Halo 5 bucked all sales trends despite falling off all charts almost immediately

Edit: ms announced the 8.1 on January after launch https://news.softpedia.com/news/Ove...-and-8-Million-Halo-3-Copies-Sold-75202.shtml
 
Last edited:

Hudsoniscool

Banned
Member
Jun 5, 2018
358
Game sales job exponentially after launch
Halo 3 sold 14.5 million by July 2012. So it sold more in the first 3 months than it did for the next 4 years. But yes that's considered good legs.

People for some reason believe Halo 5 bucked all sales trends despite falling off all charts almost immediately
But you just said for halo 5 to sell 8 million copies it would need to out sell halo 3 past its first 3 months. But now your saying halo 3 did 6.4 million copies past its first 3 months. So I’m confused.


Also the halo 3 sold 14.5 million copies by July 2012 thing is wrong Microsoft never said that.
They said this
“Developed by Bungie and published by Microsoft, Halo 3 is the concluding chapter in the Halo trilogy—an international award-winning action series that grew into a global entertainment phenomenon, selling more than 14.5 million games worldwide, logging more than 650 million hours of multiplayer action on Xbox Live.”

That means halo 1 + 2 sold more than 14.5 million copies. And halo 2 had 650 million hours. Halo 3 actually had more than 2 billion. Don’t use Wikipedia as fact brother.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,887
But you just said for halo 5 to sell 8 million copies it would need to out sell halo 3 past its first 3 months. But now your saying halo 3 did 6.4 million copies past its first 3 months. So I’m confused.


Also the halo 3 sold 14.5 million copies by July 2012 thing is wrong Microsoft never said that.
They said this
“Developed by Bungie and published by Microsoft, Halo 3 is the concluding chapter in the Halo trilogy—an international award-winning action series that grew into a global entertainment phenomenon, selling more than 14.5 million games worldwide, logging more than 650 million hours of multiplayer action on Xbox Live.”

That means halo 1 + 2 sold more than 14.5 million copies. And halo 2 had 650 million hours. Halo 3 actually had more than 2 billion. Don’t use Wikipedia as fact brother.
You misinterpreted the quote entirely wrong. the article is about Halo 3. The "Halo trilogy—an international award-winning action series that grew into a global entertainment phenomenon" part is just defining what Halo is. Everything else is H3 stats. MS made the quote in July 2012, on Waypoint, on the H3 page. Why do you think they'd be talking about Halo 2's online stats on H3s page so long after H2 was last relevant?

https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/games/halo-3

but your right I goofed on the math. H3 sold 8.1 mil in the first 3 months, then 6.4 over the followiing 4.5 years. So 1.4 million a year.

Still it shows how much drop off a game has after launch. In the first 3 months h3 sold 56% of all its copies. Most games will be even more front loaded.

Also, I haven't visited Wikipedia at all
 
Last edited:
Oct 25, 2017
567
edit: re-wording as I screwed up the original post

If H5 equal legs, it's at 6 million by the middle of 2019. So to hit 8 million it would have had to have better legs relative to H3.
Halo 5 sold just over 5 million in 3 months, are you saying it only sold 1 million more in just over 3 years?
 

Hope

Member
Oct 28, 2017
545
I think we'll get three tiers that will be tied to both xCloud and Game Pass.

Xbox Silver:
Free
Online Multiplayer

Xbox Gold:
$8/month or $60/year
Everything in Silver
xCloud Streaming
Games with Gold
Discounts

Xbox Platinum:
$10 or $12/month
Everything in Gold
Game Pass
There is no way they will stay at that price point especially if they include MP. I can see 15-20 bucks for the last tier.
 
Apr 6, 2018
809
There's no indication that H5 reached 8 million sold. For that to happen it would have needed to outperform H3s average, every month following the initial 3 month launch window - all while xbox one is performing half as well as the 360 in Europe.

Just looking at halo5's performance vs Battlefront doesn't bode well for Halo5 hitting 8 mil, unless battlefronts sales lean heavily towards the US XBOX version. Unlikely given the Sony marketing deal.



Halo 5 wasn't the fastest selling. In 3 months, H3 sold In the US alone what H5 sold worldwide. 4 months after release H3 had had already sold 8.1 million copies world wide.



Nope. NDP only tracks US. H4 was quoted as selling faster than H3, But that quote only refered each game's 1st respective fiscal years. H3 had longer legs.
The only reliable source is a courtesy of Stinkles on gaf, which doesn't say much, is just a square number(could be slight more or less) in a certain period of time. Pachter said in on of his podcast that 5 sold on par with the others, so still pretty vague, but he confirmed that reqs smashed all the former season passes combined as revenue.
plus is among h3 for numbers online apparently
https://www.reddit.com/r/halo/comme...n_halo_5_has/d53ujuh/?st=iqdhjnh6&sh=26e27f13


See him stream it everyday now indeed.


I've noticed that shrouded spoils give a huge push to the game, the arena will do wonders.
Um...Matt from NPD already confirmed that Halo 4 outsold Halo 3

Might want to check this thread

Given that the US represents the bulk of all Xbox related sales, safe to say Halo 4 is the best selling Halo game of all time.
https://www.resetera.com/threads/np...ween-1995-and-2018.82060/page-3#post-15173518
precise link if someone needed it
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,887
edit: re-wording as I screwed up the original post



Halo 5 sold just over 5 million in 3 months, are you saying it only sold 1 million more in just over 3 years?
I'm saying is very unlikely they averaged 1 million units a year over the following 36 months.

Sales typically drop off exponentially after launch.