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SpinierBlakeD

Attempted to circumvent ban with an alt account
Banned
Oct 28, 2018
1,353
If you're stuck in the past, sure.

Digital makes things far easier and has a lot of benefits going for it, particularly game sharing. The only negative is the pricing as used games or games in general are often cheaper physically.
I buy all my entertainment physically. Games, Blu Rays, books. My place has a lot of built-ins so I need to fill the shelf space. Plus I love the way it looks to have all of my games on a shelf. Far more satisfying than browsing a digital library. Personally I don't think it's such a big deal to stand up and swap discs. Esspecially because I am a monogamous gamer. I only play one game at a time so I'm not swapping much anyway.
 

Andrei Rublev

Member
Jun 8, 2018
1,581
I would honestly think that the next Xbox would launch with Halo: Infinite and Forza Horizon 5. Then have Ninja Theory's new title in the following Spring.
 

vorimenn

Banned
Jul 28, 2018
1,225
London, United Kingdom.
I agree. One of the problems MS suffered in 2013 was that they were less powerful and more expensive than Sony. This way, unless PS5 goes full beast mode (which I doubt because for them, I feel 399 is their sweet spot and there is only so much you can cram into a 399 box), MS will be both more powerful and cheaper than PS5 at the same time, depending on which way the buyer wants to go.
Main problems with launch of Xbox One were:
• artificially increased price with Kinect for $499 without bundle with just a console,
• very stupid TVTVTV approach on reveal event where games were just like a bonus,
• restrictions for online connections (actually it was too early for that, because now some games just need internet connection) and pre-owned games,
• too much confident approach of the company to their new product,
• too much arrogant executive (if you don't want be always online, just buy very old Xbox 360),
• very limited availability again, after Xbox and Xbox 360.

Hardware for OG Xbox One is still very good. Even if it's less powerful than PS4. It still works very well.

Because if we look only on games, they had even good times with them until 2016. Later that it was going very worse and worse. Until Spencer was promoted and 2018. But we still have to wait some long time to see and feel their effects in our hands.

Hopefully they've learnt so much to not repeat that shit.
 

Banderdash

Chicken Chaser
Member
Nov 16, 2017
2,464
Australia
So what are we too expect for Lockhart/Andaconda launch

Halo Infinte
Killer Instinct 2
Fable
something forza related


I don't see them launching Fable, Halo, & Forza at the same time... which is a pity, because i really want a new Fable.

I see Halo and Forza, a Ninja Theory game, an upgrade for Gears 5, and the usual 3rd party games.
For year 2 i see Fable, Horizon, the new Compulsion game, Fable DLC, and something from inExile.


It also depends on who they pick up in the mean time.
They'll also include BC... so i wonder if their emulator might do auto enhancements by then too?

Main problems with launch of Xbox One were:
• artificially increased price with Kinect for $499 without bundle with just a console,
• very stupid TVTVTV approach on reveal event where games were just like a bonus,
• restrictions for online connections (actually it was too early for that, because now some games just need internet connection) and pre-owned games,
• too much confident approach of the company to their new product,
• too much arrogant executive (if you don't want be always online, just buy very old Xbox 360),
• very limited availability again, after Xbox and Xbox 360.

Hardware for OG Xbox One is still very good. Even if it's less powerful than PS4. It still works very well.

Because if we look only on games, they had even good times with them until 2016. Later that it was going very worse and worse. Until Spencer was promoted and 2018. But we still have to wait some long time to see and feel their effects in our hands.

Hopefully they've learnt so much to not repeat that shit.


Also, every exec was telling the press a completely different story.
The messaging was completely borked.

I trust Phil'll get everyone on the same page this time.
 

Deleted member 5764

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,574
I think a more interesting question around launch titles this time around is, will they be on GamePass day one?

Would be weird picking up a console and potentially having 1-3 first party exclusives right off the bat without any additional cost (other than an existing sub)

I don't think we have any reason to believe that Game Pass will change in this regard, so that's an exciting thought! The idea of just needing to buy new hardware while already having access to the first party games I'd want to play is awesome.
 

B.C.

Prophet of Regret
Banned
Sep 28, 2018
1,240
I definitely don't think this time around there will be a big difference in power, if at all. Spencer made it quite clear those kind of mistakes won't be made again. If it hadn't been for the Cell both 360 and PS3 would have been nearly identical from the start and I think that's what we're gonna see. But I guess you never know.
Nah. I'm thinking the Next Xbox will probably have a few "home grown" surprises to make it the clear winner in terms of power. MS has some seriously smart people working for them. It's why the X is such a beast. They'll only expand on the knowledge/experience from creating mid-gen upgrades.

Either way, MS isnt sparing any expense to take the top spot for next gen. Fun times ahead - for gaming community and forums alike.
 
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darthpaxton

Member
Jun 20, 2018
1,697
I would honestly think that the next Xbox would launch with Halo: Infinite and Forza Horizon 5. Then have Ninja Theory's new title in the following Spring.
I do think you're on to something with this. I think Microsoft is going to be way more worried about providing a compelling title every month or two after launch than having a massive launch line-up. Third-party games will be there on day one. I think Microsoft will also include a two week Game Pass trial with every new Scarlett, in an effort to get people to subscribe to Game Pass rather than buy Halo outright.

They'll have a massive influx of "temporary" Game Pass users and in an effort to keep those people subscribed, I think they'll have the first year of Game Pass laid out really nicely with exclusives and third-party stuff. I also think they'll have a few second-party exclusives mixed in (like Ryse and Dead Rising 3 for the launch of the Xbox One). I have no doubt there will be a very clear roadmap for the first month of Game Pass on Scarlett.
 

Antrax

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,270
I think a more interesting question around launch titles this time around is, will they be on GamePass day one?

Would be weird picking up a console and potentially having 1-3 first party exclusives right off the bat without any additional cost (other than an existing sub)

Yeah, I don't buy games at launch, ever (helps me save money and manage a backlog), so the thing that gets me into console launches is services. I'm persknally hoping for even better BC (perhaps even a more native solution to upscaling games?) and increased GP stuff. Plus xCloud if it works well.
 
Oct 26, 2017
8,992
Honestly I don't mind the two Xbox consoles at launch if that's what they're going for. I just hope the higher end Xbox won't be held back by the lower end. I want all the first party games to truly shine as much as they can on that. Same with multiplatform games.
 

Ushay

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,347
Honestly I don't mind the two Xbox consoles at launch if that's what they're going for. I just hope the higher end Xbox won't be held back by the lower end. I want all the first party games to truly shine as much as they can on that. Same with multiplatform games.
It would save me having to re-purchase the higher tier console from the get go. There's clearly a distinct market for each console, capitalising on that is smart for MS imo.
 

Super Havoc

Banned
Aug 24, 2018
1,771
The Haven
I buy all my entertainment physically. Games, Blu Rays, books. My place has a lot of built-ins so I need to fill the shelf space. Plus I love the way it looks to have all of my games on a shelf. Far more satisfying than browsing a digital library. Personally I don't think it's such a big deal to stand up and swap discs. Especially because I am a monogamous gamer. I only play one game at a time so I'm not swapping much anyway.

I can see that being a positive for physical since you have the space and prefer it but my space is more limited and since I can game share I can share over 300 games with my family, it made the decision all the more easier. I'm largely a one game at a time kinda man too funny enough.
 

Parker Petrov

Member
Nov 1, 2017
452
If Microsoft will launch with two models for $249/299 and $449/499, they have a chances to gain such a good start. Of course if Sony is working only on one base console with higher price. And of course if Microsoft won't funked up anything and they will have a good day one/first months line-up. Much better than Xbox One and PS4 combined.

the low-end model could literally be an xbox one x with ryzen based cpu and that would be more than adequate. as the main place xbox one x struggles in currently is on the compute side. Ryzen based cpu should solve the compute problems even if its a weaker version then whatever the beast mode version contains.
 

Parker Petrov

Member
Nov 1, 2017
452
I can see that being a positive for physical since you have the space and prefer it but my space is more limited and since I can game share I can share over 300 games with my family, it made the decision all the more easier. I'm largely a one game at a time kinda man too funny enough.

The only system i still will buy games for physically is the switch. As there isn't really a good storage solution for a user who wants to go all digital.
 
Oct 26, 2017
8,992
It would save me having to re-purchase the higher tier console from the get go. There's clearly a distinct market for each console, capitalising on that is smart for MS imo.

Yeah I definitely see why they are doing this, but I just hope the buyers of the high end system won't be "sacrificed" for lack of a much better word that I can't think of right now. But I'm sure you understand me. Long story short the "true" next gen shouldn't be held back.
 

vorimenn

Banned
Jul 28, 2018
1,225
London, United Kingdom.
I also think HOW Microsoft will workout that whole hardware stuff.

Maverick | disc-less Xbox One (S) with Roma project (maybe with xCloud) | 2019, still supported after Holiday 2020 | $99?
Anthem | revised Xbox One S (with xCloud) | 2019, still supported after Holiday 2020 | $199?
Lockhart | Scarlett Arcade | next-gen successor of Xbox One S, hybrid (standard powered by xCloud) | 2020 | $299?
Anaconda | Scarlett Pro | next-gen successor of Xbox One X | 2020 | $499?

Hopefully they won't make any mess with them, because simple people who don't follow gaming industry could be cofused with that. Especially if Microsoft will keep continuity of Xbox One brand with new Scarlett line. They really have to do very smart, smooth and easily with accommodation on the market and to customers.
 

vorimenn

Banned
Jul 28, 2018
1,225
London, United Kingdom.
I'll say it again. Giving up the middle ground console to Sony is a mistake. They'll match Sony with price at $399 and make a beast console at $599.
$599 is too much.

If Sony will go with their "beast" as a direct competitor with specification to the highest model of new Xbox, as the latest rumours states, it would/will cost same price.

Also, if Sony will do only one console and this is possible, because they are somehow conservative in their approach to the things, Microsoft would have more chances to have bigger sales with Scarlett Arcade.
 

darthpaxton

Member
Jun 20, 2018
1,697
I'll say it again. Giving up the middle ground console to Sony is a mistake. They'll match Sony with price at $399 and make a beast console at $599.
I agree. The $300 console would seem like a "budget" option compared to the PS5 (assuming it's $399), especially if Microsoft also has a $100 streaming device. I think a $100 streaming device, a $400 "normal" Xbox, and a $600 "Ridiculous Bone-Crushing Beast" console may be the best bet.
 

UraMallas

Member
Nov 1, 2017
18,843
United States
$599 is too much.

If Sony will go with their "beast" as a direct competitor with specification to the highest model of new Xbox, as the latest rumours states, it would/will cost same price.

Also, if Sony will do only one console and this is possible, because they are somehow conservative in their approach to the things, Microsoft would have more chances to have bigger sales with Scarlett Arcade.


It's not too much. It would sell out immediately. I'm not entirely sure what you mean with your "beast" direct competitor rumor. Are you saying there is a rumor that Sony is also looking at making a second SKU for around $599? Because if that is the case it makes even more sense to do the $400/$600 model. There is no reason to give Sony an entire price point to themselves. It's a horrible idea. With a $300 console, you are sacrificing the power advantage at the base price point range. At $500 you are getting a marginally better console than the $400 PS5. People are used to the $400 price point right now. If Sony has $400 to themselves, it's a mistake. Full stop.

I agree. The $300 console would seem like a "budget" option compared to the PS5 (assuming it's $399), especially if Microsoft also has a $100 streaming device. I think a $100 streaming device, a $400 "normal" Xbox, and a $600 "Ridiculous Bone-Crushing Beast" console may be the best bet.

I don't know about the streaming but I think a cheaper option for the next holiday (2021) would be a safe bet. People that are buying these consoles in the first holiday aren't casual gamers. The gamers that are buying the first holiday are core gamers with money and core gamers on a budget. That's who these consoles should appeal to for the first year or so. An underpowered $300 and a slightly more powerful $500 console are folly, imo. Have the base model at $400 to go toe-to-toe with PS5 power-wise and a super console for $200 more.
 
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darthpaxton

Member
Jun 20, 2018
1,697
It's not too much. It would sell out immediately. I'm not entirely sure what you mean with your "beast" direct competitor rumor. Are you saying there is a rumor that Sony is also looking at making a second SKU for around $599? Because if that is the case it makes even more sense to do the $400/$600 model. There is no reason to give Sony an entire price point to themselves. It's a horrible idea. With a $300 console, you are sacrificing the power advantage at the base price point range. At $500 you are getting a marginally better console than the $400 PS5. People are used to the $400 price point right now. If Sony has $400 to themselves, it's a mistake. Full stop.
I think the other thing is the streaming box is going to be the "budget option." One of the things to think about when doing a family of devices is who is this device for? The $100 console is clearly for people who don't have the money for the full console or people who will buy a PS5 no matter what, but want to check out Xbox exclusives as cheaply as possible. The $400 console is for most gamers who want a native experience without worrying about streaming (either due to latency concerns or not having the internet capable of supporting streaming). The $600 console is for the gamer who absolutely wants the best experience and is willing to pay a premium.

Pricing a console at $300 doesn't really take sales away from a $400 PS5, in my opinion.Part of Microsoft's hurdle next-gen will be re-instilling confidence that they're capable of putting out consistently great games, so Sony will undoubtedly start with a built-in head-start. You're not working towards re-winning customers with an underpowered console. At the end of the day, Microsoft needs to wow people at the streaming level and the high-end to win market share.

The other side of the coin is I don't even think that Microsoft really cares what system people buy. They just want people in the ecosystem to buy services.
 

B.C.

Prophet of Regret
Banned
Sep 28, 2018
1,240
Where is the $600 price point coming from? MS would be nuts to release ANY hardware at that price point. People arent going to pay that much for a console. I defintiely wouldnt and I make pretty damn good money. At $600 I'd rather just get a PC that I can game, chop movies, create SPFX on. And I can't stand gaming on PC.
 

vorimenn

Banned
Jul 28, 2018
1,225
London, United Kingdom.
It's not too much. It would sell out immediately. I'm not entirely sure what you mean with your "beast" direct competitor rumor. Are you saying there is a rumor that Sony is also looking at making a second SKU for around $599? Because if that is the case it makes even more sense to do the $400/$600 model. There is no reason to give Sony an entire price point to themselves. It's a horrible idea. With a $300 console, you are sacrificing the power advantage at the base price point range. At $500 you are getting a marginally better console than the $400 PS5. People are used to the $400 price point right now. If Sony has $400 to themselves, it's a mistake. Full stop.
I'm saying that Sony probably is doing only one standard console which could stay directly next to Scarlett Pro. That's why Microsoft could have better and bigger sales with their two consoles variants with two good price tags.
 

SnatcherHunter

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
13,476
Where is the $600 price point coming from? MS would be nuts to release ANY hardware at that price point. People arent going to pay that much for a console. I defintiely wouldnt and I make pretty damn good money. At $600 I'd rather just get a PC that I can game, chop movies, create SPFX on. And I can't stand gaming on PC.
Agreed
I see a 500 Sku Anaconda
And maybe a 350-400 Sku for Lokehart. They just need to make sure Lockhart is cheaper than PS5.
 
I'd pay $600 for a console in a heartbeat if the power was there. I get that the market might not, but I'll take as much power in a console as I can get as I have no interest in PC gaming.

There is some pretty exciting stuff coming from Xbox, I have full confidence in Phil to make the right moves next gen.
 

Noble

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,680
What's the point of launching 2 Xbox One S revisions?

Spring 2019 - Discless Xbox One S
TBA 2019 - Xbox One S Revision (cheaper, XCloud, also discless?)
 

SpinierBlakeD

Attempted to circumvent ban with an alt account
Banned
Oct 28, 2018
1,353
Why do people think the next Xbox will launch with 2 SKU's but the PS5 won't? The Pro has been very successful for Sony. I don't see why they wouldn't go back to that well.
 

Ushay

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,347
I'll say it again. Giving up the middle ground console to Sony is a mistake. They'll match Sony with price at $399 and make a beast console at $599.
I'm not so sure. Having the best price and the best performing console at the same time is a sure strategy. The only thing they need is killer software to get the hardware out the gate.

Game Pass will only make the package even better.
 

Bradbatross

Member
Mar 17, 2018
14,195
I also think having the cheapest console and the most powerful console could be huge for Xbox's brand image. Even the people who buy the cheaper model can still feel confident in their purchase knowing they're buying the brand with the best hardware. They'll see how much of a monster the X is and know that they'll still get a taste of it with the S.
 

UraMallas

Member
Nov 1, 2017
18,843
United States
Having the cheapest console at launch means nothing, imo. These consoles, no matter the price, are going to sell out the first holiday. They won't be able to make enough of them. The core gamers would hypothetically see this in the scenario where MS doesn't compete at the same price/specs as Sony:

Scarlett X - $499
PS5 - $399
Scarlett S - $299

In that scenario, I don't see a lot of people wanting the lowest priced, underpowered system in that first year. Those gamers are going to want higher specs, SSD, more RAM, etc. They'll take the $299 system, but they wouldn't necessarily want it. On the other hand, in this hypothetical, Sony has SKU at retail at the middle 'sweet spot' price that core gamers have grown accustomed to paying and they'd sit there alone. There would be the marginally better $500 Scarlett X for sale, but who would be enticed to jump into a new ecosystem for marginally better? I'm talking about the people that have been gaming on PS4 this gen and might be swayed to a different console if the value proposition is there. For what you would get for $100 extra, I wonder how many would jump ship? I would bet not a whole lot. And at $100 less, how many budget-conscious core gamers would consider it enough of a value to jump ship? I would bet even less.

That first year or so, it's the core gamers buying the brand new consoles. Sandwiching the PS5 with marginally iterative products doesn't get you more of those initial 1st year gamers that are so crucial to mindshare for the whole gen. "$100 more, or $100 less? Meh, might as well stay with Sony." But, if you can make a truly incredibly $600 system that blows the PS5 out of the water you could see some people jump ship. You would also have the $400 system that would compete blow-for-blow with the PS5 at $400 for budget-conscious Xbox One owners so they don't jump ship the other way. I would even hazard a guess MS would take a loss on those consoles to make sure they are slightly more powerful than whatever Sony makes.
 

litebrite

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
21,832
600 dollar price point works as an option as a SKU for hardcore enthusiasts, if the base models is around parity of power and price of the PS5, likely $400.
 

UraMallas

Member
Nov 1, 2017
18,843
United States
If they have price-parity with the PS5 (which I think is incredibly likely) they still have the Gamepass value-add where new adopters into the ecosystem don't need to even buy Halo Infinite, KI2, FM8, etc. So, if someone is looking for value, it would still be best to compete at the direct price point of the PS5 instead of putting an underperfoming box to market against the PS5 sweet spot console. There should not be a MS console on the market at launch that has any sort of power disadvantage to the PS5 equivalent. Giving them the $400 price point alone is crazy, imo.
 

litebrite

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
21,832
If they have price-parity with the PS5 (which I think is incredibly likely) they still have the Gamepass value-add where new adopters into the ecosystem don't need to even buy Halo Infinite, KI2, FM8, etc. So, if someone is looking for value, it would still be best to compete at the direct price point of the PS5 instead of putting an underperfoming box to market against the PS5 sweet spot console. There should not be a MS console on the market at launch that has any sort of power disadvantage to the PS5 equivalent. Giving them the $400 price point alone is crazy, imo.
Agreed.
 

UraMallas

Member
Nov 1, 2017
18,843
United States
I think this is too low for the base option. I think the base PS5 will be $499.

I was going to bring that up but didn't want to muddy the waters of my point. This next console generation might see a jump in 'base' model pricing to $499. If that is the case, it makes it less likely you would see a $200 add for the premium Scarlett. In fact, it might be the opposite case where you see a $300 budget system, although I'd still want to make a case that they should do the premium instead, it is not as strong of a case in this scenario. A $300 budget system with specs similar/slightly better than One X does line up with the rumor that started all this, though...
 

Super Havoc

Banned
Aug 24, 2018
1,771
The Haven
I was going to bring that up but didn't want to muddy the waters of my point. This next console generation might see a jump in 'base' model pricing to $499. If that is the case, it makes it less likely you would see a $200 add for the premium Scarlett. In fact, it might be the opposite case where you see a $300 budget system, although I'd still want to make a case that they should do the premium instead, it is not as strong of a case in this scenario. A $300 budget system with specs similar/slightly better than One X does line up with the rumor that started all this, though...


If MS could manage such a price for that much power they'd be in a ridiculously great position next gen. I would personally go for the $599 beast if it was far more powerful truth be told.
 

mikefizzled

Member
Jan 8, 2018
189
Honestly I think Microsoft will prove just how committed they are to gaming and have the new Xbox base model will sell at a 0 profit or at loss unlike the pro which will make a profit to offset the higher investment from them. They've proven that as a company they are aggressively committed to long term revenue streams. The average user may pick up the new console, 2 games and a controller. The new users or those who skipped Xbox will be their real targets as they'll entice them with an already stacked catalogue with Game Pass and the mammoth income for Microsoft that is Xbox Live Gold. There's no point in them investing so heavily in Game Pass if people aren't interested in buying the console because of the upfront cost. I don't think Sony would match such an aggressive tactic because currently they don't need to, they've got the market share and the mindset.
 

UraMallas

Member
Nov 1, 2017
18,843
United States
If MS could manage such a price for that much power they'd be in a ridiculously great position next gen. I would personally go for the $599 beast if it was far more powerful truth be told.

Maybe if they get a lot of Gamepass subs, they can eat some of that initial cost to make a beast console come in at $600. I dunno. But, if the base consoles are $500, you'd have to really put something under the hood to show a sizable difference.
 
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