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Microsoft Studios (& Partners) Current and Future Landscape

Should we move to a new OT?

  • Yes

    Votes: 86 21.9%
  • No

    Votes: 80 20.4%
  • Wait until a couple weeks before E3

    Votes: 226 57.7%

  • Total voters
    392
  • Poll closed .
Status
Not open for further replies.

Rychu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,326
Utah, USA
*scrolls through this page of posts*

Let's discuss something important -

Where the hell is my State of Decay 2 info and gameplay videos that were rumored to be shown this week??? Anyone know if anything will be shown soon or just no info yet? Thanks.
Hey, you see this? Just posted couple hours ago.

We getting something tomorrow January 19!
 

litebrite

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,381
I was just playing Jet Force Gemini on Rare Replay for the first time, now that's a franchise you could also reboot to be a Triple AAA, cinematic, story driven TPS, action adventure Space Opera game
 

LoyalPhoenix

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,766
I also agree that Microsoft should just buy them. It should definitely increase consumer confidence knowing that two PG studios will be making games for the next Xbox.
Who is to say they arent already, they have spoken multiple times how happy they are doing Horizon. They will probably find the same support with Fable. They could be contracted for like 3 fable games if this one is a success.
 

LoyalPhoenix

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,766
I was just playing Jet Force Gemini on Rare Replay for the first time, now that's a franchise you could also reboot to be a Triple AAA, cinematic, story driven TPS, action adventure Space Opera game
I wouldnt mind a reboot, idea is cool but the art is so 90's and even then outdated that they would have to do a reboot or a "successor" to the old one.
 

LoyalPhoenix

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,766
I think they are going to announce a State of Decay 2 beta tomorrow, Why else would they say "a very important call to action. We need your help" that along with Phil saying they want to have beta's after the disaster that was MCC. Its happening boys!
 

Rychu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,326
Utah, USA
Who is to say they arent already, they have spoken multiple times how happy they are doing Horizon. They will probably find the same support with Fable. They could be contracted for like 3 fable games if this one is a success.
I think Microsoft will do what they did with Undead Labs and SoD, multi-game contract instead of buying. It’s cheaper to contract than it is to buy and manage a studio. I would also personally prefer them to build new studios to work on old abandoned IP.

If Playground Games is bought by Microsoft, they turn into a Forza Horizon and Fable factory, which is a waste of investment. I would prefer if they continued contracting Playground Games because it’s cheaper and they can focus on either building new studios or acquiring a studio that’s worth the investment (and not a factory focused on one IP).

But so, Microsoft has dozens and dozens of IP (Banjo, Blinx, Phantom Dust, Crimson Skies, the list goes on and on and on...) and also they have IP for cancelled games like Scalebound.

This may be an unpopular opinion but Shannon Loftis’s team can fund new IP from third party studios (and make sure they own the IP as well so we don’t get situations where a publisher can decide to make games multiplatform because dev has IP) whereas Phil Spencer and Matt Booty can make studios that create revivals of franchises. So this would be like the old Xbox and Xbox 360 owned IP but basically rebooted into something AAA, great and modern. As well as reviving dead IP like Scalebound (but maybe don’t do this until 5-6 years after Fable comes out)
 

LoyalPhoenix

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,766
and not a factory focused on one IP
I actually think they are slowly getting away from that. Rare is doing new IP pretty much only from the sound of a couple rumors. Playground has just gone from Forza only to Forza AND Fable. The Coalition has done Gears4, helped with PUBG and the rumored PD along with a "new ip" coming from them although apparently that has to do with PD even tho its not a new ip idk its weird.
They have since removed the page so here is a screenshot.

Only ones really left that are a one franchise focus are Turn 10 which does Forza and 343i although they not only make the games but handle everything Halo.
 

Synth

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,795
I wouldnt mind a reboot, idea is cool but the art is so 90's and even then outdated that they would have to do a reboot or a "successor" to the old one.
Basically everything Rare did in the 90s has aged horrifically art-wise. I don't think it'd be too difficult to update the style of Jet Force Gemini to something that would be appealing today, whilst still being recognisable as Jet Force Gemini.

Take Killer Instinct for example. There's basically nothing more 90s looking in existence. Then compare Maya in KI2 with the same character in KI2013:



You just need to be able to see through the 90s filter to reveal what the designs would be otherwise.
 

Chettlar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,444
lol guys don't you know the coalition was designed to just milk gears to death, remember, cuz microsoft killed their new IP (and their families and dogs), and said NO gears of war only, you can never leave this sweatshop.
 

LoyalPhoenix

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,766
Basically everything Rare did in the 90s has aged horrifically art-wise. I don't think it'd be too difficult to update the style of Jet Force Gemini to something that would be appealing today, whilst still being recognisable as Jet Force Gemini.

Take Killer Instinct for example. There's basically nothing more 90s looking in existence. Then compare Maya in KI2 with the same character in KI2013:



You just need to be able to see through the 90s filter to reveal what the designs would be otherwise.
only things that have really aged is DK Country,Banjo,Conker and thats kinda it tbh. Totally agree tho a modern JFG could look damn cool. I dont know how open MS would be to yet another space shooter tho. they already have one and also already have a 3rd person shooter
 

Gearsmith

Permanently banned for usage of an alt-account.
Member
Jan 16, 2018
102
Maya looks like a modern day Beyonce and I'm cool with that.
 

Synth

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,795
only things that have really aged is DK Country,Banjo,Conker and thats kinda it tbh. Totally agree tho a modern JFG could look damn cool. I dont know how open MS would be to yet another space shooter tho. they already have one and also already have a 3rd person shooter
Personally I wouldn't even agree that DKC aged well. The primitive 3d models to sprites stuff from the late 16bit to early 32bit gens look pretty bad across the board to me.

Banjo and Conker hold up decently visually though.
 

Rychu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,326
Utah, USA
I actually think they are slowly getting away from that. Rare is doing new IP pretty much only from the sound of a couple rumors. Playground has just gone from Forza only to Forza AND Fable. The Coalition has done Gears4, helped with PUBG and the rumored PD along with a "new ip" coming from them although apparently that has to do with PD even tho its not a new ip idk its weird.
They have since removed the page so here is a screenshot.

Only ones really left that are a one franchise focus are Turn 10 which does Forza and 343i although they not only make the games but handle everything Halo.
The Coalition is still a Gears factory. The Perfect Dark leak specifically said that The Coalition wasn’t doing PD alone, probably meaning it’s just a small support team helping on it. IGN said they think the “new IP” thing was a mistake that meant “an IP that isn’t Gears” meaning new to them but not exactly a new IP. They are only a motion capture studio and probably didn’t fully understand what new IP meant because they don’t develop games.

Phil Spencer said he’s going to be working with Matt Booty to build new studios and acquire studios. So I think those 3 studios will stay as factories and the new studios won’t be factories.
 

Dragonelite

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
544
Who is to say they arent already, they have spoken multiple times how happy they are doing Horizon. They will probably find the same support with Fable. They could be contracted for like 3 fable games if this one is a success.
Maybe they are already on paper contracted for next gen systems. But we as consumer never will have confirmation. That is why I said that if Microsoft announces they bought playground it should increase consumer confidence that there will be more games
 

LoyalPhoenix

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,766
The Perfect Dark leak specifically said that The Coalition wasn’t doing PD alone
yeah I dont think they are doing it alone, which is why i kinda bunch it with PUBG as they helped get the game feel as normal as possible on a controller.

Having them become kind of a "support" studio like that is in a good direction for the most part, as long as it doesn't take away from the next project. They also mention in that interview if I am remembering correctly that they will also be expanding current studios (which although they dont own Playground explains the huge increase in expected employees as they throw more money into the project), Rare is also always hiring at this point it seems. Wouldn't be surprised if it spreads to the other 3.
 

Rychu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,326
Utah, USA
I actually think they are slowly getting away from that. Rare is doing new IP pretty much only from the sound of a couple rumors. Playground has just gone from Forza only to Forza AND Fable. The Coalition has done Gears4, helped with PUBG and the rumored PD along with a "new ip" coming from them although apparently that has to do with PD even tho its not a new ip idk its weird.
They have since removed the page so here is a screenshot.

Only ones really left that are a one franchise focus are Turn 10 which does Forza and 343i although they not only make the games but handle everything Halo.
I also want to point out that the only reason Playground Games is making Fable is because Playground Games wanted to build a second studio to make an RPG and Microsoft gave them Fable. Microsoft would never for example split Turn10 into two studios. That was an independent choice that wouldn’t of happened if Microsoft owned Playground Games and Playground Games was the Forza Horizon studio.

Also literally the only thing that gigantic team at Mojang does is make new updates for Minecraft. And even then, they have other teams (that aren’t Mojang) helping them create content for those updates.

Meaning Microsoft’s only OWNED studio that isn’t locked to a franchise is Rare. Only stating facts.

I really hope things go as Phil Spencer said and they make a lot of new studios and acquire studios in the next few years. (I would like to see some sort of announcement about this THIS year but I’ll give them a few years)
 

Rychu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,326
Utah, USA
yeah I dont think they are doing it alone, which is why i kinda bunch it with PUBG as they helped get the game feel as normal as possible on a controller.

Having them become kind of a "support" studio like that is in a good direction for the most part, as long as it doesn't take away from the next project. They also mention in that interview if I am remembering correctly that they will also be expanding current studios (which although they dont own Playground explains the huge increase in expected employees as they throw more money into the project), Rare is also always hiring at this point it seems. Wouldn't be surprised if it spreads to the other 3.
Expanding studios does not translate into splitting studios into multiple teams to work on projects and I still take that as positive PR spinning. I take that as “we will hire more people for all of our studios”. But we shall see.
 

LoyalPhoenix

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,766
That is why I said that if Microsoft announces they bought playground it should increase consumer confidence that there will be more games
true but I dont think that the money needed for that for the confidence it brings is worth it. At this point the vast majority probably think Playground is first party, like how people thought Insomniac was 1st party until SO and now back with Ratchet and Spidey. Quantic Dream is also like that, at this point they may as well be PS4 only since they have been doing that since there last game on xbox in like 2005.
 

Rychu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,326
Utah, USA
true but I dont think that the money needed for that for the confidence it brings is worth it. At this point the vast majority probably think Playground is first party, like how people thought Insomniac was 1st party until SO and now back with Ratchet and Spidey. Quantic Dream is also like that, at this point they may as well be PS4 only since they have been doing that since there last game on xbox in like 2005.
I do want to note though that I think Microsoft should either purchase Armature Studios or contract them for a ReCore 2. Because even though the game got slammed for being low budget, mediocre, I really enjoyed the combat, I thought it was a unique concept (the corebots) and I really want to see what a ReCore 2 with AAA budget, more time and more polish would look like. I want more ReCore. It’s a game I feel like deserves a full trilogy (with the sequels being way higher budget of course)

But please, don’t make the entire game a sand wasteland. The first game needed some color.
 
Last edited:

litebrite

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,381
Basically everything Rare did in the 90s has aged horrifically art-wise. I don't think it'd be too difficult to update the style of Jet Force Gemini to something that would be appealing today, whilst still being recognisable as Jet Force Gemini.

Take Killer Instinct for example. There's basically nothing more 90s looking in existence. Then compare Maya in KI2 with the same character in KI2013:



You just need to be able to see through the 90s filter to reveal what the designs would be otherwise.
Basically.

They could even update it and maintain it's cartoony aesthetic to something like a sci fi Sea of Thieves.
 

LoyalPhoenix

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,766
I do want to note though that I think Microsoft should either purchase Armature Studios or contract them for a ReCore 2. Because even though the game got slammed for being low budget, mediocre, I really enjoyed the combat, I thought it was a unique concept (the corebots) and I really want to see what a ReCore 2 with AAA budget, more time and more polish would look like. I want more ReCore. It’s a game I feel like deserves a full trilogy (with the sequels being way higher budget of course)

But please, don’t make the entire game a sand wasteland. The first game needed some color.
I also hope for a ReCore 2. Hey if we got Halo Wars 2 and Age of Empires 4 at this point anything is possible I feel like lmao
 

daTRUballin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,030
Portland, Oregon
Basically everything Rare did in the 90s has aged horrifically art-wise. I don't think it'd be too difficult to update the style of Jet Force Gemini to something that would be appealing today, whilst still being recognisable as Jet Force Gemini.

Take Killer Instinct for example. There's basically nothing more 90s looking in existence. Then compare Maya in KI2 with the same character in KI2013:



You just need to be able to see through the 90s filter to reveal what the designs would be otherwise.
Personally, I find that it’s usually the concept art from Rare’s 90’s games that haven’t aged well. The characters look totally fine in-game. Compare Jet Force Gemini’s creepy ass promotional art to what they look in-game. Or even Killer Instinct. Their 90’s awkwardness isn’t as noticeable in the actual gameplay.

In some cases, even the promotional art looked fine too though, like DKC or Banjo Kazooie.
 
Jan 4, 2018
902
MS is definitely going to invest in the mobile space, nothing about first party "memes" is going to avoid that. They have talked about their need to expand in that market for the past year, so don't be surprised if the first studio or partner they announce could be a mobile project.
I for one won’t be against mobile games using the avatars
 

ZhugeEX

Senior Analyst at Niko Partners
Administrator
Oct 24, 2017
3,002
Been wanting to make this post for a while now.

The Xbox team is currently using the budget they have to invest in a number of key areas starting from 2017/18. These areas are.
- Microsoft Games Publishing
- Digital Ecosystem
- Windows 10 x Xbox

I should note that a lot of the investment going on now is something that will be fully reflected in the 'next generation' (whatever that actually means). What this means, in the case of something like the recently rumored Fable 4 game for example, is that i wouldn't expect projects like that to release for quite some time. However, any initiatives that you do see hit in 2018 / 2019 are an indication of what Microsoft is planning for the 'next generation'.

So the first point is that Microsoft are looking into using the budget they have to invest in new projects (both first party and external) to bring them to Xbox in the future. Whilst there will be a couple of surprise games this generation, the majority of projects in the works or planned are going to be a while out. There will still be a live service focus across all of their big games of course.

The second point regarding digital ecosystem concerns services like Xbox Live, Xbox Games Pass, Mixer etc... You're going to see a lot more focus on those services moving forward and integration into the Xbox games / services ecosystem. In fact, there is a very big announcement that we should see next week that will give you an indication of how Microsoft intends to treat digital games in the future.

The third point is continued investment in both the Windows 10 and Xbox ecosystem to create one unified Xbox platform. Initiatives like Play Anywhere and a single store are examples of that. Integration should go even further in the future.

The above is going to be a slow process and you'll see results starting from this year through to 'next gen'. That being said, don't expect this to mean Microsoft will have 100 first party games and all your dreams will come true. They're still working within the resources they have.
 

CalamityPixel

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,869
Been wanting to make this post for a while now.

The Xbox team is currently using the budget they have to invest in a number of key areas starting from 2017/18. These areas are.
- Microsoft Games Publishing
- Digital Ecosystem
- Windows 10 x Xbox

I should note that a lot of the investment going on now is something that will be fully reflected in the 'next generation' (whatever that actually means). What this means, in the case of something like the recently rumored Fable 4 game for example, is that you shouldn't expect that project and other similar projects to release for quite some time. However, any initiatives that you do see hit in 2018 / 2019 are an indication of what Microsoft is planning for the 'next generation'.

So the first point is that Microsoft are looking into using the budget they have to invest in new projects (both first party and external) to bring them to Xbox in the future. Whilst there will be a couple of surprise games this generation, the majority of projects in the works or planned are going to be a while out. There will still be a live service focus across all of their games of course.

The second point regarding digital ecosystem concerns services like Xbox Live, Xbox Games Pass, Mixer etc... You're going to see a lot more focus on those services moving forward and integration into the Xbox games / services ecosystem. In fact, there is a very big announcement that we should see next week that will give you an indication of how Microsoft intends to treat digital games in the future.

The third point is continued investment in both the Windows 10 and Xbox ecosystem to create one unified Xbox platform. Initiatives like Play Anywhere and a single store are examples of that. Integration should go even further in the future.

The above is going to be a slow process and you'll see results starting from this year through to 'next gen'. That being said, don't expect this to mean Microsoft will have 100 first party games and all your dreams will come true. They're still working within the resources they have.
Great post. I wonder what the announcement next week will be.
 

Synth

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,795
Personally, I find that it’s usually the concept art from Rare’s 90’s games that haven’t aged well. The characters look totally fine in-game. Compare Jet Force Gemini’s creepy ass promotional art to what they look in-game. Or even Killer Instinct. Their 90’s awkwardness isn’t as noticeable in the actual gameplay.

In some cases, even the promotional art looked fine too though, like DKC or Banjo Kazooie.
I tend to find it to be either one, the other or both simultaneously. Stuff like DKC I don't like mostly for the technical choices, others the designs themselves just look bad, like Battletoads and Grabbed by the Ghoulies. In cases like Killer Instinct, it's both.

The N64 era stuff looks better ingame though as a result of the poly-limitation bringing the designs more in line with other NIntendo properties.
 
Oct 25, 2017
512
Canada
Great write up, Zhuge.
In fact, there is a very big announcement that we should see next week that will give you an indication of how Microsoft intends to treat digital games in the future.
I'm intrigued. My first thought is some sort of digital games trade in, or maybe the return of the original game sharing feature they had planned? I guess we'll see soon enough.
 
Jan 4, 2018
902
Hahaha I’ve been advocating for this for a long time. Get MP outside Gold and all Gold advantages (GwG, DwG, cloud saves...) integrated to Game Pass for it’s actual price. I won’t mind paying some more money for access to GP catalogue, but I won’t pay it as it’s now since I already own the vast majority of GP’s games I might feel inclined to play
 

daTRUballin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,030
Portland, Oregon
I tend to find it to be either one, the other or both simultaneously. Stuff like DKC I don't like mostly for the technical choices, others the designs themselves just look bad, like Battletoads and Grabbed by the Ghoulies. In cases like Killer Instinct, it's both.

The N64 era stuff looks better ingame though as a result of the poly-limitation bringing the designs more in line with other NIntendo properties.
Everybody has their own opinions, I suppose.

Their post-Nintendo human character designs have been pretty awful though. I’m not one of those that criticizes Rare’s art and character design like a lot of people do, but their human characters ever since PDZ have been pretty bad. Seems like they used the same PDZ style for the characters in Kinect Sports Rivals and Sea of Thieves. Ugh. Why, Rare?
 

christocolus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,341
Been wanting to make this post for a while now.

The Xbox team is currently using the budget they have to invest in a number of key areas starting from 2017/18. These areas are.
- Microsoft Games Publishing
- Digital Ecosystem
- Windows 10 x Xbox

I should note that a lot of the investment going on now is something that will be fully reflected in the 'next generation' (whatever that actually means). What this means, in the case of something like the recently rumored Fable 4 game for example, is that you shouldn't expect that project and other similar projects to release for quite some time. However, any initiatives that you do see hit in 2018 / 2019 are an indication of what Microsoft is planning for the 'next generation'.

So the first point is that Microsoft are looking into using the budget they have to invest in new projects (both first party and external) to bring them to Xbox in the future. Whilst there will be a couple of surprise games this generation, the majority of projects in the works or planned are going to be a while out. There will still be a live service focus across all of their big games of course.

The second point regarding digital ecosystem concerns services like Xbox Live, Xbox Games Pass, Mixer etc... You're going to see a lot more focus on those services moving forward and integration into the Xbox games / services ecosystem. In fact, there is a very big announcement that we should see next week that will give you an indication of how Microsoft intends to treat digital games in the future.

The third point is continued investment in both the Windows 10 and Xbox ecosystem to create one unified Xbox platform. Initiatives like Play Anywhere and a single store are examples of that. Integration should go even further in the future.

The above is going to be a slow process and you'll see results starting from this year through to 'next gen'. That being said, don't expect this to mean Microsoft will have 100 first party games and all your dreams will come true. They're still working within the resources they have.
Interesting.
 

Synth

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,795
Everybody has their own opinions, I suppose.

Their post-Nintendo human character designs have been pretty awful though. I’m not one of those that criticizes Rare’s art like a lot of people do, but their human characters ever since PDZ have been pretty bad. Seems like they used the same PDZ style for the characters in Kinect Sports Rivals and Sea of Thieves. Ugh.
I actually didn't mind how the characters looked in Kinect Sports Rivals, despite hating how humans look in Perfect Dark Zero and thinking everyone looks ugly as sin in Sea of Thieves (though it feels more like a deliberate choice and understandable for that game). I don't really see each of them as having the same look tbh. I kinda liked the more cartoonish human-ish designs for Kameo and Viva Pinata though.In fact Viva Pinata is what I consider to be the most appealing looking Rare game.
 

daTRUballin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,030
Portland, Oregon
I actually didn't mind how the characters looked in Kinect Sports Rivals, despite hating how humans look in Perfect Dark Zero and thinking everyone looks ugly as sin in Sea of Thieves (though it feels more like a deliberate choice and understandable for that game). I don't really see each of them as having the same look tbh. I kinda liked the more cartoonish human-ish designs for Kameo and Viva Pinata though.In fact Viva Pinata is what I consider to be the most appealing looking Rare game.
I’m surprised you didn’t seem to like the art style in Grabbed by the Ghoulies. Or were you just talking about character design specifically? I thought GbtG had an interesting style, what with the cel-shading and stuff. Felt like a mixture of Wind Waker and other Rare games.
 

Xumbrega

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,577
Brasil
Been wanting to make this post for a while now.

The Xbox team is currently using the budget they have to invest in a number of key areas starting from 2017/18. These areas are.
- Microsoft Games Publishing
- Digital Ecosystem
- Windows 10 x Xbox

I should note that a lot of the investment going on now is something that will be fully reflected in the 'next generation' (whatever that actually means). What this means, in the case of something like the recently rumored Fable 4 game for example, is that you shouldn't expect that project and other similar projects to release for quite some time. However, any initiatives that you do see hit in 2018 / 2019 are an indication of what Microsoft is planning for the 'next generation'.

So the first point is that Microsoft are looking into using the budget they have to invest in new projects (both first party and external) to bring them to Xbox in the future. Whilst there will be a couple of surprise games this generation, the majority of projects in the works or planned are going to be a while out. There will still be a live service focus across all of their big games of course.

The second point regarding digital ecosystem concerns services like Xbox Live, Xbox Games Pass, Mixer etc... You're going to see a lot more focus on those services moving forward and integration into the Xbox games / services ecosystem. In fact, there is a very big announcement that we should see next week that will give you an indication of how Microsoft intends to treat digital games in the future.

The third point is continued investment in both the Windows 10 and Xbox ecosystem to create one unified Xbox platform. Initiatives like Play Anywhere and a single store are examples of that. Integration should go even further in the future.

The above is going to be a slow process and you'll see results starting from this year through to 'next gen'. That being said, don't expect this to mean Microsoft will have 100 first party games and all your dreams will come true. They're still working within the resources they have.

Nice, hopefully Microsoft will gain some momentum this year, we need the big three to be as healthy as it can.


Thanks for the information Zhuge, I'm looking forward to the announcement next week =)
 

Synth

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,795
I’m surprised you didn’t seem to like the art style in Grabbed by the Ghoulies. Or were you just talking about character design specifically? I thought GbtG had an interesting style, what with the cel-shading and stuff. Felt like a mixture of Wind Waker and other Rare games.
Yea, It was mostly the character designs in that one. I can kinda imagine the main character slipping into ReBoot and just kinda blending in with the mess of that world, lol.
 

Bits N Pieces

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,593
Scotland
This thread continues to surprise, nice write up Zhuge.

After lots of people saying that the Xbox budget was stagnating is it safe to assume after Phil's promotion to the top table that the Xbox budget has been increased? Also wonder if this news next week is to do with giving us the ability to sell the license back to them for any digital purchases we make? That could be massive.
 

Synth

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,795
I'm assuming the announcement is Gamepass related, since Zhuge was asking in the discord chat whether it works on Win10 or not.
 
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