Microsoft Studios (& Partners) Current and Future Landscape

Xumbrega · Feb 17, 2018

JINX said:
Crackdown has to be finished at Sumo, there is no way they are drastically overhauling the game and they aren't big enough to be developing that many projects if it's not finished. Dead island 2 is still a secret project, this isn't Yager or Dambuster, the partnership announcement doesn't change that. Only one thing on that document has to be secret for that label, clearly one of the FPS's is Project Nova that is already announced yet it's in that slide. There is no way that one of those FPS's isn't project Nova because Sumo isn't that big, so therefore it being Dead Island doesn't change the secret labelling. Again the rumoured Perfect Dark is third person not first.

This presentation is from last year, of course Crackdown 3 wasn't finished finished, lol.

You know that these positions are senior positions, right? The development is picking up NOW, and Sumo is 400+, they are perfectly capable of doing Sonic Kart, Perfect Dark, Dead Island and the Project Nova.

No, it's not, klobrille saw a third-person aim, he never claimed that Perfect Dark was TPS, lol.

This could be anything, like this:

I mean, even on PDZ the gameplay shifts to third person on cover mode, so a new Perfect Dark would do the same thing.

There's no way they are putting Dead Island 2 and Deep Silver as unannounced partners and game, since they were already revealed.

Dyashen · Feb 17, 2018

Xumbrega said:
This could be anything, like this:

Never thought it that way. Also, Perfect Dark Zero had (sort of) cover mechanics and then you'd be in third person aim.

Xumbrega · Feb 17, 2018

Slicer Dyster said:
Never thought it that way. Also, Perfect Dark Zero had (sort of) cover mechanics and then you'd be in third person aim.

Yeah, just remembered that and put on the post lol.

JINX · Feb 17, 2018

Xumbrega said:
This presentation is from last year, of course Crackdown 3 wasn't finished finished, lol.

You know that these positions are senior positions, right? The development is picking up NOW, and Sumo is 400+, they are perfectly capable of doing Sonic Kart, Perfect Dark, Dead Island and the Project Nova.

No, it's not, Krobille saw a third-person aim, he never claimed that Perfect Dark was TPS, lol.

This could be anything, like this:

There's no way they are putting Dead Island 2 and Deep Silver as unannounced partners and game, since they were already revealed.

450 people making multiple AAA projects? The slides were from 2017, Crackdown 3 and Sumo's work on the project was due to be finished when it was suppose to release. Project Nova is the multi collaboration project as it's not original, CCP is working on it. That leaves Sonic kart and Dead island, they are not big enough for anymore. The senior positions would be for Project Nova, so Klobrille saw only a third person aim in a primarily FPS game. He didn't see any FPS aim reticle? Klobrille said he was most confident in the first projects he talked about. Do you really think going through the files of a primarily FPS game you would only find a TPS reticle, the ones he was most confident of. (of course as Klobrille stated don't take anything about these projects as fact until announced.) Not to mention the outsourcing and original projects they would be doing alongside these projects, it's incredibly unrealistic.

EDIT: Not to mention your idea of these projects being developed alongside an unfinished CD3, makes them more unrealistic.

Xumbrega · Feb 17, 2018

JINX said:
450 people making multiple AAA projects? The slides were from 2017, Crackdown 3 and Sumo's work on the project was due to be finished when it was suppose to release. Project Nova is the multi collaboration project as it's not original, CCP is working on it. That leaves Sonic kart and Dead island, they are not big enough for anymore. The senior positions would be for Project Nova, so Klobrille saw only a third person aim in a primarily FPS game. He didn't see any FPS aim reticle? Klobrille said he was most confident in the first projects he talked about. Do you really think going through the files of a primarily FPS game you would only find a TPS reticle, the ones he was most confident of. (of course as Klobrille stated don't take anything about these projects as fact until announced.) Not to mention the outsourcing and original projects they would be doing alongside these projects, it's incredibly unrealistic.

EDIT: Not to mention your idea of these projects being developed alongside an unfinished CD3, makes them more unrealistic.

Eh, we agree to disagree, this is going nowhere.

We don't know how many developers were working on Crackdown 3, since they were only developing the campaign.

And we also don't know how many developers are working on Perfect Dark, since Coalition is helping the developer as well.

They have 4 studios right now, with the newest, Nottingham being opened in March 2016.

JINX · Feb 17, 2018

Xumbrega said:
Eh, we agree to disagree, this is going nowhere.

You clearly think that 450 people can go far further than what other studios in the industry would lead us to believe, we disagree on that for sure. Though we are making points about a game that might not even be happening lol, I would personally love Karl Hilton to be heading up development of a new PD. But everything leads me to believe otherwise, I'm putting my bet on Certain Affinity (though certain things make it unlikely.)

Klobrille · Feb 17, 2018

Three things:

As I said already I couldn't find out the devs. All I found was a The Coalition reference. This could be anything though - from shared UE4 basic assets to actual help. That said, it is completely ruled out they are developing PD. The Coalition is Gears. That's their franchise. They are probably helping with a few employees in terms of controls and things like that - similar like they did with PUBG.
There definitely is a chance it turns out to be a FPS and all I found was TPS segments or something like that. I can't search through thousands of folders and sessions logs. That's impossible. I can be wrong on interpreting details not correctly. As I said already I can't simply access a text file which tells me "Hey we are Sumo Digital, we are working on a new Perfect Dark fps and it's coming in 2021". If it only would be that easy. I tried to be open about my findings and getting the puzzle pieces together. Things change. Things get cancelled. Things may end up being completely different. That's how this industry works really.
Based on folders, connection sessions and general size it's super early.

JINX · Feb 17, 2018

Klobrille said:
Three things:

As I said already I couldn't find out the devs. All I found was a The Coalition reference. This could be anything though - from shared UE4 basic assets to actual help. That said, it is completely ruled out they are developing PD. The Coalition is Gears. That's their franchise. They are probably helping with a few employees in terms of controls and things like that - similar like they did with PUBG.

There definitely is a chance it turns out to be a FPS and all I found was TPS segments or something like that. I can't search through thousands of folders and sessions logs. That's impossible. I can be wrong on interpreting details not correctly. As I said already I can't simply access a text file which tells me "Hey we are Sumo Digital, we are working on a new Perfect Dark fps and it's coming in 2021". If it only would be that easy. I tried to be open about my findings and getting the puzzle pieces together.

Based on folders, connection sessions and general size it's super early.

Thanks for the extra info Klobrille, sounds like it could be a next gen title then. Hopefully we get a few surprises this gen, but in-line with Zhuge's points it looks like an investment for the future. If it gets past the early stages that is, usually the amount of titles planned for a next generation get cut down towards launch.

Startropper · Feb 17, 2018

https://twitter.com/aarongreenberg/status/957317109679243264

Old tweet but hadn't seen it mentioned. SOT then SOD2. Curiously Greenberg doesn't mention Crackdown 3.

I'm thinking it got pushed out of spring.

Klobrille · Feb 17, 2018

Alright. Because this is fun. Let's have a look at Sumo Digital.

According their own website, Sumo Digital today has 480 developers across its four studios. They have UK studios in Sheffield, Nottingham, Newcastle and Pune, India.

We know they are working on:

Crackdown 3 singleplayer (guess: approx. 100 devs)
Dead Island 2 (guess: approx. 100 devs)
Unannounced kart game (prob. Sonic Racing, approx. 100 devs)
Project Nova (only helping, so guess: approx. 50 devs)
Unannounced FPS on an established global IP (approx. 130 devs left)

Sadly it's difficult to find out which studio is working on a concrete project.

One job offer caught my eye:

We have an exciting Lead Programmer opportunity working in Unreal 4 on a large, undisclosed AAA project currently in pre-production.

https://careers-sumo-digital.icims.com/jobs/1014/lead-programmer---sumo-sheffield/job

This can only be the unannounced FPS. So an established global IP on UE4. And it currently is in pre-production.

Then there is this for the same studio/project:

Sumo is looking for a highly talented and creative Senior Character Artist to join an experienced and passionate team in delivering an exciting AAA title. Focussing on driving quality through example this is an opportunity for those who want to leave their mark on an already established, multi-million selling franchise.

Desirable:
• UE4 experience
• Hard surface modelling experience
• FPS character art creation

https://careers-sumo-digital.icims.com/jobs/1248/senior-character-artist---sumo-sheffield/job

This is a fantastic opportunity to influence, define and manage the character pipeline of a large, genre-defining AAA console title

https://careers-sumo-digital.icims.com/jobs/1178/senior-technical-animator---sumo-sheffield/job

Desirable skills and experience:

Experience of designing and integrating puzzles into your levels

https://careers-sumo-digital.icims.com/jobs/1268/level-designers---sumo-sheffield/job

We are looking for enthusiastic and experienced programmers to join the Sumo Nottingham and Sumo Sheffield teams to assist with development of existing console and Windows based projects.

https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/view/...ob_result_click&lici=jzZ/JRqHRHa/gBzkVlK9UA==

With that it is safe to assume Sumo Sheffield is working on the unknown fps based on an established global IP. Nothing I found would exclude Perfect Dark.

Perfect Dark was genre-defining.
You need puzzles in a stealth game.
UE4
Pre-production
Console + Windows

In theory it could be it. I'm not saying it is ... But maybe.

CalamityPixel · Feb 17, 2018

I'm hoping it is perfect dark. The current team there would be perfect for it.

Using this post to say that Sumo runs a devs and drink session in Sheffield every couple of months. If your local feel free to come have a drink as the whole Sheff scene usually makes an appearence :)

JINX · Feb 17, 2018

Sumo's previous team sizes as well as Dead Island include, Little Big Planet 3 for example had round 150 Sumo staff on it. Dead Island 2 isn't a small game, the original had between 170-200 Techland staff on it (last gen.) S.A.R.T also had around 150 sumo staff on it (last gen.) So I come to Dead Island 2, Kart game, project Nova and outsourcing. There is also the added wrinkle that with Snake Pass, they will want to have a team on an original project. Even if it's a small team like Snake Pass (20+), of course Sumo has a team on outsourcing (50+.) Sumo acquired one of CCP's development studios, who they are working with on Project Nova. It seems like Sumo is far more involved than simply aiding development.

MosquitoSmasher · Feb 17, 2018

Crucible said:
https://twitter.com/aarongreenberg/status/957317109679243264

Old tweet but hadn't seen it mentioned. SOT then SOD2. Curiously Greenberg doesn't mention Crackdown 3.

I'm thinking it got pushed out of spring.

Oh man, I actually forgot Crackdown was supposed to come out before this E3 right? Yeah I really don't see that happening at all, there's exactly zero marketing on it. If you think about it it's just goddamn sad though.

Last year they finally were able to reveal it again, the dev even "promised" before E3 that it really actually was releasing that year and well..... now look. I'm afraid the game's gonna be a huge let down. Would love to be wrong though. Hopefully some actual SoD2 updates soon too.

Ushay · Feb 17, 2018

MosquitoSmasher said:
Oh man, I actually forgot Crackdown was supposed to come out before this E3 right? Yeah I really don't see that happening at all, there's exactly zero marketing on it. If you think about it it's just goddamn sad though.

Last year they finally were able to reveal it again, the dev even "promised" before E3 that it really actually was releasing that year and well..... now look. I'm afraid the game's gonna be a huge let down. Would love to be wrong though. Hopefully some actual SoD2 updates soon too.

There's a good reason they delayed CD3, I'd rather it comes later and is a great game then a very mediocre one that released too soon.
Personally I'm optimistic.

Chris. · Feb 17, 2018

MosquitoSmasher said:
Oh man, I actually forgot Crackdown was supposed to come out before this E3 right? Yeah I really don't see that happening at all, there's exactly zero marketing on it. If you think about it it's just goddamn sad though.

Last year they finally were able to reveal it again, the dev even "promised" before E3 that it really actually was releasing that year and well..... now look. I'm afraid the game's gonna be a huge let down. Would love to be wrong though. Hopefully some actual SoD2 updates soon too.

Well when you think about it, SoT didn't have much marketing until like a month ago either and even still, the only marketing it's really gotten is the Beta on Twitch lol.

I don't think MS is investing much in marketing any more if I'm honest, they have games pass to do it for them. And Twitch streams. The main point of advertising really is to sell the game to people but they don't really need to do that any more, you already have it with game pass. They just need to advertise game pass which they are doing.

Monty Mole · Feb 17, 2018

Crucible said:
https://twitter.com/aarongreenberg/status/957317109679243264

Old tweet but hadn't seen it mentioned. SOT then SOD2. Curiously Greenberg doesn't mention Crackdown 3.

I'm thinking it got pushed out of spring.

https://mobile.twitter.com/aarongreenberg/status/957318089825181697

UraMallas · Feb 17, 2018

I'm such a fucking loser that if I had Klobrille's access to these files I would be spending 8 hour shifts combing over the files to find new details. Like, I would just get home from work and start my second job.

zedox · Feb 17, 2018

Chris. said:
Well when you think about it, SoT didn't have much marketing until like a month ago either and even still, the only marketing it's really gotten is the Beta on Twitch lol.

I don't think MS is investing much in marketing any more if I'm honest, they have games pass to do it for them. And Twitch streams. The main point of advertising really is to sell the game to people but they don't really need to do that any more, you already have it with game pass. They just need to advertise game pass.

They will still advertise SoT, as it is on XGP. But i agree they've been cautious in how to approach marketing the game. You don't always need to spend that money and i think playing the game or watching people have fun in the game will sell it more than commercials (not saying you disagree,just saying shit). PUBG aint have ads...lol

Deleted member 62 · Feb 18, 2018

Regarding the anniversary game for Banjo:

litebrite · Feb 18, 2018

Monty Mole said:
https://mobile.twitter.com/aarongreenberg/status/957318089825181697

He just says it's still coming. I never thought Crackdown 3 would ever come out in spring but late summer.

Klobrille · Feb 18, 2018

Shiggy said:
Regarding the anniversary game for Banjo:

That's sad, but somehow was to be expected as I stated already. At least I expect a small SoT event for Banjo around the 20A.

Dyashen · Feb 18, 2018

Shiggy said:
Regarding the anniversary game for Banjo:

So the Banjo20A is either being done by a different studio and Gregg doesn't know about it (which is a shame) or it's something completely different.

Starlatine · Feb 18, 2018

Shiggy said:
Regarding the anniversary game for Banjo:

I'm shocked. Shocked! Etcetera.

You'll get a funny Spencer shirt at best and you're going to like it

Klobrille · Feb 18, 2018

Slicer Dyster said:
So the Banjo20A is either being done by a different studio and Gregg doesn't know about it (which is a shame) or it's something completely different.

I think if something would be a thing, it is completely ruled out Gregg wouldn't know about it. Let's just keep it like that. At least there will be some funny Banjo easter-eggs in Sea of Thieves! Maybe they will be in the next Sonic Racing game, again, too?

daTRUballin · Feb 18, 2018

Wow at that Gregg Mayles tweet. All hopes of an anniversary game have been crushed. :(

Wonder what that 20A thing means then? Probably something lame in SoT as Klobrille stated above. Bleh. What a missed opportunity, but I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

Linkified · Feb 18, 2018

Shiggy said:
Regarding the anniversary game for Banjo:

Even if there was an unannounced 20A Banjo title in the works - hes not going to announce it on twitter.

Deleted member 18951 · Feb 18, 2018

I'm actually glad that Banjo 20A isn't real. Its the most unneeded thing on the Xbox roadmap

Starlatine · Feb 18, 2018

Linkified said:
Even if there was an unannounced 20A Banjo title in the works - hes not going to announce it on twitter.

Let it go. Let it gooooo

jelly · Feb 18, 2018

I've never played the classic Banjo games but do they hold up to make a remake worth it?

I played Conker Live and Reloaded and wasn't really impressed. They should make that an Xbox original.

Klobrille · Feb 18, 2018

jelly said:
I've never played the classic Banjo games but do they hold up to make a remake worth it?

A straight remake just with better graphics would be bad. To be super honest the gameplay didn't age that well. That said ... It's mostly nostalgia glasses - and I'm saying that as a huge Rare fan. It won't happen anyway :) Let's move on.

OG_Thrills · Feb 18, 2018

zedox said:
They will still advertise SoT, as it is on XGP. But i agree they've been cautious in how to approach marketing the game. You don't always need to spend that money and i think playing the game or watching people have fun in the game will sell it more than commercials (not saying you disagree,just saying shit). PUBG aint have ads...lol

They barely advertised Sunset Overdrive too.

PUBG is the proverbial lighting in the bottle and I don't think SOT has that same spark. A US/UK advertising campaign should be employed in this instance.

Silky · Feb 18, 2018

Y'all fell for the Banjo remake work again

Deleted member 62 · Feb 18, 2018

Linkified said:
Even if there was an unannounced 20A Banjo title in the works - hes not going to announce it on twitter.

If there was one, he would know about it and just not reply.

Rodeo Clown · Feb 18, 2018

OG_Thrills said:
They barely advertised Sunset Overdrive too.

PUBG is the proverbial lighting in the bottle and I don't think SOT has that same spark. A US/UK advertising campaign should be employed in this instance.

There was tons of Sunset Overdrive advertising and they bundled it with a special edition console. I don't know what more they could've done to promote that game.

JINX · Feb 18, 2018

There is no way Gregg wouldn't know about something Banjo related in the works, I'm also going to go for a 20th anniversary event in SOT. Probably how we'll earn the Banjo figurehead, something similar.

Theorry · Feb 18, 2018

SO got tons of marketing.

BioDigital Jazzman · Feb 18, 2018

Rodeo Clown said:
There was tons of Sunset Overdrive advertising and they bundled it with a special edition console. I don't know what more they could've done to promote that game.

I think this notion that games don't get advertised needs to stop. Just because it fails doesn't mean it wasn't not pushed. Quantum break and sunset overdrive had good pushes, they just didn't latch on. Commercials, bundles, weekly videos up to launch etc. there was a lot of stuff out there. SO had a game informer cover

Even recore and halo wars 2 got a fair amount of advertising. I can't go on YouTube or twitch without seeing some kind of Xbox game being shown an ad. And more recently, Cuphead and PUBG have gotten massive amounts of marketing

Deleted member 62 · Feb 18, 2018

Pardon my question, but do we expect Microsoft to release one title per quarter this year (Sea of Thieves in Q1, State of Decay 2 in Q2), or do we expect them to ramp up their output in the second half of the year? Not sure if The Coalition and 343 would have something ready for a release this year. 2019 could then have new titles from those two studios plus Ori in early 2019 and Forza in late 2019.

BioDigital Jazzman · Feb 18, 2018

Shiggy said:
Pardon my question, but do we expect Microsoft to release one title per quarter this year (Sea of Thieves in Q1, State of Decay 2 in Q2), or do we expect them to ramp up their output in the second half of the year? Not sure if The Coalition and 343 would have something ready for a release this year. 2019 could then have new titles from those two studios plus Ori in early 2019 and Forza in late 2019.

I mean halo Forza and gears are always going to be fall Titles. It's likely not going to change. Halo 6 and horizon 4 should be around the normal September October period this year. I could also see them releasing Ori in august/September

I see it as they have 3 games each half of the year. SoT, Crackdown and SoD in the first half, and Halo, Ori and Horizon in the second half

Gears only came out 2 years ago so I don't expect it until 2019-2020

Linkified · Feb 18, 2018

Shiggy said:
If there was one, he would know about it and just not reply.

Since Sea of Thieves all the key fellows at Rare have been more active on twitter as a result they would still reply. Would look pretty bad your trying to engage your community but we are just not going to reply.

Klobrille · Feb 18, 2018

Man, that unknown Electric Square and Sumo Digital projects drive me crazy! I really need LinkedIn Premium lol xD I have the feeling that Sumo Digital fps might be a project for Microsoft.

JINX · Feb 18, 2018

Shiggy said:
Pardon my question, but do we expect Microsoft to release one title per quarter this year (Sea of Thieves in Q1, State of Decay 2 in Q2), or do we expect them to ramp up their output in the second half of the year? Not sure if The Coalition and 343 would have something ready for a release this year. 2019 could then have new titles from those two studios plus Ori in early 2019 and Forza in late 2019.

I'm thinking SOD2 and CD3 will drop within the second quarter, I don't see them pushing those titles later in the year. Then we will have Forza in September or early October, possibly Ori also in September if it's further than we realise (otherwise Ori Q1 2019.) 343 is looking like next year and the Coalition will similarly take an extra year like 343 appear to be, I don't see them having Gears and Halo in the same year (also not outside the holiday.)

nekkid · Feb 18, 2018

BioDigital Jazzman said:
I mean halo Forza and gears are always going to be fall Titles. It's likely not going to change. Halo 6 and horizon 4 should be around the normal September October period this year. I could also see them releasing Ori in august/September

I see it as they have 3 games each half of the year. SoT, Crackdown and SoD in the first half, and Halo, Ori and Horizon in the second half

Gears only came out 2 years ago so I don't expect it until 2019-2020

I reckon FM could benefit from a spring release - shifts it away from crowded periods and coincides with many racing season starts.

FH's broad market for a racer means October is still a good fit.

I reckon Halo and Gears should move to September like Halo 3. Beat the other big shooters to launch with plenty of breathing room, while still being a "holiday" title.

Judge · Feb 18, 2018

Looks like Fable Fortune is leaving game preview this week

https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2018/02/17/next-week-on-xbox-new-games-february-19-to-february-25/

Lukas Taves · Feb 18, 2018

Klobrille said:
Man, that unknown Electric Square and Sumo Digital projects drive me crazy! I really need LinkedIn Premium lol xD I have the feeling that Sumo Digital fps might be a project for Microsoft.

I have premium as a perk for subscribing to linked in learning.

Point me to where I should look lol

litebrite · Feb 18, 2018

Judge said:
Looks like Fable Fortune is leaving game preview this week

https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2018/02/17/next-week-on-xbox-new-games-february-19-to-february-25/

Damn Rad Rodgers and Past Cure look alright. First I've heard of them. Will keep an eye on impressions and reviews of the game.

BioDigital Jazzman · Feb 18, 2018

Judge said:
Looks like Fable Fortune is leaving game preview this week

https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2018/02/17/next-week-on-xbox-new-games-february-19-to-february-25/

I wonder if it gets added to gamespass sooner rather than later. It's not technically first party but it may help the game do better

Windu · Feb 18, 2018

So now that all xbox 1P games are hitting game pass. Has there been any hints at smaller games being made? I feel like Microsoft might do more of this, then again that might be what the indie games are for.

Deleted member 62 · Feb 18, 2018

BioDigital Jazzman said:
I mean halo Forza and gears are always going to be fall Titles. It's likely not going to change. Halo 6 and horizon 4 should be around the normal September October period this year. I could also see them releasing Ori in august/September

I see it as they have 3 games each half of the year. SoT, Crackdown and SoD in the first half, and Halo, Ori and Horizon in the second half

Gears only came out 2 years ago so I don't expect it until 2019-2020

Didn't 343 say that Halo won't be coming this year? Might remember something wrongly there. Forza Horizon 4 Rising Sun is surely coming though.

Klobrille said:
Man, that unknown Electric Square and Sumo Digital projects drive me crazy! I really need LinkedIn Premium lol xD I have the feeling that Sumo Digital fps might be a project for Microsoft.

What Sumo Digital FPS are you referring to? The games on the slides are Project Nova for CCP and Dead Island 2, albeit the slides obviously don't list all games they had in development last fall (Crackdown 3 is missing for example).

Klobrille · Feb 18, 2018

Shiggy said:
What Sumo Digital FPS are you referring to? The games on the slides are Project Nova for CCP and Dead Island 2, albeit the slides obviously don't list all games they had in development last fall (Crackdown 3 is missing for example).

The slide is for an unannounced FPS - I made some more findings here. Dead Island 2 is missing there for the same reason like Crackdown 3 - these projects were already announced at the time the presentation was created. Sumo announced they are working on Dead Island 2 in March 2016 already.

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