Microsoft testing Gaming Rentals over the store?

TheThreadsThatBindUs · Mar 21, 2018

Dre G Writer said:
Hmmmm, im quite interested in hearing more insight on this perspective. Care to share more details, thoughts and opinions???

The way I'm rationalizing this is as follows:

- Most single player games can mostly be completed in 3 months.
- Single player games are already a higher commercial risk for publishers as they can't monetize them as easily (recurring revenue, MT, lootboxes).
- Offering rentals on the online stores unilaterally would see most gamers rent single player games exclusively, since once finished they won't come back to them.
- Hence, revenues for SP games will now be mostly the lower $21 rental fee per user than the $60 purchase outwright, meaning less revenue, meaning even higher commercial risk for AAA single player games going forwards, meaning the potential death of SP games.

I'm speculating, but I don't think these assumption are too unreasonable.

Starlatine · Mar 21, 2018

Chris. said:
I don't think 20 every 3 months is expensive

70 reais for three months of a game you don't get to keep is expensive. I'd rather actually buy something else.
even monthly rentals would end up 40ish reais if it costed 10$. too much, even if i REALLY wanted to play a game. i like the idea, but the benefit of renting is having it as a low cost/no ownership option. if it is too expensive, i'll just ignore it

Chris. said:
So.. you expect to pay 21 dollars to own a game?

there was a guy in the gamepass thread thinking you owned every game after signing for a month

never doubt Era

crimsonheadGCN · Mar 21, 2018

This is a great idea by Microsoft and I hope Valve implements it into Steam one day.

bsigg · Mar 21, 2018

TheThreadsThatBindUs said:
The way I'm rationalizing this is as follows:

- Most single player games can mostly be completed in 3 months.
- Single player games are already a higher commercial risk for publishers as they can't monetize them as easily (recurring revenue, MT, lootboxes).
- Offering rentals on the online stores unilaterally would see most gamers rent single player games exclusively, since once finished they won't come back to them.
- Hence, revenues for SP games will now be mostly the lower $21 rental fee per user than the $60 purchase outwright, meaning less revenue, meaning even higher commercial risk for AAA single player games going forwards, meaning the potential death of SP games.

I'm speculating, but I don't think these assumption are too unreasonable.

What if the rental option only appears 6-12 months after a game has been out?

Don't make it available at or near launch but rather as a way to get more people to check it out down the line in a way that gets some sort of revenue for the publisher and Microsoft and not a used game route.

The Pet of the Month · Mar 21, 2018

I had a hunch this was coming sooner or later, but I didn't expect it to be so soon!

This is really cool, but I'll need a few more details on it before I can lay judgement. Should be pushed on to the alpha insider channel soon, I reckon.

Marcus Brutalius · Mar 21, 2018

TheThreadsThatBindUs said:
This is the reason I'm surprised that any publisher would consider offering rentals.

If they did this and Sony did it too I could see it all but killing the market for AAA single player games.

Yeah, as much as I want to see this only through consumers' eyes, I slowly get the feeling that MS is opening Pandora's box.

It's a huge gamble on MS's behalf. If every consumer just starts buying GP/ rents games on a monthly basis for the time they spend with it, they're screwed.
Luckily subscription models traditionally work, because people loose all awareness over time when it comes to value. A subscription easily grows into a state where it's like paying for electricity, water and gas, if you don't
play x amount of hours in one or two months...no big deal.

If you know that you're usually done with a game after 3 months, just buy 3 months of Gamepass (=30$) instead of 60-70$ for the full "ownership". If this becomes the norm,
AAA single player games won't be the only ones to suffer, unless this industry has be lying to us for the last 10 years about dev-costs and so on.

Don't know about Sony, but I'm 100% sure that Nintendo will never do this, because they have a price/value philosophy on the opposite side of the spectrum. For good or for worse.

Einbroch · Mar 21, 2018

GameFly costs $12/month for 2 games out at a time. If you're in the US, you really should look into that if this gets you excited.

bsigg · Mar 21, 2018

The Pet of the Month said:
I had a hunch this was coming sooner or later, but I didn't expect it to be so soon!

This is really cool, but I'll need a few more details on it before I can lay judgement. Should be pushed on to the alpha insider channel soon, I reckon.

Eh, like the simple refund system, I expect it to be in testing to a select group for an extended period. I think this could be announced at or around E3 to go along with a wide rollout of the simple refunds system.

Deleted member 1413 · Mar 21, 2018

Seems a bit too cheap? I don't know many games where I'd play for more than 3 months. Don't think 3rd party devs would want it and it should already be on games pass.

Interesting non the less

pswii60 · Mar 21, 2018

IvanSlavkov said:
Most likely this mercado pago, a payment method used to pay full price in installments which is very popular in Brazil.

Can anyone in Brazil confirm?

Seems strange that a rental service would be shadow-dropped to the general public like this, so that sounds like a more plausible explanation for the screenshot.

MrTired · Mar 21, 2018

TheThreadsThatBindUs said:
The way I'm rationalizing this is as follows:

- Most single player games can mostly be completed in 3 months.
- Single player games are already a higher commercial risk for publishers as they can't monetize them as easily (recurring revenue, MT, lootboxes).
- Offering rentals on the online stores unilaterally would see most gamers rent single player games exclusively, since once finished they won't come back to them.
- Hence, revenues for SP games will now be mostly the lower $21 rental fee per user than the $60 purchase outwright, meaning less revenue, meaning even higher commercial risk for AAA single player games going forwards, meaning the potential death of SP games.

I'm speculating, but I don't think these assumption are too unreasonable.

That my issue as well, obviously there dlc expansion but I don't believe the trade in lower cost will be overcome by increase number of purchases. I would love to know what the used marketplace is worth?

sangreal · Mar 21, 2018

IvanSlavkov said:
Most likely this mercado pago, a payment method used to pay full price in installments which is very popular in Brazil.

This seems like pretty important context

The Pet of the Month · Mar 21, 2018

bsigg said:
Eh, like the simple refund system, I expect it to be in testing to a select group for an extended period. I think this could be announced at or around E3 to go along with a wide rollout of the simple refunds system.

I've been using the refund system for so long I forgot about how it's still not available to everyone. Hopefully it is rolled out around E3, to coincide with a larger push of making Xbox a platform.

Alwayscrazybacon · Mar 21, 2018

Rychu said:
Makes a lot of sense. Xbox One all generation has been about offering choices.

That's what it looks like, but they are just using Xbox One as a loss leading test bed for the distribution model for the next generation. Whichever model has the best results will be the basis of software pricing and distribution for the next Xbox.

MrTired · Mar 21, 2018

bsigg said:
What if the rental option only appears 6-12 months after a game has been out?

Don't make it available at or near launch but rather as a way to get more people to check it out down the line in a way that gets some sort of revenue for the publisher and Microsoft and not a used game route.

But for these types of policies to work as intended they need to be day and date. They trying to reduced used games sales and while also increasing ditigal purchases.

zedox · Mar 21, 2018

Rent to own.
Layaway.

MS is giving users so many options to play games if this is true. That's very smart of them.

AshenOne · Mar 21, 2018

Great! Now your move Steam.

Chris. · Mar 21, 2018

Starlatine said:
70 reais for three months of a game you don't get to keep is expensive. I'd rather actually buy something else.
even monthly rentals would end up 40ish reais if it costed 10$. too much, even if i REALLY wanted to play a game. i like the idea, but the benefit of renting is having it as a low cost/no ownership option. if it is too expensive, i'll just ignore it

there was a guy in the gamepass thread thinking you owned every game after signing for a month

never doubt Era

I'm guessing your Brazilian? In dollars that's not a lot imo, but I don't know how the market is in Brazil.

freakybj · Mar 21, 2018

Would be a game changer if MS got some sort of rental service going. It would be a great way to finally make digital distribution on consoles more appealing than going physical. But $21 to rent games at 3 month intervals sounds like too much for too little. They would need to get the pricing model right for it to really take off. Somewhere along the lines of $1 per day rentals sounds reasonable. It would allow you to try the game before buying. If you want to buy the game, then the money you spent on renting should be subtracted from the full $60 price point. After 2 months (~60 days) the game just goes to being in your library since you would've paid it off by then.

MrTired · Mar 21, 2018

Marcus Brutalius said:
Yeah, as much as I want to see this only through consumers' eyes, I slowly get the feeling that MS is opening Pandora's box.

It's a huge gamble on MS's behalf. If every consumer just starts buying GP/ rents games on a monthly basis for the time they spend with it, they're screwed.
Luckily subscription models traditionally work, because people loose all awareness over time when it comes to value. A subscription easily grows into a state where it's like paying for electricity, water and gas, if you don't
play x amount of hours in one or two months...no big deal.

If you know that you're usually done with a game after 3 months, just buy 3 months of Gamepass (=30$) instead of 60-70$ for the full "ownership". If this becomes the norm,
AAA single player games won't be the only ones to suffer, unless this industry has be lying to us for the last 10 years about dev-costs and so on.

Don't know about Sony, but I'm 100% sure that Nintendo will never do this, because they have a price/value philosophy on the opposite side of the spectrum. For good or for worse.

I don't think it is because of the type of games Microsoft are greenlighting. Games that contain mtx, dlc, multiplayer (Xbox live sub) not Big budget AAA games. This will affect Sony and Nintendo more due to the type of games they produce. Yes Microsoft are devaluing their games but it could cause consumers to change their expectations on pricing which Microsoft would be best capitalising on.

ShinUltramanJ · Mar 21, 2018

To me that makes no sense. I'd rater wait for a sale and outright own a game as opposed to renting every few months. Especially when it's a huge time sink like Forza, where you're invested with all of the cars and upgrades you've unlocked. They'd have to offer the ability to keep the license at a nice discount after renting to make it fair to consumers.

Considering they already offer Game Pass, decent sales, and free games via Gold, I don't feel this is really necessary. Seems like it's becoming too convoluted with all of these services.

Dre G Writer · Mar 21, 2018

TheThreadsThatBindUs said:
The way I'm rationalizing this is as follows:

- Most single player games can mostly be completed in 3 months.
- Single player games are already a higher commercial risk for publishers as they can't monetize them as easily (recurring revenue, MT, lootboxes).
- Offering rentals on the online stores unilaterally would see most gamers rent single player games exclusively, since once finished they won't come back to them.
- Hence, revenues for SP games will now be mostly the lower $21 rental fee per user than the $60 purchase outwright, meaning less revenue, meaning even higher commercial risk for AAA single player games going forwards, meaning the potential death of SP games.

I'm speculating, but I don't think these assumption are too unreasonable.

hmmm, ok, you make some good points. Im personally not a fan of that 20 or so currency for 3 months. I would lean more towards, five currency for like five days. at 20 or so bucks, you might as well wait for a sale or buy it second hand. 3 months i feel is too long. also as someone stated the rental doesnt have to go live when the game goes live. could be a month or two later. i dont really see AAA studiis making single player games already, so this model could be for a AA indie or such studio to shine. although they wont make that 20-30 or so currency from selling a 60 title, they could make it up with higher number of users renting it that wouldnt have given the game a chance at all at a 60 price.

bsigg · Mar 21, 2018

MrTired said:
But for these types of policies to work as intended they need to be day and date. They trying to reduced used games sales and while also increasing ditigal purchases.

So what if it depending on how new he title is, the rental period is adjusted to reflect that timeframe?

New release (within a month of launch) - $20 for a 3 day rental .

Recent release (1-3 months post launch) -$20 for 14 day rental

Older release (3+ months post launch) -$20 for 1 month

Marcus Brutalius · Mar 21, 2018

MrTired said:
I don't think it is because of the type of games Microsoft are greenlighting. Games that contain mtx, dlc, multiplayer (Xbox live sub) not Big budget AAA games. This will affect Sony and Nintendo more due to the type of games they produce. Yes Microsoft are devaluing their games but it could cause consumers to change their expectations on pricing which Microsoft would be best capitalising on.

Yeah, it's kinda interesting that all of this happens whilst the whole "should game prices be raised" discussion still exists. I honestly don't know what to believe anymore. As I've said it's a gamble: Xbox could end up being
the pioneer of a whole new monetization model or get totally f...ed in the process.

Judge · Mar 21, 2018

CormoranStrike said:
There is such a thing as hire purchase. I wouldn't pay 21 quid every 3 months for a rental personally.

I'm the opposite. I would certainly pay 1/3 of the price to play a Single Player game, beat it, and relinquish any rights to it after the 3 months. Basically a form of "returning" or "trading it in"

Popetita · Mar 21, 2018

How would this be better than game pass if it is for a single game?

I would say a pay ass you go service where you pay 20 each month and at the end, you fully own the game is good. I don't think gaming, in general, is expensive, but that would take a lot of the cheap excuses out of it.

MrTired · Mar 21, 2018

bsigg said:
So what if it depending on how new he title is, the rental period is adjusted to reflect that timeframe?

New release (within a month of launch) - $20 for a 3 day rental .

Recent release (1-3 months post launch) -$20 for 14 day rental

Older release (3+ months post launch) -$20 for 1 month

Those prices would need to be adjusted because there competing with used game prices which is a one time cost

Marcus Brutalius · Mar 21, 2018

bsigg said:
So what if it depending on how new he title is, the rental period is adjusted to reflect that timeframe?

New release (within a month of launch) - $20 for a 3 day rental .

Recent release (1-3 months post launch) -$20 for 14 day rental

Older release (3+ months post launch) -$20 for 1 month

20$ for a 3 day rental?!!? Good luck with that

ShinUltramanJ · Mar 21, 2018

AshenOne said:
Great! Now your move Steam.

You want the option to rent $10 games?

It’s Time To Go · Mar 21, 2018

Judge said:
I'm the opposite. I would certainly pay 1/3 of the price to play a Single Player game, beat it, and relinquish any rights to it after the 3 months. Basically a form of "returning" or "trading it in"

Thats fair enough, but if you'd paid 63 dollars to play a game for 9 months, I'd hope they let you keep it.

Like with the old rental places that charged you a fee for every night of a late return but let you keep the game or video after a certain point.

MrTired · Mar 21, 2018

Marcus Brutalius said:
Yeah, it's kinda interesting that all of this happens whilst the whole "should game prices be raised" discussion still exists. I honestly don't know what to believe anymore. As I've said it's a gamble: Xbox could end up being
the pioneer of a whole new monetization model or get totally f...ed in the process.

True either f**k it up for themselves or f**k it up for there competition and other publishers.

Mass Effect · Mar 21, 2018

Thardin said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renting#Rent_to_own

You know rent-to-own requires you to pay an additional amount to... well, own after said rental period is up right?

You think you should just get the game after 3 months for no extra cost?

MrTired · Mar 21, 2018

CormoranStrike said:
Thats fair enough, but if you'd paid 63 dollars to play a game for 9 months, I'd hope they let you keep it.

Like with the old rental places that charged you a fee for every night of a late return but let you keep the game or video after a certain point.

They probably only do the gamepass thing and give you a discount (I think the amount is 20%).

Rychu · Mar 21, 2018

Alwayscrazybacon said:
That's what it looks like, but they are just using Xbox One as a loss leading test bed for the distribution model for the next generation. Whichever model has the best results will be the basis of software pricing and distribution for the next Xbox.

What the hell is this comment? Lmao. Yes the features and services they introduce will almost certainly be on the next Xbox. The Xbox One isn't a "loss leading guinea pig or test bed".

Despite not being as successful as PS4, it's still selling well and that's really all that matters. Get your console warring out of here.

Mass Effect · Mar 21, 2018

Judge said:
I'm the opposite. I would certainly pay 1/3 of the price to play a Single Player game, beat it, and relinquish any rights to it after the 3 months. Basically a form of "returning" or "trading it in"

And that's exactly why you'll be unable to rent single-player games most likely.

This is probably intended for GaaS products.

MrTired · Mar 21, 2018

Rychu said:
What the hell is this comment? Lmao. Yes the features and services they introduce will almost certainly be on the next Xbox. The Xbox One isn't a "loss leading guinea pig or test bed".

Despite not being as successful as PS4, it's still selling well and that's really all that matters. Get your console warring out of here.

I don't take his comments to be console-warring, I interpret it as him implying Microsoft are engaging with policies that aren't aimed to be profitable now but could next generation.

woozey · Mar 21, 2018

Kolx said:
Cool idea for mp games, but I can't see how sp games would benefit from that?

Why would people buy games then?

I would totally rent a game for 3 months for 21 bucks, beat it and be done.

bsigg · Mar 21, 2018

Marcus Brutalius said:
20$ for a 3 day rental?!!? Good luck with that

MrTired said:
Those prices would need to be adjusted because there competing with used game prices which is a one time cost

Guys it was clearly just an example.

You would need the newer titles to not be a value though. If someone is hoping to rent or play a game at launch for less than the $60 buy in, they should be paying a premium.

VirtuaRacer · Mar 21, 2018

IvanSlavkov said:
Most likely this mercado pago, a payment method used to pay full price in installments which is very popular in Brazil.

Introduced to Xbox Live in January this year it seems.

https://www.windowsclub.com.br/merc...cos-xbox-live-office-credito-em-jogos-e-mais/

MrTired · Mar 21, 2018

bsigg said:
Guys it was clearly just an example.

You would need the newer titles to not be a value though. If someone is hoping to rent or play a game at launch for less than the $60 buy in, they should be paying a premium.

No that exactly the opposite of Microsoft thinking they want to lower the barrier of entry. That why I myself have reservations due to this effectively dropping the price of single player only games.

Lukas Taves · Mar 21, 2018

VirtuaRacer said:
Introduced to Xbox Live in January this year it seems.

https://www.windowsclub.com.br/merc...cos-xbox-live-office-credito-em-jogos-e-mais/

But mercado pago on live at least that I know of, is to purchasing pre paid cards, you can't add as a payment method like paypal.

Deleted member 2254 · Mar 21, 2018

Rychu said:
I'm not sure it will be $1.99, I'm going to say the minimum rental will be 15 days and it will cost a price range between $5.99-$7.99 or something like that (I personally think $6.99)

Yeah, I said 2 bucks as a random number. However, if a month rental for a game costs close to a month of Game Pass, it's not particularly convenient - that is, of course, if we're talking about a game that would be on Game Pass too regardless. It would make sense to rent, say, Shadow Of The Tomb Raider for a week for a couple dollars and that's it, if you don't plan on playing it again you don't suddenly have a copy of the game to pass off to get back some its value, you already paid a minimal amount for a brand new triple-A game to begin with. Digital rental is something that honestly surprises me that it hasn't exploded yet, but I can see why certain publishers aren't eager to give you the full game for 5 bucks considering the majority of players drop a game in the first weeks. But still, it wouldn't surprise me if Xbox made the ultimate push, what with their Game Pass and all it seems to be another natural alternative. More choices for gamers, as you can buy titles:
- new, retail,
- used/on sale, retail
- full price, digital
- on sale, digital
- rent them singularly
- rent them together with another selection of games in Game Pass or with other services like Games With Gold and EA Access

There's something for all kinds of customers and price ranges, basically. Whether you'll drop the game in a week or play it for years, whether you just want to try it because you're not sure you'll like it, whether you want it all but wouldn't/couldn't pay much for it, whether you have tons of disposable income, whether you're not the kind of person to spend much on a game but would prefer a Netflix-like selection of quality games instead. I like this future tbh.

Alwayscrazybacon · Mar 21, 2018

Rychu said:
What the hell is this comment? Lmao. Yes the features and services they introduce will almost certainly be on the next Xbox. The Xbox One isn't a "loss leading guinea pig or test bed".

Despite not being as successful as PS4, it's still selling well and that's really all that matters. Get your console warring out of here.

If you think my comments are console warrior based then you are just projecting and its you who are being a defense force. Anyway, the Xbox is clearly in the number 3 or maybe 4 spot in the gaming market at this time. I'm platform agnostic, I own all current gen consoles so have no horse in the race, I just enjoy the race. Whoever wins I still win. From the posirion they are in the market they are using it as a test bed. Life gives you lemons, make lemonade.

Rychu · Mar 21, 2018

Alwayscrazybacon said:
If you think my comments are console warrior based then you are just projecting and its you who are being a defense force. Anyway, the Xbox is clearly in the number 3 or maybe 4 spot in the gaming market at this time. I'm platform agnostic, I own all current gen consoles so have no horse in the race, I just enjoy the race. Whoever wins I still win. From the posirion they are in the market they are using it as a test bed. Life gives you lemons, make lemonade.

If you are platform agnostic then I apologize. But it seemed like you were insinuating Microsoft is only adding features because Xbox One is on its death bed and they are just making features for next gen.

Lukas Taves · Mar 21, 2018

MrTired said:
No that exactly the opposite of Microsoft thinking they want to lower the barrier of entry. That why I myself have reservations due to this effectively dropping the price of single player only games.

This could be the case if SP games already already sold tons of millions at $60. They are the first to drop price at retail, and the first to have owners returned for new purchases.

I think this will be good for SP games because the majority already don't pay $60 to play it already, they either buy pre owned or wait for the price to drop, both solutions offer less revenue for the company than a $20 rental right away.

Deleted member 11626 · Mar 21, 2018

TheThreadsThatBindUs said:
This is the reason I'm surprised that any publisher would consider offering rentals.

If they did this and Sony did it too I could see it all but killing the market for AAA single player games.

Probably not. With digital rentals there will be licensing fees determined by each publisher. EA, for example, could very well decide that new releases aren't available for rental at all or even force customers to subscribe to EA Access before allowing rentals of new titles that don't already get a trial period. Furthermore, nobody has to make a rental available on day one. Rentals in any form haven't killed gaming so far. Why would they now?

I keep seeing Game Pass brought up and I'm not sure what people aren't getting. Game Pass doesn't have every single game released available and it never will. Is there something I'm missing?

Marcus Brutalius · Mar 21, 2018

Alwayscrazybacon said:
If you think my comments are console warrior based then you are just projecting and its you who are being a defense force. Anyway, the Xbox is clearly in the number 3 or maybe 4 spot in the gaming market at this time. I'm platform agnostic, I own all current gen consoles so have no horse in the race, I just enjoy the race. Whoever wins I still win. From the posirion they are in the market they are using it as a test bed. Life gives you lemons, make lemonade.

I agree, maybe they're not putting Xbox as a whole into that test chamber, but all of their exclusive games for sure.

ShapeDePapa · Mar 21, 2018

Kolx said:
Cool idea for mp games, but I can't see how sp games would benefit from that?

They would benefit by seeing my money. I'm not paying 80$CAD for a SP game. The cheaper you can give access to the games the larger your audience will be. I think anyway haha.

Alwayscrazybacon · Mar 21, 2018

MrTired said:
I don't take his comments to be console-warring, I interpret it as him implying Microsoft are engaging with policies that aren't aimed to be profitable now but could next generation.

And you are cotrect sir.

Judge · Mar 21, 2018

Mass Effect said:
And that's exactly why you'll be unable to rent single-player games most likely.

This is probably intended for GaaS products.

Ya most likely. Perfect scenario and all :P

Microsoft testing Gaming Rentals over the store?

533.489 paid youtubers cant be wrong

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