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Mike Pondsmith's (Cyberpunk 2020 creator) response to some Cyberpunk 2077 criticism (accuracy to his orig. work, race representation) [see staff post]
- Thread starter Rodjer
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Yeah, it's more than a little bit funny that all these people keeping complaining about the direction CDPR are taking the game and how they don't "understand" Cyberpunk when the literal creator of the source material has been on the project from day one and is talking about how authentic the game is to his creation.
Let's be fair, Cyberpunk 2020 doesn't encompass the entirety of the genre. I don't think Mike Pondsmith deserves that many kudos.
They never said the entire genre, this is the source material.
The post I quoted literally brought up the entire genre of cyberpunk.
The entirety of the genre is irrelevant. This game is based on his world and his lore.
Genre? It's based on a game created by Pondsmith. I don't think he's taking credit for the whole cyberpunk genre.
CDPR also doesn't seek to portray the genre, but rather Mike Pondsmith's interpretation of it, so I'm not sure how this is relevant.
Mike probably has a good idea of the rest of the genre too.
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No one is saying that, but Cyberpunk 2077 is based on the tabletop game (i was referring to this in my post), if Mike says that the game is authentic to his own creation i'll trust him. Of course there are different "types" of Cyberpunk and styles.
Yeah. And then they want them to somehow come out and explain the lengths the entire game goes to frame everything as if that's even possible.
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I fixed it, i forgot the "2020", i mean, i talked about the creator, so of i course it is Cyberpunk 2020 and not the whole genre.
I brought up the actual, quoted words of that man's post.
He first named Pondsmith as being the creator of the game and knowing his own world. Fair.
He second named Pondsmith as having some all-encompassing knowledge and authority on the whole genre of cyberpunk.
All I was asking was Rodjer to stick to reality. What is going on here?
Thank you, clarity is all I'm asking for.
He first named Pondsmith as being the creator of the game and knowing his own world. Fair.
He second named Pondsmith as having some all-encompassing knowledge and authority on the whole genre of cyberpunk.
All I was asking was Rodjer to stick to reality. What is going on here?
Thank you, clarity is all I'm asking for.
right but from the criticisms i've seen personally i'd imagine that's not what they're referring to when they say "cyberpunk"
Saya's OP and some of these response really feel like a "Gotcha" to the many trans women and other LGBTQ+ people on ResetEra who have complained, have concerns etc on the portrayal which given how some of you have been dog piling us and making us feel like we should shut up the past few weeks, is very believable. As Sign My Guess Book pointed out:
And has a ton of issues as well when it comes to stuff like Transphobia. Honestly, how some Resetters have been acting lately, I feel like I should leave the site because it feels like doing gotcha posts are becoming more the norm and this is site wasn't as progressive as I thought it was.
You're reading that into it. People are talking about others who mean to tell everyone they know "what cyberpunk is", and that CDPR somehow doesn't. No one is complaining about the discussion surrounding representation.
Because the point of a preview is to give you a good idea of what the is like, to allure potential costumers into buying/pre-ordering the game and if they include stuff people find questionable in that, then yes people are going to point that out and have concerns. And again, the source materials also has issues when it comes to stuff like trans issues, being faithful to me isn't much of an excuse to keep issues like that but more an opportunity to fix them.
What? How did you come to that conclusion? There were statements from CDPR employees and there was quite civil discussion regarding this topic with exceptions of xenophobic comments from some people who claim that they fight against stereotypes while stereotyping Polish people.
For those who don't know, Mike Pondsmith is this awesome fellow who created the Cyberpunk 2020 tabletop RPG, on which Cyberpunk 2077 is based:
He also heavily collaborated on Cyberpunk 2077, and he's fairly active on Reddit, under the /u/therealmaxmike monicker.
He also heavily collaborated on Cyberpunk 2077, and he's fairly active on Reddit, under the /u/therealmaxmike monicker.
But this comment is specifically referring to the fact that some people keep saying what Cyberpunk 2077 is and how the game isn't true to Cyberpunk 2020.
Nobody is complaining about articles that explore the wider thematics around the genre of cyberpunk
In all honesty, I wouldn't want Sapkowski involved lol. Also helps that Pondsmith hailed from the video game industry too, so he's like doubly helpful.
The only thing this taught me is that it's exceptionally annoying to have to differentiate between Cyberpunk and Cyberpunk because they overlap and you can never tell which one people mean without them explicitly saying it.
"cyberpunk 2077 is a poor portayal of cyberpunk" is an annoyance of a reply as a result.
"cyberpunk 2077 is a poor portayal of cyberpunk" is an annoyance of a reply as a result.
I know Mike has been semi active on the reddit board and loves seeing those people's excitement about the game. Buuut I kinda wanna question the wisdom of replying to people there that sound as angry and irate as that person comes off in the post. Extremely angry people on gaming subreddits don't exactly tend to hold the best views, which is generally very easy to see when you dig just a little bit into their post history.
However I can definitely understand why Mike would be frustrated by the way some have reacted very fast and aggressively towards certain things, in what is at this point probably the video game version of his life's work.
However I can definitely understand why Mike would be frustrated by the way some have reacted very fast and aggressively towards certain things, in what is at this point probably the video game version of his life's work.
it feels unfortunate that Mike Pondsmith decided to jump into an ultra fanboyish Reddit thread just to defend CDPR's decisions with an argument that amounts to "authorial intent is definitive, stfu"
like, most people probably understand what the Animals name is intended to convey, but that doesn't suddenly cancel out the potential it has to evoke a number of other things
agreed
90% of the "CDPR has a weak understanding of cyberpunk" criticism I've seen has nothing to do with the preexisting game
like, most people probably understand what the Animals name is intended to convey, but that doesn't suddenly cancel out the potential it has to evoke a number of other things
agreed
90% of the "CDPR has a weak understanding of cyberpunk" criticism I've seen has nothing to do with the preexisting game
No one is keeping you or anyone else from being critical of the game and to have concerns and expressing them.. the problem were people who somehow stated some things that are right now just speculations and guesswork as a fact
Pretty much this. To add to it, a bit ago in a room wjth friends who love rpgs and witcher and such I pointed out that it's based on the tabletop game and got some "oh, thats cool!"s back from everyone having no damn clue what it is.
Tabletop games are kinda dead among my age (early 20s), especially only ones, so peoples issues arent really with his game in specific, because I presume the average person excited for the game has no clue its not a CDPR original concept.
It's CDP fault after all, their strategy has been the same of last year, not showing the game to the public.
That way you maximize the press exposure, but ey, you can't control what you are going to get.
Last year was all hype, this year some bad press is also present.
Personally I can't wait for the game, and ai am too old to care for the fake fuss
In which case it's an unfair expectation anyway, because CDPR seeks to adapt Cyberpunk 2020, not represent "Cyberpunk" as a genre.
I mean, if the creator of 2020 is saying it is authentic to his vision, by that transitive property it would suggest that Mike has a weak understanding of cyberpunk.
I've seen it described the game described as a white supremacists wet dream on Twitter and similar sentiments echoed here, all sight unseen of the actual game, like I feel he's allowed to get mad at some point about all of this.
let's be honest though, he would never say if he wasn't. he is making lots of money from cyberpunk 2077 and the tabletop only became relevant again thanks to the video game.
i don't know man, i totally believe he is involved with the game but i doubt he has much power over the direction the game is taking. he signed away the rights to the video game to cdpr.
i mean does anyone remember this interview he gave years ago about the world of cyberpunk?
the game definitely feels a lot different now than how he was describing it back then. he also said all the classes from the tabletop are going to be playable and only a couple months later it was revealed that you can't be a rockerboy, fixer or cop.
i'm just saying just because pondsmith said something doesn't mean it has to be true. certain parts of the game could still be racist/problematic no matter if he thinks otherwise.
Or it would suggest that people are talking out of their ass, because to suggest that you know more about the genre than an author of a p&p RPG on the genre along with like 30 books is gonna need some serious receipts.
He doesn't need to say if he wasn't. If he wasn't, he probably wouldn't say anything and rake in the checks.
Yeah.
It is certainly an argument that people could make, but internet hot takes don't really bring anything to bear in that regard.
Wait I dont see how him being black relates to what I assume is the trans topic or am I missing something
Another comment of his
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