Military uprising taking place in Venezuela (See Staff Post)
- Thread starter Noodle
- Start date
Lo mismo pienso hermano. Saludos desde Centroamérica y espero que las cosas sigan mejor allá.
I don't think anyone sane could defend him in any case.
Those millions of inmigrants will vote though. Here in Chile we even gave Venezuelan special Visas and 3 months to regulate their papers, while Haitians have only 30 days and there are programs open to fly them back to Haiti on the condition of never returning in like 9 years.
Don't be naive in thinking that these government that has supported actively military dictatorships suddendly now have hearts.
Was there something more to this? They say its a CIA linked plane, ok? Based on what? They also state its going to Caracas. Seems pretty flimsy evidence of anything
You know, I remember growing up at the ass end of the Cold War, trying to understand why so many Socialist/Communist Parties In the West had hitched their wagons to terrible authoritarian regimes, and why it had taken them so long to denounce that stuff, when they never really needed to defend or ignore the Stalins, Maos or Pol Pots of this world to make a strong case against capitalism or American imperialism.
I guess I get it now.
imho really low , and i am in venezuela btw, not enough support from the military even if the news tells you otherwise, right now Guaido is staying in their comfort zone : Plaza Altamira , this military uprising will fail
I AM from Venezuela. I was born there. I have family there.. And maybe you misread my post but I'm telling people not to be SHITTY towards them and talking down to them about how Maduro is fine because USA bad. You can suspect US involvement in this and still say Maduro's so bad he has to go now. Maduro is SCUM, if you haven't noticed, and I support all the Venezuelans here denouncing him and asking for a better situation.
I even support people taking a gamble because short-term it's hard for it to get worse.
Even considering these things, you have just one chance to do a rebellion like this right. So you want every support possible when you do so. Because because if that fails, retaliation against the opposition, including the military, will be huge, making it even more difficult to seize power (see Turkey for example). Maduro could still use this to energize the base that still supports him. It seems that Guaido got support from part of the military and was waiting for the low-ranking military to join him when the coup began, which is not happening, at least at the moment. In my view it was a misguided strategy, but let's see how events unfold throughout the day.
Most successful coups are not by the highest ranking officers I think.
The people pushing Guaido and regime change in Venezuela are the EXACT SAME PEOPLE that lied to you about Iraq twice, the same people who lied to you about Libya, the same people who lied to you about Syria!! These are the people who thought they could depose Saddam and put in Chalabi and everything would be okay. These are the same people who thought they could take out Gaddafi and Assad and put in a bunch of western educated technocrats in those countries.
Look at where those countries are now, and you can see why I'm skeptical of US backed regime change.
Look at where those countries are now, and you can see why I'm skeptical of US backed regime change.
Ignora los pendejos que están detrás de un teclado en la comodidad de su casa hablando como si estuvieran en los zapatos de la gente Venezolana. Su opinión vale mierda.
Having family back there, I'm happy to see Maduro go.
Guaidó seems legit. I know people have flashbacks from the US meddling in the region in the 80s but this seems far more grassroots from what I hear from family. The "US is involved for oil" seems a bit moot considering the US has drastically increased their output and likely isn't starting to let up under Trump. Venezuela needs to diversify their economy in ways other than oil.
Guaidó seems legit. I know people have flashbacks from the US meddling in the region in the 80s but this seems far more grassroots from what I hear from family. The "US is involved for oil" seems a bit moot considering the US has drastically increased their output and likely isn't starting to let up under Trump. Venezuela needs to diversify their economy in ways other than oil.
Take a look at their posts. Not exactly a source to be trusted.
I hate these conversations because they inevitably get hijacked by whataboutism and the voices of Venezuelans drowned out by angsty righteous liberals and disingenuous right wing trolls and people with short memories about their own heritage of international adventurism.
We know America is bad.
We know Bolton is aroused by this opportunity.
We know we’ll make it worse.
But if you’re a Chavez or Maduro apologist get bent.
And if you think Russia is helping, get bent.
And if you say Maduro was democratically elected get bent.
I’m hoping this works itself out peacefully with long term improvements and I hope we stay out of anything except humanitarian support unless we’re invited by a sedate government of the people.
We know America is bad.
We know Bolton is aroused by this opportunity.
We know we’ll make it worse.
But if you’re a Chavez or Maduro apologist get bent.
And if you think Russia is helping, get bent.
And if you say Maduro was democratically elected get bent.
I’m hoping this works itself out peacefully with long term improvements and I hope we stay out of anything except humanitarian support unless we’re invited by a sedate government of the people.
nah man, you ain't shit unless you're ok with sacrificing countless lives in someone else's country to own the American hegemony.
Skepticism is warranted. But the people in this thread from Venezuela are saying the same thing.
Doesn't have a thing to do with the US (full disclosure, I'm a US citizen). It has to do with the people.
Do people not get what Machado is saying here? Maduro is actually a butcher. He's starving his people, he's getting them sick from preventable illness. You can be against potential imperialism and still prefer that long term problem to the short term problem of people dying of hunger and disease.
It's like people aren't watching the videos. Those are obviously civilian protestors getting run down by the government. The people are desperate, this isn't a bunch of guys with ARs just tearing down the presidential palace. People want this.
It's a fucking tragedy. People coming in here lol'ing and writing psuedo intellectual bs to excuse Maduros regime and trying to boil it down to left vs right politics when there are real life Venezuelans in the next post suffering and being ignored.
The mindset described here unfortunately isn't restricted to right-wing KKK/Nazi types. "I want to do ____, so I will just argue anything that justifies ____" is unfortunately a not uncommon and is completely and utterly toxic.
Outside from the US administrations are pretty different. And there wasn't really lied about Libya and Syria. Both had/have brutal dictatorships.
Hermano, sabes, entiendo que esto debe ser terriblemente duro para ti como para llegar a eso. En verdad te entiendo y por lo mismo siempre pienso que el resultado ojalá sea lo mejor para ustedes. Pero desde un país que fue intervenido, saboteado, etc. que termino´con más de 30.000 torturados, más de 3.000 desaparecidos, mujeres (hasta embarazadas) violadas hasta con ratas y perros, todo porque eran "la escoria socialista", y tener en el congreso y el gobierno personas que estuvieron involucradas en ello (que ahora apoyan a Guaido), de todo corazón espero que ustedes no se equivoquen en recibir la "ayuda" de Estados Unidos.
perfect time for that GTASA "oh shit here we go again" gif
lmao
edit: wasn't meaning to laugh at or offend any Venezuelans in here. the lmao and the comment was towards the inevitable US (err Bolton intervention.. most americans hate this shit i'd hope? but i mean it is 2019 so..) intervention going on right now. i don't support maduro either but i am against us intervention anywhere always. regardless i wish yall peace, safety, and unity.
Last edited:
Exacto, solo lean esta estupidez:
Con razon los moderadores de este lugar nunca banean gente que dice que los latinos son conservadores e insultan a los cubanos cada vez que pueden somo si fueran traidores, hasta los supuestos liberales solo nos ven como unos borregos confundidos que necesitamos ser guiados hacia los beneficios de su inmaculada luz.......todo esto mientras no tienen mayor problema con su propia administración enjaulando nuestros niños.
People are reacting to you like you're a tankie because you're prioritizng "assume the worst of the USA" over reports from actual Venezuelans about the levels of suffering and corruption present in the country, and because "assume the worst of imperialistic powers" is a useless tool for deciding on the right course of action when there are also imperialistic powers on machado's side.
don't be naive I know the situation of my country....go to the Refugee camp in Cucuta ...it would change your mind believe me.
Are you forgetting the support that Chavez/Maduro gets from Latin American government while he was destroying the country?
That's why is more complicated than Left and Right....Chavez was supported by Left and Right Government...Because the Money from Venezuelan Oil was pretty well received in all those countries.
In Latin America Left and Right are the same ...only change the color and the speech.
It’s okay to love cops, the military, and state violence to own Americans tho.
/s
Guaido will need the help of the military to get rid of Maduro.
Civilians vs Military can only have one outcome.
Guaido might have to do a devil's bargain with some of those high-ranking officers in regards to control of the Cartel if he wants the help of the military.
No tienen vergüenza esas personas. Mi lista con usuarios bloqueados creció considerablemente hoy. Dios mio.
Y que te hace pensar que cosas similares no estan pasando en venezuela? Hay gente siendo ejecutada en las calles por los colectivos de Maduro.
Yeah bro, hilarious lololo
Have you read Arendt? You never answered me on whether you had read Allen in the other thread (and I know you haven't read Marx). You might be surprised by what you find there if you engaged with the literature.
This is obviously ongoing with US backing...who are also behind the embargo which has played a significant role in creating the economic turmoil the country is experiencing (alongside the Chavez admins overeliance on oil).
I think Guido is a mad opportunity and Leopoldo is card carrying member of the Venezuelan elites who date back before Chavez. This guys are another form of bad, and have been involved in inciting violence within the country for some time. Need fucking elections with international oversight. The EU fucked up by backing Guido. Not the first time they have done that though. In the UK the EU only looks particularly progressive at the moment because we are so shit. Well Scotland is a bit better at least.
I think Guido is a mad opportunity and Leopoldo is card carrying member of the Venezuelan elites who date back before Chavez. This guys are another form of bad, and have been involved in inciting violence within the country for some time. Need fucking elections with international oversight. The EU fucked up by backing Guido. Not the first time they have done that though. In the UK the EU only looks particularly progressive at the moment because we are so shit. Well Scotland is a bit better at least.
Como Mexicano te puedo decir que no quieres un gobierno en cama con Estados Unidos. Yo jamas he vivido una situacion como la de los Venezolanos, pero aun asi, la violencia y pobreza aqui esta directamente relacionada con US y los politicos corruptos de este pais. supongo que es un circulo vicioso? Ser pobre y lleno de violencia, pero sin crisis humanitaria? tal vez.
Es cierto que existen prioridades y si Maduro se tiene que ir y evitar que mas gente muera de hambre que entonces eso se detenga primero. Sin embargo a mi no me van tampoco a decir lo que es vivir en un pais repleto de violencia y pobreza , donde US metio manos despues de una revolucion y creeme, apesta.
I don't think that whenever intervention happens in Venezuela will be remotely similar to what happened on Chile.
There's no reason for USA to support any authoritarian state in SA, unlike what happened during the 60's~80's, where there was the tension of the cold war and many SA countries (especially Brazil) got forced into dictatorships to force them to side with USA.
If you ignore the successes of Bachelet, Lula and the entire uruguayan left then sure.
Otherwise you are talking nonsense.
I hope all works out well, and that in purging an old nightmare a new one does not take its place.
Meanwhile Maduro offers collectivos, cronyism and mismanagement of state enterprises, but keep fighting the good fight.
Chavez didn't have this level of fuckery.
Believe me, I KNOW that the country is fucked up. You know, let me rephrase what I've been saying: Guaido support, to me, doesn't mean a thing with all of the hypocrisy surrounding those goverments. That doesn't mean that Maduro's shit.
But the only difference that those goverment has to give Venezuela a speech, and other countries a different one, is ideological and or an economic one.
No pienso eso. Trabajo con Venezolanos, me cuentan la realidad, etc. Tengo más que claro que Maduro se tiene que ir, no es igual que con Allende que fue lisa y llanamente saboteado. Me preocupa lo que viene después, y entiendo que para Venezuela es mejor tener la opción de que pueda ser mejor, y por eso espero que no estén equivocados.
I'm taking the quote, which is a very good way to describe the toxic "I want to do _____, so all arguments are merely ways to achieve ____" worldview. If thats the historical one, I've got the book and read the section Bouie was referencing but haven't dived into the whole thing.
And I'm really not interested in reading from the guy who wrote "The Jewish Question."
I hope you don't mind, JDSN, but I'd like to translate this for our American readers today.
"And what makes you think that similar things aren't already happening in Venezuela? There are people who've been executed in the streets by Maduro's collectives."
Guys. Guys. I want you to realize the paramilitary death squads are ALREADY THERE AND ALREADY KILLING INNOCENT PEOPLE AND THEY HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE U.S.
I'm disappointed in so many socialists here. You should know better by now than to support murderers just because they don't like the US.
Entiendo perfectamente, y creo que la mayoria de los venezolanos también entienden esto, asi como entienden que Guaido no es perfecto y que Marco Rubio solo esta intentando cosechar un nuevo grupo a quien engañar. Pero para propositos funcionales nadie tiene nada que perder en Venezuela, el fondo se toco hace mucho tiempo, la situación es desesperada y la cantidad de violencia que se esta inflingiendo en la población es incalculable. Nadie quiere ser la perra de EUA, pero un muerto con principios sigue siendo un muerto. Its a calculated risk that some racist ass Pussy-hat wearing lefties in this board dont get because deep down; for all the #resistance shit they share on facebook, they think us latinos are a bunch of memoryless children that need to be guided by the pure (white) gentle hand of american proggresives.
Last edited:
Es triste ver cómo hay personas que creen que entienden la situación sin haber vivido el infierno que los venezolanos están pasando. Y diciendo que Estados Unidos van a empeorar la situación tomando como base Iraq o Chile. Mierda, Maduro es un maldito déspota que recibe la ayuda de Putin, China y Cuba. Y aun así quieren que ese desgraciado se mantenga allí porque, fuck the USA, fuck Trump and fuck conservatives and republicans.
To all of you who continue supporting Maduro, drop it. This shit isn't about politics, about ideological lines of left or right. Any leftist person who supports Maduro is also supporting a dictatorship. Period. People there are fighting to get their country back from a criminal that has literally destroyed its economy, and yet you are arguing that the US and Trump shouldn't meddle in Venezuela after all the shit the US has done in the past. Well, look at this: Panama was invaded by the US. And we are doing fine, except with the corruption, but that's another topic.