Military uprising taking place in Venezuela (See Staff Post)
- Thread starter Noodle
- Start date
Maduro has to go. The whole thing has been a disaster. Go back. Try again later.
If you call yourself a socialist or if you you believe the ideals of Marxism because you are empathetic of your fellow humans’ pain, then you prioritize those emotions instead of winning the ideological argument.
People are suffering in Venezuela. We could argue imperialism all night long, but the reality of the situation in Venezuela is quite clear even taking into account propaganda. IT ISNT WORKING. IT ISNT PROVIDING WHAT SOCIALISM IS SUPPOSED TO PROVIDE. STOP DEFENDING THIS FAILURE.
If you call yourself a socialist or if you you believe the ideals of Marxism because you are empathetic of your fellow humans’ pain, then you prioritize those emotions instead of winning the ideological argument.
People are suffering in Venezuela. We could argue imperialism all night long, but the reality of the situation in Venezuela is quite clear even taking into account propaganda. IT ISNT WORKING. IT ISNT PROVIDING WHAT SOCIALISM IS SUPPOSED TO PROVIDE. STOP DEFENDING THIS FAILURE.
My guess is that they stereotyped them as the landowning class in Cuba before Castro and "they deserved it" or were "fuck you, I got mine" people who didn't want anymore refugees in the USA after they got in.
"Trump cant win even if it means a couple of brown people from the south must die."
*Bravely shares some hbomberguy vid on facebook*
Yeah, this is where I'm at. I think it's perfectly fair to be skeptical of the United States involvement here, but when you have posters talking about how it's so bad there that they would take literally any kind of help, maybe it's best not to tell them what's actually best for them
why is Juan Guaido an interim President? was he elected by the Venezuelan people and did he have a role in Government before the shit hit the fan?
Isn't there an argument to be made that US and International sanctions are also partly to blame for the current situation in Venuzuela?
He's the elected leader of their congress who's supposed to step in if there isn't a President. Since there haven't been legitimate elections in the past few years, this is the rationale for why it shoulds be him as a temporary measure.
The operative word here is "partly".
The US didn't cause the immense corruption or economic mismanagement of the government, and the initial Obama-era sanctions were not particularly stringent
Probably at least in part. The US has been trying to meddle in Venezuela for decades. Anytime a non far right government is in power in Latin America they are always vulnerable to American intervention. That said Venezuela made terrible decisions such as thinking oil prices would always be high and based their economy on that.
Clearly the USA is so interested in Venezuela oil that's why the embargo is in place...or something.
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By your logic you are now politically in step with Vladimir Putin. Will you be re-evaluating your stance on the issue?
This is what happens when your world view is so superficial, so reductionist that all the analysis you can muster is "Trump admin = bad, therefore anti-Trump = good" even if it that logic leads you to stanning for mass-murderers.
Tribalism is a hell of a drug.
This thread is almost as irritating as a typical Israel thread.
One thing to note is that the last time there was a oil price shock like this in the 80s, Venezuela didn't do very well either. They've had systemic governance issues that long predate Chavez/Maduro on top of the horrible mismanagement wrought by those two.
The purpose of the current embargo is to pressure regime change
Guaido's party has always been for privatization or partial privatization of Venezuelan oil and if they acquire power they will likely pursue such policies. This is more beneficial for US and US business interests than if oil is nationalized, as it is currently
My understanding is that this is not really "neoliberal dogma" and is more that Venezuela's oil infrastructure was so badly damaged by the botched nationalization (and deliberately hollowed out to make them more reliant on Cuba, Russia, etc.) that they just don't have the structural capabilities to refine their oil supply completely in house right now, no matter what inevitably happens.
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I'm having to repeat myself, but Syria is a stupid comparison. The "nation" of Syria as a concept is far more tenuous and unestablished. There are centuries of tribalism that existed long before the West partitioned the Middle East into a bunch of colonies that then gained independence. Not to mention the religious fundamentalist groups that are indifferent to borders. I don't think we have to worry about Aztec ISIS turning Venezuela into a failed state.
All you've done is shown you know nothing about either area.
The opposition parties won DOUBLE the number of seats in the last parliamentary elections than Maduro's party. In response Maduro created a brand new parliament and stuffed it full of cronies, including his own wife. What makes you think more elections will solve things?
Do you actually know anything about the situation? Like could you even find South America on a map?
Additionally, despite being continually characterised as "right wing" by the media, Guaido's Popular Will Party is a member of the Socialist International and part of their pitch for privatization is funnelling profits back into government programs
Because for lots of people their geopolitical knowledge extends only to "USA wants oil lol"
Ignoring that the United States is the largest producer of natural gas for a decade now
Because John Bolton literally said that it was about oil.
What exactly do you think the Trump administration is invested in over in Latin America? Do you think Donald Trump is really raring to go for a fight over the human rights of brown people?
Right? We're a fucking net oil exporter. There is zero reason to nationalize another countries oil supply especially when it's trash tier coming out of the ground.
What part of "the US wants to privatize oil" becomes "the US wants to nationalize oil" to you
And it's not interesting to you at all that RT is the number one hit on Google when you search that?
Dude in the Trump admin says some shit that helps Russia. Interesting.
Wait, we're getting into some galaxy brain stuff here.
The US stance on VZ is actually in Russia's interest. The US is a full on Russian proxy.
Shit.
Sanctions or not, chavismo was never sustainable. Chavez built up huge welfare programs, but turned the country into even more of a petrostate and never even tried to diversify the economy. So Venezuela ended up completely dependent on imports financed by oil money for basic goods. The whole system crumbling when oil prices crashed was inevitable.
Bolton is specifically worried because one of the biggest oil companies in the US (Citgo) is owned by the Venezuelan government. That is the reason.
I'm sorry Panama wasn't burning in 1989 and became the first Syria in the entire continent. I'm sorry everyone. The US should have fucked us more.
No, because I have the necessary amount of brain cells required to parse that RT is reporting a direct quote and that you can literally go watch the interview where he says it
For them to get that top spot they are doing a fuck ton of SEO on it.
Maduro accepted 2015 result elections, nice to know that the same system is not accepted years later but they do once the opposition won, in any case, the ANV, a legislative power, started taking power that didn't belong to them constitutionally. Maduro's used some legal trickery to nullify the ANV (ANV acceptance of parliamentary members charged with fraud), a paralel institution is created the AC.
Since then the opposition have been playing with violence, rebellion and coups. Both side are incredibly corrupted and antidemocratic.
You sure you aren't the one who simply gouges whatever american partisan media writes about the issue?
yep. i'm with you. i appreciate the Era member's commentary as being an individual who is experiencing everything first hand. Meanwhile, we have people in here, sitting in their air conditioned rooms in a comfortable computer chair and downing a second big mac, trying to act like they know EXACTLY what's going on.
edit: not against discussion. it's just some of these posts read very...well...just not very good.
Wow bud, that's really incredible - I'm sure they do. I'm also sure that RT is reporting on this because it serves Russian intelligence and political interests, and because RT functions as a propaganda mouthpiece for the Russian government
That also does not change the fact that John Bolton admitted that the state of Venezuelan oil is of concern to the US government
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You are equating the Venezuelan opposition to Maduro and the Chavismo? I can't believe it. Last I heard, the opposition didn't have criminals like the Colectivos working for them.
It's been a common technique forever for anti us dictatorships to point out things that are bad about the US. It doesn't make them incorrect. One of the Soviet Union's main talking points was about how bad the US treated black people and guess what...they were right!
Side-track:
How do you imagine they influenced the US election to begin with?
/side-track
I have no knowledge about the power relations in Venezuela as they are, nor do I understand the current ones. I do hope something better comes out of all this for its people and the posters on this board.
edit: I do however, understand that Maduro is literally a crazy person (just ask his parrot! ) and needs to be removed for something more reasonable.
that's... literally how they've been playing this game since at least 2015. Control the search, control the narrative.
How do you imagine they influenced the US election to begin with?
/side-track
I have no knowledge about the power relations in Venezuela as they are, nor do I understand the current ones. I do hope something better comes out of all this for its people and the posters on this board.
edit: I do however, understand that Maduro is literally a crazy person (just ask his parrot! ) and needs to be removed for something more reasonable.
Which is the same core issue that pre-Chavez Venezuela also had, because the state oil company was already nationalized a long time before he came in, and the problems derived from it led to popular discontent and another failed military coup...one attempted by Chavez himself, since history sometimes seems to love irony.
The funny thing is that the Venezuelan government itself has been loudly claiming for years that its electronic voting system is the best in the world and supposedly makes fraud nearly impossible, but then they turn around to accuse a few members of the opposition of carrying out fraud, precisely when they lost the majority of the legislative branch.
Damn, the tankies are out in full force in here.
Jesus.
Fuckers just hijacked our elections and installed an asset. They invaded Crimea. They execute opponents not even on their own soil. Y'all are fucking Russians or you're fucking dumb as fuck.
Fuck off with your stupid af whataboutism.
Jesus.
Fuckers just hijacked our elections and installed an asset. They invaded Crimea. They execute opponents not even on their own soil. Y'all are fucking Russians or you're fucking dumb as fuck.
Fuck off with your stupid af whataboutism.
But such whataboutism is literally employed to distract people from their own atrocities
I'm not equating both, I'm saying both don't deserve the reigns of the country. Another example Guaido burn the aid convoys and tried to blame Maduro. The guy is a piece of shit.
Just to be clear this sequence of events happened:
1. People in this thread were asking how this is about oil
2. MeaningofKarma posted a direct quote from John Bolton, on an interview aired on CNN, that you can go watch, explaining exactly how it is about oil
3. You started talking about the first website that comes up when you google it
And you are accusing other people of whataboutism? lol
It's perfectly fine to think Russia is acting in bad faith when they signal boost Bolton's words but they ARE his words and pretending they're immaterial to US motives is silly.
It was the NYT who claimed that. Unless you can give me other sources like WaPo or CNN, it was Maduro's cronies who burned it down.
And no, RT isn't valid. It is amazing people still use RT to inform themselves about what is happening in Venezuela. It is like watching Fox News to know what is happening in the US.
And as for Guaidó, he may be a piece of shit, but he isn't a dictator that kills his own people and makes them starve to death of by lack of medicines. And even if he gets into power, Maduro made sure to steal almost everything of value from the Government's coffers. Good luck trying to steal money from a ruined country.
WTF...even the company that organized the election certified that they rigged the results....
When the opposition won the National Assembly and leave Maduro without power, Maduro violates every process possible to there is no legal trickery or anything like that...Maduro creates an illegal Supreme Court and a parallel Assembly without using the legal process...and The Same Supreme Court and Assembly take out the powers from the legit Congres and let Maduro run an advance election. The only one playing with Violence and Coups is Maduro itself
Venezuela is ruled by a Dictator there is no both being corrupted and anti-democratic the Only fucking institution that has legal foundation is the National Assembly.
you're are talking some big level of bullshit here these guys has been ruling the country for like 19 Years....What fucking violence are you talking about, Rocks against Guns?
What does this even mean?
Why do you think John Bolton and Donald Trump are interested in regime change in Venezuela?
What do you people even think is happening? Like, seriously, I can't understand the actual framework you're looking at this from.
The US is interested in regime change because of oil, an opportunity to wag the dog, and a marketable foreign policy victory
What about this is crazy to you people