Guaido wants elections. Nothing comparable at all. There is a right side here, and you're clearly not on it. Not surprising, though.
Military uprising taking place in Venezuela (See Staff Post)
- Thread starter Noodle
- Start date
I see we've upgraded from rubber bullet shotguns to actual machine guns today.
I see a lot of people shaking hands with a man in the feed. No idea who he is though? Or which side I'm seeing?
Edit* NM, I was just seeing the old feed from the beginning. Anything live out there now?
I see a lot of people shaking hands with a man in the feed. No idea who he is though? Or which side I'm seeing?
Edit* NM, I was just seeing the old feed from the beginning. Anything live out there now?
I wish people would quit arguing like idiots. I'd like to know what's going on, which you have actually filled me in on earlier. I appreciate that.
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20 pages deep and I can't tell if this is a good thing or a bad thing. It's so split.
Looking at the situation from far you would think any uprising, from whatever source would be a welcome move but yet here we are people being against the opposition. Weird.
Looking at the situation from far you would think any uprising, from whatever source would be a welcome move but yet here we are people being against the opposition. Weird.
The poor Venezuelans have fled to Colombia and other South American nations and aren’t available to air their grievances.
But I’m sure you’ll find a way to conveniently dismiss them as well with some galaxy brain level of dumb hot take.
I mean, only 10% of the total population has fled. /s
Seeing as the cunt in charge is destroying every institution he can on his way out I’m not too hopeful.
Naturally this administration is shamefully silent about that, as expected.
Who in your eyes is a credible broker? The EU’s largely sided with Guaido, Morales will do anything to protect his best bolivarian buddy Maduro, China has oil interests and an actual fascist is running Brazil.
Uruguay?
So much this.
If supporting Bolsonaro's isn't allowed in this forum, supporting Maduro, which fills all facists checklists, shouldn't be too.
100 percent agree. This thread is maddening, and the amount of bullshit that is allowed without reprisal is stunning.
With the real anti-war left having a pretty good track record of calling these things out, that is the most likely thing and it probably won't be a few years either with the leaky ship Trump admin. Early this month it was already discovered a meeting took place with the CSIS and 15 days later bam.
I'm sorry I might have come off as a tankie, but while I definitely don't like Maduro's rule I don't see a coup staged by Guaido and his imperialist overlords to lead anywhere good, and seeing upperclassmen begging for the Americans to intervene and liberals clapping to it just makes me feel like nothing has been learned from history.
My position is something like this
Well for the record I don't support Maduro and you won't catch me doing so, but incidentally Bolsonaro is one of those teaming up with Guaido for the coup, further showing how rooting for the other side is pointless either.
Fuck off. Is Russian propaganda backing an unlawful dictator now allowed in ERA? How low have you fallen.
Please - continue to "not support" Maduro, by being actively against anything that removes him from power. Proving you have the ultimate seat of privilege by being preferential to a dictator keeping his hold on Venezuela. As a person of similar privilege, I'll let the Venezuelan people and Venezuelan's participating in this thread be my source of how to feel.
You are supporting Maduro by virtue of opposing any efforts to get him out. Comparing Guaido to him is dishonest as fuck. Fuck off.
The upper class Venezuelans with an education who speak English either left the country long ago or are part of the Chavista ruling elite.
"I don't support a dictator. I'm just against every realistic way to remove them from power by letting perfect be the enemy of better."
Sent from my iPad from a safe place with an abundance of food, water, and medicine, wearing a Che shirt
Sent from my iPad from a safe place with an abundance of food, water, and medicine, wearing a Che shirt
"I wanna hear from the real Venezuelans!
Not those.
No, not them either.
Only the ones that already agree with my particular and arbitrary ideology, fall into my quasi right wing obsession with race realism, and check every mark on my bourgeois "noble savage" romanticism of people in the third world."
Not those.
No, not them either.
Only the ones that already agree with my particular and arbitrary ideology, fall into my quasi right wing obsession with race realism, and check every mark on my bourgeois "noble savage" romanticism of people in the third world."
ITT "Fuck y'all Venezuelans, drinking sewage water from the Guairé or being a single transformer away at the Guri from a permanent national blackout or not being able to go for dyalisis and dying poisoned by your own blood. I got mine. I'll just go with whatever side Trump hates the most because I can afford that. Oh, the illegal, illegitimate Putin-backed one? coolio, I can do that, such luck that my moral character has the consistency of jello".
Then you are supporting Trump and Bolsonaro by virtue of literally siding with them
Every thread about Venezuela, every single one of them posts made by Venezuelans have been dismissed and labeled as White privileged Venezuelans who speak English, this is one of the most racist shit I've seen, making it seem that any other shade of skin is incapable of learning English.
English is taught in schools over there including public ones starting in high school. And they are exposed to English from movies and songs since they are kids.
Every thread Venezuelans have to to tell their stories, their struggles and where they come from how they are just regular citizens and not descendants of a white privileged elite, their posts are either ignored or attempted to be discredited by the "you speak English therefore white/rich/privileged". Their posts are greeted with plain out disbelief by those who don't want to believe that Maduro's regime is a reign of terror, I expect somebody to start asking for the Venezuelans skin color any moment now.
English is taught in schools over there including public ones starting in high school. And they are exposed to English from movies and songs since they are kids.
Every thread Venezuelans have to to tell their stories, their struggles and where they come from how they are just regular citizens and not descendants of a white privileged elite, their posts are either ignored or attempted to be discredited by the "you speak English therefore white/rich/privileged". Their posts are greeted with plain out disbelief by those who don't want to believe that Maduro's regime is a reign of terror, I expect somebody to start asking for the Venezuelans skin color any moment now.
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You don't understand, the people drinking water from the Guaire are white, educated and privileged, we should hear what people that actually have troubles have to say
I'll say that this thread has been more informative and given me a better picture of the situation than any of the news sources reporting it (who all have a locked in stance). It's too bad half the thread is melodramatic nasty insults, and I'm sorry there are a lot of cavalier takes about the very serious real world things happening in your country, but everyone needs to take opinions in this thread with a grain of salt anyway and remember that people editorializing in this thread don't actually matter or affect anything.
Opinions I can deal with, as my history on this forum and Gaf show. Many I don't agree with, some even bother me. But some posts in this thread are honestly offensive and disrespectful.
I have always believed this community had my back when it came to that. maybe I was wrong
If by that you mean supporting basically every nation except for China and Russia, who you are literally siding with by opposing means to remove Maduro from power, sure. You have posted consistently disastrous takes in this thread, which at least gives me hope that others will no longer consider anything you say to have the barest shred of merit in the future.
It's honestly like 6 posters who are responsible for most of the terrible takes in here. Some of that is ignorance, but certainly not all of it. I'm sure that if several of these posters actually were friends with Venezuelans in their daily lives, they would understand the situation better and not try to win some proxy war for socialism by caping for a dictator. By and large, I think the people on this forum do have your back, and do genuinely feel for the Venezuelan people.
You really shouldn't assume things about people in anonymous posting boards. Cause you can't see their faces or their life story. This is a diverse forum. Me for example, I am not white, I am Korean descent, but was born there. And while I am upper class right now, that wasn't always the case, and that's part of a long and complicated story that doesn't explain my opposition to PSUV, which includes some understanding of the harm of populism, and seeing the harm that they were causing when I lived back in Venezuela. And hey, even if that invalidates my story, you can't do that to everyone here. You don't know them and more likely than not, you screwed up in your assumption.
"Not supporting Maduro is supporting Trump!"
Ya'll realize that Maduro First then Guaido is a completely valid concept. "Revolution" isn't one singular event.
Ya'll realize that Maduro First then Guaido is a completely valid concept. "Revolution" isn't one singular event.
Yeah, on this whole "WHITE!" thing, I've noticed a recurring pattern with that Russian-owned shitheel of a "Progressive" Thom Hartmann that's continued on with this Coup ordeal.
Whenever there's a LatinX person he doesn't like, he plays a Race card with no facts to back it up insisting that said LatinX person "Is actually White by the way."
"DiD yOu KnOw ThE dRuG cArTeL lEaDeRs ArE aCtUaLlY wHiTe?" With some psuedogenetics trash about them being "Descended from the Conquistadors" and that their victims in Mexico are all pureblooded Aztec descendants.
And of course now he's calling Guaido a "White Nationalist Neo-Nazi" and insisting that if he wins that Guaido is going to start a genocide against all the brown people in Venezuela or at best start a new Apartheid. Like uh... What? Literally What?
Though given this is Thom Hartmann, I can only assume these are all Kremlin propaganda talking points given his extensive connection to Russia Today.
Whenever there's a LatinX person he doesn't like, he plays a Race card with no facts to back it up insisting that said LatinX person "Is actually White by the way."
"DiD yOu KnOw ThE dRuG cArTeL lEaDeRs ArE aCtUaLlY wHiTe?" With some psuedogenetics trash about them being "Descended from the Conquistadors" and that their victims in Mexico are all pureblooded Aztec descendants.
And of course now he's calling Guaido a "White Nationalist Neo-Nazi" and insisting that if he wins that Guaido is going to start a genocide against all the brown people in Venezuela or at best start a new Apartheid. Like uh... What? Literally What?
Though given this is Thom Hartmann, I can only assume these are all Kremlin propaganda talking points given his extensive connection to Russia Today.
Yes, they are, and they have been reported without consequence, not even a warning. Thats my point. I know most of you are not the problem
It is literal Russian propaganda that people are eating up because it's not what bad orange man wants. People have lost their fucking minds. The link to the article could be Kremlin.ru and it could be literally written by Maduro and those people would still be IKnewIt.gif
Well if you argue there's a secret majority of people who agree with you then you must be right. Guess the Venezuelan posters who've been posting for years about trying not to starve to death must be privileged jerks.
There have been people banned is this thread, report and explain why these people are being offensive and out of order and they should be dealt with
Where is my phrenology kit to determine if you're qualified to make such posts
C'mon now, we don't have to take Venezuelans posting in this thread as the final word on this (valuable as their contributions are, the limitations should be obvious), but to fall into this race essentialism nonsense is downright awful.
Imagine it being 2019 and people still think "BuT tHeY'rE kUlAkS" is a smart response to anything.
Dude stop, seriously. Trump and Bolsonaro just happen to be Presidents in the present tense.
It doesn`t matter if it would have been Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump in the Present. Maduro is a piece of shit who needs to go ASAP
Can I jump in this faction or is it too late?
You are the one that came up with the manichean take that not looking forward to Guaido and his primary allies is the same as backing Maduro, as if there aren't other possible position. Even the most criminally incompetent party of my country came to rhe position of holding new elections instead of automatically recognizing Guaido's appointment
I would say they're far less limited than the armchair socialists musing about how diplomacy is the true answer and how Maduro's reign is legitimate and exactly what the people wanted
Honestly, point out a single poster that is more qualified than our Venezuelan members to disagree with the the universal revulsion our Venezuelan members have for Maduro and their desire for literally anything else.
Who gives a fuck about Venezuelans?
I rather them dying because fuck Trump and Bolton!
Who gives a fuck about a completely broken economy and shortage of food and medicine?
The jokes on you, because That's just white Venezuelans propaganda!
Who gives a fuck about China and Russian interests in Venezuela?
It's the CIA and the U.S. who are the real devil here!
Desecrated graves? no electricity? Brown fowl smelling water whenever it runs?
t's the necons fucks fault. trying to destroy another Socialist country!
I rather them dying because fuck Trump and Bolton!
Who gives a fuck about a completely broken economy and shortage of food and medicine?
The jokes on you, because That's just white Venezuelans propaganda!
Who gives a fuck about China and Russian interests in Venezuela?
It's the CIA and the U.S. who are the real devil here!
Desecrated graves? no electricity? Brown fowl smelling water whenever it runs?
t's the necons fucks fault. trying to destroy another Socialist country!
Bloody tankies... If Trump wasn't president and we had Hillary Clinton or Bernie Sanders as president, you can bet your sweet ass we'd still be interfering with Venezuela to try and kick the tyrant out. People are suffering, and the longer this continues the worse it's going to be for them. Sure, I'd love a civil uprising, but even those need assistance from the outside. Americans couldn't have successfully revolt against the English back in the 1700s without the aid of France, for example.
Oh, ok we should just have elections then, why didn't we thought of this sooner
elections have been a sham in Valenzuela since Chavez's 2nd term.
Maduro's first win was marred in voter fraud
It's never too late to abandon binary bourgeois politics.
I don't think anyone should be looking to this thread for a good analysis of the situtation.
Generally though you should take anecdotal accounts of horrible situatuons like this as just one piece of information, realizing its really hard for someone going through hell to decenter themselves and provide a dispassionate analysis.
I don't know about you, but I rather let this che guevara look alike from a first world country and the other dude at his side tell me what is happening in Venezuela and what should be done, they look more in the know that Venezuelans, let alone the ones here that might be White and Rich.
I wonder if WBAI will address this when I listen to them on the radio later. They tend to be very pro-Maduro and have regularly tried to assure viewers Venezuela is fine.
