Military uprising taking place in Venezuela (See Staff Post)

Palette Swap

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,913
No, people would vote him out.
You have to respect democracy. And Maduro like it or not has millions of followers. The answer is more democracy, more dialog, more international actors, the US ending its terrible sanctions, etc etc. The answer is not a civil war. That just shows how little you care for venezuelan people.
I can’t tell if you’re ignorant or dishonest, but this literally can’t happen in Venezuela right now.
 

FreezeSSC

Member
Oct 27, 2017
609
Not trying to be a dick. But there's a reason a lot of people from latin America dont want a US backed coup, they did it here and took the coutnry for 17 years killing people. Its not just being "willfully ignorant".

Even Venezuelan friends that are living here know that things can go worse with US Intervention.
To try is to be human.
 

NH Apache

Member
Oct 25, 2017
956
New Orleans, LA
No, people would vote him out.
You have to respect democracy. And Maduro like it or not has millions of followers. The answer is more democracy, more dialog, more international actors, the US ending its terrible sanctions, etc etc. The answer is not a civil war. That just shows how little you care for venezuelan people.
Elections in Venezuela are almost as real as North Korea. The supreme court is packed with people loyal to maduro money. There is no option without the military.
 
Nov 9, 2017
1,446
You get the feeling that some people here care less about the actual Venezuelans who are suffering and starving (some of who are fellow posters on this forum) than what could be perceived as a possible Trump victory.
Yeah. Imagine not having water, 8 hours of energy cuts daily, the slowest internet in the world (or not internet at all), the biggest inflation in the world, the worst justice system in the world (or at least one of the worst), your friends flying the country, your family dead.

We want our freedom. A normal, civilian life. I just guys can't comprehend that, shame on you, really. You guys are worst than them
I'm truly sorry about your situation. Know that there are a lot of people who are thinking about your safety and hoping for the well-being of you, your family, and your countrymen. Regardless of the politics, you guys need to get your country back for the people.
 

Deffers

Member
Mar 4, 2018
1,059
No, people would vote him out.
You have to respect democracy. And Maduro like it or not has millions of followers. The answer is more democracy, more dialog, more international actors, the US ending its terrible sanctions, etc etc. The answer is not a civil war. That just shows how little you care for venezuelan people.
Don't speak on what you know NOTHING about. He was voted out unanimously by National Assembly so he made a second layer of it loyal to him. Violence was going to happen one way or another even well before then. I was just hopeful it wouldn't involve Guaido.
 

Jebusman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,247
Halifax, NS
Not trying to be a dick. But there's a reason a lot of people from latin America dont want a US backed coup, they did it here and took the coutnry for 17 years killing people. Its not just being "willfully ignorant".

Even Venezuelan friends that are living here know that things can go worse with US Intervention.
This is reaching concern trolling here. Venezuela is the country equivalent of a tire fire right now. There's very little that can get actually worse at this point.
 

Einchy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,320
No, people would vote him out.
You have to respect democracy. And Maduro like it or not has millions of followers. The answer is more democracy, more dialog, more international actors, the US ending its terrible sanctions, etc etc. The answer is not a civil war. That just shows how little you care for venezuelan people.
Yeah, vote Maduro out! It’s that simple!
 

Almagest

Member
Oct 28, 2017
944
Spain
No, people would vote him out.
You have to respect democracy. And Maduro like it or not has millions of followers. The answer is more democracy, more dialog, more international actors, the US ending its terrible sanctions, etc etc. The answer is not a civil war. That just shows how little you care for venezuelan people.
And while all this comes to fruition, if it ever does because it sounds fantastical, millions of people suffer and starve and are targeted for elimination by the corrupt military in the streets?

How hard is it to understand that people there are suffering every day? Idealism is good in measure but let's try to be empathetic and understand that people in Venezuela are not willing or able to continue like this for years.
 

Simon21

Member
Apr 25, 2018
339
"Hello, I'm an American leftist, and I'm here to tell you poor brown people about how only I truly know what is best for you".
 
Staff Post: Discussion Guidelines (read before posting)

Finale Fireworker

Love each other or die trying.
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
5,433
ResetEra
Official Staff Communication
As this situation develops, please remember to keep this discussion civil. Maduro is an actual dictator who has regularly employed violence against his own people; emotions are therefore bound to be running high. It is not off-limits to support his ouster, but please avoid cheerleading for bloodshed on any side. We will issue bans if things get out of hand.
 

Ac30

Member
Oct 30, 2017
10,845
London
You get the feeling that some people here care less about the actual Venezuelans who are suffering and starving (some of who are fellow posters on this forum) than what could be perceived as a possible Trump victory.
What's even more bizarre is that there isn't a Trump victory to be had unless they let him spin it into one. People need to stop trying to fucking making this about defending International Socialism or whatever because that's literally what Trump wants for 2020.

Point to the laundry list of successful social democracies if you're going to argue for leftist policies instead of defending this asshole.
 

RocknRola

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,467
Portugal
No, people would vote him out.
You have to respect democracy. And Maduro like it or not has millions of followers. The answer is more democracy, more dialog, more international actors, the US ending its terrible sanctions, etc etc. The answer is not a civil war. That just shows how little you care for venezuelan people.
This is the dumbest shit I've read all year so far. Good job at shilling a dictator or being completely ignorant of the reality in Venezuela.

Try to watch the news and listen to people who actually live there to understand why what you just said is no only amazingly dumb, but also tremendously insulting for Venezuelans.
 

Black_Red

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,199
This is reaching concern trolling here. Venezuela is the country equivalent of a tire fire right now. There's very little that can get actually worse at this point.
How is it concern trolling? because I'm corcerned about what will happen once they put another military in charge?.

Dont think that just because people are disagreeing with you then they are trolling. In Chile the military that the US put in charge if the country killed people on Tv, used dogs and rats to rape woman and we still cant find all of the dead people (more than 2000).

Maduro needs to go, no one is denying that, but this will can be "de la sarten al fuego".
 

Deffers

Member
Mar 4, 2018
1,059
"Hello, I'm an American leftist, and I'm here to tell you poor brown people about how only I truly know what is best for you".
It's staggering. I'm Venezuelan, I'm socialist, and I can tell you right now FUCK EVERY SINGLE CHAVISTA, MADURO IS A MONSTER. That's my message which I am effectively screaming into the void over and over again in support of my fellow Venezuelans.

Venezuela is a resource-rich country and a lot of foreign interests are going to want to use those resources. That's almost inevitable. But that's a long-term evil that's only ALMOST inevitable. The short term, immediate evil is people starving, dying of preventable illness, and getting killed by the military or paramilitary, with Maduro's extended rule giving us a guarantee of just as much being stolen from the average person with a side-dose of human misery. If there was some third option where Maduro and his armed goons just *ceased to be* and autonomous syndicalism suddenly sprang up, that'd be great. That isn't what's happening. The best time to plant a tree was ten years ago.

We have what we have and what we have is already paramilitary death squads. Supporting Maduro is the WRONG idea even if you think the best thing that could happen is Guadio T-posing and falling through the ground the second he wins.

PLEASE don't forget the people who are suffering right now, is all I ask. They WILL need help no matter what.
 

Mugy

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,124
I can understand people who doesn't like Trump. I don't like him either. I'm open to debate to anybody who thinks theres other ways. Its nice to read some solid opinions from people who don't live here. Because that is what democracy is all about.

But please, don't tell us Venezuelans this is a coup or that stupid crap, because ain't true.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,719
No, people would vote him out.
You have to respect democracy. And Maduro like it or not has millions of followers. The answer is more democracy, more dialog, more international actors, the US ending its terrible sanctions, etc etc. The answer is not a civil war. That just shows how little you care for venezuelan people.
Oh shit, someone should tell the Venezuelans to try that.
 

NoMoreTrolls

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,951
Texas
*throwing away a full gallon of milk because it’s expiring soon. Eating my fourth meal of the day.*

You just gotta, like, respect Democracy, man.
These threads are always fucking infuriating. I hate how uninformed and wilfully ignorant so many posters are about VZ, spouting nonsense like "Trump just wants their oil" as if the US is the only Western country backing the opposition (hint: they aren't, by a long shot), and as if the US even has a need for the poor quality, highly expensive to produce Venezuelan crude oil when the US has a literal unending ocean of much more economically viable oil to produce that could last for a hundred years.

Get informed before stanning for a literal bloodthirsty dictator just because you want to oppose anything Trump is remotely for. People are starving to death, and dying from a lack of chemo, diabetes, and other medications. People lack power for large parts of most days, and the average wage is at this point worth somewhere south of a dollar a day. This is a genuine humanitarian crisis, not something to grandstand about to win political points for socialism to own the Republicans
 

Bluelote

Member
Oct 27, 2017
869
Maduro is authoritharian and extremely incompetent at running a country, Venezuela deserves better
 

JonnyDBrit

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,859
This seems less like an uprising and more like a publicity stunt
There's likely an element of such involved. Guaido doesn't seem to have made that much headway in terms of swaying the military, so this broadcast may be an attempt to try and rally more to his side by way of telling them the opportunity is now.
 

Mugy

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,124
By the way, almost all social networking plus Google is blocked here. So i'm gonna follow this thread for updates. Thanks in advance to anybody who keeps the thread up to date
 

Deffers

Member
Mar 4, 2018
1,059
What's even more bizarre is that there isn't a Trump victory to be had unless they let him spin it into one. People need to stop trying to fucking making this about defending International Socialism or whatever because that's literally what Trump wants for 2020.

Point to the laundry list of successful social democracies if you're going to argue for leftist policies instead of defending this asshole.
As an unashamed radical, point to ALMOST ANY OTHER SOCIALIST ALIVE. It's a step up.

By the way, almost all social networking plus Google is blocked here. So i'm gonna follow this thread for updates. Thanks in advance to anybody who keeps the thread up to date
I'll let you know if I hear anything from my family, but I can't guarantee I'll have any better info than you. Waiting for my mom to wake up in a few minutes before we'll likely start trying to call people.
 

Syagrius

Member
Apr 23, 2019
59
What I'm wondering about is the current strategy to depose of Maduro. What's Guaido up to? I'm looking currently at a few livestreams of civilians who are flocking in the streets. Are they trying to repeat the Sudan scenario?
(Sudanis recently staged a massive sit-in in front of the biggest military facility in the centre of Kharthoum(capital) , which convinced a number of low-ranking and upper-ranking soldiers to depose of Bahir.)
 

Mugy

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,124
As an unashamed radical, point to ALMOST ANY OTHER SOCIALIST ALIVE. It's a step up.



I'll let you know if I hear anything from my family, but I can't guarantee I'll have any better info than you. Waiting for my mom to wake up in a few minutes before we'll likely start trying to call people.
Neat. For non-venezuelan people: Venezuela doesn't have a single news channel that is not pro-dictatorship. So nobody can access news via TV

But yeah, lets vote maduro out
 

mario_O

Member
Nov 15, 2017
1,319
What I'm wondering about is the current strategy to depose of Maduro. What's Guaido up to? I'm looking currently at a few livestreams of civilians who are flocking in the streets. Are they trying to repeat the Sudan scenario?
(Sudanis recently staged a massive sit-in in front of the biggest military facility in the centre of Kharthoum(capital) , which convinced a number of low-ranking and upper-ranking soldiers to depose of Bahir.)
What some analysts are saying is that Guaido is looking for his Casus Belli here, to justify US military intervention in the country.
 

Anti

Member
Nov 22, 2017
1,873
Australia
No, people would vote him out.
You have to respect democracy. And Maduro like it or not has millions of followers. The answer is more democracy, more dialog, more international actors, the US ending its terrible sanctions, etc etc. The answer is not a civil war. That just shows how little you care for venezuelan people.
WTF is this post?
 

Frozenprince

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,930
What Venezuela needs is for the IMF and world bank to restructure or outright forgive its debts so that it can reign in the rampant inflation that is directly US influenced.

Not armed fucking insurrection which wont actually change anything.
 

Frozenprince

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,930
What's even more bizarre is that there isn't a Trump victory to be had unless they let him spin it into one. People need to stop trying to fucking making this about defending International Socialism or whatever because that's literally what Trump wants for 2020.

Point to the laundry list of successful social democracies if you're going to argue for leftist policies instead of defending this asshole.
The only avenues that see peopleargue that it is a defense of the international socialist solidarity are people who presuppose that on leftist critics of open or tacit US intervention.

More death isn't an answer to anything.
 

Palette Swap

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,913
What Venezuela needs is for the IMF and world bank to restructure or outright forgive its debts so that it can reign in the rampant inflation that is directly US influenced.
I agree but any monetary solution can’t happen with Maduro in power, and a semblance of democracy restored, which leads to the issue of political solutions.

I don’t believe for a second a foreign military intervention is a good or even passable political solution, mind you. But deposing Maduro, rolling back his antidemocratic reforms and organizing free elections look like necessary steps.
 

Mugy

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,124
I agree death is not answer. But the dead is coming from the dictator. He is the one killing us all, not the other way around. And he ain't gonna give up, because that is what dictators do.

Its been 20 years. More than 250k people dead in the last years. More than 3.5 million of Venezuela inmigrants all over the world. The stole us our freedom, our space, everything. This needs to end, one way or the other
 

Frozenprince

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,930
I agree but any monetary solution can’t happen with Maduro in power, and a semblance of democracy restored, which leads to the issue of political solutions.

I don’t believe for a second a foreign military intervention is a good or even passable political solution, mind you. But deposing Maduro, rolling back his antidemocratic reforms and organizing free elections look like necessary steps.
None of those are happening with an armed coup. This is just replacing one junta with another. The international financial industry and the international community could easily solve much of theoverwhelming burden placed on the Venezuelan system and the average citizen if it were so inclined. Nothing butinterests wanting a direct hand in crafting Venezuelan monetary policy is going to happen through war.