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Military uprising taking place in Venezuela (See Staff Post)
- Thread starter Noodle
- Start date
None of those are happening with an armed coup. This is just replacing one junta with another. The international financial industry and the international community could easily solve much of theoverwhelming burden placed on the Venezuelan system and the average citizen if it were so inclined. Nothing butinterests wanting a direct hand in crafting Venezuelan monetary policy is going to happen through war.
You know, we like to think that we have it bad in America, and that America is being run by a group of thugs (and to an extent that is true), but i dont think most of us can comprehend the situation going on in Venezuela. Looking at the entire situation through "American eyes" isnt going to give us a good picture. Listening to the people who are actually there going through this will give us a much better view of what is going on there and why what is going on today is needed.
Maduro is a man who has thrown the country's "democracy" out the window, has ran the country into the ground, and has made life a living hell for most of the population he is over. People here have been criticizing this "coup" (although legally i dont think that word applies here) because they suspect its backed by Trump. Even if that turns out to be true, if it can improve the life of the citizens in Venezuela then i think its pretty selfish to say this coup shouldn't be happening because of his involvement.
Maduro is a man who has thrown the country's "democracy" out the window, has ran the country into the ground, and has made life a living hell for most of the population he is over. People here have been criticizing this "coup" (although legally i dont think that word applies here) because they suspect its backed by Trump. Even if that turns out to be true, if it can improve the life of the citizens in Venezuela then i think its pretty selfish to say this coup shouldn't be happening because of his involvement.
The thing is, nothing you describe explains how Venezuelans get rid of their current dictatorship.
(Edit to be clear on where I'm speaking from: I think US adventurism and imperialism has been one of the worst things to happen to this world over the past 70 years, I just don't see how you solve this one without any kind of violence)
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Legit. This is obviously financial interests wanting in on Venezuelan resources. They are staggeringly plentiful, you have NO idea. From copper to Coltan. Oil is just the least of it.
But people are dying NOW. Of preventable illness NOW. Of starvation NOW. Being ruled by a military dictatorship NOW. It's... this is not the ideal. This is what is happening.
Hope that this is the catalyst for change without bloodshed. However I feel that this won't force Maduro to resign and instead be used as a pretense for Maduro to take out his opposition because this doesn't feel large scale.
They are heavily indebted to China and Russia as well and their oil infrastructure is in shambles, they would need hundreds of millions before they can even start to rebuild - and heavy dependence on oil is what hurt them the first time.
Maduro clearly has no interest in fixing the country.
When this escalates into a Civil War I'm sure Chile will help with military force. Right from the President who said, when asked about human rights violations in China, that "every country can rule itself as pleased" after condemning Venezuela multiple times. The only difference is where he and his people can make business.
I hope whatever it comes is the best for the Venezuelan people, but being a US puppet isn't going to be better in the long term, and some 20 years later we'll know if, and if it is, how deep the US was in sabotaging like they did everywhere else.
What surprised me is how long it took them to make this move. I mean, Red Cross, EU and UN humanitarian help is getting into the country, it seems that they should have done it when this wasn't happening
I hope whatever it comes is the best for the Venezuelan people, but being a US puppet isn't going to be better in the long term, and some 20 years later we'll know if, and if it is, how deep the US was in sabotaging like they did everywhere else.
What surprised me is how long it took them to make this move. I mean, Red Cross, EU and UN humanitarian help is getting into the country, it seems that they should have done it when this wasn't happening
Replacing one junta with another isn't going to keep the rest of the world from it's Ill gotten plunder.
People wouldn't be dying, starving, or so broken if they had just alleviated the debts or restructured them in the first place, which they didn't by design.
This has been manufactured from word go simply to control who sits in the big boy chair.
That's not escaping my observation. Unfortunately, people are already dying and there's no riding that out, no passing that over. No way it's preferable. Maduro has his own paramilitaries and you should not ignore the Hell they've already visited on people. The number of people who have fled Venezuela already is staggering, as is the number of people who've died. They've already got a full-blown refugee crisis on their hands.
You're effectively asking me if economic oppression tomorrow with the POTENTIAL for further political oppression is worse than political and economic oppression TODAY AND FOREVERMORE. It's a roll of the dice away from endless misery, even if the dice are loaded. It's really not as simple as you want to paint it.
The crisis in Venezuela is almost entirely self inflicted. If debt was Venzuelas biggest problem the country wouldn't be in the state it's in.
Their criplling debt is a consequence of their political turmoil, not it's origin.
Chavismo needs to die.
Godspeed to the people of Venezuela.
A bit more selfishly, I hope this disrupts any funding that Mel Zelaya in Honduras might have been receiving from Venezuela.
Godspeed to the people of Venezuela.
A bit more selfishly, I hope this disrupts any funding that Mel Zelaya in Honduras might have been receiving from Venezuela.
OP
OP
You are either wilfully ignorant or deliberately spreading misinformation.
Let's put aside the disputed presidential elections and focus on something even you can't wish away, the National Assembly elections.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Assembly_(Venezuela)#Latest_election
The opposition coalition won 109 seats to Maduro's 55. That's 2 million more votes. In response Maduro decided to create a brand new legislative branch and stack it with his cronies, including his own wife. That's the equivalent of Trump creating a whole new Congress because he didn't like how the mid-terms turned out.
Surely for you to have such a strong opinion on Venezuela you must have been aware of this fundamental change in government, right? Where were your calls for "more democracy" then?
Except Maduro wasn't interested in doing that since he's a dictator. The US isn't doing that, Maduro and his supporters (Russia, China and Cuba) are.
I liked the plan you had, as it sounded reasonable and had nothing to do with bloodshed. The factor you're not accounting for is Maduro and the bad actors who want him to stay there who are an obstacle to this occurring.
You say this as though it was reasonable to assume this was going to play out without violence in some form, when all signs point to that coming closer to the day since Maduro isn't leaving voluntarily.
The US are bad guys, on that we agree, but I don't see any other options to getting the government on track to something functional. Leaving Maduro alone isn't the solution.
Then tell Maduro to release all political prisoners, restore democracy by holding free and fair elections and dissolve the Constituent Assembly.
If Maduro is not a bad guy, why has he banned political opposition, rigged elections and systematically raided the finances of PDVSA for his own ends?
Maduro is a tinpot dictator and the solution to the crisis is for him to step aside and give the people their rights back.
Maduro has done nothing but drive Venezuela into ruin and inflict suffering and starvation on the people there. Hopefully he is deposed with no bloodshed and the new regime is purely technocratic until an actual election allows the people to choose.
Sadly it seemed uprising was inevitable with path Maduro took.
Sadly it seemed uprising was inevitable with path Maduro took.
Maduro should put a bullet on his head just for giving the venezuelan right wing, a position of victim.
Hopefully the coup goes nowhere so no more people die.
Hopefully the coup goes nowhere so no more people die.
No.
Maduro done this by losing an election and then creating a new assembly to ignore democracy.
He can end the crisis himself, by leaving.
Yes, mercs were sent in months back. Under Chavez Venezuela became a Russian vassal state. They want to maintain their investment.
If you want an actual "socialist" (aka social dem) state in S. A., Bolivia is right there, not the one thats had propaganda spewed for decades.
No, this has not been manufactured. The IMF cannot create massive hyperinflation in a single nation from their banks. The economic collapse is entirely on the hands of Chavez/Maduro here as their awful, awful policies trainwrecked their nation.
He's backed by basically the entirety of the west (Canada, EU), along with almost all of South America...
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Yet, Morales is clinging to power and doesn't want to leave. Remember in 2016 there was a referendum to see if he could run again, but he lost. Ignoring that, he still pretends to run again this year. If he has the votes to win a 4th presidency, I don't know, but Morales certainly ignored what the population wants.
Indeed, Bolivia has a much better managed socialism. It is actually one of the better growing economies of the region. Chavez to an extent but mostly Maduro wasn't capable of tackling problems before they exploded.
He is literally the current elected leader of the congress, the last remaining actually democratically elected institution left.
No is not, economic sanctions can lead to shortages of goods, and so they became more expensive, boom hyper inflation
Ultimately, you're not wrong on this one. Chavez instituted some good policies towards the beginning, if that, and then went off on some goddamn nonsense for the rest of his life-- and Maduro managed to screw up everything Chavez hadn't. I can vouch for that much. Clumsy nationalization efforts compounding on top of each other, over-reliance on petroleum that, ironically, NEEDS the US to be properly processed... a compounding set of endless disasters. I'm sure I've forgotten some.
Bolivia is still a really poor country. If you want some solid Social Democracy you are looking for Uruguay, it's the second most developed country in AL (only behind Chile, which is more libertarian)
The same could be asked for all the Xi and Putin supporters on here. It's scary.
Maduro made sure that he can't be voted out. A peaceful transition of power to the opposition is not intended in socialism. The only time it happened was here in Germany in 1990 but only because the people of East Germany were also citizens of West Germany and the socalistic regime had no other choice than to give up its power after the fall of the Berlin wall. It would have become a state without people.
Though South America is mostly right wing or far-right government. I mean Argentina is just as fucked as Venezuela but no one gets there.
My President in Chile has condemned Venezuela but in regards to HR violations in China he says that "every country has the right to rule itself". Guess with which country he sent his own sons to business meetings. Goverments like that arent a good "back up" really. Nor is Trump or Trudeau.
Have you ever hate the US / or the GOP so much, that you hand-wave the documented realities of Venezuelans, the testimonials of real Venezuelans living there posted in this forum and try to focus on the technicalities of the Venezuelan crisis to try to have a moral victory? Fuck Venezuelans, I know what's good for them better than they do.
This just shows how little you know about what is happening in Venezuela. Maduro will never leave the power unless he is forced to. If that means he needs to continue destroying the country and make people starve to death or even kill them with the military, he will gladly do it.
This is not what happened in Venezuela, where the drop in oil prices, rampant mismanagement of the oil industry, corruption at basically all levels and printing money like crazy created a nightmare scenario for the nation.
They already did.
The parliament elections went to the opposition.
He then created a new assembly to ignore democracy, banned opposition figures from politics, and rigged the subsequent presidential election.
If you want democracy in Venezuela, you want Maduro gone.
This. You can be against the sanctions, but they are not the cause of the nightmare in Venezuela, currently.
My thoughts are with the Venezuelan people. The current situation is untenable, but a pivot to neoliberal austerity, while initially will be supported by the US and the West, isn't an ideal outcome. Here's hoping for a peaceful resolution soon.
I'm sorry you and the rest of your nation is going through this, I hope it is over for you soon.
Argentina's endless crises are quite the sight to behold, but even under Kirchner they hadn't hit Venezuela's levels of crises.
Not that golden boy Macri is much of an improvement.
Everyone's talking about oil...
But I suspect that the Cartel of the Suns - supposedly headed by Diosdado Cabello, President of the Constituent Assembly - is the real shadow president in Venezuela.
Oil money might not be flowing into Venezuela, but the drug trafficking money is more than abundant and is what has kept Maduro in power.
But I suspect that the Cartel of the Suns - supposedly headed by Diosdado Cabello, President of the Constituent Assembly - is the real shadow president in Venezuela.
Oil money might not be flowing into Venezuela, but the drug trafficking money is more than abundant and is what has kept Maduro in power.
Stay safe.
Reuters reporting a rally from the military base has set off. This could be pretty critical.
Ojala mi pana, ojala que el maldito ese caiga con todas sus ratas. Mantenos informados.
It's not simply about Trump. It's easy to see why people would be weary of the U.S. intervening in a foreign country affair. It's usually because once thet get rid of the leader the follow up isn't good and simply leads to a power vacuum. If Maduro does get taken out of power. All these countires that backed guaido need to step up and actually give Venezuela the aid they'll need.