Mindhunter | Netflix | - No love for fincher?

Disco

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,388
The Get Down would like a word with you. :(

Still pissed that they cancelled that.
they dropped the ball big time on the second half tbh. but man if we just counted portions then that first half is my favorite Netflix Original tv show yet.

otherwise I think Mindhunter is the best netflix show. and the first instance where I think one of their series stands up to cable programming. very excited for the second season. Holt McCallany is awesome as well, aside from Fight Club only other thing I remember him in was his role in Blackhat. Man needs to be cast more, he's got a distinctive voice.
 

Alice

Member
Nov 2, 2017
4,269
they dropped the ball big time on the second half tbh. but man if we just counted portions then that first half is my favorite Netflix Original tv show yet.
I honestly have stronger memories for the first half, than the second half. I would just have liked to see their journey have a destination since the show ended with very strong cliffhangers. :/

I'll agree on Mindhunter, though, it was a great show. Binged it in one sitting and don't regret it one bit.
 

dmoe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,156
Just finished. I’m big into serial killers. Loved this show so much. Hope we get another season.
 

Deleted member 11262

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,459
they dropped the ball big time on the second half tbh. but man if we just counted portions then that first half is my favorite Netflix Original tv show yet.

otherwise I think Mindhunter is the best netflix show. and the first instance where I think one of their series stands up to cable programming. very excited for the second season. Holt McCallany is awesome as well, aside from Fight Club only other thing I remember him in was his role in Blackhat. Man needs to be cast more, he's got a distinctive voice.
What?
Ehhm...the first two seasons of House of Cards are exceptionally good and despite being their first production imo it still is the best thing they produced until today. Stranger Things S1 comes close to that greatness and after that...yeah I would consider to name Mindhunter.
And as much as I dislike the premise behind 13 Reasons Why (and stopped watching it for that matter right after episode 2) it still easily "stands up to cable programming".
Just like Narcos, Daredevil, Ozark, Marco Polo, The Crown, The OA. They all have their shortcomings, but they're at least average/good in the big picture.
 

ClivePwned

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,247
Cambridge, UK
I finished this last night and took a few weeks to watch the whole thing (with a Stranger Things 2 binge in the middle). I really enjoyed it and would def
watch a Season 2 if that goes ahead.
 

dabig2

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,858
Show was fantastic. It had a sorta slow start, but I was still hooked from the get go. Psychological thriller stuff like this is right up my alley. I loved almost all the characters in this, Holden too. And it was hard not to root for him despite his arrogance building up after every success they had. The FBI was way too stiff and conservative. And also fuck that creepy principal. If those were my kids, I would have been tossed in jail for laying him out.

And I did love how they showed the other side of profiling. When it works and you're right, then good. But it can be abused and when you're wrong, you can absolutely destroy lives. See the Central Park 5 for an absolute failure of the system. Or just see profiling in general being used and abused by local constabularies. I hope they get into that a bit more next season. They could've gotten more into that aspect with the possibility of murderous vagrants in that 1 town where it ended up being the 3 family members who murdered that girl.

And more Kemper please.
 

Currygan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
307
How long would you say it took you to be hooked? I'm really thinking about calling it quits after episode 2, as there is so much to see that it's hard to stick with a series that doesn't grab you immediatly.
Like I said, once Kemper is introduced you either get slowly but surely captivated by the atmosphere and conversations with him and his creepy, deranged behaviour, which pretty much illustrates how the serie has been constructed, or bored by it. It was the moment I realized Mindhunter really is like a play, where conversations between characters make the most of the viewer's pleasure ( or bore them)


Ps not many people saw Glow I take it? BY FAR my favourite Netflix show, even better than The Crown
 
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Glass

Member
Oct 26, 2017
297
Principal character spoilers
As much as I wanted to know what the final resolution might be with this guy, it was pretty great how we just flat out don't know, it was a messy situation from the get go and doesn't get neatly resolved.
.
 

bud

Member
Oct 27, 2017
253
they dropped the ball big time on the second half tbh. but man if we just counted portions then that first half is my favorite Netflix Original tv show yet.

otherwise I think Mindhunter is the best netflix show. and the first instance where I think one of their series stands up to cable programming. very excited for the second season. Holt McCallany is awesome as well, aside from Fight Club only other thing I remember him in was his role in Blackhat. Man needs to be cast more, he's got a distinctive voice.
you just blew my mind.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCi_PIz5ekU

i knew he seemed familiar.
 

Scullibundo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,584
Wife and I finally finished it. Loved it and immediately double checked that it had already been renewed for another season.

In terms of my favourite Netflix show, this year my favourite show period has been season 2 of Master if None, which was absolutely stellar.

Next up is The Deuce.
 

Ocean Bones

Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
1,997
My favorite Netflix series easily. That last scene was intense. And thats BTK they were teasing throughout the season right?

Hope we get season 2.
 

Rad Bandolar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,763
SoCal
My favorite running bit throughout the season was the constant machine gun fire whenever two characters were talking at the FBI facility.
 

milch

Member
Oct 25, 2017
524
American Vandal is the real MVP.

Mindhunter had a lot of scenes that felt very written. The scene where they come up with "Serial Killer" is a prime example. Just doesn't feel like a natural conversation.
 

GUMDROP

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
375
I love the show and this is really pedantic, but every time someone notes that the show was directed by David Fincher I feel an urge to tell them that he only directed four episodes.
 

Jiggy

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
4,418
wherever
I really enjoyed it. I liked how Holden was such a weird and uncomfortable little dude. It makes sense given how he seems to connect better with Ed Kemper than his girlfriend or co-workers.
 

Ryo Hazuki

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,364
For anyone bored as fuck after the first couple episodes thinking it's not for you, I recommend to keep watching. By episode 5 I was really into the show and everything started falling into place. Really good show and I'm interested to see where it goes next season.
 

jmschwab82

Member
Oct 30, 2017
107
Wife and I finally finished it. Loved it and immediately double checked that it had already been renewed for another season.

In terms of my favourite Netflix show, this year my favourite show period has been season 2 of Master if None, which was absolutely stellar.

Next up is The Deuce.
Season 2 of Master of None is fucking perfect, and plays well with what has been happening in Hollywood Lately.
 

Boogs31

Member
Oct 28, 2017
723
Ohio
Really enjoyed it. The interview bits were fantastic. Can't say I was a big fan of the 15 second cold opens every episode though. IMO cold opens should be used to build upon the momentum of the last episodes conclusion. I would have rather seen all of those short clips put together to make an actual full length scene.
 

Fisty

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,232
Watched the first episode and I won't be continuing... I have no idea what Fincher was thinking, it seems like he literally just shot the script without trying to make anything realistic or natural. It was kinda like if Brett Ratner directed True Detective S1. The girlfriend's acting and delivery was laughable, and long pointless conversations just to provide awful exposition which should have been handled in a more nuanced, visual way... like Fincher normally does? I dont know, I was just scratching my head wondering how the guy who directed Se7en matured into this....
 

Mikebison

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,438
My favorite Netflix series easily. That last scene was intense. And thats BTK they were teasing throughout the season right?

Hope we get season 2.
Yeah, it's definitely him. That scene where he was staring at the clock and leaves is presumably the time where BTK was waiting to kill a woman but at the last minute she decided to go to a dance or something so he just left, sparing her life.

I had just listened to the Last podcast on the left episode about BTK a few weeks before watching Mindhunter, so it stuck out straight away.

By the way, you guys seen the videos comparing the real Co-ed killer to the Mindhunter version? The actor fucking nailed his mannerisms.
 

GameShrink

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,634
Principal character spoilers
As much as I wanted to know what the final resolution might be with this guy, it was pretty great how we just flat out don't know, it was a messy situation from the get go and doesn't get neatly resolved.
.
The character he was based on was fired for similar behavior, but never went on to commit a crime. I think it's an example of Holden breaking the "if it's not a crime, then it's not a crime" rule by delving into office politics and profiling.

In the end, it's likely he got an innocent man fired because some people thought his behavior could escalate into molestation, which is a bit of a logical leap.
 

Glass

Member
Oct 26, 2017
297
The character he was based on was fired for similar behavior, but never went on to commit a crime. I think it's an example of Holden breaking the "if it's not a crime, then it's not a crime" rule by delving into office politics and profiling.

In the end, it's likely he got an innocent man fired because some people thought his behavior could escalate into molestation, which is a bit of a logical leap.
So even that was based off a real event ? Holy shit though for sure parts like that must have been fictionalised.
 

Sloane

Member
Oct 25, 2017
904
Finally finished watching it a few days ago, my favorite Netflix show so far, even though it's "just good", not great.

I guess my biggest issue was that the main / only real conflict in the end felt a little forced, especially in regards to Carr and her questionnaire. I feel like we were kinda supposed to side with her because, well, Holden actually is somewhat of an asshole, but they never really showed us what exactly Bill and Holden were supposed to ask in those interviews and what they were supposed to do if the guy didn't respond. Why did Carr never go with them and at least oversee an interview or something? Instead, they basically just show her complaining about all the things Bill and Holden supposedly did wrong -- and while she probably has a point there, the show never really makes it.

Thinking about it, Debbie wasn't exactly well written either, starting with the meet cute up until the break-up, with a few exceptions in-between. The atmosphere, the visuals, the portrayal of the serial killers, and the chemistry between Bill, Holden, and, to some degree, Carr make the show, but the writing isn't quite where it needs to be.
 
Oct 30, 2017
4,399
Finally finished watching it a few days ago, my favorite Netflix show so far, even though it's "just good", not great.

I guess my biggest issue was that the main / only real conflict in the end felt a little forced, especially in regards to Carr and her questionnaire. I feel like we were kinda supposed to side with her because, well, Holden actually is somewhat of an asshole, but they never really showed us what exactly Bill and Holden were supposed to ask in those interviews and what they were supposed to do if the guy didn't respond. Why did Carr never go with them and at least oversee an interview or something? Instead, they basically just show her complaining about all the things Bill and Holden supposedly did wrong -- and while she probably has a point there, the show never really makes it.

Thinking about it, Debbie wasn't exactly well written either, starting with the meet cute up until the break-up, with a few exceptions in-between. The atmosphere, the visuals, the portrayal of the serial killers, and the chemistry between Bill, Holden, and, to some degree, Carr make the show, but the writing isn't quite where it needs to be.
The questionnaire is actually a pretty good tool to drive the conflict between Holden and Carr since Carr is developing this system without any experience interviewing criminals beyond reading transcripts. That was my one takeaway was if she was concerned about the questionnaire, she should have sat in or observed an interview to understand that such a structured interview was not going to work when talking to uncooperative or antisocial criminals. Holden takes the semi-structured approach where he asks a specific question and then proceeds to ask for specifics related to that question. Carr, on the other hand, was trying to quantify responses that made interviewing very awkward with no room to build rapport.

At the same time, I fault Holden for developing this style of rhetoric with Kemper and then pushing it to the limit with the other criminals because by the end he's possessed with the idea that what he is doing is the only right way to glean information from these people. He becomes big-headed and it bites him in the ass when he realizes that his style doesn't protect him from being hurt.

I agree about Debbie, a very malaise sort of character with zero growth. She was as stuck-up as Holden in a lot of ways.
 

CaviarMeths

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
6,783
Western Canada
I finished this yesterday and thought I'd sleep on it before posting my impression.

And now that I have, I'm not satisfied.

I enjoyed most of it. Last few episodes were a little messy, but that's fine. What annoyed me most is how the season ended with absolutely nothing concluded. I realize S2 is already in production, but there should be something wrapped up by the end of the season. There isn't. No character has a complete arc. No plot thread is resolved. Nothing. Everything goes nowhere. It's like the season was dropped 2-3 episodes early.

And the women of the show end up just feeling like they were just there to be plot devices for the growth of the men.
 

davepoobond

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,487
www.squackle.com
i saw it all last weekend. bit of a slow burn. i really like the lead who plays Holden. he reminds me of Cary Elwes in a way


kind of ended in a weird spot... obviously have to wait for season 2 :P basically i agree with the previous post completely.
 

Elandyll

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
3,791
Finished last night, binging 3 eps in a row (betrayed my wife who went to bed).

I identify a lot with Holden (intellectual type, socially awkward and introvert), so I have to admit by the end of the show I was super pissed.

Not at the cliffhanger (F'in 2 years to wait?) but
at the way his agency and colleagues treated him throughout, even when he got to prove his theories were correct.

He got the shit end of things the entire time, being thoroughly disliked by his direct supervisor, because he is pushing for a revolutionary approach that ends up working!

Worse, his colleage (Bill) who he apparently thinks of as his best friend seem at most to tolerate him and rebuffs him when he goes a bit off the beaten paths (which on more than one occasion has paid off). The professor (Wendy) he happens to respect the most given her theories (whom he also has a crush on) not only is gay -not her fault obviously- but also won't hesitate to throw them under the bus and seems to be mostly here for her own study and not the final results.

Add to that a slime of a new colleague (that he was opposed to hiring, justly judging him a plant), being the base/origin of this new Profiling unit but not only being passed for leading it (Wendy getting it, a consultant), but not even getting an office while Bill does.
On top of that we have the personal problems around his girlfriend (a flirtatious college student) and the internal FBI probe into his behavior, and he was ripe for a nervous breakdown/ panic attack.
The whole unfairness of it made me angry, even though it's certainly realistic with an ultra-conservative FBI and an aging family man colleague who would rather go by the book.

The most disappointing person to me was Wendy, who I really thought was going to be his ally to fight the bureaucracy and stagnant frame of mind at the FBI, and ended up his biggest adversary because she wants her mark (the questionnaire) on the study, when he made it clear and proved the whole thing should not be approached from a Quantitative perspective (a large amount of standardized data), but a Qualitative one (individual interviews, customized per subject).
 

jahepi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
149
Mexico
I love it, i almost finished all the episodes in one sitting, i´m speechless, the ending of the last one is crazy, it is a long wait for season 2, i am sad.
 

Oxx

Member
Oct 28, 2017
761
I enjoyed it a lot, but I have already forgotten how it ended. It has only been a few weeks since I finished it.
 

Krauser Kat

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,014
Finished last night, binging 3 eps in a row (betrayed my wife who went to bed).

I identify a lot with Holden (intellectual type, socially awkward and introvert), so I have to admit by the end of the show I was super pissed.

Not at the cliffhanger (F'in 2 years to wait?) but
at the way his agency and colleagues treated him throughout, even when he got to prove his theories were correct.

He got the shit end of things the entire time, being thoroughly disliked by his direct supervisor, because he is pushing for a revolutionary approach that ends up working!

Worse, his colleage (Bill) who he apparently thinks of as his best friend seem at most to tolerate him and rebuffs him when he goes a bit off the beaten paths (which on more than one occasion has paid off). The professor (Wendy) he happens to respect the most given her theories (whom he also has a crush on) not only is gay -not her fault obviously- but also won't hesitate to throw them under the bus and seems to be mostly here for her own study and not the final results.

Add to that a slime of a new colleague (that he was opposed to hiring, justly judging him a plant), being the base/origin of this new Profiling unit but not only being passed for leading it (Wendy getting it, a consultant), but not even getting an office while Bill does.
On top of that we have the personal problems around his girlfriend (a flirtatious college student) and the internal FBI probe into his behavior, and he was ripe for a nervous breakdown/ panic attack.
The whole unfairness of it made me angry, even though it's certainly realistic with an ultra-conservative FBI and an aging family man colleague who would rather go by the book.

The most disappointing person to me was Wendy, who I really thought was going to be his ally to fight the bureaucracy and stagnant frame of mind at the FBI, and ended up his biggest adversary because she wants her mark (the questionnaire) on the study, when he made it clear and proved the whole thing should not be approached from a Quantitative perspective (a large amount of standardized data), but a Qualitative one (individual interviews, customized per subject).
Holden is a fucking asshole even if he has been a string of correct assessments. No one goes out of their way to fuck with him other then the new person of the group.
 

TheGhost

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,840
Long Island
I've been binging since I got off work.....

Man this
foot tickler stuff screams crazy but everyone is telling him there is nothing wrong with it.
 

Elandyll

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
3,791
Holden is a fucking asshole even if he has been a string of correct assessments. No one goes out of their way to fuck with him other then the new person of the group.
How is he an asshole exactly?
Only 1 occasion comes to mind, when he took Bill's kid as an example, and he made his point by doing so (about the principal's odd behavior).
Holden is a weirdo, sure. But it always comes from a place of wanting to do good and natural curiosity, while being super awkward.

No one fucks with him?

Bill, a supposed professional, drops his visit with him and let him go to an interview alone

Bill keeps criticizing his methods, yet eventually keeps recognizing he was right, from the get go (he was against the interviews and keeps butting head about the language)

Wendy keeps butting head with him about the fucking questionnaire that he established doesn't work a lot of the time

Wendy goes out of her way to bust out a recording where he steps down to the killer's vernacular in order to connect, and calls in the director in order to force Holden 's hands at using said questionnaire

Bill criticises him for investigating the complaint vs a principal because he wants to try a more proactive approach, and when he is used by the board to justify their decision it comes crashing down on him when he was trying to help parents and teachers

They both (along with the FBI Director) constantly bust his chops, to eventually recognize he was right.

It's maddening.
 

NotBacon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
222
Just finished the pilot. It's decent but the acting is a little strange, and it's very slow so far. Hopefully it picks up or I'll fall asleep in the next episode.
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,411
Just finished the pilot. It's decent but the acting is a little strange, and it's very slow so far. Hopefully it picks up or I'll fall asleep in the next episode.
The acting is very strange, especially in the pilot. The exchanges between the main character and his girlfriend when they first meet at the bar were super awkward and kind of awful. It was one of the least natural conversations I've ever seen between two romantic interests. It was very, very odd.

I'm on a few episodes in and the acting doesn't get much better, other than from the guy who plays Ed Kemper. He is fantastic. The two leads aren't very good though.
 

Kirblar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,029
Finished last night, binging 3 eps in a row (betrayed my wife who went to bed).

I identify a lot with Holden (intellectual type, socially awkward and introvert), so I have to admit by the end of the show I was super pissed.

Not at the cliffhanger (F'in 2 years to wait?) but
at the way his agency and colleagues treated him throughout, even when he got to prove his theories were correct.

He got the shit end of things the entire time, being thoroughly disliked by his direct supervisor, because he is pushing for a revolutionary approach that ends up working!

Worse, his colleage (Bill) who he apparently thinks of as his best friend seem at most to tolerate him and rebuffs him when he goes a bit off the beaten paths (which on more than one occasion has paid off). The professor (Wendy) he happens to respect the most given her theories (whom he also has a crush on) not only is gay -not her fault obviously- but also won't hesitate to throw them under the bus and seems to be mostly here for her own study and not the final results.

Add to that a slime of a new colleague (that he was opposed to hiring, justly judging him a plant), being the base/origin of this new Profiling unit but not only being passed for leading it (Wendy getting it, a consultant), but not even getting an office while Bill does.
On top of that we have the personal problems around his girlfriend (a flirtatious college student) and the internal FBI probe into his behavior, and he was ripe for a nervous breakdown/ panic attack.
The whole unfairness of it made me angry, even though it's certainly realistic with an ultra-conservative FBI and an aging family man colleague who would rather go by the book.

The most disappointing person to me was Wendy, who I really thought was going to be his ally to fight the bureaucracy and stagnant frame of mind at the FBI, and ended up his biggest adversary because she wants her mark (the questionnaire) on the study, when he made it clear and proved the whole thing should not be approached from a Quantitative perspective (a large amount of standardized data), but a Qualitative one (individual interviews, customized per subject).
You're missing Holden's issue-
Holden consistently has the "What if you're right and they're wrong" attitude, regardless of context.

He is absolutely not wrong that they need to investigate this, but he is supremely arrogant and the warnings his Supervisor, Wendy, and Bill all give him fall on deaf ears, and it all crashes down on him by the end of the season.

He's continuously going rogue even as he no longer should be doing so as they gain official standing and respect.
 

Arkestry

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,837
London
Great interview with Fincher on Mindhunter.

David Fincher said:
I don’t think people are interested in serial killers because they’re so much like them, I think they’re interested in the aberrant because it’s so hard to understand. I really felt that this was an opportunity to reclaim, not the genre, because I hate the idea that serial killer films are a genre, but more the idea that the serial killer is some kind of Wile E Coyote super genius.
David Fincher said:
I sent it to a friend of mine who’s a stone-cold genius, just this great screenwriter. I showed him the first two episodes and his comment was really interesting. He said, ‘You’ve done the exact opposite of television, where your character is always the perfect person to solve the dilemma of the show. They may have a problem with alcohol, or may have lost a loved one, but they’re always the perfect person to wrestle with the problem that the show is going to posit.’ He said what we’ve done here is taken somebody who’s in some existential malaise – which is something that Joe and I talked about a lot – and it’s the most difficult thing to dramatise, someone who doesn’t feel like he’s accomplishing what it is he needs to accomplish.
David Fincher said:
There was something to the things that Edmund Kemper was doing that only he knew, and ultimately that was the attraction for me, the notion that a monolithic bureaucracy could only inform itself through having some kind of empathy for people who should be beneath our contempt. That in order to have a conversation with someone who is so unlike you that you can’t even imagine it, and who has things that are driving them that you can’t even fathom, you have to have compassion even for your enemy to understand why they hate you and why they do what they do.
David Fincher said:
The director of photography was fairly well versed in what the style was. The style is really just let’s not be afraid of conversations. It’s My Dinner with André the Giant. There’s a sequence with Jerry Brudos that Andrew Douglas did that’s just a stainless steel picnic table inside a chain-link cage inside a maximum security concrete bunker that has razor wire over all the windows. The guy comes in and it’s a conversation about cigarettes, whether they can un-manacle him, whether he can fix the guy’s tape recorder. I know that there are filmmakers who, if you presented them with a long scene of two guys over a picnic table would go, ‘Oh my god, where do you go with this?’
 
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ultra7k

Member
Oct 27, 2017
514
Making my way through the show, watched 4 episodes yesterday and had to take a break. It's a pretty heavy show IMO, but way better than when I first tried to watch it.
 

Z.C

Member
Oct 27, 2017
99
Melbourne, Australia
Just finished watching Season 1 now, man what a show. The actors really nailed their roles and and the pacing throughout the show was pretty good.

Can't wait for season 2