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Mindhunter | Netflix | - No love for fincher?

vacantseas

vacantseas

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,722
Not much to add to this other than my wife and i binged this over the long weekend. I can't say I was the biggest fan of the Holden character. I understand what they were going for in his character arc, but I dont know if it was just the acting that put me off or what, but something about that character and/or actor just seemed off.

Bill was by far my favorite character after Kemper. Acting by both those guys was just real well done.
 

Deleted member 24550

Ac
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
2,398
vacantseas said:
but I dont know if it was just the acting that put me off or what, but something about that character and/or actor just seemed off.
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I keep thinking the reason he's so intrigued and able to get under the skin of the sociopaths is because he is one himself. I don't know about the real person it's based on, but at least it's strongly implied in the series.

Agreed Tench and Kemper are the greatest characters.
 
Carthago Delenda Est

Carthago Delenda Est

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
6,119
spekkeh said:
I keep thinking the reason he's so intrigued and able to get under the skin of the sociopaths is because he is one himself. I don't know about the real person it's based on, but at least it's strongly implied in the series.

Agreed Tench and Kemper are the greatest characters.
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I hadn't considered that, but it's a decent theory. On the other hand, I think he may just be destructively obsessive. He's clearly on the road to ruining his entire life as he gets deeper in this, but I still see him as a "good" guy.
 
Rocket Man

Rocket Man

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,509
One of the best Netflix shows. The last few scenes were kinda stupid in the season finale, but overall the show was so good. Wish it was more than 10 eps.
 

HaNotsri

Usage of alt-account.
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Oct 28, 2017
790
Kemper is the star of the show. Thought it started out exciting and then turned into a boring slog. Too much focus on the main guy.
 
Lynchian Anomaly

Lynchian Anomaly

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Oct 25, 2017
6,274
Finished this just now and thought it was really good. I studied Psychology at university so I find this stuff interesting as is but the performances of the serial killers really elevated it. Kemper's scenes in particular were amazing and the tension was next level the whole time. Tench was brilliant and if he was a little younger could totally play Batou in a good Ghost in the Shell movie. Anna Torv was good too but should have been in it way more.

I found it very difficult to get over how much Holden looks and sounds like Dennis Reynolds and how much sense it'd make if he infiltrated a serial killing unit.

Main criticism was the stuff with Debbie's plotline being incredibly two dimensional, manufacturerd drama and predictable.

Hope this lasts long enough for us to get to Ted Bundy, JWG and BTK.
 
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Tremis

Tremis

Member
Oct 29, 2017
883
I'm glad I went back to this after the bar scene convo turned me off of the first ep initially. Knowing the characters now, I think the dialogue actually works for them instead of seeming too smart at the time. Really enjoying it and am starting ep 8.

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okayfrog

okayfrog

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Oct 25, 2017
3,968
Finished the first season today. Really damn good. Holden became more and more interesting as the season went on, and his breakdown at the end was incredible. Really looking forward to seeing where this goes.
 
Not

Not

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Oct 25, 2017
4,596
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This was ok. Some bad parts. The Kemper scenes were by faaaaar the best aspect. I liked Wendy's character too.
 
Kaze13

Kaze13

Member
Oct 25, 2017
213
Anung said:
Finished this just now and thought it was really good. I studied Psychology at university so I find this stuff interesting as is but the performances of the serial killers really elevated it. Kemper's scenes in particular were amazing and the tension was next level the whole time. Tench was brilliant and if he was a little younger could totally play Batou in a good Ghost in the Shell movie. Anna Torv was good too but should have been in it way more.

I found it very difficult to get over how much Holden looks and sounds like Dennis Reynolds and how much sense it'd make if he infiltrated a serial killing unit.

Main criticism was the stuff with Debbie's plotline being incredibly two dimensional, manufacturerd drama and predictable.

Hope this lasts long enough for us to get to Ted Bundy, JWG and BTK.
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Deleted member 2317

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Incredible, incredible show that aims for the jugular. Jesus christ. I'm only five episodes in but it's easily up there with the greats of its genre just based on the truthy aspect alone.

Sure, it's starts off a little on the nose- but soon evolves into wonderful nuance and reflection. Superb show!

And technically? A dream boat. But that's Fincher and co. for you.
 
wizard

wizard

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,096
California
Felt like the season finale was anticlimatic and on the nose. I also felt the relationship with Debbie was really poorly written and shoehorned into the series.

The story would of had more depth if they examined Holdens behavior away from work more thuroughly.

All and all I enjoyed the series. I would prefer if Lindholm had more creative control.
 
The Almighty Tria

The Almighty Tria

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
6,411
HaNotsri said:
Kemper is the star of the show. Thought it started out exciting and then turned into a boring slog. Too much focus on the main guy.
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I think the show in general is let down by both the two leads. They have no screen presence, and the Holden actor isn't a very good actor at all.

There are a few other problems with the show that bother me, such as some very odd and poor dialog (especially towards the beginning of the show) and a really dumb and pointless relationship.

It looks amazing though, and the acting by the killers, especially Kemper, is amazing. I wish they had gotten better leads though, and had better dialog with everyone who wasn't a killer. Because honestly, it brings the show down so much.
 
Orb

Orb

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Oct 27, 2017
9,465
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Weird question, but does anyone know if they are using digital depth of field rather than doing it in camera? Is that even a thing? I know there is a ton of VFX on this show and something about the quick changes in focus feels fake to me.
 
Einchy

Einchy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
42,659
Orb said:
Weird question, but does anyone know if they are using digital depth of field rather than doing it in camera? Is that even a thing? I know there is a ton of VFX on this show and something about the quick changes in focus feels fake to me.
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I wouldn't put it past David Fincher to do something weird like that. Dude loves doing weird shit like that.
 
CloseTalker

CloseTalker

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Oct 25, 2017
30,505
Just watched the first episode (haven't read this thread cuz of spoilers), and wanted to give some quick impressions:

- Awesome first scene, I was immediately engaged. Tense, well shot, and an original spin on a hostage negotiation scene.
- Man, the rest of the episode was not like that at all, and it appears the series won't be either. Which is fine.
- Dialogue was pretty rough in spots, which wasn't helped by it being a very talky show. Scenes like the main dude meeting his girlfriend for the first time, and their whole interaction, kind of just made me think "this is framed and shot a lot like The Social Network, but this dialogue sure isn't written by Aaron Sorkin".
- I'm intrigued to see where it goes, but I can definitely see why I was seeing impressions of "it gets better after the first episode". It was engaging enough to keep me for at least one more, but something about it felt kind of weird, tonally off almost.
 
Creamium

Creamium

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,678
Belgium
I'm 4 episodes in and I really love this show. My favorite part is how the episodes are allowed to breathe and there's not much in terms of actual plot. It's refreshing to watch a show again that just focuses on a few core characters and doesn't really deal with subplots (at least so far). The killer itv's are so well done they could go on even longer for all I care. In between we explore Holden and Bill a bit and see how their investigation gains traction. It's a very focused show but that's my favorite kind.

I do have a question about a scene that happened in ep 4 that wasn't 100% clear to me

After Bill crashes the car he's very upset and talks about his adopted son out of nowhere to Holden, how he doesn't talk or react. He then says something like 'I don't think you understand what I'm saying' and Holden says he doesn't. Is the undercurrent here that he feels like Holden is more of an actual son to him and he almost lost him in that crash? He's shook that he probably cares more about Holden than his actual adopted kid. Is that the gist of it or is there something more? I also think Bill is so eager to go on the roadtrips because he finally has something close to a son and he cares less about the actual investigations.
 
saint

saint

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Oct 27, 2017
709
is it just me or do they talk way too fast with no pauses in between dialogue

the bar scene in particular I was running out of breath and I wasn't even talking

it just feels very unnatural and jarring
 
Snake

Snake

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Oct 25, 2017
265
I thought the first episode was dire. Bad or unconvincing acting. Terrible, boring characters. Nothing to grab me. A fairly pedestrian take on the subject matter. Very disappointing.

Then episode 2 happened, and it was... great? And then everything that followed was okay at worst, and often surprisingly strong. Even Holden, who started out incredibly boring and uninteresting had an actual character arc and got progressively better. Biggest overall issue with the show so far would have to be that it feels like half a season. Will definitely be on board for more.

And everybody's already said it, but the actor portraying Ed Kemper was amazing. A pitch perfect performance.
 
EdibleKnife

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Oct 29, 2017
7,723
I'm loving it. I'm in episode 6 and I think I know something so I don't mind being spoiled but
is Trench's adopted son the child of the Kansas killer we see at the start of many of the episodes? Is seeing an eventual murder by the killer the cause of his muteness?
 
ExInferus

ExInferus

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Nov 14, 2017
954
saint said:
is it just me or do they talk way too fast with no pauses in between dialogue

the bar scene in particular I was running out of breath and I wasn't even talking

it just feels very unnatural and jarring
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only in the first episode. Very robotic line delivery and stilted dialogue. It becomes much better
 
Alpende

Alpende

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Oct 26, 2017
953
EdibleKnife said:
I'm loving it. I'm in episode 6 and I think I know something so I don't mind being spoiled but
is Trench's adopted son the child of the Kansas killer we see at the start of many of the episodes? Is seeing an eventual murder by the killer the cause of his muteness?
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That's the first time I heard that theory, seems like a huge stretch tbh. Because you don't mind being spoiled; the show does not answer your question
 
EdibleKnife

EdibleKnife

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Oct 29, 2017
7,723
Alpende said:
That's the first time I heard that theory, seems like a huge stretch tbh. Because you don't mind being spoiled; the show does not answer your question
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Thanks! I just finished the last episode and you're right. I'm not answered. We'll see where it goes in the second season. I know it's a bit out there haha
 
Shadowrun

Shadowrun

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Oct 26, 2017
1,747
I'm through episode 7 now, and really enjoying it despite one major flaw: Holden.

Add me to the "Holden fucking sucks" chorus. He's just the worst, and drags down the overall quality of the show.
 
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BaasRed

BaasRed

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Oct 25, 2017
961
UAE
Altazor said:
Another treat for the fans: a comparison between the real Ed Kemper and the one from the series. The actor did such a good job, though the real one feels strangely more... lively. Then maybe he's faking it for the camera, considering he's a psycho, dunno.
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Excellent job by this actor. Perfected the role in every way.
 
Paradox

Paradox

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Oct 28, 2017
678
Finally finished the season. Thought it was excellent like most on here, and that's coming from someone who's become increasingly bored with the 'super serious and gritty with at least one sex scene every other episode' type dramas (which luckily this avoided being). Couple pros/cons:

+ Anna Torv is (as ever) amazing
- Not enough Anna Torv
+ I love that the show reads as a meta-commentary on the persistent interest we all seem to have with killers, particularly after Serial and Making a Murderer. We are essentially Holden; young and naive, thinking we know how killers work, becoming increasingly involved in these horrific events and totally missing the fact that people are dying.
- Any scene with Holden and Debbie was either dull or painfully bad. Like, I get the need for some sort of grounded home life, but perhaps replace it with something more interesting like, I dunno, Anna Torv?
+ The whole team building aspects of the first half of the season is awesome and totally my jam
- Lack of black characters sucks, as does giving a half-baked on screen reason. They can't hire a black guy in case he riles up the killers so instead they hire bland guy who barely interacts with anyone other than a typewriter
+ Kemper (and most of the killers) are extremely well realised
- The overly large on screen place names annoy me. Don't know why
+ I like the BTK framing device but kind of hope they don't actually do anything with it. I prefer it as a way of saying 'these killers are a constant background noise and they'll never catch them all' rather than some 'big bad' for S2
 
Hyun Sai

Hyun Sai

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Oct 27, 2017
14,562
Finished the serie, and oh my god I was getting tired of Holden. Not even mentioning the girlfriend scenes.

Other than that, it was ok, the interview scenes being the highlight, and especially the Kemper ones. Brilliant.
 
KonradLaw

KonradLaw

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,960
Loved the first season. I'm surprised about dislike of Holden though. Was my favorite character next to Kamper. Especially in later episodes when he started to wild. You could tell episode by episode that the experience was making him better at catching those people.
The girlfriend scenes dragged a bit, but they had such a beautiful payoff in the break up scene. And yeah, Holden has sociopatic tendencies for sure. The way he was disgusted with man crying, the fact that the gruesome work doesn't seem to be affecting him negativelly at all. the slightly delayed reactions to some social clues etc. They definitely are hinting that he's so good as analyzing killers because he's at some level similiar to them.

The weakest character for me was Torv. I liked that actress, but the character seemed smug and not really contributing anything to the team outside of giving the fake alure of official research, which helped with funding.
And the main theme is so beautifully creepy

I think I will watch something light now and then go for Manhunt: Unabomber :D
 
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Deleted member 2317

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Huh. I thought the cat thing was just a metaphor for the souring of initial dreams and optimism crushed by real world danger.

Loved every episode, I think it was pitch perfect throughout.
 
Dragoon

Dragoon

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
11,231
spekkeh said:
I keep thinking the reason he's so intrigued and able to get under the skin of the sociopaths is because he is one himself. I don't know about the real person it's based on, but at least it's strongly implied in the series.

Agreed Tench and Kemper are the greatest characters.
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Holden to me is definitely the most interesting character. Definitely one of the best new shows I've watched this year, Fincher continues to be one of the best in the business. Pure genius.

Also does anyone like the snitch? Snitches get stitches for next season. What an aggravating little prick. Also Anna Torv is annoying as fuck in here, while she's amazing in Fringe. Tone down the hubris, this entire experiment is happening not because of you but the guy that started it all. The guy I am surprised to see many in here don't seem to like.

KonradLaw said:
Loved the first season. I'm surprised about dislike of Holden though. Was my favorite character next to Kamper. Especially in later episodes when he started to wild. You could tell episode by episode that the experience was making him better at catching those people.
The girlfriend scenes dragged a bit, but they had such a beautiful payoff in the break up scene. And yeah, Holden has sociopatic tendencies for sure. The way he was disgusted with man crying, the fact that the gruesome work doesn't seem to be affecting him negativelly at all. the slightly delayed reactions to some social clues etc. They definitely are hinting that he's so good as analyzing killers because he's at some level similiar to them.

The weakest character for me was Torv. I liked that actress, but the character seemed smug and not really contributing anything to the team outside of giving the fake alure of official research, which helped with funding.
And the main theme is so beautifully creepy
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break up scene was fucking spectacular. The way he walks out and says what he says, wow. Regarding the crying part, isn't everyone supposed to feel uncomfortable by it? To me that's what made me think he did it, he was crying at a level that didn't feel genuine but flat out creepy. -_-
 
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KonradLaw

KonradLaw

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Oct 28, 2017
1,960
Dragoon said:
break up scene was fucking spectacular. The way he walks out and says what he says, wow. Regarding the crying part, isn't everyone supposed to feel uncomfortable by it? To me that's what made me think he did it, he was crying at a level that didn't feel genuine but flat out creepy. -_-
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Yeah, but Holden reacted with revulsion. He had a lot stronger reaction then the rest of men had. He even later on made a joke about the suspect, while he generally doesn't joke. I'm not really sure, but there was something there in that reaction.
 
Creamium

Creamium

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Oct 25, 2017
9,678
Belgium
Someone here mentioned that Holden looks like Dennis (Always Sunny) and I can't unsee that now. He even has a similar way of talking.
 
Dragoon

Dragoon

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Oct 31, 2017
11,231
KonradLaw said:
Yeah, but Holden reacted with revulsion. He had a lot stronger reaction then the rest of men had. He even later on made a joke about the suspect, while he generally doesn't joke. I'm not really sure, but there was something there in that reaction.
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Interesting, I can't remember it as well as I thought or had a different interpretation.. I saw it as the case that it made everyone uncomfortable, as he stated something not particularly politically correct. How can you judge a guy who is crying so hard because his wife died, it just didn't seem right to admit it. Saying that, I agree with you in regards Holden having sociopathic tendencies, that's the primary reason he can engage with the serial killers better than anyone.

The worst character is the snitch, fuck that guy. Torv got annoying towards the latter 1/3rd of the show though, she seems like a manager who comes in towards the end of a project that they've done fuck all in to take the credit. This whole thing is because of Holden and the second MVP Kemper, not you. Your ways don't work and you do need to get your hands dirty to get the knowledge that everyone's looking for. She wants her cake and to eat it too. Also her ways of managing fucking sucks when you put the leash on the communication. You need to allow Holden & Kemper a good amount of breathing room, otherwise no serial killer will talk to them in her boring set.

Also Holden is the real #MVP.
 
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