MLB 2020 Offseason |OT| - Bang Bang

stn

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,144
I still can't believe we traded Mookie. I understand why it was done, but man... tough pill to swallow. That said, I think the offense will be fine but that rotation we have looks like ass.
 
Dec 11, 2017
8,642
So the Astros basically knew which pitch was coming, won the WS but are claiming it “didn’t affect the game”? LOL. I’ve never hated any MLB franchise until now. Absolute clowns.
 

captive

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,029
Houston
Sign stealing is OK as long as you have a runner on first, second or third, or provided the catcher is dumb enough to allow his signs to be seen by the first or third base coaches or from the dugout.
MLB has said its ok to "steal signs" via "Video Review" (see Aaron Judge with printouts from center field 2019 ALCS)
MLB says its ok to pick up on pitch tipping from "Video Review"
As long as none of these things are relayed in real time to the batter.

yea what they did was wrong and they shouldn't have done it. But id really like it if people stop acted like this was the biggest sports scandal since the black sox. Or that the astros were the only team doing in.
from the very article that broke the story.
“Inside the game, there is a belief which is treated by players and staff as fact: That illegal sign stealing, particularly through advanced technology, is everywhere.

“It’s an issue that permeates through the whole league,” one major league manager said. “The league has done a very poor job of policing or discouraging it.”

Electronic sign stealing is not a single-team issue. Major League Baseball rules prohibit clubs from using electronic equipment to steal catchers’ signs and convey information. Still, the commissioner’s office hears complaints about many different organizations — everything from mysterious people in white shirts sending signals from center field to elaborate systems involving television cameras and tablets.”
the indians did almost the exact thing as the astros, back in the 60s. https://www.si.com/mlb/2019/11/13/sign-stealing-baseball-history

The mets and brewers have accused the dodgers, the rangers and brewers have also been named as well as the Yankees by a player on their roster in 2019. This information is all out there, easy to find. Yu Darvish has a public spat going on with Yelich because he believes they were sign stealing.

Mike Scott admitted the mets did the same thing in One Pitch Away he says "When I was with the Mets, we had a TV monitor in the bullpen. It was just zeroing in from center field. You could see every sign the catcher gave. We could stand out there, and if we knew it was a breaking ball, boom, we could give the hitter a sign."

Manual Corpas - on Phillies stealing signs via binoculars and relaying them this season ] - “If you’re dumb enough to let us get them it’s your fault. It’s been going on in the game a long time. If you’re dumb enough to let us get them, that’s your problem.”

Like, I wish the press conference was them just being like "we're sorry we cheated the game" and then at least you could feel like they acknowledged it. They are so adamant about not owning it that the entire franchise and fanbase are damn near drawing summoning circles hoping for every team to be cheaters too, trying to conflate all sign stealing (or unrelated things like steroids) into what they did.

Crane won't even acknowledge that it was a bad thing, only that they "broke a rule". I want this to be done because everyone paid up and they're not revoking titles, but it won't blow over if it's muddied up or disavowed.

At this point I don't think they should have even apologized yesterday. Literally nothing they could have said or done would appease fans of other teams or the national media.

when Jim Crane announced he fired Luhnow and Hinch media asked "when will the players apologize"
jim crane: we'll get together at spring training and handle that then.

national media *grumble grumble* why aren't they apologizing,why is it taking so long to apologize
national media yesterday "why did you wait so long to apologize"
jim crane fucking told you they'd handle it at spring training



basically this.

but i've never seen a bunch of whiny ass bitches as yankee players, fans and media (barstool in particular) (not necessarily yankee fans here)
Tanaka feels cheated? Lets go in the way back machine shall we?

2015 AL Wild Card game, played at Yankee Stadium.
Score Astros 1 Yankees 0.

so the yankees managed to *checks notes* score 0 runs at home.

2017 ALCS Home team Advantage, Astros
Yankees win all 3 games at home in relatively convincing fashion, coming back to houston with a 3-2 lead, only need 1 win to go to the world series.
They scored *checks notes* 1 run in two games. Game 7 Lance McCullers Jr throws like 150 consecutive knuckle curves. To the point that i even texted my good friend and said hey, McCann isn't even putting down a sign anymore.

2019 ALCS Home team Advantage, Astros.
Yankees take game 1 in convincing fashion, doing what they could not in 2017, winning on the road.
Yankees then lose 3 of the next four since Astros pitchers figured out how to pitch in Yankee Stadium, unlike 2017. Game 2 goes into 11 innings giving both teams plenty of changes to score more than 2 whole runs.
Game 6, Astros blow save, Chapman throws a cement mixer hanging slider that Altuve crushes, as he routinely does, game over series over.

by all accounts teams were wise to sign stealing in the playoffs and were using multiple signs even without runners on making it very difficult to decipher them.

Barstool in particular are a bunch of whiny bitches, they played a clip by bregman talking about BATS where players can pull up any pitch thrown by any pitcher in any stadium as if thats cheating. Half the damn league uses the same system.

So the Astros basically knew which pitch was coming, won the WS but are claiming it “didn’t affect the game”? LOL. I’ve never hated any MLB franchise until now. Absolute clowns.
yea they knew every single pitch and only pretended they didn't so they would lose games and lose the world series and not set ridiciulous 162 game winning streaks.

saracasm aside, thank you for providing me a nice seaway to my next topic.

Hypocrisy.

You appear to be a Nats fan, i hope you plan on booing Will Harris then.

or this for yankees fans and media asking charmin soft questions to Cole.
Guarantee you Twins fans aren't going to be booing Marwin Gonzalez. Dodgers fans seem genuinely excited to have Mookie Betts who's former team was caught and fined for Apple watch usage sign stealing in 2017 and currently under investigation for the exact same sign stealing as the Astros but in 2018.

Yankees fans are going to fucking LOVE carlos correa when he walks in 2 years or whenever it is and goes to the yankees to get PPPPAAAID. They ain't gonna say shit about it.

We like to act all supreme in the moment about any scandal ever. But the same national media thats killing the Astros right now, routinely call Belichick and Tom Brady the goats. This thread from our own forum https://www.resetera.com/threads/its-over-no-more-debates-tom-brady-is-the-goat-no-contest.97526/ has 3 mentions in the first 2 pages of cheating and thats it, most everyone else just agrees.

The only reason i even got reminded of the Saints Bountygate was because of the current astros scandal. The last time before that? Who the fuck knows but i listen to sports radio almost every day. IMO Bountygate is the worst "sports scandal" since 2000, your intentionally trying to injure fellow humans. Thats disgusting.

We conveniently ignore players in the 50-70s using amphetimines and cocaine and we glorify those players as legends now. We ignore the "scandals" mentioned at the top of my post.

kindly spare me your indigent outrage about sign stealing.
 

cwmartin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,027
It's interesting seeing the lengths an Astros fan will go to. As a Red Sox fan, I am embarrassed and think 2018 should be removed. Not like this captive, not like this
 

captive

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,029
Houston
It's interesting seeing the lengths an Astros fan will go to. As a Red Sox fan, I am embarrassed and think 2018 should be removed. Not like this captive, not like this
did you miss this part of my post?

" yea what they did was wrong and they shouldn't have done it "

there's people out there who legit believe the cheating teams should be contracted, including yours. These kind of takes are assinine and exactly the type of hypocrisy im going after in my post.
 

Kraid

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,063
If Nelson Cruz shot steroids in the batters box, but the Twins won a championship I wouldn't give a shit.
 

EN1GMA

Avenger
Nov 7, 2017
2,085
did you miss this part of my post?

" yea what they did was wrong and they shouldn't have done it "

there's people out there who legit believe the cheating teams should be contracted, including yours. These kind of takes are assinine and exactly the type of hypocrisy im going after in my post.
Seems like you acknowledged that it was wrong but at the same time don't want anyone complaining about it and even try to explain away the cheating when the Yankees and Astros met.

You sound like Jim Crane.
 

EN1GMA

Avenger
Nov 7, 2017
2,085
This was organizational cheating. From the top to the bottom everyone knew about it and those who didn't agree did nothing to truly stop it.

Like I'm supposed to believe Jim Crane knew nothing about it when your GM, manager, and all the players did. Everyone knows the Astros cheated in two close series against the Yankees and Dodgers that led to a WS. The Astros might not want to acknowledge that but everyone else does.
 

captive

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,029
Houston
Seems like you acknowledged that it was wrong but at the same time don't want anyone complaining about it and even try to explain away the cheating when the Yankees and Astros met.

You sound like Jim Crane.
so the astros potentially cheating in the playoffs caused the yankees to score 0 runs?

and yea it would be nice if people mentioned the fucking red sox for once or many of the other teams that have been named. Or the fact that this type of cheating isn't knew and stop acting like the astros just murdered a baby on national tv.
 

EN1GMA

Avenger
Nov 7, 2017
2,085
so the astros potentially cheating in the playoffs caused the yankees to score 0 runs?

and yea it would be nice if people mentioned the fucking red sox for once or many of the other teams that have been named. Or the fact that this type of cheating isn't knew and stop acting like the astros just murdered a baby on national tv.
The last time I checked the Yankees lost consecutive 2-1 games to the Astros at Minute Maid to start the series. Maybe they win one of those and the series ends in NY. Perhaps they lose both even if the Astros were not stealing signs.

The point is acting like you know for sure it had no impact is ridiculous.
 

BigAT

Member
Oct 30, 2017
509
so the astros potentially cheating in the playoffs caused the yankees to score 0 runs?

and yea it would be nice if people mentioned the fucking red sox for once or many of the other teams that have been named. Or the fact that this type of cheating isn't knew and stop acting like the astros just murdered a baby on national tv.
captive,

You're a real Patriots fan now.
 

captive

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,029
Houston
The last time I checked the Yankees lost consecutive 2-1 games to the Astros at Minute Maid to start the series. Maybe they win one of those and the series ends in NY. Perhaps they lose both even if the Astros were not stealing signs.

The point is acting like you know for sure it had no impact is ridiculous.
if ifs and buts were candies and nuts were candies and nuts we'd all have a merry christmas.

how do you know the yankees weren't also cheating? One thing i have seen yankee fans on twitter use to try and prove astros cheating is altuve's home and road splits. Judges home road spilts are pretty awful in the playoffs.

also you want me to believe beltran spent 3 years with the yankees, comes to houston and says "your sign stealing is behind the times" creates some system in houston and leaves and goes back to the yankees for two more years. And the only year he cheated was in 2017 with the astros? Even Cora did a wink wink nod at a press conference about it.

anyway sports is entertainment. Were you not entertained the last few years? The astros are good for baseball. We've given the sport two 7 game world series in the last 3 years. And literally everyone is talking about baseball right now when they would be doing stupid ass mock drafts for the NFL.

captive,

You're a real Patriots fan now.
sweet, 6 rings baby!
 

EN1GMA

Avenger
Nov 7, 2017
2,085
if ifs and buts were candies and nuts were candies and nuts we'd all have a merry christmas.

how do you know the yankees weren't also cheating? One thing i have seen yankee fans on twitter use to try and prove astros cheating is altuve's home and road splits. Judges home road spilts are pretty awful in the playoffs.

also you want me to believe beltran spent 3 years with the yankees, comes to houston and says "your sign stealing is behind the times" creates some system in houston and leaves and goes back to the yankees for two more years. And the only year he cheated was in 2017 with the astros? Even Cora did a wink wink nod at a press conference about it.


sweet, 6 rings baby!
When MLB provides proof that the Yankees were cheating then I will believe it. Until then it's nothing more than BS you brought up to mask the actual fact that the Astros were cheating.

Enjoy your tainted Astros WS.

New season is on the way.
 

EN1GMA

Avenger
Nov 7, 2017
2,085
i dont really care if you really did ignore or not, but if you're ignoring people on this forum for anything other than harassment that the mods are taking care of, your soft af.

i will, enjoy your bitter tears.
I bet you did enjoy it until the Astros were exposed. Now here you're desperately trying to defend it.

Do you work for Astros PR?
 

captmcblack

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,224
This was organizational cheating. From the top to the bottom everyone knew about it and those who didn't agree did nothing to truly stop it.

Like I'm supposed to believe Jim Crane knew nothing about it when your GM, manager, and all the players did. Everyone knows the Astros cheated in two close series against the Yankees and Dodgers that led to a WS. The Astros might not want to acknowledge that but everyone else does.
This is another very important thing to differentiate what other teams allegedly did legally, and what the Astros are proven to have done illegally. Nobody's here trying to say that steroids or domestic violence or pine tar isn't bad, but they're not *an entire team and its front office and its baseball operations/analytics team working in concert to live steal, decide and transmit signs after having formally been told not to do anything even kind of like this by league memo*.

Like I said, personally nothing is going to give everyone what they want - but that still doesn't mean that the best thing the Astros and their fans could do was acknowledge that what happened was systemic cheating attributed solely to them. They need to just take their L and keep it moving, especially since at least they didn't lose their title.
 

Weegian

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,184
Can I just say how much I enjoy the Nats and Astros sharing a Spring Training facility? Talk about two different worlds.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,989
NYC
giant wall of bullshit.
Johnny cochran would be proud. it was organizational cheating for years, there’s no excuses. Take your lumps as a fan and move on and quit acting all indignant.

Free Frankman
Ban mustard
Subway Series 2020
fixed it.

yankee blood runs deep. Bellingers are good people.

Ketchup was a mistake.

ketchup is life. Ketchup is pure.
 

affeinvasion

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,622
I don't give a shit about sign-stealing, or steroids. Pete Rose, Roger Clemens, and Barry Bonds should all be in the HoF.
 

Pooh

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,422
The Hundred Acre Wood
"I thought Manfred's punishment was weak, giving them immunity. I mean these guys were cheating for three years. I think what people don't realize is Altuve stole an MVP from Judge in '17. Everyone knows they stole the ring from us."
Tell 'em, Cody!
 

zulux21

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,112
I think stripping altuve of his MVP and giving it to judge would be a fair thing to do.
While it's hard to say what would have happened in the world series without cheating, it's not that hard to say that if altuve's numbers were not inflated that he wouldn't have won the MVP.


Arod can have the mets
Robinson Cano can have the Seattle Mariners
why don't we give Mariano Rivera the Braves just because.
CC Sabathia can have the twins.

any other modern yankees that I'm forgetting that should have a team so that the yankees can just own baseball :P?
 

captive

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,029
Houston
I don't give a shit about sign-stealing, or steroids. Pete Rose, Roger Clemens, and Barry Bonds should all be in the HoF.
seriously though. its not hard to solve the steroid era HOF issue. You put them in if their numbers qualify and then have a note or an entire section describing the steroid era.

Sports writers indignation about it is fucking hilarious. Like you saw Sammy Sosa hit a ball off the FUCKING LIGHTS at minute maid park and didn't think, holy shit, what's he taking?
but the mitchell report comes out and they clasp their pearls like omg, i can't believe they did this!

i was 10-15 during the height of the steroid era, the players looked like fucking football players wearing baseball hats.



Anyone seen Cody Bellingers thoughts on Mookie Betts being stripped of his 2018 MVP?
 
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offtopic

Member
Nov 21, 2017
649
Seems like punishment for Astros should be pretty simple - banned from post season for 3 years and lose first 5 draft picks each of the next 3-5 years (whatever).
 

EN1GMA

Avenger
Nov 7, 2017
2,085
Correa now claiming the Astros won fair and square while admitting they cheated. This has to be the worst set of apologies and delusional BS in some time.

Astros organization has proven to be shit.
 

captive

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,029
Houston
Correa now claiming the Astros won fair and square while admitting they cheated. This has to be the worst set of apologies and delusional BS in some time.

Astros organization has proven to be shit.
did you even listen to what he said?
he said the nats won fair and square why are you even talking about us? go enjoy your world series win.
he said we own what we did in 2017 but we didnt do anything in 18 or 19

literally nothing they can say will do anything for you people. You all believe a baseless rumor put out by a random on twitter and ran with it.