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Modern jet fighters are amazing machines.
- Thread starter Liljagare
- Start date
A pilotless fighter jet could be probably designed now. AFAIK, AI can beat humans in simulators already.
All of the fighters that are options for Finland, except F-35, are "old". The latest Gripen has modern avionics and equipment.
And feature-wise, the Gripen would be more or less ideal for Finland. Easy to maintain (specifically made so for concsript-based armies like Sweden had/has), cheap, and capable of using rudimentary runways.
What's the point in upgrading to a 10 years younger plane? Hornets will do just fine till proper next generation fighters are available.
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Finland bought F-18 instead, which is, from 1978 in the basic platform.
Griffon E is from 2017 though, and F-18 E/F is from 2007. You can't land with the F-18 on a highway though, I think Finland would have benefited more from a Guerilla fighter like the Griffon
Amazing machines.. :P
That's not likely to happen for a plethora of reasons. The moment we have a jet that's without a human, billions of dollars will be spent trying to hijack it, either through remotely, or covert means of acquiring its source code and duplicating it and/or nullifying it. It's a matter of WHEN it will happen, not if. With a human in place, that becomes a non-issue no matter how advanced jets get. Not to mention, the tech just isn't there yet, and the laws of physics keeps drone operated fighter jets from being practical, especially when a pilot has to make decisions in literally fractions of a second.
No they don't. The hulls are approaching end of their service life, and refurbishing them would probably expensive enough it is not worth it.
And existing tech has proven capabilities. While Finland is rich as countries go, we can't really afford top of the line tech. And it doesn't help it is possible advances in stealth will be negated sooner rather than later.
Very few countries have very up to date technology at their disposal. And even the US sports quite a bit of outdated equipment, sometimes it being a benefit, amusingly enough (for example, F-22 software is so old it is basically safe from hacking).
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oh wow. great topic! I saw an f22 fly past my house because of trump. buttttt... my all time favorite.. easily the 15.
Here's the article i was thinking about earlier, one where AI can beat human pilots in simulator:
http://magazine.uc.edu/editors_picks/recent_features/alpha.html
This seems to apply to dogfighting most though. And this is obviously just one research program.
But given that automation and AI are advancing quickly, AI piloted planes will be reality sooner rather than later, me thinks. Drones certainly will become more ubiquitous, and i would bet on combat drones becoming a thing within 20 years certainly. No comment on who and how engagement decisions are made for AI flown planes.
Note that 6th generation fighter ideas are often noted as being "optionally manned". Meaning pilots are used only when needed, anything really dangerous will be probably flown without pilots.
http://magazine.uc.edu/editors_picks/recent_features/alpha.html
This seems to apply to dogfighting most though. And this is obviously just one research program.
But given that automation and AI are advancing quickly, AI piloted planes will be reality sooner rather than later, me thinks. Drones certainly will become more ubiquitous, and i would bet on combat drones becoming a thing within 20 years certainly. No comment on who and how engagement decisions are made for AI flown planes.
Note that 6th generation fighter ideas are often noted as being "optionally manned". Meaning pilots are used only when needed, anything really dangerous will be probably flown without pilots.
I don't think quantum computing will be a thing for AIs soon. That is far less developed than AIs in general, AFAIK. And it is plausible quantum computing will mostly supplement conventional computers at first, rather than replacing them. Obviously, it will be a major future development though, eventually.
Yeah, no. Gripen is basically the best option available, perfectly suited for Finland's needs.
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For explanation, in Scandinavia we do not have very long runways, and for a long time in Sweden, the planes needed to be able to use highways as landing/takeoff places. To compare:
F-18
Takeoff - 1990ft
Landing - 3300ft
- An armed F-16:
Takeoff - 3600ft
Landing - 4100ft
- An empty F-15(C/D):
Takeoff - 1000ft
Landing - 4000-5000ft
- An armed F-15:
Takeoff - 4000ft
Landing - 4000-5000ft
AJ/SH AJ(SP) SF(Recon) SK(School) JA(Search&Destroy)
Take off run: 1000ft 1000ft 1000ft 800ft
Landing run: 1200ft 1200ft 1200ft 1000ft
All of the Viggens also had hard landing gears, which probarly can survive a farm field landing.
F-18
Takeoff - 1990ft
Landing - 3300ft
- An armed F-16:
Takeoff - 3600ft
Landing - 4100ft
- An empty F-15(C/D):
Takeoff - 1000ft
Landing - 4000-5000ft
- An armed F-15:
Takeoff - 4000ft
Landing - 4000-5000ft
AJ/SH AJ(SP) SF(Recon) SK(School) JA(Search&Destroy)
Take off run: 1000ft 1000ft 1000ft 800ft
Landing run: 1200ft 1200ft 1200ft 1000ft
All of the Viggens also had hard landing gears, which probarly can survive a farm field landing.
I'm a bit of a basic bitch on this but I definitely have a hard-on looking at the American F-22 Raptor and the Russian Su-47.
BARF!!!!!They are all fine but my all time favorite jet is the F14 Tomcat. I miss em.
They are all fine but my all time favorite jet is the F14 Tomcat. I miss em.
Also my favorite. My Dad used to work on these when he was at Grumman. He also worked on the B-2.
That kind of ultra low flying stuff is allowed in Sweden? You can clearly see two civilian buses on that junction and he is still struggling to pull up, all while the computer is telling him to. Sometimes he comes as low as what looks like 50m to the ground over a civilian area. Seems risky for no reason.
if you are young and eyes are good. I would jump into the airforce asap.
I couldn't do the airforce. my eyes are shit, yet I can tell bloodborne runs like shit.
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If you flew the Viggen, and didn't see the leaves on the trees, you were flying too high. This was before Stealth, now the Griffon is supposed to fill the same shoes, and if you can't see the bees, you are flying too high. It's how the airforce is built, instead of stealth, you fly so low, radar is meaningless. This is high performance flying, with one of the best pilots in Sweden however.
It is part of how the airplane is supposed to be used in war, so, it is how they practice. During theese sort of flights, there have been 0 accidents, the airplane tend to like to crash at airshows however.
This is the most famous one, in the middle of Stockholm:
This is the only known video of a Viggen crash, in 1971, with a EX model, my uncle was the pilot:
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Yeah, A lot of cold war era European military aircraft designs were based around the concept of being extremely rugged due to the fact that airfields in Europe were well within strike range of Russian bombers.
Being able to operate from temporary airfields (sometimes literally fields) and ease of maintenance and resupply without relying on a fully equipped modern airbases was an essential consideration.