Monster Hunter: World |OT3| Generations Ahead

BadWolf

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,341
Urgh
This is the kind of shit that made me create a male hunter. This right there. Thanks Capcom, I'd love to play as my gender but you don't respect it so
I'd say it's a non issue in this game.

Been playing the game for 60+ hours and my female character has been nearly fully covered up the entire time, without trying.
 

Morrigan

Armoring
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
10,301
I'd say it's a non issue in this game.

Been playing the game for 60+ hours and my female character has been nearly fully covered up the entire time, without trying.
As someone who made a female character and had to switch because it was too obnoxious, I beg to differ. I've talked about this extensively in the past, but the armours are blatantly sexist a lot of the time (even if not "always") and have been throughout the entire franchise, routinely featuring cleavage, boob plate, skin-tight leggings, zettai ryoiki, etc. that male armours don't have (Kirin alpha being the only exception where male outfits are also skimpy, but even the beta set is comically one-sided).

Random examples, quoted to avoid clutter:

For me, it's not only very much an issue, it's literally the only game I decided to abandon making a woman and made a male character instead. I have never done this before, so it sucks.
 

DrArchon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,205
Only good set for Women is the Gala set.

Thankfully it's fantastic.


Edit: Wait I forgot about the King Beetle set.


And now I'm remembering the Guild Cross set and the Dante set. OK, it's a little better than I thought,
 
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xEik

The Fallen
Nov 17, 2017
2,995
The Catalan Republic
All the armors should be able to be made into layered armor. There's a decent number of them that look good but are worthless for being too low level, having a paltry number of slots or useless skills.
 
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Lakeside

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,593
As someone who made a female character and had to switch because it was too obnoxious, I beg to differ. I've talked about this extensively in the past, but the armours are blatantly sexist a lot of the time (even if not "always") and have been throughout the entire franchise, routinely featuring cleavage, boob plate, skin-tight leggings, zettai ryoiki, etc. that male armours don't have (Kirin alpha being the only exception where male outfits are also skimpy, but even the beta set is comically one-sided).

Random examples, quoted to avoid clutter:



For me, it's not only very much an issue, it's literally the only game I decided to abandon making a woman and made a male character instead. I have never done this before, so it sucks.
I play a female character on PC and honestly didn't even cross my mind until the Drachen set. I'll have to do some modeling to get a look. Maybe I just didn't have the "right" armor sets.

I did have a LOT more armor on PS4, where I played a male character. On PC I didn't really care or need better stats so I skipped straight to sets I knew I could use for a while.
 

benj

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,574
I play a female character on PC and yeah, it's a huge problem. the men's armor whiffs for me constantly too, though, in making a given armor set just look like a huge pile of metal. way less egregious of a problem than women characters' bikini-mail, but still. they have such solid design sense in some areas of the game—wish they'd just consistently get it together with armor
 

BadWolf

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,341
As someone who made a female character and had to switch because it was too obnoxious, I beg to differ. I've talked about this extensively in the past, but the armours are blatantly sexist a lot of the time (even if not "always") and have been throughout the entire franchise, routinely featuring cleavage, boob plate, skin-tight leggings, zettai ryoiki, etc. that male armours don't have (Kirin alpha being the only exception where male outfits are also skimpy, but even the beta set is comically one-sided).

Random examples, quoted to avoid clutter:



For me, it's not only very much an issue, it's literally the only game I decided to abandon making a woman and made a male character instead. I have never done this before, so it sucks.
Fair enough.

Guess it was just chance that I ended up with normal looking sets.

The armor that I was most interested for my girl pre-release was the Paolumu set:

But after release I heard that it sucked so didn't bother with it :(

It's still my fave looking one though.
 
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xania

Member
Oct 27, 2017
157
Only good set for Women is the Gala set.

Thankfully it's fantastic.


Edit: Wait I forgot about the King Beetle set.


And now I'm remembering the Guild Cross set and the Dante set. OK, it's a little better than I thought,
Best set is Great Girros. Looks like badass biker leathers.



If I'm being honest, I don't think I could play on PS4 purely because playing this game without Transmog mods would be so painful. So many sets look good but suck so they're just wasted designs.
 

Rutger

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,485
Behemoth asks for far more coordination than typical MH fights, if there was something like it in an older game then randoms would struggle there too.

I also feel it is available too early, many people want to try it after the story when their gear isn't ready for it.
 

DrArchon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,205
I also feel it is available too early, many people want to try it after the story when their gear isn't ready for it.
Yep, and same with Lunastra to a less extent.

The Witcher special assignment was way better in this regard because of the fixed gear, whereas Behemoth is really tough without at least armor augments.
 

DrROBschiz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,156
Why is Behemoth almost impossible with randoms online. I swear the community from the older games was never this bad.
His ability to combo and one shot, people having trouble with the comet mechanics, and not using survival skills like guts/Moxie and felyne insurance

Try searching Behemoth rooms or SOS and look for high rank players to help you score your clear. Just don't be the guy dying all the time and use Moxie and Insurance to ease the pain if you do take some heat
 

DrROBschiz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,156
I've only cleared it once in about 20 tries even with people ranking in the hundreds
Its one of the only monsters with a guaranteed Insta-Death mechanic. Even a good team can fail this one from time to time man

At least if you got caught by a Teostra Nova on accident you could potentially survive with guts or Moxie

Just Run Insurance and hope you get lucky with a good team
 

Rutger

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,485
What sucks about the Behemoth fight with randoms, is that I rarely ever run into someone that wants to play the tank and focus on drawing aggro.

My best weapon is the dual blades and I don't think it would be wise for me to play that role. So I built an armor set with mostly Lunastra things, so I can play healing with wide range, and some things to make sure I stay alive like health boost.

I don't find myself getting KO'd anymore, but still, I can only do so much with that...
Might be time for me to practice a weapon with a shield.
 

banter

Member
Jan 12, 2018
2,189
I've been talking variants a lot lately with people and with Glavenus being confirmed, it got me thinking about deviants as well. I realize, they are nearly the same thing, and I feel like they could bring deviants to World by treating them like variants. Have them be g-rank, endgame monsters like raging brachydios, savage deviljho, and the like. I know it's super unlikely, but I feel like aside from the weird special mission structure, deviants were awesome and I don't want to see them go away.
 

Hybris

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,584
I've been talking variants a lot lately with people and with Glavenus being confirmed, it got me thinking about deviants as well. I realize, they are nearly the same thing, and I feel like they could bring deviants to World by treating them like variants. Have them be g-rank, endgame monsters like raging brachydios, savage deviljho, and the like. I know it's super unlikely, but I feel like aside from the weird special mission structure, deviants were awesome and I don't want to see them go away.
I mean there's effectively no gameplay difference between a variant, subspecies, rare species, deviant, w/e. It's pretty much only a lore difference, so I guess what I'm trying to say is adding a deviant legiana is effectively the same thing as the shrieking legiana they showed.
 

banter

Member
Jan 12, 2018
2,189
I mean there's effectively no gameplay difference between a variant, subspecies, rare species, deviant, w/e. It's pretty much only a lore difference, so I guess what I'm trying to say is adding a deviant legiana is effectively the same thing as the shrieking legiana they showed.
I was more referring to the deviants of the other monsters in the game (Silverwind Nargacuga, Hellblade Glavenus, Grimclaw Tigrex, Dreadking Rathalos, Dreadqueen Rathian, Crystalbeard Uragaan, Bloodbath Diablos)
 

Hybris

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,584
I was more referring to the deviants of the other monsters in the game (Silverwind Nargacuga, Hellblade Glavenus, Grimclaw Tigrex, Dreadking Rathalos, Dreadqueen Rathian, Crystalbeard Uragaan, Bloodbath Diablos)
Ah yeah, that could definitely work. I'd be surprised to see it, but I don't see it happening unfortunately
 

DrArchon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,205
Considering there's no way we aren't getting Silver and Gold, do you really think we'll also get Dreadking and Dreadqueen? That's 4 versions of each Rath.
 

banter

Member
Jan 12, 2018
2,189

Heromanz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,868
What sucks about the Behemoth fight with randoms, is that I rarely ever run into someone that wants to play the tank and focus on drawing aggro.

My best weapon is the dual blades and I don't think it would be wise for me to play that role. So I built an armor set with mostly Lunastra things, so I can play healing with wide range, and some things to make sure I stay alive like health boost.

I don't find myself getting KO'd anymore, but still, I can only do so much with that...
Might be time for me to practice a weapon with a shield.
Well that flawed because monster hunter isnt designed for tanks your not supposed to tank hits, but for some reason they continue to make fight desgin around that
 

Rutger

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,485
Well that flawed because monster hunter isnt designed for tanks your not supposed to tank hits, but for some reason they continue to make fight desgin around that
I disagree.
Some weapons, like the lance, are designed for holding our ground, blocking hits and countering. With a proper skill layout it and a few other weapons can play the role of a tank easily.

The problem is, randoms don't approach this fight like a RPG where the team is well rounded. Everyone just plays multiplayer like they do solo, and for every other monster that can work.

I don't think it's a bad idea. Having a fight that makes us have to consider our builds in order to work as a team is cool as a challenge. It just probably shouldn't have asked for so much in the "easiest" version of the fight that is part of a story event that's going to have a lot of unprepared players rushing to the first SOS they see...
 

Heromanz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,868
I disagree.
Some weapons, like the lance, are designed for holding our ground, blocking hits and countering. With a proper skill layout it and a few other weapons can play the role of a tank easily.

The problem is, randoms don't approach this fight like a RPG where the team is well rounded. Everyone just plays multiplayer like they do solo, and for every other monster that can work.

I don't think it's a bad idea. Having a fight that makes us have to consider our builds in order to work as a team is cool as a challenge. It just probably shouldn't have asked for so much in the "easiest" version of the fight that is part of a story event that's going to have a lot of unprepared players rushing to the first SOS they see...
But game's not designed around it monsters just do too much damage to players for a tank to really work. Mohum is really built upon DPS not really tanking.
 

Rutger

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,485
But game's not designed around it monsters just do too much damage to players for a tank to really work. Mohum is really built upon DPS not really tanking.
Building for DPS is optimal, but it's still possible to build a tank set. There are plenty of skills that exist to improve survivability, and things like wide range let people play the healer. Behemoth was built with these things in mind, that doesn't make it a bad fight because when everyone plays around that, the fight works.

The problem is everyone wants to rush in yelling "DPS is all that matters" and failing the fight for their team. They underestimated how much the average player cares about the attack stat above all else...
 

DrArchon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,205
But game's not designed around it monsters just do too much damage to players for a tank to really work. Mohum is really built upon DPS not really tanking.
That's why Behemoth is a cool fight. Because it flips MonHun on its head and forces players to actually consider things other than DPS. If it was just another DPS race it wouldn't be any different from the other 30+ monsters in the game.
 

Lakeside

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,593
Building for DPS is optimal, but it's still possible to build a tank set. There are plenty of skills that exist to improve survivability, and things like wide range let people play the healer. Behemoth was built with these things in mind, that doesn't make it a bad fight because when everyone plays around that, the fight works.

The problem is everyone wants to rush in yelling "DPS is all that matters" and failing the fight for their team. They underestimated how much the average player cares about the attack stat above all else...
It just screws those of us thst don’t have a regular group. I’ll probably never kill it because it requires organization and I don’t have the tolerance to fail with ransoms. I’m fine with failing as long as my team is learning, but you need a team for that.

I’m over it, but I probably still have that stupid music playing if I log, right? I would like to get back to finish the achieves. I went on vacation and haven’t played since. The timing worked out such that the festival ended while I was traveling, so it felt like there wasn’t much to do now.
 

Rutger

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,485
It just screws those of us thst don’t have a regular group. I’ll probably never kill it because it requires organization and I don’t have the tolerance to fail with ransoms. I’m fine with failing as long as my team is learning, but you need a team for that.

I’m over it, but I probably still have that stupid music playing if I log, right? I would like to get back to finish the achieves. I went on vacation and haven’t played since. The timing worked out such that the festival ended while I was traveling, so it felt like there wasn’t much to do now.
I do agree that it's a bit much for the story quest. It probably should have at least kept the nine KO limit of the repel mission.

It'll probably be easier when Iceborne is out. Everyone too stubborn to try and make builds that aren't just about DPS will at least have Master rank gear to brute force their way through.
 

Kanhir

Member
Oct 25, 2017
503
I'm a Lance player who naturally tanks anyway, so I'm always happy to run tank in the Behemoth mission as long as the game allows me to.

My annoyance with it is less about taking damage, since with a good Lance build you pretty much never take direct damage unless you've left an opening. It's more that the game doesn't offer that many ways to draw monster aggro for tanks, short of a) sheathing and slingering or b) going full-in and leaving yourself open. Every time I ran the quest with a gunner, for example, they were guaranteed to steal aggro from me almost immediately.

I ended up making a tank HBG build for the Behemoth fight, which works great for drawing aggro and keeping safe. The problem there is that HBG isn't very mobile, so it can only really tank against a monster that isn't moving all that fast, meaning the build is near-useless everywhere else.
 

Lakeside

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,593
I do agree that it's a bit much for the story quest. It probably should have at least kept the nine KO limit of the repel mission.

It'll probably be easier when Iceborne is out. Everyone too stubborn to try and make builds that aren't just about DPS will at least have Master rank gear to brute force their way through.
In my mind the game needs to add a layer of intelligence to force players to "queue" for a role like WoW if they want to add fights like that.
 

DrArchon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,205
My biggest issue with Behemoth is that the game does a poor job of explaining the mechanics, not that that it has them. If players don't go on reddit or wherever, they might never know about drawing aggro or flashing to stop Charybdis.

That and the protective space behind comets is wonky if the ground isn't 100% flat, which is most of the ground in Elder's Recess.

The problem there is that HBG isn't very mobile, so it can only really tank against a monster that isn't moving all that fast, meaning the build is near-useless everywhere else.
I also think that this isn't a problem. I appreciate that some of the monsters actually require you to make specific sets to counter them instead of letting you coast by with a general max-DPS set (see also; Lunasta, Kulve Taroth, etc.).
 

kageroo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,673
So I got some "bushi tickets" and it told me I can "repair" older weapons but I don't see this anywhere, just bushi tickets - is that what they meant, buy weapons with bushi tickets?


Also the game sometimes gives you "recommendations" and tells you to show them to the Smithy... HOW?
 

Lakeside

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,593
So I got some "bushi tickets" and it told me I can "repair" older weapons but I don't see this anywhere, just bushi tickets - is that what they meant, buy weapons with bushi tickets?


Also the game sometimes gives you "recommendations" and tells you to show them to the Smithy... HOW?
It's just layered armors to my recollection. The handy MHW site says it does Palico stuff too.

 

kageroo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,673
It's just layered armors to my recollection. The handy MHW site says it does Palico stuff too.

Oh yeah that site is really practical, I'll check... But still, this is worded really confusingly "repair old weapons"...

What sucks about the Behemoth fight with randoms, is that I rarely ever run into someone that wants to play the tank and focus on drawing aggro.

My best weapon is the dual blades and I don't think it would be wise for me to play that role. So I built an armor set with mostly Lunastra things, so I can play healing with wide range, and some things to make sure I stay alive like health boost.

I don't find myself getting KO'd anymore, but still, I can only do so much with that...
Might be time for me to practice a weapon with a shield.
I always draw aggro lol, it's quite funny I'm surrounded by level 100+ players and the monsters keep going after me, I swear they know when you're low on health or something!

(I rarely die though, I always have some mega... items, and my character is really good at running :) )
 

Heromanz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,868
Building for DPS is optimal, but it's still possible to build a tank set. There are plenty of skills that exist to improve survivability, and things like wide range let people play the healer. Behemoth was built with these things in mind, that doesn't make it a bad fight because when everyone plays around that, the fight works.

The problem is everyone wants to rush in yelling "DPS is all that matters" and failing the fight for their team. They underestimated how much the average player cares about the attack stat above all else...
Monhun is about dealing the most amount of damaing with out getting way of hits it not made for people to tank shit or support. I mean look at how many attack skills are in the game versus how many supports goes there on the game there's not that.
 

Rutger

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,485
Monhun is about dealing the most amount of damaing with out getting way of hits it not made for people to tank shit or support. I mean look at how many attack skills are in the game versus how many supports goes there on the game there's not that.
But, that's not true at all?

The Lance is built to tank things.
That's its whole gameplan. Poke things, guard when an attack is coming, then keep poking things.
And the Hunting Horn is a support weapon.
Those playstyles exist in these games.

I wish more people wouldn't be afraid of looking at defensive skills and Wide Range. I'd rather a hunt with randoms take a few more minutes than watch them cart a couple times because they aren't good enough to play their DPS build.
 

benj

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,574
As a Lance main: The Lance isn't at all built to 'tank' things because MHW, indeed, does not have tanking. The base game doesn't have an aggro system, and 'tanking' doesn't just mean taking damage, it means specifically maintaining a mob's attention to create space and time for your teammates.

The Lance is, like most weapons in the game, intended to deal damage to the enemy. It does that by sticking to the enemy and not backing off or giving ground even when being attacked, which is enabled by its guard, counterattacking, its ability to quickly reposition, and its ability to follow the monster no matter where it goes with the charge. The role that it excels at, the niche it feels, isn't 'defensive' per se—it's a form of offense that is founded on constant, unabating aggression, which is itself the product of single defensive actions that themselves create opportunities for more offense. This distinguishes it from other melee weapons that have to sacrifice space or time in response to the monster's own offense.

"Poke things, guard when an attack is coming, then keep poking things" isn't tanking, it's an attack pattern. It's one that does allow the Lance to more easily fill the 'tank' role in the Behemoth fight specifically, but in any other context the Lance doesn't "tank." It attacks differently.
 

Rutger

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,485
As a Lance main: The Lance isn't at all built to 'tank' things because MHW, indeed, does not have tanking. The base game doesn't have an aggro system, and 'tanking' doesn't just mean taking damage, it means specifically maintaining a mob's attention to create space and time for your teammates.

The Lance is, like most weapons in the game, intended to deal damage to the enemy. It does that by sticking to the enemy and not backing off or giving ground even when being attacked, which is enabled by its guard, counterattacking, its ability to quickly reposition, and its ability to follow the monster no matter where it goes with the charge. The role that it excels at, the niche it feels, isn't 'defensive' per se—it's a form of offense that is founded on constant, unabating aggression, which is itself the product of single defensive actions that themselves create opportunities for more offense. This distinguishes it from other melee weapons that have to sacrifice space or time in response to the monster's own offense.

"Poke things, guard when an attack is coming, then keep poking things" isn't tanking, it's an attack pattern. It's one that does allow the Lance to more easily fill the 'tank' role in the Behemoth fight specifically, but in any other context the Lance doesn't "tank." It attacks differently.
I don't know. I've seen the term "tank" be used in many games without aggro systems, including games where the term is used for a solo character.

Everything you described the Lance as still fills my view of a tank playstyle.
 

benj

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,574
That's like saying a Dark Souls' PC is a 'tank' because they can parry and roll—it just doesn't really mean anything in that context.
 

Rutger

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,485
I haven't played Dark Souls, so I can't say much on that.

But the Lance's guarding options are not universal to all weapons, by saying it(and other weapons with similar tools) can have a tank playstyle, it tells me that within the context of Monster Hunter, that weapon can be played by guarding and powering through its opponent's offense in order to keep up it's own, and that it is not something every weapon does.
It tells me a lot more about how it approaches a fight than describing it as "it attacks differently" does, and in less words.
 

benj

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,574
it tells me that within the context of Monster Hunter, that weapon can be played by guarding and powering through its opponent's offense in order to keep up it's own, and that it is not something every weapon does.
that's also not something that "tanks" do in any other game—their ability to stay in close range & keep monster aggro is to the end of keeping up their _teammate's_ offense. you can call that a tank if you want, but then the term means something totally different than it does in the multiplayer games in which the term originated.

the wikipedia entry for it has a pretty solid definition:
A common convention in real-time strategy games, role-playing games, fighting games, multiplayer online battle arenas and MUDs, tanks redirect enemy attacks or attention toward themselves in order to protect other characters or units.
 

Rutger

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,485
Words evolve.
I don't know what to tell you, tank has become a common term outside of where it originated. It's something I've heard many times, both elsewhere and within the context of Monster Hunter(specifically the lances). I feel pretty confident that most will understand what it means in those situations.

Your own quote even includes fighting games, which is a lot more odd of a place for the term. I can't say it is often used there, but even then it won't confuse anyone if a character is called a tank.
 

Kasai

Member
Jan 24, 2018
1,289
Just got this game a few days ago and I'm loving it. Last Monster Hunter I really enjoyed was Tri since none of my friends had a PSP for MHFU.

I'm really loving the Charge Axe and while I used to use either Dual Swords or a regular lance, it basically is the best of both.
 

kageroo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,673
Lol the Kirin fight - is piss easy, except when you try to play it online lmao. People dying left and right and generally play stupid - of course not all but seriously it's a troll magnet of sorts >.<

Going to do this solo now because I want the Kirin armor (is it any good?) and the fight is kinda fun... when you're alone...
 
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