Morbius - Official Teaser Trailer

Sandstar

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,518
Did you see my edit?

I'm not particularly sure why you seem to think that these agreements that have been highly publicised don't exist. Yes Sony could do whatever they want with the Spider-Man film ip, but they decided to partner with Marvel, and of course there has been a degree of give and take from both sides as part of those negotiations. Sony would have put Tom Holland as Spider-Man in Venom if they had not agreed to any terms restricting what they do with the ip otherwise.
So the answer is no, there isn't any. Okay, cool.
 

LewieP

Member
Oct 26, 2017
10,349
So the answer is no, there isn't any. Okay, cool.
What is your explanation for why Sony didn't include the scenes they shot with Tom Holland in Venom? Why were there no Spider-Man posters in Venom?

Of course the stuff that they have contractually agreed with marvel to not include in their films won't be present in the trailer. Because they have agreed to not include them in the film...
 

Sandstar

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,518
What is your explanation for why Sony didn't include the scenes they shot with Tom Holland in Venom?

Of course the stuff that they have contractually agreed with marvel to not include in their films won't be present in the trailer. Because they have agreed to not include them in the film...
I dunno why they didn't use it. It wasn't because Marvel or Disney had any ability to stop them. Sony can use Spider-Man whenever they want. They don't need Marvel's permission.
 

aerts1js

Member
May 11, 2019
635
Nothing, and i mean nothing, is ever gonna stop Sony from making shitty films.

They are like the Yahoo of the movie industry.
? They make plenty of good movies. They also make plenty of bad movies. I think they are best described as inconsistent. They do hit a home run from time to time.
 

Alpha Baymax

Member
Dec 3, 2019
1,060
Sony owns the rights to a character created for them, using their money, in a movie released by them, using the rights to a comics character they own. Sorry, try again.
Your forgetting the fact that the original deal between Sony and Marvel Studios was that the Spider-Man characters that were part of the MCU stayed in the MCU.

Yes, Sony owns the movie rights to them, yes, Sony owns distribution rights to Marvel Studios Spider-Man movies, but Sony couldn't just use Marvel Studios characters outside of their Universe even if they're part of the Spider-Man family.

Why do you think there was no mention of Spider-Man in Venom? Sony tried to jump that loophole by "hinting" at something Spider-Man related during marketing.
 

LewieP

Member
Oct 26, 2017
10,349
"Marvel reportedly asked Sony to cut Tom Holland's Peter Parker/Spider-Man cameo from Venom "

I always thought asking was different than forcing. TIL.
I dunno if you read beyond the headline so I'll quote the pertinent part:

Marvel saw the movie and was like ‘Take him out. Take this scene out.’
Typically corporations use contracts to agree these kinds of multi-million dollar deals.
 

Sandstar

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,518
Your forgetting the fact that the original deal between Sony and Marvel Studios was that the Spider-Man characters that were part of the MCU stayed in the MCU.

Yes, Sony owns the movie rights to them, yes, Sony owns distribution rights to Marvel Studios Spider-Man movies, but Sony couldn't just use Marvel Studios characters outside of their Universe even if they're part of the Spider-Man family.

Why do you think there was no mention of Spider-Man in Venom? Sony tried to jump that loophole by "hinting" at something Spider-Man related during marketing.
The Tom Holland spider-man isn't a marvel character. His character's been licensed to Marvel for use in their films. What makes you think Sony can't use property and IP they own in any movie they want? Marvel Studios doesn't own any of the Spider-Man ip, they can't force Sony to do anything.

I dunno if you read beyond the headline so I'll quote the pertinent part:



Typically corporations use contracts to agree these kinds of multi-million dollar deals.
I mean, the part I quoted wasn't the headline....
 

Grunge_Hamster

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
5,646
I dunno why they didn't use it. It wasn't because Marvel or Disney had any ability to stop them. Sony can use Spider-Man whenever they want. They don't need Marvel's permission.
There might be some limitations though. Just like Marvel Comics isn't able to use Leopardon freely or Raimi's Spider-Man; those co-own stuff.
It seems to me the actual Holland's Spider-Man costume is in a grey area of co-ownership like Spider-Ham or Jessica Drew, since they couldn't depict it in the trailer.
 

Hellwarden

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,920
Is Morbius a popular character?

I'm not a big comicbook guy, but I don't think I've ever heard of Morbius.
 

Sandstar

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,518
OK now try reading the rest.

“I’ll tell you the truth: Tom Holland did film a scene for Venom… Marvel saw the movie and was like ‘Take him out. Take this scene out.’ Peter Parker was in Venom, not Spider-Man.”

I always use "was like" when I'm directly quoting someone. I'm sure that's a word for word recreation of what Fiege said, before slamming the phone down.

Followup question: who's Jay Washington? I did a search, and the guy in IMDB doesn't seem to have had anything to do with Venom, so I'm not sure where he got his information.

Yeah, checked the venom credits, no Jay Washington. So why would he know?
 

LewieP

Member
Oct 26, 2017
10,349
“I’ll tell you the truth: Tom Holland did film a scene for Venom… Marvel saw the movie and was like ‘Take him out. Take this scene out.’ Peter Parker was in Venom, not Spider-Man.”

I always use "was like" when I'm directly quoting someone. I'm sure that's a word for word recreation of what Fiege said, before slamming the phone down.

Followup question: who's Jay Washington? I did a search, and the guy in IMDB doesn't seem to have had anything to do with Venom, so I'm not sure where he got his information.

Yeah, checked the venom credits, no Jay Washington. So why would he know?
He hosts a film podcast, and is connected with a bunch of movie people. He didn't reveal his source, presumably because he didn't want them to get fired.

Are you saying that if something is paraphrased it is a lie?
 

Sandstar

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,518
He hosts a film podcast, and is connected with a bunch of movie people. He didn't reveal his source, presumably because he didn't want them to get fired.

Are you saying that if something is paraphrased it is a lie?
Um, well, unsourced claims are worthless. And I'm not saying it's a lie, just that I don't think I'd use a paraphrase to prove a point.
 

Grunge_Hamster

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
5,646
Is Morbius a popular character?

I'm not a big comicbook guy, but I don't think I've ever heard of Morbius.
No, he's like Firestar. As in a character that is mainly known for a cartoon series, and it's written mainly for team-ups (In the case of Morbius, sometimes when they deal with monsters he's the token vampire, like in the Frankencastle storyline).


Elsa Bloodstone has been more relevant / popular than Morbius in the last decade, and that's saying something.
 

Sandstar

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,518
Occam's razor applies.

What is your theory for why Tom Holland or Spider-Man, or even Tom Holland Spider-Man did not appear in Venom?
My theory? Marvel asked, and Sony decided to play nice, and didn't include it. Not that Marvel forced them, and that now Sony's some how negotiated the rights away from Marvel to a character they already had the rights to. What's your theory about why Marvel has the rights to Spider-Man?
 

MegaSackman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,840
Argentina
Is this leads up to Spider-Man turning into a real Spider, Morbius being hunted by Kraven, Connor helping Spider-Man with his situation and add in Punisher in the mix.

I'm in.
 

LewieP

Member
Oct 26, 2017
10,349
My theory? Marvel asked, and Sony decided to play nice, and didn't include it. Not that Marvel forced them, and that now Sony's some how negotiated the rights away from Marvel to a character they already had the rights to. What's your theory about why Marvel has the rights to Spider-Man?
My theory is that multimillion dollar agreements between corporations are governed by contracts, and when those contracts are renegotiated those terms can change. As is evidenced by the change in outcome since the renegotiation.
 

BrickArts295

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,731
I'm more distracted by the Raimi costume in that poster. The implications of that has me a bit hyped but I won't get crazy with theories.
 

Sandstar

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,518
My theory is that multimillion dollar agreements between corporations are governed by contracts, and when those contracts are renegotiated those terms can change. As is evidenced by the change in outcome since the renegotiation.
So, you think Sony negotiated the rights of Spider-Man to Marvel, and then used Venom to get them back?
 

LewieP

Member
Oct 26, 2017
10,349
I don't even know what LewieP is trying to argue at this point.
Marvel and Sony agreed a contract regarding use of ip and financial stuff.

This contract was renegotiated recently.

The renegotiation is likely why the spider-man poster is in Morbius.

Because prior to the renegotiation Sony had contractually agreed to not do things along those lines. Hence no Spider-Man in Venom.
 

Fury451

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,345
Is Morbius a popular character?

I'm not a big comicbook guy, but I don't think I've ever heard of Morbius.
Depends on the definition of popular. I would say he’s likely most recognizable to Spider-Man fans, and even then that’s probably because of the cartoon. He’s had his own comic several times and is one of the more famous “monster” characters in Marvel, but that’s not a famous pool in general.

He’s not solo movie famous.
 

ZeoVGM

Member
Oct 25, 2017
28,099
Providence / Boston
I'm more distracted by the Raimi costume in that poster. The implications of that has me a bit hyped but I won't get crazy with theories.
Don't get excited over any implications.

That was used for one of the following reasons:

- Incompetence.
- Somehow not being able to use the MCU Spider-Man costume but they still want this to be in the MCU.
- Placeholder.

Vulture at the end makes it clear that this is meant to be in the MCU.
 

Sandstar

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,518
Marvel and Sony agreed a contract regarding use of ip and financial stuff.

This contract was renegotiated recently.

The renegotiation is likely why the spider-man poster is in Morbius.

Because prior to the renegotiation Sony had contractually agreed to not do things along those lines. Hence no Spider-Man in Venom.
If they were contractually obligated not to use Spider-Man, why would they go to the expense of filming a scene using him in Venom?
 

LewieP

Member
Oct 26, 2017
10,349
If they were contractually obligated not to use Spider-Man, why would they go to the expense of filming a scene using him in Venom?
Because the contract likely said something like "can use Spider-Man/Peter Parker/Tom Holland, pending final approval from Marvel". Then Marvel saw the film and did not give final approval.

This is the simplest explaination for how things played out.
 

Sandstar

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,518
Because the contract likely said something like "can use Spider-Man/Peter Parker/Tom Holland, pending final approval from Marvel". Then Marvel saw the film and did not give final approval.

This is the simplest explaination for how things played out.
Oh,we can just make stuff up now? I guess the discussion's done if we're just going to include fanfiction. Thanks for the chat.
 

Surakian

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
1,274
Feige must be pissed this even has a relation to the MCU. It's so confusing though. Toomes is here but...is it MCU or is it Sony-verse? Both?

I didn't think I'd like Venom and now I'm Venom trash so maybe I'll become Morbius trash
 

LewieP

Member
Oct 26, 2017
10,349
Oh,we can just make stuff up now? I guess the discussion's done if we're just going to include fanfiction. Thanks for the chat.
Yeah your theory that Sony didn't use the incredibly valuable Spider-Man ip (outside of Venom etc) in Venom was just to be nice to Marvel rather than out of a contractual obligation.

And the contract between Sony and Marvel didn't have any terms explicitly spelled out, because I'm sure neither of those massive corporations have lawyers to oversee multi-million dollar partnerships, and just do things on handshake agreements.

And the tense, public, renegotiation concluded with "lets just renew the deal and not change anything".

And it is just a coincidence that Sony are doing different things with the highly valuable Spider-Man ip after the renegotiations concluded...
 

Yasuke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,408
Y'all forget about what happened to Spidey last summer?

Sony had more leverage to renegotiate the Sony/Marvel Studios agreement to their favour with the financial success of Vemon and Into the Spider-verse.

This is the fruition of the new deal.
I didn’t forget anything.

I don’t understand why this is happening. Disney doesn’t need this anymore than they need Spider-Man. If this was required to keep using him, they should’ve told Sony good luck and godspeed.
 

Theodran

Member
Oct 25, 2017
531
Japan
A lot of people are confused so I made a Venn diagram.



What this essentially means is that the Spider-Man movies (Homecoming, Far From Home) are canonical to both Marvel Cinematic Universe and the Sony Spider-Verse. This includes all characters involved. This was also confirmed in a joint statement from Sony and Marvel when they confirmed the third Spider-Man film.

Kevin Feige said:
Spider-Man is the only hero with the superpower to cross between Sony and Marvel’s cinematic universes, Mr. Feige said in a statement. “As Sony continues to develop their own Spidey-verse you never know what surprises the future might hold,” he added.
Aside from the Spider-Man movies, what happens in the Spider-Verse films should not affect the MCU movies and vice versa.
 

Grunge_Hamster

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
5,646
Blows that this might be our first introduction to what will inevitability be Blade's domain.
I bet Blade's vampires will be the kind of Marvel vampires, as in descendants of Vernae and all the Chton scrolls stuff


Morbius probably will feature regular vampires. (Or some kind of experiment gone wrong / science-made vampires)
 

Surakian

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
1,274
A lot of people are confused so I made a Venn diagram.



What this essentially means is that the Spider-Man movies (Homecoming, Far From Home) are canonical to both Marvel Cinematic Universe and the Sony Spider-Verse. This includes all characters involved. This was also confirmed in a joint statement from Sony and Marvel when they confirmed the third Spider-Man film.



Aside from the Spider-Man movies, what happens in the Spider-Verse films should not affect the MCU movies and vice versa.
That helped a lot, actually.
 

aerts1js

Member
May 11, 2019
635
Is Morbius a popular character?

I'm not a big comicbook guy, but I don't think I've ever heard of Morbius.
I definitely knew of Morbius when I was a kid, although then again I was a huge spider-man fan. He wasn't my favorite villain but he wasn't that bad either. I disagree with the poster saying that he's on the same level of firestar but he's not exactly A list either. Although neither was Iron Man before that movie came out so who knows.