They're not. These are amendments that were being voted on to be added to the bill. The bill requires a simple 51 majority to pass, these amendments require a full 60 votes to pass.
Reconciliation has a "vote-a-rama" process where any Senator can request votes on amendments so there's a lot of random shit like this. Just 2 or 3 amendments left until the final bill is passed.
User banned (1 month): transphobia
Wait is it considered transphobic if you don’t support transgender women competing in women’s sports? They do have many biological advantages in sports that come with increased testosterone even after hormone replacement therapy and gender reassignment surgery. It doesn’t seem fair to the other women. Then again it feels wrong to exclude them.
It's 100% of their appeal. It's why people pointing out that progressive policies poll really well is a red herring. Florida passed a higher minimum wage while also shifting even further towards Trump.
Why? Because GOP voters are voting based on racism, fear, and identity, not policy. For most of those voters there's no magical policy platform that could get them to vote for a Dem.
Aah okay. Thank you. I believe somebody already tried to explain it once but i still don’t fully get it. Doesn’t this slow shit down to a crawl?
I wonder if people are actually aware of this? Some of the replies in these threads lead me to believe that many aren't familiar with the system and the constituents in West Virginia.
Yes, which is why the Senate has been in session for over 24 hours lol
afaik it’s pretty contentious at the moment
physique and hormones vary greatly from competitor to competitor as it is, not sure drawing a line really accomplishes anything beyond helping spread hate but i don’t know where studies are at
Because it's not actually a covid relief bill it's a budget reconciliation bill that is being used to be cvoid relief because otherwise you'd need to nuke the filibuster to pass covid relief.
Yes it is transphobic or uninformed because that hasn’t played out whatsoever. Read this thread:
man I had someone say to basically run a progressive dem there, in all seriousness. after I explained how deep red the rest of that state is.
they can't actually be that stupid but still wanna act like manchin in a state like WV isn't a complete anomoly.
Unfortunately this is what happens when you run a progressive in West Virginia
Manchin is essentially like Jeff Van Drew and I fully expect him to change party affiliation before he is up for re-election. The Democrats are becoming more progressive and he's becoming more conservative. We got people losing their jobs, losing their unemployment, can't get a decent job, 1000s of deaths from covid, but the hill social conservatives like him want to die on is "we don't want transgendered women playing in sports."
Is it? If it gives him R cover in his state and was never going to pass, why wouldn't he vote for it?
It seems like a lot of folks on era only see things in black and white. There’s a lot of grey areas that exist with things like this, like where Manchin is from and the fact that we have a democratic leaning senator from a state that voted that largely for Trump.
At the end of the day, Manchin, like all senators, is trying to keep his job. And it’s fucked up our system rewards that rather than doing the right thing. But we are where we are. I don’t see it getting better.
Fuck Manchin and everybody else supporting this
The fuck is going on in this thread
There's plenty of ways to get R cover without voting for this bullshit discriminatory stuff lol
Am i wrong that the idea of there being a major difference when you have trans athletes is probably inaccurate...?
I could potentially see him retiring too. He's 73 and I believe his term is up in 2024 (someone please correct me if I'm wrong). That' puts him at 77.
Where's your red line on morally abhorrent votes a legislator could cast that 1) would never pass and thus 2) give someone "cover"?
What's the vote where it becomes "shit" to cast that vote, for you, despite all of the other circumstances remaining the same?
Framing the subject as "contentious" as if there are legit arguments on both sides, or suggesting there's need for more research is not a good look
Nah.
My view of Manchin as a human being is as low as you can get. But, he's also a WV D-Senator. So, it can always be worse. The question is whether you expect politicians to vote based on their morals or vote based on pure political capital. Or rather the question is whether Manchin voted on the amendment because he genuinely believed in it or whether he voted on it because he figured it would give him R cover so he could keep his seat and keep voting for more Dem policies. Then again, he also voted against $15 minimum wage, so...
Damn he was only try to give himself cover? Shit I thought he was just being transphobic. I'll be sure to let all the other trans people know. Though it is funny that he was willing to go against his voters when comes to the minimum wage or giving people bigger checks (things that are overwhelmingly popular in WV), but once trans people get involved then it becomes the time for him to listen to his voters. Very strange.
Fair enough, I didn’t know much about what had been proven since I last broached the subject a good while ago
yeah
please do not use trans people like this, or excuse it
Those are the questions as they pertain to Senator Joe Manchin.
The question posed to you was not those questions.
Where's your line where you'd find Manchin's vote abhorrent and "shit", as you disagreed with above.
I could totally seeing him switching parties and totally screwing Dems if pressed hard enough from the left, dude only looks out for himself. Makes me wish breyer would hurry up and retire and be replaced.
Claiming someone should vote for transphobia because it's politically expedient absolutely makes you a clown
If those huge advantages existed, where are all the trans olympians? At that level of competition, small physical advantages matter greatly.
It's almost like they're a transphobic myth.
Manchin, if he was voting based on realpolitick, should accept his loss as inevitable and work to ram through as much legislation as possible.
Whenever his vote matters.
He can vote for whatever abhorrent shit he wants, as long as it doesn't matter. As soon as it stops progressive shit from happening it becomes abhorrent as far as I'm concerned. Give him all the pork and R-cover he needs. But, the minute the fucker goes against the Dems in a needed vote that's when I lose my shit. So, things like the minimum wage increase where the motherfucker and seven other shit ass "Dems" voted against it.
EDIT:
After Trump, I don't give a shit about appearances. All I care about is getting what I want, which is progressive policies. I don't care what a politician has to do get them done.
Your last series of posts have been awful and at some point I'd hope you'd stop excusing transphobic shit and start digging up holy shit.
Do I need to spell out the various degrees of bigoted legislation he could cast a vote for that wouldn't put the legislation into effect but nevertheless puts him on the record in support?
You undoubtedly have a red line for where a vote becomes shit regardless of the realpolitik machinations involved.
Trans bigotry isn't it, so where is it?
I would hope you understand the point of this rhetorical exercise.
Yeah Paula Jean Swearengin ran a good, progressive campaign in West Virginia and got fucking bodied. West Virginia isn't sending us a real progressive unfortunately.
Who's been supporting him? If anything a bunch of here have been repeatedly trying to say, whenever every keeps going "Dems" as a collective (ie. "Dems are shooting themselves in the foot"), that not all people act with a progressive/liberal agenda
Everyone who wasn't a Republican got their ass kicked in November.
Hell, Manchin in 2018 only won re-election by 19k votes. That seat is flipping R the next time it's available.
That state is probably the reddest in the country, and I live in South Dakota.
User banned (2 months): Inflammatory thread derailment; rationalizing a transphobic vote over a series of posts.
As I said, after enduring Trump I don't care about morals only results. Joe Manhchin could personally call me a nigger to my face and I'd still be unphased if he voted with Dems for progressive legislation when it counts. I don't care for the man. He's not my friend. He votes transphobic. He's misogonystic. He's probably a racist. I don't care as long as his dumbass casts his votes with the rest of the democratic party when it counts. Because unless there is some progressive in WV that can primary his dumbass, an even shittier Republican is waiting in the shadows.
I only care about realpolitik. I only care about results now. Everything else is a luxury.
Could you define progressive so we know what that means to you?
Guess what, the really good cis-gendered female athletes also have testosterone advantage over the rest. Trans athletes don't necessarily have the highest amount.
For anyone who still doesn't get it.
Voting for transphobic shit gives it an air of legitimacy and helps sustain its presence in conversation and debate. Incredible that that has to be spelled out, especially over long-fought and recurring issues like trans athletes and inclusion in sport.
What are you even doing here? There are trans people living in West Virginia. Joe Manchin should stand for their human rights as their representative. Your stance is "throw disadvantaged people under the bus when convenient". Do you understand how gross the argument that you are making in this thread is? Manchin is helping give transphobia weight and reach with his vote here, making it a bipartisan position.