Mortal Kombat 11: Please have GOOD animations finally

[The Turbanator]

street fighter also looks like this

no character with the graphical fidelity of mk is gonna look right throwing out a punch in 3 frames. the more 'realistic' something looks the less data we're willing to fill in between frames.

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Your reasoning makes sense, but not your point. Yes, it's harder for our brains to make sense out of a real 3F punch than a cartoon 3F punch. Wouldn't that just mean those 3 frames have to be even more intricate and thoughtful in the realistic game rather than just dismiss it altogether?

Is it that the animations suck or people don't know the reason behind hitstop animation for a fighting game?

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The animations suck. There is no feeling of hitstop or impact in MK. SFV, Tekken, and even Smash (ESPECIALLY Ultimate) have amazing feelings of hitstop. The screen will shake with every heavy hit, and the game will all but freeze to let you know that somebody just got knocked the fuck out.

 

[ShadowSwordmaster]

I doubt they will make any improvements when it comes to animation to the extent that it will make people happy.

 

[Khezu]

I doubt they will make any improvements when it comes to animation to the extent that it will make people happy.

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It doesn't have to be great or blow me away.
They just need to scrub out all the goofy awkward animations because it distracts from the overall package so much.

When you have characters like Flash or Darksied look so amazing in the game and then they punch and kick the way they do, it just looks wrong.
It doesn't need be as good as SFV, it just needs to not be so bad it's immersion breaking.

 

[Stone Ocean]

Its apparently a conscious design choice so I doubt they'll be going away.

 

[Liquor]

Its apparently a conscious design choice so I doubt they'll be going away.

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This excuse just doesn't really work, because everything about the modern MK games contradicts this.

What part of this animation invokes Kung-Fu films? No one does in this the old games. Well that's just one example. Let's look at some others.

These punches do not exist in the older games. No one in any Kung-Fu film performed an attack like these. Ok, but still, it's gotta be intentional, right? They want their games to look bad. They want their fighters to look weak and have no balance or actual ideal of martial arts. Right? But then why is everything outside of the in-game stuff mocapped and very well done? Fatalities, cut-scenes?

It's obvious they didn't mocap most of the normal attacks and only used the technique on bigger flashier stuff. Which leaves their inexperienced guys at "making up attacks" and not using any sort of real world reference, because let's be real. MK ain't "cartoony". Yea, we have a few people turning into animals but they ain't turning into cartoon animals. They are turning into realistic depictions of creatures. The characters themselves started out as real people, and the 3D games do their best to emulate that realism.

TL;DR This ain't intentional.

EDIT -And why would Injustice suffer the same bad animation issues since it bares no connection to old Kung-Fu films (which MK doesn't either despite it constantly being brought up as a counterpoint, because no one behaves like this in Kung-Fu films) or to any legacy game series dating back to old 2D titles. Seems like the only common thread is the creators. There's no reason to make Darkside look like B movie Kung-Fu, "old MK game" ass via his animations. These excuses just fall apart under scrutiny.

 

[Kurdel]

These games have alwas felt like B movies to me, the janky animation definitely has it's charm in my eyes

 

[Khezu]

It's obvious they didn't mocap most of the normal attacks and only used the technique on bigger flashier stuff. Which leaves their inexperienced guys at "making up attacks" and not using any sort of real world reference, because let's do real. MK ain't "cartooney". Yea, we have a few people turning into animals but they ain't turning into cartoon animals. They are turning into realistic depictions of creatures. The characters themselves started out as real people, and the 3D games do their best to emulate that realism.

TL;DR This ain't intentional.

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To me it seems like their need to have every single character have a shit ton of normal's and strings, so like 20% of moves get higher priority and get decent animations, well everything else is just filler and animated by interns and looks straight garbage.

There is no reason for every character to have 10 strings with unique animations, it's such a huge waste of time since most of them end up being pointless.

They need to significantly cut down on the characters movesets and polish it.

 

[Kapryov]

The modern MK series is great, it would be amazing if they could elevate the animations to the level of quality that the rest of the game has.

But, at the same time, there's a part of me that secretly hopes we get more awkward animations somewhere in there, just because these gifs are stupidly funny. I love this thread.

 

[Rendering...]

The clunky animation is one of the main things that has put me off the new MK games. It's terribad.

 

[NekoNeko]

these are some of the ugliest games ever, the excuse that it is a style choice is laughable.

 

[VanDoughnut]

The game will still be visually stunning I bet, but the animations will probably be still be as clunky as ever. I don't see them improving that much. We'll see when the gameplay trailer comes out.

But yeah imagine these games with animations that don't look so stiff, missed opportunity. While I'll still buy the game cause I enjoy them despite this, an animation overhaul is much needed.

 

[Huey]

It's amazing to be me I guess, cause I enjoy their games and I don't even notice bad animations. Like, I normally can notice such things in other games.

It's weird :P

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i dont really notice the bad animations people point out...its just apart of their gameplay system. in cut-scenes everything looks great

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I'm surprised there are people who don't notice, it's always seemed like sort of a mash up of janky old sped-up footage from a silent movie and Benny hill.

Agree with OP that having SF or VF quality of animations would be great.

 

[Liquor]

It's not in cutscenes. That is a flat out lie. The cut scenes are mocap sessions and always look spectacular. There's nothing "sped-up or benny Hill about them. And why would MK try to invoke Benny Hill? lol

And I already shot down how it's got nothing to do with "gameplay": You can animate these properly, and have the same timing, frames of animation, and damage and it wouldn't affect how the game actually played.

 

[JusDoIt]

I think the only way MK can pull off animation that matches its visual style is to slow the game down to like Tekken's speed...which would be very weird on a 2D plane, but even then you'll have a posture problem because of the perspective.

It's just always going to look funky.

 

[BBboy20]

America doesn't care.

Will Netherrealms anyways?

 

[RSTEIN]

This excuse just doesn't really work, because everything about the modern MK games contradicts this.

What part of this animation invokes Kung-Fu films? No one does in this the old games. Well that's just one example. Let's look at some others.

These punches do not exist in the older games. No one in any Kung-Fu film performed an attack like these. Ok, but still, it's gotta be intentional, right? They want their games to look bad. They want their fighters to look weak and have no balance or actual ideal of martial arts. Right? But then why is everything outside of the in-game stuff mocapped and very well done? Fatalities, cut-scenes?

It's obvious they didn't mocap most of the normal attacks and only used the technique on bigger flashier stuff. Which leaves their inexperienced guys at "making up attacks" and not using any sort of real world reference, because let's be real. MK ain't "cartoony". Yea, we have a few people turning into animals but they ain't turning into cartoon animals. They are turning into realistic depictions of creatures. The characters themselves started out as real people, and the 3D games do their best to emulate that realism.

TL;DR This ain't intentional.

EDIT -And why would Injustice suffer the same bad animation issues since it bares no connection to old Kung-Fu films (which MK doesn't either despite it constantly being brought up as a counterpoint, because no one behaves like this in Kung-Fu films) or to any legacy game series dating back to old 2D titles. Seems like the only common thread is the creators. There's no reason to make Darkside look like B movie Kung-Fu, "old MK game" ass via his animations. These excuses just fall apart under scrutiny.

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How would you design that differently? You need to have a high, forward advancing fast punch that transitions into either a string(s) or special. Also this high punch can be repeated every seven frames if the player wants to. You're pretty limited with animation options, no?

 

[Heid]

I'm surprised there are people who don't notice, it's always seemed like sort of a mash up of janky old sped-up footage from a silent movie and Benny hill.

Agree with OP that having SF or VF quality of animations would be great.

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Having examples of games that do it properly conveys the difference very well. Still its weird, why do I need an example of how humans look/move lol

How would you design that differently? You need to have a high, forward advancing fast punch that transitions into either a string(s) or special. Also this high punch can be repeated every seven frames if the player wants to. You're pretty limited with animation options, no?

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Watch the vid everyone is talking about. I put a timestamp in for what you're talking about;

 

[Ste]

I am unable to play mortal kombat games with how it was in previous games so if they do change it for the better then I will unfortunately skip 11.

 

[Liquor]

How would you design that differently? You need to have a high, forward advancing fast punch that transitions into either a string(s) or special. Also this high punch can be repeated every seven frames if the player wants to. You're pretty limited with animation options, no?

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I'm confused. Are you saying animating a proper punch is impossible?

lol

 

[RSTEIN]

I'm confused. Are you saying animating a proper punch is impossible?

lol

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What's a proper punch? What fighting style? Anyways, we're well beyond the realm of proper punches. Forward advancing seven frame high punch that transitions to string or cancellable into a multitude of specials. Keep in mind player can run, backdash or block instantly.

Not saying nrs can't improve. Just saying it's a unique game so it might not be as easy as everyone is saying.

 

[RustyNails]

This excuse just doesn't really work, because everything about the modern MK games contradicts this.

What part of this animation invokes Kung-Fu films? No one does in this the old games. Well that's just one example. Let's look at some others.

These punches do not exist in the older games. No one in any Kung-Fu film performed an attack like these. Ok, but still, it's gotta be intentional, right? They want their games to look bad. They want their fighters to look weak and have no balance or actual ideal of martial arts. Right? But then why is everything outside of the in-game stuff mocapped and very well done? Fatalities, cut-scenes?

It's obvious they didn't mocap most of the normal attacks and only used the technique on bigger flashier stuff. Which leaves their inexperienced guys at "making up attacks" and not using any sort of real world reference, because let's be real. MK ain't "cartoony". Yea, we have a few people turning into animals but they ain't turning into cartoon animals. They are turning into realistic depictions of creatures. The characters themselves started out as real people, and the 3D games do their best to emulate that realism.

TL;DR This ain't intentional.

EDIT -And why would Injustice suffer the same bad animation issues since it bares no connection to old Kung-Fu films (which MK doesn't either despite it constantly being brought up as a counterpoint, because no one behaves like this in Kung-Fu films) or to any legacy game series dating back to old 2D titles. Seems like the only common thread is the creators. There's no reason to make Darkside look like B movie Kung-Fu, "old MK game" ass via his animations. These excuses just fall apart under scrutiny.

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All of this.

 

[jett]

How would you design that differently? You need to have a high, forward advancing fast punch that transitions into either a string(s) or special. Also this high punch can be repeated every seven frames if the player wants to. You're pretty limited with animation options, no?

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None of these characters are advancing, they're stuck in place. Transitioning into other attacks is no problem for other fighters, neither is spamming a quick punch. So we're simply just stuck with punches that have extremely shitty form. How do you fix that? You give them good form. Good posture. Have them use the core of their body. Proper footing. Put some fucking power into those fucking things. For NRS to have decent animation they need to overhaul their own particular combat aesthetic. Essentially ditch it. Basically, stop recreating this shit:

I'll give you some examples of "high punches" in SFV.

And like I said, spamming attacks isn't an (animation) issue.

 

[free_bubble]

Lol I love the snarky, yet not so subtle way you dodged the question. By all means, explain why the animation in your words "sucks".

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I doubt anyone understood your original "question." How does hitstop factor into the awkward, anatomy and physics-defying animations in NRS games, especially since those games notably lack the type of exaggerated hitstop of other fighters? Looks like you came into this thread with drive-by snark with zero actual content and then got indignant when somebody pointed it out. But maybe my eyes are playing tricks on me. After all, I think this looks horrible:

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[Silky]

Pretty amazing that Double Helix can make better fighting game animations than NetherRealm lol

 

[SinkFla]

They've always improved on things people complain about with every new game so we probably will see improved animations in 11. With that said, and as someone who literally plays/has played nearly every fighting game (sans Smash and KOF these days, and SFV as of late) that's been released over the past decade I never understood these complaints. I definitely noticed it in MK9 and Injustice 1 to a small degree but since then I can't tell the difference between a bad Injustice 2 animation and a good SFV animation. They've improved on their character faces and by God those awful MKX necks (see Jacqui lol). Can someone please point out what they think are an example of amazing current era fighting game animations? And bad (recent) Injustice 2 animations?

 

[XaviConcept]

Hahaha, not gonna happen. They actually consider their animation quality to be legacy stuff that they refuse to change. Even the trailer had the typical stiff as hell animations.

Lot of burnout happens at NR, they have a ton of senior talent that has been there forever and is extremely anti change. Their facial stuff in Injustice 2 is more nice tech than actual animations and since they dont match up at all with the full body anims it actually ends up looking pretty uneven.

 

[jett]

They've always improved on things people complain about with every new game so we probably will see improved animations in 11. With that said, and as someone who literally plays/has played nearly every fighting game (sans Smash and KOF these days, and SFV as of late) that's been released over the past decade I never understood these complaints. I definitely noticed it in MK9 and Injustice 1 to a small degree but since then I can't tell the difference between a bad Injustice 2 animation and a good SFV animation. They've improved on their character faces and by God those awful MKX necks (see Jacqui lol). Can someone please point out what they think are an example of amazing current era fighting game animations? And bad (recent) Injustice 2 animations?

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Enjoy

 

[Brix]

They've always improved on things people complain about with every new game so we probably will see improved animations in 11. With that said, and as someone who literally plays/has played nearly every fighting game (sans Smash and KOF these days, and SFV as of late) that's been released over the past decade I never understood these complaints. I definitely noticed it in MK9 and Injustice 1 to a small degree but since then I can't tell the difference between a bad Injustice 2 animation and a good SFV animation. They've improved on their character faces and by God those awful MKX necks (see Jacqui lol). Can someone please point out what they think are an example of amazing current era fighting game animations? And bad (recent) Injustice 2 animations?

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https://youtu.be/gbNWb-vmlB4

 

[RSTEIN]

None of these characters are advancing, they're stuck in place. Transitioning into other attacks is no problem for other fighters, neither is spamming a quick punch. So we're simply just stuck with punches that have extremely shitty form. How do you fix that? You give them good form. Good posture. Have them use the core of their body. Proper footing. Put some fucking power into those fucking things. For NRS to have decent animation they need to overhaul their own particular combat aesthetic. Essentially ditch it. Basically, stop recreating this shit:

I'll give you some examples of "high punches" in SFV.

And like I said, spamming attacks isn't an (animation) issue.

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What I meant by advancing is the reach of the punch. I call it advance because it's beyond what would be a stationary reach. See in the mk animations above the characters are reaching well beyond their front foot and well beyond the street fighter animations. In mk, with its speed and dial a combos, a strings reach is very important (and usually balanced by slower start up or fewer cancellable options). However... the characters still have to be stationary because they can block/run/backdash/d4 or whatever. Plus has to be faster in general than SF or no hitstop. Much faster than the Ken animation above. So back to my question... how can this be done differently?Extend the fighter well beyond their front foot but also be stationary, cancellable, 7-8 frames, lightning fast, etc.

 

[Wamb0wneD]

It's animations are OK, and they make the newer games have the same feel as the ones with digitalized actors. Not every game has to have that generic japanese look.

DAILY REMINDER that SF fans defend Falke's animation using the "she's super serious and stiff" excuse, but MK having similar animations to the classic games is a problem.

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I got piled on here, including lots of "you never played a fighting game did you?" because I found a single animation of hers too stiff lol.
Disagree on your other statement though, I don't think MKs animations look ok.

 

[SinkFla]

I got piled on here, including lots of "you never palyed a fighting game did you?" because I found a single animation of hers too stiff lol.

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Not surprised, any complaints about SFV Fight Money turns into "this is what people who don't play the game say" lol.

I'll watch those animations videos in a minute (all done by the same guy lol).

 

[jett]

What I meant by advancing is the reach of the punch. I call it advance because it's beyond what would be a stationary reach. See in the mk animations above the characters are reaching well beyond their front foot and well beyond the street fighter animations. In mk, with its speed and dial a combos, a strings reach is very important (and usually balanced by slower start up or fewer cancellable options). However... the characters still have to be stationary because they can block/run/backdash/d4 or whatever. Plus has to be faster in general than SF or no hitstop. Much faster than the Ken animation above. So back to my question... how can this be done differently?Extend the fighter well beyond their front foot but also be stationary, cancellable, 7-8 frames, lightning fast, etc.

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Man, I already showed you how a punch can be animated decently, quickly, and with a limited number of frames.

I guess I need to simplify my answer: NRS needs to stop animating their characters like utter trash. The way they make their characters punch needs to go. It needs to be deleted and replaced by something actually competent. There's no fixing that. You fix it by throwing it into the garbage chute.

 

[Bob White]

Real talk...the bad animation and "punching over the fence" will only be fixed if Ed Boon takes a boxing class. I forgot which vid, but it was some old footage of Ed directing the actors how to punch. And Ed was pretty much telling them to copy his no center of gravity hay maker punches. The type of punches that kids think are really good.

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Horrible

 

[SinkFla]

Real talk...the bad animation and "punching over the fence" will only be fixed if Ed Boon takes a boxing class. I forgot which vid, but it was some old footage of Ed directing the actors how to punch. And Ed was pretty much telling them to copy his no center of gravity hay maker punches. The type of punches that kids think are really good.
Horrible

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Picking apart an animation from 1993 is silly lol.

I definitely can see how NRS animations aren't as exaggerated as typical Capcom animations but some of those nitpicks are just... Incredible nitpicks lol. And the dude straight up admits he's angry about the game winning best fighting game of the year which I'm sure has nothing to do with his obsessive dismantling of anything NRS :p. (I'm referring to the I2 video)

I think a lot of it just has to do with the base mechanics (as much as that guy wants to dispute that fact) more than anything. Tekken definitely has better animations overall but your fastest normal is typically around 13f where as in MK and I2 you're looking at 6f (a lot less time to sell it). Also if you want to compare SF to MK I think a big part lies in how the attack buttons and combo systems actually function. MK uses a combination of special moves (mb/ex and normal) with what you may call target combos in SF (Kombos, chain combos, etc in MK) which by the way to my recollection are not typically cancelable sans VTrigger (SFV) or at all (prior entries). I think part of those animation problems in MK lies in trying to relay/display proper information when you have many avenues in which you can continue on from those "Kombos" and the game is trying to account for that. The attempt at actual realism vs. realism through only animations themselves hurt it as well. It might look okay let's say cancelling a 1,2 into special but might look terrible cancelling a crouching 1 into that same special.

A standing or crouching 1 in NRS can be a (multi hitting) target combo in itself which can often be cancelled into specials. SF is more grounded in "links" rather than combo cancels and because of that you see specific normals complete their animations before continuing said combos where as in NRS the end of a target combo may look silly without the special cancel.

TLDR:
I do believe animations can definitely be improved going forward (in regards to showing torque and weight to attacks) but IMO it is nowhere near as bad as people seem to make it out to be. Its distraction level is totally dependent on whether or not you enjoy the core gameplay and how upset you are your game didn't get game of the year awards lol. Fight me.

 

[Philly Cheesesteak]

I doubt anyone understood your original "question." How does hitstop factor into the awkward, anatomy and physics-defying animations in NRS games, especially since those games notably lack the type of exaggerated hitstop of other fighters? Looks like you came into this thread with drive-by snark with zero actual content and then got indignant when somebody pointed it out. But maybe my eyes are playing tricks on me. After all, I think this looks horrible:

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So your evidence is two gifs that looks horrible to you and more snark? Ignored.

 

[SinkFla]

So your evidence is two gifs that looks horrible to you and more snark? Ignored.

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A lot of NRS hate boils down to elitism so expect more snark than smart. :P

 

[TaterTots]

None of these characters are advancing, they're stuck in place. Transitioning into other attacks is no problem for other fighters, neither is spamming a quick punch. So we're simply just stuck with punches that have extremely shitty form. How do you fix that? You give them good form. Good posture. Have them use the core of their body. Proper footing. Put some fucking power into those fucking things. For NRS to have decent animation they need to overhaul their own particular combat aesthetic. Essentially ditch it. Basically, stop recreating this shit:

I'll give you some examples of "high punches" in SFV.

And like I said, spamming attacks isn't an (animation) issue.

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You think current NRS games look like MKI animations? Then you proceed to show gifs of a current gen game right after it. I've had enough of the internet for the day.

 

[BBboy20]

Well, those punches are rather iconic.

 

[Bjones]

Not gonna happen. They'll say that the clunky animations are a stylistic choice and part of what makes the game unique and recognizable lol.

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They are correct.. please NR don't listen to these people.

 

[Philly Cheesesteak]

A lot of NRS hate boils down to elitism so expect more snark than smart. :P

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I mean, I get it. NRS obviously has some outdated animations that need to be tuned up. However, people aren't taking into account that these "goofy" animations probably aren't touched due to it being easier on the animators and the system programmers to program combos, making the hitstop even that more noticeable since the animations aren't fully playing out. Like you said though, definitely seeing a lot of elitism in this thread.

 

[jett]

You think current NRS games look like MKI animations? Then you proceed to show gifs of a current gen game right after it. I've had enough of the internet for the day.

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I guess reading comprehension is not your forté.

The kind of dumb, overreaching punching we see in MKX is CLEARLY AND RATHER OBVIOUSLY based on the punching from the first two games.

 

[RSTEIN]

Man, I already showed you how a punch can be animated decently, quickly, and with a limited number of frames.

I guess I need to simplify my answer: NRS needs to stop animating their characters like utter trash. The way they make their characters punch needs to go. It needs to be deleted and replaced by something actually competent. There's no fixing that. You fix it by throwing it into the garbage chute.

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The videos you quoted have many excellent points. But like others they don't take into consideration the entire (unique) system. For example, the posture. You can't have good posture if you want someone's punch to reach 3 feet beyond their leading foot and have their lower body ready for a crouch or back dash or cancellable into a teleport.

 

[jett]

You can't have good posture if you want someone's punch to reach 3 feet beyond their leading foot and have their lower body ready for a crouch or back dash or cancellable into a teleport.

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Right, so the answer is stop making your characters do that shit.

 

[TaterTots]

I guess reading comprehension is not your forté.

The kind of dumb, overreaching punching we see in MKX is CLEARLY AND RATHER OBVIOUSLY based on the punching from the first two games.

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Oh. Aren't you a polite one. If there was anything substantial to be read in your post I would of known. Instead, it was a few sentences and a bunch of gifs. The animations from MK1 and MKX do not look the same at all. You're reaching. "Based on." Maybe, but they don't look as shit.

 

[VariantX]

To me it seems like their need to have every single character have a shit ton of normal's and strings, so like 20% of moves get higher priority and get decent animations, well everything else is just filler and animated by interns and looks straight garbage.

There is no reason for every character to have 10 strings with unique animations, it's such a huge waste of time since most of them end up being pointless.

They need to significantly cut down on the characters movesets and polish it.

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I still don't even understand why even have a stance flip button. Just make the character face one way at all times like every other 2D fighting game ever. Its like they added something into MK that has no business being there. That button could be used for something else.

 

[HypedBeast]

The videos you quoted have many excellent points. But like others they don't take into consideration the entire (unique) system. For example, the posture. You can't have good posture if you want someone's punch to reach 3 feet beyond their leading foot and have their lower body ready for a crouch or back dash or cancellable into a teleport.

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This dosent make sense. What does the animation being cancellable into a movement option (something not unique to MK) have to do with having good keyposes for moves and well animated strikes?

 

[DatManOvaDer]

NRS games are not animated well when it comes to gameplay animations. It has nothing to do with "elitism" or being a fanboy of a specific series. Literally every other fighting game on the market animates better than anything they put out. A lot of people who complain want to enjoy their games. I'm one of them. The poor animations, however, take too much away for some people. The quality of animation contributes directly to how the game feels and partly because of their poor quality, the game feels less than stellar to actually play. It's fine if it doesn't bother you or you like it. But trying to downplay or handwave complaints with "lol sf fanboy" or just snark in general does nothing to contribute to an actual discussion. You just look incredibly defensive for no reason.

 

[RSTEIN]

Right, so the answer is stop making your characters do that shit.

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But that's kind of a distinguishing feature of the game. Good vs bad strings. Good starters. Closing space quickly.

 

[Whales]

I love these threads because they always get filled up with beautiful SFV animation posts

wheres my ryu solar plexus gif at

 

[Deleted member 17388]

Reminds me of this, regarding Sakurai on Smash animations:

Either way, I've noticed how, dunno, momentumless Injustice characters feel when playing. It was hard to enjoy for me, but then again I'm not their audience and their games are selling well so I feel they have no reason to change it.