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Mortal Kombat 11 Roster & Stages Discussion Thread
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Frost seems like a giant waste of space. MIleena and Reptile will most likely be DLC if they're not in. Ermac is not as iconic, so he can sit this one out if it means making room for Rain and Jade.
I'm a bit surprised that it doesn't seem like either Kung Jin or Takeda are making the cut. The latter is not a big loss, but I really want them to continue the story arc of the former. More focus on Shaolin and White Lotus is a good thing. They need to move beyond just being Raiden, Liu Kang and Kung Lao already. Make room for Fujin, Kung Jin and Kai.
Speaking of which - Fujin needs to be part of the base roster. It seems so strange to me having Dark Raiden, but no Fujin to counter balance it.
I'm a bit surprised that it doesn't seem like either Kung Jin or Takeda are making the cut. The latter is not a big loss, but I really want them to continue the story arc of the former. More focus on Shaolin and White Lotus is a good thing. They need to move beyond just being Raiden, Liu Kang and Kung Lao already. Make room for Fujin, Kung Jin and Kai.
Speaking of which - Fujin needs to be part of the base roster. It seems so strange to me having Dark Raiden, but no Fujin to counter balance it.
Been saying this the whole time. It would be foolish of Ed to not include him in the base roster, especially since he's always mentioning these "wanted" characters from polls and such.
Btw, are any of these popularity polls public? Has there been any voting for characters pre MK11 announcement?
Afaik Boon/NRS stated somewhere that you aren't gonna fight characters that aren't in the roster this time.
Edit: And by "stated somewhere" I mean I read this in this thread somewhere, so not really sure.
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All but guaranteed. MK has a LONG history of fightable characters in story mode that aren't on the base roster. Deception had countless characters you could bump into and fight, while MKX had Baraka, Rain, and Sindel as NPC fighters that never made their way to DLC.
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Just curious, do you have any insight on how the process of setting up achievements on Steam works?
My understanding is that for these to show up on SteamDB, it means they were actually implementing them and SteamDB just captured a snapshot of all the actual changes. (i.e. these were actuallly being set up, even if just placeholders)
I think it was mentioned there would be six characters per Kombat Pack? I could be remembering that incorrectly, but MKX got half returning and half guest characters for DLC. If we're getting six per pack, and we end up with two packs, that would be six of those classic characters returning, which would be decent. But even with that, no way should some of them be allocated to DLC. Fujin still sticks out even as DLC...
A large portion of those ~70 characters are not high in demand. There aren't many people who would complain if Motaro, Jarek, Meat, Drahmin, Mavado, Mokap and the like don't return. We're talking about legit classic characters that have missed the last game or two AND are high in demand.
Fujin missing is the biggest tell that something is up. However, I don't agree with all the people talking down about Frost. Looking at how they've changed Baraka and Kabal, I expect Frost to be pretty on point and far from a Sub-Zero clone. Although I would laugh hard if she gets Ice Clone.
Speaking of Ice Clones, Tom Brady has been taking donations for a new Living Guide app that would be $0.99 at launch. The first one was great (although he did steal my frame data work), but times have changed since then. I feel like everything that would be in a Living Guide for MK11 would be available faster and for free via a Google Doc.
As they themselves had said, "everyone has a fanbase". Even Hsu Hao.
I'm a big fan of Sareena, despite her appearance in only one GBA game and Armageddon. Fujin's popular despite only appearing in the lukewarm MK4 and Armageddon as playable. Hotaru and Havik have their fans. Reiko has a following. MK9 made fans out of "lesser" MK characters like Stryker and Nightwolf. My biggest win-streak in any fighting game ever was with Sheeva.
I mean, I'll even say that, for all his issues, Drahmin is a wickedly awesome concept fighter with some amazing background history. I would LOVE to see them revamp him into a more potent threat. I mean, look at what they crafted for Drahmin's first appearance.
I've often felt that NO MK character isn't viable for a revamp or a redo, especially given how vastly different current MK games look and play to the games many of these characters debuted in. If a character like Frost appears, she's going to look and play 100% different to her Deadly Alliance incarnation, give or take a themed elements (ice). I used to do weekly "Kharacter of the Week" breakdowns on MK characters and was always amazed that almost all of them - by and large - were viable candidates for inclusion in any future MK games because they often had enough lore or personality that would justify their appearance and make their returns consistently "fresh". I mean, if you haven't seen Havik since the PS2 era, imagine what his limb-snapping, self-mutilating attacks might look like with current technology? Imagine how much gooey and drippy you could make Meat? Making Mavado a viable fighter with his rope-whip maneuvers in a 2D plane would benefit him much better than the 3D field ever did. Etc.
From Khameleon to Li Mei, from Bo'Rai Cho to Darrius, from Kobra to Kai (huzzah!), MK's cast of "second-stringers" all could benefit from renewed spotlight and revamped moves that work them into modern MK gameplay. There's very few I would be outright upset to see included because any reappearance would almost be like a new character reveal at this point given how different they'd all look and play.
As they themselves had said, "everyone has a fanbase". Even Hsu Hao.
I'm a big fan of Sareena, despite her appearance in only one GBA game and Armageddon. Fujin's popular despite only appearing in the lukewarm MK4 and Armageddon as playable. Hotaru and Havik have their fans. Reiko has a following. MK9 made fans out of "lesser" MK characters like Stryker and Nightwolf. My biggest win-streak in any fighting game ever was with Sheeva.
I mean, I'll even say that, for all his issues, Drahmin is a wickedly awesome concept fighter with some amazing background history. I would LOVE to see them revamp him into a more potent threat. I mean, look at what they crafted for Drahmin's first appearance.
I've often felt that NO MK character isn't viable for a revamp or a redo, especially given how vastly different current MK games look and play to the games many of these characters debuted in. If a character like Frost appears, she's going to look and play 100% different to her Deadly Alliance incarnation, give or take a themed elements (ice). I used to do weekly "Kharacter of the Week" breakdowns on MK characters and was always amazed that almost all of them - by and large - were viable candidates for inclusion in any future MK games because they often had enough lore or personality that would justify their appearance and make their returns consistently "fresh". I mean, if you haven't seen Havik since the PS2 era, imagine what his limb-snapping, self-mutilating attacks might look like with current technology? Imagine how much gooey and drippy you could make Meat? Making Mavado a viable fighter with his rope-whip maneuvers in a 2D plane would benefit him much better than the 3D field ever did. Etc.
From Khameleon to Li Mei, from Bo'Rai Cho to Darrius, from Kobra to Kai (huzzah!), MK's cast of "second-stringers" all could benefit from renewed spotlight and revamped moves that work them into modern MK gameplay. There's very few I would be outright upset to see included because any reappearance would almost be like a new character reveal at this point given how different they'd all look and play.
I agree with all of that... but it has little to do with what I said.
I didn't say they shouldn't bring these characters back, or that these characters are not worthy of returning. In my last few posts I've made it very clear that Fujin missing is a big reason I think we don't have the whole roster. Saying few people would complain if some of these characters are missing, or that they aren't in high demand, is not the same as saying they shouldn't return.
Your original statement was about how some characters won't make the cut because MK has nearly 70 in total. I simply responded with the fact that we're not expecting a bulk of those 70 characters and few would complain if many of them don't return. I'm specifically talking about the big names that people will complain about if they don't return.
Good write up.As they themselves had said, "everyone has a fanbase". Even Hsu Hao.
I'm a big fan of Sareena, despite her appearance in only one GBA game and Armageddon. Fujin's popular despite only appearing in the lukewarm MK4 and Armageddon as playable. Hotaru and Havik have their fans. Reiko has a following. MK9 made fans out of "lesser" MK characters like Stryker and Nightwolf. My biggest win-streak in any fighting game ever was with Sheeva.
I mean, I'll even say that, for all his issues, Drahmin is a wickedly awesome concept fighter with some amazing background history. I would LOVE to see them revamp him into a more potent threat. I mean, look at what they crafted for Drahmin's first appearance.
I've often felt that NO MK character isn't viable for a revamp or a redo, especially given how vastly different current MK games look and play to the games many of these characters debuted in. If a character like Frost appears, she's going to look and play 100% different to her Deadly Alliance incarnation, give or take a themed elements (ice). I used to do weekly "Kharacter of the Week" breakdowns on MK characters and was always amazed that almost all of them - by and large - were viable candidates for inclusion in any future MK games because they often had enough lore or personality that would justify their appearance and make their returns consistently "fresh". I mean, if you haven't seen Havik since the PS2 era, imagine what his limb-snapping, self-mutilating attacks might look like with current technology? Imagine how much gooey and drippy you could make Meat? Making Mavado a viable fighter with his rope-whip maneuvers in a 2D plane would benefit him much better than the 3D field ever did. Etc.
From Khameleon to Li Mei, from Bo'Rai Cho to Darrius, from Kobra to Kai (huzzah!), MK's cast of "second-stringers" all could benefit from renewed spotlight and revamped moves that work them into modern MK gameplay. There's very few I would be outright upset to see included because any reappearance would almost be like a new character reveal at this point given how different they'd all look and play.
NRS are very good at revamping characters. I dont mind them bringing any character back. In fact that pleases me. Look at Scarlet. She was pretty generic, now she's a bad ass blood bender.
To be fair, that would pretty much be all of MKT/MK9 which is a lot.
Eh... MKT had 33 characters, and I don't think we'd see many complaints if the game lacked Goro, Kintaro, Motaro or Chameleon (either version), which leaves us with 29 characters, 15 of which are already in MK11. Most of the main cast was in Trilogy and most of the missing people are included in the list I posted before. It's mainly the 3D era characters that wouldn't be missed as much (comparatively).
Some of them could make it in, but not all. You have to make room for new characters too, both from MKX and those who are brand new to this game. Ermac is not a must. Nor is Human Smoke or Sindel. It's nice when we get them, but they're not as iconic as Reptile or Mileena, which will definitely be missed if not included.
I have to say, as a MK fan who mostly comes for the story and single player modes, the inclusion of Frost Kotal and Jacqui have me pretty excited. If we can just get Sareena or Ashra I would be super excited. I feel like people underestimate what Frost can provide the story. The MKX timeline established that earthrealm was uniting it's factions to defend itself, and with Scorpion and Sub-Zero allies now, the Lin Kuei would be a part of that. Frost would make sense to join the next gen characters like Cassie.
I know some people are anticipating that this game will be the end of the new timeline formed in 9, but I feel like this is the opposite. For some reason this game makes me think of some sort of crisis event in comics. The old heroes of the past timeline will come, help face their revenants and decide to help preserve this new timeline.
Mileena, Shange Tsung, and Ermac, and others will have their chance to return, but I don't think MK should have to include almost every single character from the original trilogy in each game. Give some of the more promising PS2 era characters the benefit of a decent story mode, and good performers, and they might actually shine and become worthwhile.
I know some people are anticipating that this game will be the end of the new timeline formed in 9, but I feel like this is the opposite. For some reason this game makes me think of some sort of crisis event in comics. The old heroes of the past timeline will come, help face their revenants and decide to help preserve this new timeline.
Mileena, Shange Tsung, and Ermac, and others will have their chance to return, but I don't think MK should have to include almost every single character from the original trilogy in each game. Give some of the more promising PS2 era characters the benefit of a decent story mode, and good performers, and they might actually shine and become worthwhile.
The more I think about a potential Frost move set the less cynical I feel about her inclusion. I wouldn't be surprised to see her get Sub's grab and stab moves from X, and maybe a little bit of Killer Frost/Captain Colds moves.
It would be also cool if Frost has some MMA moves considering she did cage fighting in the MKX comic before she joined in the Lin Kuei.
I'm so excited by the prospect of Frost that I even changed my avatar. I was really hoping for Frost to be in the next game after her cameo in MKX. She's been a low-key favourite of mine for years and I've longed to see her done properly in a modern NRS fighting game, so I'm incredibly excited.
I have no doubt that NRS will do everything they can to make Frost stand out from Sub Zero. Hell, go back and look at her bio kard video from Armageddon. No one understands the stigma Frost gets as a 'female Sub Zero' better than Midway/NRS. And even if she gets a couple of leftovers from Sub-Zero, she'll add more to the game than just gameplay. This is a very character-driven series, and Frost is the perfect addition to Sub Zero's character arc after making peace with Scorpion which is where we are now with 11. There's so much Frost can add to this game and it saddens me to see so many people whine and complain about her because they have it stuck in their head that she'll just be the exact same as she was THIRTEEN YEARS AGO back in Armageddon. That's crazy. That's like thinking Kano would be the exact same if this was his first appearance since MK1. Armageddon was barely a fighting game compared to MK11, so don't just assume Frost and all the other 3D era characters will be the same as they were back on the PS2.
Speaking of 3D era characters, possibly the best thing to come out of Frost's inclusion in this game is another 3D era character that isn't Kenshi. There is a MASSIVE source of untapped potential in the 3D era just waiting for NRS to revamp them and turn them into legitimate characters. Fujin, Kai, Reiko, Havik, Ashrah etc. Frost making it in and being received well opens the door for these other forgotten characters to be come back and be used by NRS instead of having the same MK Trilogy characters that have been in every game for the last 20 years.
Basically what I'm trying to say is, don't write off Frost just because you have bad memories of her from a decade ago. Wait for NRS to show you what they can do with her and go from there. I'll be heartbroken and forever angry with this fan base if NRS takes all the salty whining and complaining because Mileena and Reptile didn't get their tenth game appearance and shelve Frost for good. Just have faith in NRS.
I have no doubt that NRS will do everything they can to make Frost stand out from Sub Zero. Hell, go back and look at her bio kard video from Armageddon. No one understands the stigma Frost gets as a 'female Sub Zero' better than Midway/NRS. And even if she gets a couple of leftovers from Sub-Zero, she'll add more to the game than just gameplay. This is a very character-driven series, and Frost is the perfect addition to Sub Zero's character arc after making peace with Scorpion which is where we are now with 11. There's so much Frost can add to this game and it saddens me to see so many people whine and complain about her because they have it stuck in their head that she'll just be the exact same as she was THIRTEEN YEARS AGO back in Armageddon. That's crazy. That's like thinking Kano would be the exact same if this was his first appearance since MK1. Armageddon was barely a fighting game compared to MK11, so don't just assume Frost and all the other 3D era characters will be the same as they were back on the PS2.
Speaking of 3D era characters, possibly the best thing to come out of Frost's inclusion in this game is another 3D era character that isn't Kenshi. There is a MASSIVE source of untapped potential in the 3D era just waiting for NRS to revamp them and turn them into legitimate characters. Fujin, Kai, Reiko, Havik, Ashrah etc. Frost making it in and being received well opens the door for these other forgotten characters to be come back and be used by NRS instead of having the same MK Trilogy characters that have been in every game for the last 20 years.
Basically what I'm trying to say is, don't write off Frost just because you have bad memories of her from a decade ago. Wait for NRS to show you what they can do with her and go from there. I'll be heartbroken and forever angry with this fan base if NRS takes all the salty whining and complaining because Mileena and Reptile didn't get their tenth game appearance and shelve Frost for good. Just have faith in NRS.
You make a good point. In Street Fighter characters like Dudley or Makoto wouldn't be as iconic as they are now if it wasn't for Capcom branching off and diversifying the existing characters with the introduction of new ones, same applies for Yun and Yang.
Bad gameplay aside, there is a TON of storylore that was introduced in Deadly Alliance and Deception.
Deception the most in particular because the Adventure / Konquest mode painted a decent picture of the universe of the 5 different realms and their relationship with each other. While there WERE some pretty dumb characters without any decent background plot or move list to carry them namely Dairou, Darrius, and Hsu Hao.
There is a few characters with potential for growth. Frost in particular. For one she helps out the female representation in the roster. Also she never played or acted like Sub-Zero despite the superficial concept of her just being Female Sub-Zero. She could make for an interesting contrast for Sub-Zero's apprentice, much like how Takeda is somewhat in the same regard for Scorpion to a degree.
Also a more close-range grappler oriented character with has no ice ball or ground ice. And instead has grabs or throws or melee moves that cause her to freeze on contact would be a decent mix of her MMA background and Ice powers, which give her a play style that is completely different then Sub-Zero and remain relevant.
Can we all agree that there should be no bloody invasion nonsense, let alone a trophy for landing 1000 hits to an invasion boss (where the first 10 hits of each match don't even count!)?
We're basically agreeing here. My point was not to include every single big name that's missing. My original point was that having SO MANY of them missing was a red flag (to me) that the list may not be entirely accurate. I'm not expecting every single character I listed to be included. It was the lack of ALL of them that seemed odd.
I'm more concerned about the teabagging trophy... :(
The supposedly leaked ones in there seem reasonable though. I mean if Mokap was one of the characters in the leaked achievements, it might look suspect. But the ones there seem all like plausible picks NRS might make, even if not everyone likes certain ones.
Ah, I'm with you on that. A few more classic fighters would be ideal.
The ones I wanna see the most are Rain, Jade, Fujin, Kenshi and Kung Jin.
Because it's degrading? :P
I really hope this game doesn't have any Living Towers and Invasion stuff tied to online servers. Just have the game do it offline using RNG.
Well there is 25 of the base roster plus Shao Kahn which makes 26, Plus 6 DLC for a total of 31 and the random select box to make an even 32 boxes on the select screen.
More than enough character slots for a majority returning cast with some new guys like Geras.
Who knows, maybe Netherrealm will have another Kombat pass with another 5 or 6 characters and push the total up to 36 / 37.
I mean they did the same with MKX which also had two Kombat Passes.
More than enough character slots for a majority returning cast with some new guys like Geras.
Who knows, maybe Netherrealm will have another Kombat pass with another 5 or 6 characters and push the total up to 36 / 37.
I mean they did the same with MKX which also had two Kombat Passes.
Yeah, it's more about the ones missing. Fujin is the main example I've been using. He's a highly requested character that wasn't in MK9 or MKX. I can't imagine he's going to miss MK11 or even be regulated to DLC.
If people are going to do it, they're going to do it. More often than not people do it when it doesn't make a lot of sense. I'd rather not have the developers encouraging it though.
If there is anything I want in MK11. Is if Scorpion uses his Spear in against the opponent who is in a state that triggers a Brutality. I want Scorpion to get his "GET OUT OF HERE!" thing from the comic.
Speaking of Scorpion, I'm assuming the main playable versions of both him and Sub-Zero are the younger versions? Seems that way. Sub-Zero seems a lot younger and Scorpion is a spectre again :(
Hopefully, this doesn't mean that they'll backtrack on all the progress made in MKX. Seriously, if they reignite their feud I'll be incredibly disappointed. No one wants to go back to that.
Hopefully, this doesn't mean that they'll backtrack on all the progress made in MKX. Seriously, if they reignite their feud I'll be incredibly disappointed. No one wants to go back to that.
Holy shit Mortal Kombat finally gets a solid leitmotif after 25 years!!
Yes, but you also need to factor a potential 2nd Kombat Pass after the first one for an additional 5 to 6 characters, hence why I said 36 / 37.
As I said even MKX had two Kombat Passes, there is no guarantee the initial 6 DLC characters is final. We could get more. NRS has history with this.
So there's been some rumblings and seems like leak is definitely legit.
Also myself and a few others heard there's a couple surprises which if all end up being true redeems the roster 100%.
Also myself and a few others heard there's a couple surprises which if all end up being true redeems the roster 100%.
Roster was already great to me, so this makes me even more hype.
Yeah even though there's some weird inclusions, overall I'm pretty hyped. Plus like MKX I know I'm going to play nearly every character anyway lol.
I am generally leery about entirely new characters introduced to MK considering the PS2 era of Deception and Armageddon, but so far I'm pretty hyped about playing Geras, then again so far he's only new character revealed thus far. Kronika is apparently unplayable so they can go ham on making an appropriate boss.
The thing I find appealing with the time travel stuff though is that this allows NRS to be unrestricted with the costume inclusions. pre-time rewind original Sub-Zero is a possibility for example.
Also if you consider Carl Weathers Jax which had a unique voice actor specifically for that costume in MKX. This means they could have an Original Bi Han Sub-Zero costume with dialogue exclusively for that costume.
Just think of the possibilities folks.
The thing I find appealing with the time travel stuff though is that this allows NRS to be unrestricted with the costume inclusions. pre-time rewind original Sub-Zero is a possibility for example.
Also if you consider Carl Weathers Jax which had a unique voice actor specifically for that costume in MKX. This means they could have an Original Bi Han Sub-Zero costume with dialogue exclusively for that costume.
Just think of the possibilities folks.
Has there been any more talk of the rumored Adventure Mode from MK Shaolin Monks being in the game? It was part of the first "leaks" that came out late last year. Im assuming it was fake since it doesnt look like they got the story mode stuff right, or atleast didnt know about the time aspect.
And the surprises would be other characters? Launch characters or DLC? Don't be stingy with the deets mang!
Yeah, I'm definitely curious about the other new characters. Geras is one of the coolest designed characters that they've added in awhile, so I'm excited to see what else they have.
I'm also curious to see the designs of returning characters, since characters seem to be reworked quite a bit.
I'm also curious to see the designs of returning characters, since characters seem to be reworked quite a bit.
Ooh valid point.
That's the first thing I noticed about him in 11, no more awesome command grab.
Yeah. He's a great addition. One of the best they've had since Kenshi and Asrah.
I have a feeling Geras will be like Shinnok, a way for normal players to test out those cool looking powers in a balance way, and she'll be like Corrupted Shinnok with super cheap moves. I can imagine her not only hitting hard but maybe also have each hit remove 5 seconds off the timer, effectively pushing for forced time out wins after long combos.
With The Journey Begins graphics...
:D
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