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Hokahey

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,288
Hi Era friends,

As a few of you know, I am a longtime licensed mortgage Loan Officer. Over the years (here and at the site that will not be named) I have had the pleasure of coaching some of you regarding the tangled web of credit and home financing. It is always extremely fulfilling to me to have those advice opportunities, especially for the folks here. When someone needs help, you are some of the best out there, so this is my little way of trying to contribute.

Point being, this community has done so much for so many, that I have long considered making a thread like this to try and give back a little. With it being the slow season in the industry, I finally decided to take some time to write something up. This is intended to simplify something that is often intimidating for people, and to provide you insider pro-tips related to mortgages. Put simply, these are the things I tell my friends and family.

This will be long, but I want to make this comprehensive. If you plan to obtain financing to buy a home, start with a thorough review of the details below and you will be far more educated and in a position to both negotiate and not be taken advantage of. For the sake of not making this OP too ridiculously long, I will focus almost exclusively on new first mortgages, mostly ignoring mortgage refinances. If there is demand, I can always do a write up on those as well.

I will break this in to three sections – Basics, Pro-Tips, and Miscellaneous. If you already understand the basics, I would skip to sections II and III. That's where the good stuff is.


I. The 7 Basics of Mortgages

  1. What is a mortgage?

    A mortgage is a financial instrument utilized to obtain a loan to purchase a home. Put simply, houses (and condos, co-ops etc) cost more money than most people have laying around. So money is borrowed from a lender to pay for the home, and then paid back over a period of time to the lender. Most often, this pay-back period of time is 15 or 30 years, with a payment due each month on the 1st.

  2. How do I obtain a mortgage?

    A mortgage is obtained by applying for financing through a bank or other lending institution. The application is usually a meeting/phone call between the applicant and a licensed Loan Officer. The application process involves providing all of your personal details (Name/Address/Employment History/DOB/SSN/Income/Assets), agreeing to a credit check, and providing details on your desired purchase. The initial application typically results in a decline, or a pre-approval. This step is typically done prior to house shopping, and most realtors expect you to be pre-approved before they show you a home.

  3. What determines if I am declined or pre-approved?

    There are two major components to being approved for a mortgage: Credit score, and Debt to Income Ratio (or DTI). There are many other smaller factors, but if you are solid in these, you are typically solid in all. I will touch on the ins and outs of credit scores and DTI requirements in the Pro-Tips section.

  4. What mortgage products are available?

    This is where things start to get complicated, and where having a TRUSTED loan officer is critical. There are many mortgage products, but allow me to simplify as much as possible. Essentially, there are two mortgage types that make up the vast majority of what people utilize. Fixed rate mortgages, and adjustable rate mortgages (commonly known as ARMs). A fixed rate mortgage has an interest rate fixed for the life of the loan, so the payment never changes. These are usually 15 or 30 year loans, with 30 year loans being the standard. An adjustable rate mortgage has periods of adjustment over time, but starts with a lower rate than a fixed rate. Adjustable Rate Mortgages are usually fixed for 3-10 years (depending on product), and then adjust annually, up or flat, depending on the market.

  5. Are there other costs involved beyond making a monthly payment?

    Yes. These are called "Closing Costs," and vary depending on which institution you are working with. These can range from several hundred to several thousand dollars, all due when you close on the loan. Some lenders will offer you credits off of these fees, or on a mortgage refinance, allow you to finance the costs in to the loan total. This is absolutely something you should NEGOTIATE. You are also typically required to bring in money at loan closing as a deposit for your taxes and insurance. More obviously, you also typically have to have a down payment money, as in most scenarios, 100% financing is not available.

  6. How much money is needed for a down payment?

    This can vary widely depending on the loan program, or if you qualify for special financing due to being a veteran or physician. The rule of thumb for many is to put down 20% of the home price, but this is NOT typically required. However, by putting down 20% you avoid having an extra monthly charge called Private Mortgage Insurance (or PMI) added to your monthly payment. This extra charge is usually .5% to 1% of your loan total. This exists to protect the lender against you defaulting on your loan. There are programs that exist that allow you to put as little as 3.5% down, and with some specialty products, little or nothing at all. This depends on your state and products available by the institution you are obtaining your mortgage through. But most often, 3.5% is the required minimum.

  7. How long does it take to obtain a mortgage, and what is involved?

    After the initial application, you will then be required to submit paperwork to the lending institution to verify the data you have provided them. Most full loan approvals take around 30 days, which is the standard time written in to most real estate contracts. During that time period you will submit documents like paystubs and W2s to prove your income, and bank statements to provide your down payment is coming from a legitimate source. It is also typical that you will need to provide "Letters of Explanation" to explain items like recent credit inquiries, late payments, random addresses associated with you on your credit report, etc. All of these documents are reviewed by a mortgage underwriter, who may then ask for additional documents to better clarify certain scenarios. After all documentation is approved and no further questions exist, you are then typically "clear to close" on your loan.
II. The 7 Mortgage Pro-Tips

  1. Where the hell do I start the process?

    The easiest way for me to answer this is with a **disclaimer** opinion - NOT A BANK. Do not rely on a Wells Fargo, Bank of America, Citi, or even your local bank for your mortgage needs. Instead, call a local mortgage broker or direct lender. Google is your friend. Or ask around for recommendations. Why you may ask? Banks are big, slow and have tighter credit policy due to regulations. As a result, the process can be excruciatingly slow, with deadlines often missed. And because they are more heavily regulated than a direct lender, their underwriting guidelines are much tighter. Unless you fit a very specific mold, you can be declined more easily. They also offer fewer mortgage products and options. Ask any real estate agent. They cringe when their buyer is using a bank for their loan because they know the nightmare that often lies ahead. I spent almost a decade as a Loan Officer at a big bank, and now work for a Direct Lender. I speak from experience. I also cannot stress enough how important it is to find someone your trust. If they sound super "sales-ey", like they don't know mortgages as well as you do after reading this thread, and you cannot call them on their cell phone day or night, don't work with them. A good loan officer is a mortgage nerd, works for an institution that is small enough to have a wide variety of options for you, and makes themselves available as needed instead of just during office hours.

  2. Do I really need a real estate agent?

    One is not usually required. but I always say YES. For one, they understand the ins and out of the home buying process. Need some repairs negotiated in? Need the seller to pay your closing costs? Let a realtor use their expertise to negotiate on your behalf. And secondly, you don't pay them a dime. Their costs are paid for by the seller of the home.

  3. What credit score is needed to buy a home, and how do I know where I stand?

    This can get convoluted, and can depend on the lending institution, but for the most part you need to have a middle FICO score of 580 or above. And you really should know your middle FICO scorer before picking up the phone and calling a lender. So what is a middle FICO score? Well, there are three credit bureaus, and mortgage lenders use the middle score of the three to determine your qualifying score. Also important to know is that FICO is a formula used to calculate your score that very few other entities utilize outside of mortgage lenders. It can also be difficult to attain your true FICO score. In today's world, many people utilize an app like Credit Karma to determine their credit score. And while it can be a very useful tool, it provides you a score that is determined using a different formula than FICO. In my experience, Credit Karma is 30-40 points HIGHER than your true FICO, leaving many people to believe they are better qualified for a mortgage than they truly are. The better way to determine your FICO is through your credit card holder. Many now offer a free credit score every month. This score is almost always your FICO. If you do not have a card that offers this service, you can go to https://www.creditscorecard.com/registration.This is a service provided free of charge by Discover card, and does not require you to do business with them or pay a fee. I am sure they will use your info for marketing or even sell it, but I applaud their opening up this information to the general public with no obligation.

  4. What Debt to Income Ratio (DTI) is required to qualify and how is this figure calculated?

    Put simply, DTI is your (pre-tax) gross monthly income measured against your monthly credit obligations. The equation is calculated by totaling up the monthly obligations on your credit report (minimum credit card payments, auto loans payment, student loan payments, etc), adding in your proposed mortgage payment, and dividing that number by your monthly income. Debt/Income. For example: $300 car payment + $100 minimum credit card payments + $1,000 proposed housing payment = $1,400, divided by gross monthly income of $4,000 = DTI of 35% (1,400/4,000). YOUR TOTAL BALANCES ARE IRRELEVANT, as are your other monthly bills (groceries, utilities, etc) If the payment is not on your credit report, it is irrelevant. Max allowable Debt to Income is usually in the 45% range, but some programs allow for as high as 55%+. This depends on the lending institution and programs available.

  5. Do I really need a 20% down payment ?

    This was touched on in Section I. Question #6 above, but more often than not, no. Unless you are buying an investment property or taking out a mortgage over $421K, 20K down is rarely required, and is not always a good idea. You should however have a minimum down payment of 3.5%. So when is 20% down not a good idea? Well, let's say you only have 15% down. Sometimes, you can get a lower interest rate at 15% down instead of 20% down. It seems counter intuitive, but it's true. Yes, 20% down avoids the PMI discussed earlier, but a lower rate can mean a lesser payment, even WITH PMI involved. Additionally, will putting down 20% exhaust your reserves? Where will you get the money for furniture or renovations? It can be cheaper to finance that other 5% through your mortgage than it is to put that money on a credit card or store financing. This is where you need a Loan Officer that knows their stuff and can help you weigh all of your options.

  6. A 30 year fixed rate mortgage is always the way to go, right?

    It is certainly the most popular mortgage product, but not always the best. What if you are only planning to live in the property for 3 years? Why would you take out a 30 year fixed at 4% interest, instead of a 5 year ARM at 3%? You will move before your rate begins to adjust after 5 years! Additionally, what if you plan to retire in 20 years? You don't want another 10 years of mortgage payments after retirement, do you? Believe it or not, you can actually take out a mortgage with almost any repayment period you desire. Typically, 10 years is minimum, but you can customize your repayment period. Want a 27 year loan instead of 30? How about a 12 year instead of 15? Again – talk to a trusted loan officer that can help you weigh your options. Don't blindly accept a 30 year fixed rate mortgage just because it's a lower monthly payment.

  7. Okay, so I'm ready to pull the trigger on getting a mortgage. How do I get the best deal?

    This is the big one. First and foremost, know where you stand. If you want to do this yourself, obtain your credit score by utilizing the methods outlined in Section II. Question # 3 above. The higher the score, the better. But if your FICO is below 580, you probably have some negative reporting data you need to work on first. Get your score up a bit by paying off those medical collections, making your payments on time, etc. Next, have a good idea on your DTI (Section II. Question #4). You want to be below 45%, and if not, perhaps pay something off to lower your monthly obligations. Again, there are programs that allow for higher than 45% DTI, but this is a good rule of thumb. All of that said, sometimes it's a good idea to simply allow a trusted Loan Officer to pull your credit and analyze your income, and then provide you a TRUE picture. Once you know exactly where you stand, you can begin to negotiate. You only need this done by one lender to call around and ask for the best deal. No one HAS to pull your credit to give you a rate and cost estimate. You simply say, "I am calling for a rate and price quote. I can tell you my credit score, house price, down payment amount, and I know my DTI is X%." Comparison shop. Ask for lowest rate and lowest closing cost they can offer, and then pick the best option. Ultimately, if you do decide to go with someone other than who initially pulled your credit, the additional credit pull will not count against you if it is within 30 days of the original pull. The credit bureaus recognize that you are shopping rates.


III. Miscellaneous Pro-Tips

  1. Assets

    In order to qualify for your mortgage, you will have to provide 2 months bank statements to show where your down payment is coming from. If there are large, non-payroll deposits showing on those statements, the mortgage underwriter will ask you to provide proof of source. Maybe this is relatively easy because the deposit is from stock you liquidated, but you will still have to show a paper trail proving that. What a pain. Or, maybe you had the money stuffed in your mattress because you don't trust banks and cannot prove it's source. This is a problem. Point being, do your best to "season" that down payment money for 2 months and turn in easy to read bank statements that will not require a lot of additional documentation.

  2. Income

    Are you a W2 employee? Great. Your application is usually pretty straight forward. Self-Employed? Well, hopefully you are schedule C. If not, prepare for a LOT of explaining and paperwork. Even if you are schedule C, your qualifying income is what you report as NET PROFIT AFTER EXPENSES. That is great that your tax guy helps you make your 1 million dollar a year income look like 30K, but that 30K is now your qualifying income. Thems the rules.


    My final piece of advice here is really re-iterating what I have said above many times – work with someone you trust, that is readily available to you, and that you can negotiate with. A product like Rocket Mortgage is ok if you have a cookie cutter credit/income scenario and want a non negotiated, cookie cutter mortgage - but I would steer clear. Look at knowing a good loan officer like knowing a good car mechanic. You want someone you trust to look under the hood, that you can have an actual conversation with, and be able to call them as needed if any problems arise.

    Well Era, those are the basics and then some, without getting TOO FAR in to the weeds or down the rabbit hole. This already took almost 3 hours to type! I really hope that some of you can find this information helpful.

    That said, please reply or message me with any questions you might have. I will do my best to check in here regularly to answer them.
 
Oct 30, 2017
3,324
Great thread, and amazing OP. My wife and I bought our forever home about 2 years ago and had to learn a lot of this on our own. You've included some of the gotcha's in here and other great information for people to plan for and make a purchase.

Another tip : Vehicle loans/payments will typically not count towards your DTL ratio if there are ~<8 months left. If you want to qualify for more house, don't buy when you're at the beginning or the end of a loan. Instead, time it for the end of the loan and you may qualify for a significant amount more.
 
OP
OP
Hokahey

Hokahey

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,288
Great thread, and amazing OP. My wife and I bought our forever home about 2 years ago and had to learn a lot of this on our own. You've included some of the gotcha's in here and other great information for people to plan for and make a purchase.

Thanks so much! Nice to see feedback from someone that recently went through the gauntlet.
 
Oct 30, 2017
3,324
I thought buying a car was the most painful process in the world until I bought our first house.
Ain't this the truth. We did our home loan about as much digitally as possible, and even then facilitating digital signatures back and forth with both the lender and escrow companies was like a second job. And then come signing day, still had bout 40 pages to physically sign!

All worth it though

Unfortunately that's typical feedback for this industry. It really does matter though who your LO and lender are. Can I ask what institution or type of institution you worked with? Bank? Broker?

I'll bite, mine was broker. However they kicked ass and proxied just about everything a broker could to escrow and the lender etc.. I felt like between my broker and my agents they did as close to a perfect job as possible. Grade A professionalism, but that doesn't negate those juicy signatures and numbers everwhere! lol

For instance ... buying a house is like ...

bcf.png
 
Oct 30, 2017
15,278
I have a 30 year fixed mortgage with my wife and am currently 4 years into it. Currently paying roughly $700/month for a 2-story 1949 brick. Got a great deal on it in a rural area. Lots of space for the 2 of us.

I will say my experience buying the house was out of the ordinary. For one, I started the process while still in graduate school and had a difficult time with the underwriter due to not having started my job yet. I had a great lending agent who worked with the underwriter, but it was a really difficult and draining process. My lending agent literally cried multiple times because of how difficult this underwriter was. From offer to closing took about 5 months.
 

ElectricBlanketFire

What year is this?
Member
Oct 25, 2017
31,802
Unfortunately that's typical feedback for this industry. It really does matter though who your LO and lender are. Can I ask what institution or type of institution you worked with? Bank? Broker?
It was through Chase.

The person we were working with, who did a terrible job, was fired 3/4 of the way through the process.

The person who replaced her wasn't much better. We weren't 100% sure we were getting the home until literally an hour before we closed (no issues on our part in terms of credit, payment or necessary steps like home inspection, etc...). That could be the norm as I've only purchased one home, but I can't imagine it being more frustrating.
 

Quixzlizx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,591
Just want to say that I had a (relatively) painless experience getting a mortgage through a credit union. I guess it helped that I was applying for one beneath my means.

Got a 15-year fixed for 2.5% last year, right as rates were starting to tick up again.
 
OP
OP
Hokahey

Hokahey

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,288
It was through Chase.

The person we were working with, who did a terrible job, was fired 3/4 of the way through the process.

The person who replaced her wasn't much better. We weren't 100% sure we were getting the home until literally an hour before we closed (no issues on our part in terms of credit, payment or necessary steps like home inspection, etc...). That could be the norm as I've only purchased one home, but I can't imagine it being more frustrating.

I spent almost 10 years at Citibank, and what you described is pretty typical for big banks. Unfortunately, most people think that calling a large institution is the way to go.
 

Keyboard

Guest
Don't own a home, but I've read a lot about mortgages in case I ever do.

What's the preferred process of refinancing a mortgage for renewing tax deductible interest? Same as obtaining a mortgage from OP?

Aren't mortgage brokers middlemen in the process?
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Darryl M R

The Spectacular PlayStation-Man
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,716
I'm probably 4 or 5 years out from buying my first home/and I have been a renter of condos that I am interested in owning.

If pre-approved for a mortgage and I view a condo I want to own, how long is the process of confirming the purchase? Since I live in a big city most for sale homes do not stay on the market for too long.
 
OP
OP
Hokahey

Hokahey

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,288
Ain't this the truth. We did our home loan about as much digitally as possible, and even then facilitating digital signatures back and forth with both the lender and escrow companies was like a second job. And then come signing day, still had bout 40 pages to physically sign!

All worth it though



I'll bite, mine was broker. However they kicked ass and proxied just about everything a broker could to escrow and the lender etc.. I felt like between my broker and my agents they did as close to a perfect job as possible. Grade A professionalism, but that doesn't negate those juicy signatures and numbers everwhere! lol

For instance ... buying a house is like ...

bcf.png


LOL

It can be a lot to digest, but not surprised to hear that your broker did a great job. Brokers and direct lenders are always your best bet.
 

Nothing Loud

Literally Cinderella
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,964
I just spent a month learning everything in the OP and he is 100% correct and said it better than I could. Thank God I have an incredible mortgage broker that literally will talk to me day or night because she is obsessed with mortgages. But I'm not buying the house anymore (my parents house) because even though I can heavily reduce the closing costs and its projected to gain good equity in the next few years, the PMI and mortgage is too high, plus I only plan to live in the house for 3 years and I wouldn't make back the investment while I live in it.
 

ElectricBlanketFire

What year is this?
Member
Oct 25, 2017
31,802
I spent almost 10 years at Citibank, and what you described is pretty typical for big banks. Unfortunately, most people think that calling a large institution is the way to go.
Oh for sure. We would do things differently now. We didn't know any better and thought our realtor had our best interests in mind.

We were just pups.
 
OP
OP
Hokahey

Hokahey

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,288
Don't own a home, but I've read a lot about mortgages in case I ever do.

What's the preferred process of refinancing a mortgage for renewing tax deductible interest? Same as obtaining a mortgage from OP?

Yes, very similar. There are some nuances involved with closing costs and escrows, but it's typically almost 99% the same as obtaining a new loan. Everything is looked at from scratch.
 

Irnbru

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
2,127
Seattle
18 years left on 120k w/ 3.2% interest ain't so bad. If you're in Seattle Homestreet bank took good care of me
 

Steve9842017

Member
Nov 7, 2017
414
We went with a mortgage broker and she was just extremely non-communicative and pretty unprofessional. The last week or so was especially infuriating as the title company was pending so much from her and she just straight up wouldn't respond in time or would send relevant info to an incorrect email address, and would get defensive/excuse-driven if called out on it.

Thankfully our agent and title company points-of-contact were awesome. But still, ended up being way more stressful than it should have been.
 
OP
OP
Hokahey

Hokahey

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,288
I'm probably 4 or 5 years out from buying my first home/and I have been a renter of condos that I am interested in owning.

If pre-approved for a mortgage and I view a condo I want to own, how long is the process of confirming the purchase? Since I live in a big city most for sale homes do not stay on the market for too long.

It's typically a 30 day window, but some lenders can move very quickly. I've closed in 2-3 weeks before. Also, be careful with condos. Make sure to ask the HOA if they are Fannie/Freddie approved, or make your lender do that work for you.
 
OP
OP
Hokahey

Hokahey

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,288
I just spent a month learning everything in the OP and he is 100% correct and said it better than I could. Thank God I have an incredible mortgage broker that literally will talk to me day or night because she is obsessed with mortgages. But I'm not buying the house anymore (my parents house) because even though I can heavily reduce the closing costs and its projected to gain good equity in the next few years, the PMI and mortgage is too high, plus I only plan to live in the house for 3 years and I wouldn't make back the investment while I live in it.

Thanks! I worked hard on it! It makes me happy to see positive feedback. I really hope it can help people.
 
OP
OP
Hokahey

Hokahey

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,288
We went with a mortgage broker and she was just extremely non-communicative and pretty unprofessional. The last week or so was especially infuriating as the title company was pending so much from her and she just straight up wouldn't respond in time or would send relevant info to an incorrect email address, and would get defensive/excuse-driven if called out on it.

Thankfully our agent and title company points-of-contact were awesome. But still, ended up being way more stressful than it should have been.

That stinks. It's always a good idea to ask around to friend/family, OR, and maybe I should have put this in the OP - Ask your realtor. They usually have a referral partner they trust.
 

Darryl M R

The Spectacular PlayStation-Man
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,716
It's typically a 30 day window, but some lenders can move very quickly. I've closed in 2-3 weeks before. Also, be careful with condos. Make sure to ask the HOA if they are Fannie/Freddie approved, or make your lender do that work for you.
It's a 30 day window from when I start the process of wanting to get the condo/house or when the condo/house goes on the market?

I have the concern that despite me wanting to finalize the process there could be another individual further in the process than I am.

Can you explain the difference between Fannie/Freddie approved ones and those that are not?
 

Mashing

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,941
Yeah, my mortgage through my credit union was painless as well (I think this differs thank banks because at a CU you are basically a stockholder). I put down 15% and after 5 years I was able to remove the PMI. I'd be interested in what you think about refinancing as mortgage loan as well.
 

Astronut325

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,948
Los Angeles, CA
You should however have a minimum down payment of 3.5%. So when is 20% down not a good idea? Well, let's say you only have 15% down. Sometimes, you can get a lower interest rate at 15% down instead of 20% down. It seems counter intuitive, but it's true. Yes, 20% down avoids the PMI discussed earlier, but a lower rate can mean a lesser payment, even WITH PMI involved
I shopped for mortgages for years before getting my first home in 2016. I have never seen this.
 
OP
OP
Hokahey

Hokahey

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,288
It's a 30 day window from when I start the process of wanting to get the condo/house or when the condo/house goes on the market?

I have the concern that despite me wanting to finalize the process there could be another individual further in the process than I am.

Can you explain the difference between Fannie/Freddie approved ones and those that are not?

Hopefully I can clarify:

1st and foremost, get a mortgage pre-approval. This can usually be issued be issued same day as your application, and is outside of your closing window.

Once your offer is accepted on a property, and you are under contract, that is when you are usually looking at a 30 day close.

If you want to be a step ahead of your competition, ask your lender for a "full doc" pre-approval. That will mean that an underwriter has already reviewed your documentation, instead of the Loan Officer running numbers and pre-approving you pending your documents. That will tell the sellers and their agent that you are essentially guaranteed to get the loan and they should move forward with you.

Does that help?

Condos can be ineligible for "normal" Fannie/Freddie financing for a variety of reasons. Too many renters, one person owning too many units, pending lawsuits, etc. When this occurs, it can be more difficult to get a mortgage for that property.
 
OP
OP
Hokahey

Hokahey

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,288
I shopped for mortgages for years before getting my first home in 2016. I have never seen this.

Because most Loan Officers aren't extremely well versed or experienced enough in the nuances, or just tell people what they want to hear.

Throughout my career I have had opportunities to offer a client a lower rate at 19% down, and then drop their MI when they achieve the full 20% equity shortly thereafter.
 

ryul2

Banned
Nov 5, 2017
552
Thanks OP, the timing of this thread couldn't have come at a better time(at least for me) since I started to look around and see what I can get qualified for. I've already contacted couple of the big banks, but i'll also do some reasearch and contact a couple of lenders in my area and see what I can qualify for through them as well.
 
OP
OP
Hokahey

Hokahey

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,288
Yeah, my mortgage through my credit union was painless as well (I think this differs thank banks because at a CU you are basically a stockholder). I put down 15% and after 5 years I was able to remove the PMI. I'd be interested in what you think about refinancing as mortgage loan as well.

That really depends on your current rate, remaining term, etc. Feel free to shoot me a PM.
 

TerminusFox

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,851
In the process already of saving enough money where I'll be able to purchase a home outright.

Five-Seven years!

*fingers crossed*
 
OP
OP
Hokahey

Hokahey

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,288
Thanks OP, the timing of this thread couldn't have come at a better time(at least for me) since I started to look around and see what I can get qualified for. I've already contacted couple of the big banks, but i'll also do some reasearch and contact a couple of lenders in my area and see what I can qualify for through them as well.

You are very welcome. Out of curiosity, what part of the country are you looking to buy in?
 

Darknight

"I'd buy that for a dollar!"
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,765
One tip I found out was look to see if having an account and paying your mortgage directly with your lender can offer an incentive. We got an additional 1% cash back from opening an account with the lender and paying our monthly through them.
 

arglebargle

Member
Oct 26, 2017
971
im almost a year into my first mortgage. my wife and i started out by working with a correspondent lender, but they were terrible through the documentation process. they couldn't accurately calculate our assets (we had to have some level of reserves after the down payment; i assume thats standard) using the balances and ratios (retirement and stock accounts dont count 100% because of risk and taxes) they laid out so i ended up having to make a spreadsheet for them. we also found out midway through that process that chase had a lower rate on our product (15% down, jumbo) and location so we changed horses. chase was actually much better, so i guess the actual people involved matter as much as the institution. they were far more professional and competent. we were also working with private banking/high loan value people so maybe they are better than average.

two topics:

can you talk a little bit about recasting a mortgage? is doing so common? do most loans allow unlimited or frequent recasting?

are existing mortgages grandfathered in for the higher mortgage interest deduction? how should we think about the decision on whether to refinance given that? just math, i guess, or are there other considerations?
 
OP
OP
Hokahey

Hokahey

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,288
Let me add, while this is in no way a solicitation of service, I am licensed in the state of Missouri and have partners in all 50 states.

I am happy to help anyone here completely unofficially or officially.

And please, shoot me a PM with ANY question about specifics. Assume nothing when it comes to getting a mortgage.
 

OnionPowder

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,323
Orlando, FL
Just bought my first house in August and I've worked a mortgage company for over 7 years now. I love my house so much.

We're lucky because our lender was our employer and we got everything done super quick. We found a house online and we moved in within 3 weeks after that.
 

Violence Jack

Drive-in Mutant
Member
Oct 25, 2017
41,614
Subscribed. That you so much for this.

We're actually about to start home shopping in the metro Denver area within the next month. Neither one of us has anything to worry about in regards to credit scores, and we have enough to put 3.5-5% on a down payment. My wife wanted to go with USAA to start the mortgage talks, but she's open to seeking a direct lender as well.

As far as closing costs, those are somewhat unknown to me. What typically determines the cost, and would a hot housing market in your area determine how effective negotiation will be?
Also, my wife heard something about lenders looking to loan to those who have an established career, and do not recommend looking for another job while seeking a mortgage. Any truth to that?
 
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Hokahey

Hokahey

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,288
im almost a year into my first mortgage. my wife and i started out by working with a correspondent lender, but they were terrible through the documentation process. they couldn't accurately calculate our assets (we had to have some level of reserves after the down payment; i assume thats standard) using the balances and ratios (retirement and stock accounts dont count 100% because of risk and taxes) they laid out so i ended up having to make a spreadsheet for them. we also found out midway through that process that chase had a lower rate on our product (15% down, jumbo) and location so we changed horses. chase was actually much better, so i guess the actual people involved matter as much as the institution. they were far more professional and competent. we were also working with private banking/high loan value people so maybe they are better than average.

Don't get me wrong. There are some very good people at big banks. I'd like to think I used to be one of them. But in my experience, on the average, banks are your worst opportunity to get the best service.

can you talk a little bit about recasting a mortgage? is doing so common? do most loans allow unlimited or frequent recasting?

Wow, great question! This can highly depend on who is servicing your loan, which is not always who the initial lender was. I would say that most servicers do allow a recast, and often for free assuming you are inputting a minimum dollar amount (often 5-10K). They usually allow this to occur once a year. But again, I am giving you a very general answer based on how a lot of places do this. It completely depends on your servicer.

are existing mortgages grandfathered in for the higher mortgage interest deduction? how should we think about the decision on whether to refinance given that? just math, i guess, or are there other considerations?

Another great question. I have not heard anything about existing mortgages being grandfathered in, so I am assuming nothing like that is happening. And yes, it's really just math unless you have specific life goals that you are hoping a refi can help with (cash-out, shorter term, etc).
 

ryul2

Banned
Nov 5, 2017
552
You are very welcome. Out of curiosity, what part of the country are you looking to buy in?

seattle area (lol)

I'll most likely have to settle for something a bit farther since the price of homes here is ridiculous expensive. I want to say mostly due to Amazon employees but i'd also say since people are moving here in droves.
 
OP
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Hokahey

Hokahey

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,288
Subscribed. That you so much for this.

We're actually about to start home shopping within the next month. Neither one of us has anything to worry about in regards to credit scores, and we have enough to put 3.5-5% on a down payment. My wife wanted to go with USAA to start the mortgage talks, but she's open to seeking a direct lender as well.

USAA, in my experience, has higher rates than most institutions, but sometimes offer cash back incentives that 99% of places don't offer. From the numbers I have seen however, the cash back incentives do not ultimately offer a better deal than a lower rate when extrapolated over 6-7 years.

As far as closing costs, those are somewhat unknown to me. What typically determines the cost, and would a hot housing market in your area determine how effective negotiation will be?

MOST places are pretty competitive with one another. You are usually looking at 1k-1,500, including an appraisal, underwriting fee, application fee, etc, Housing market has no impact on what the lender would charge here. All you can really do is shop around - ask for their lowest rate and lowest closing cost quote. Get exact numbers.

Also, my wife heard something about lenders looking to loan to those who have an established career, and do not recommend looking for another job while seeking a mortgage. Any truth to that?

Somewhat true, but mostly not. This is pretty circumstantial. If she's a full-time W2 employee, it doesn't really matter if she changes jobs so long as she has 30 days of paystubs. But this can vary by lender and program.[/quote][/quote]
 

Keyboard

Guest
Lots of bad info in there (brokers are more expensive than banks?? wat), but I am all for getting a variety of opinions and views.
Not bad info if there's a possibility they can be more expensive.

Not good faith for shutting down discussion from a respectable site.
 
OP
OP
Hokahey

Hokahey

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,288
Not bad info if there's a possibility they can be more expensive.

Not good faith for shutting down discussion from a respectable site.

Odd response. Of course there's a possibility, but they're stating that what is most often not the case is. And I said I'm all about getting a variety of opinions. Not sure how that's shutting anything down or not good faith.
 

THErest

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,091
I've had my first home just over a year. Let me tell you how my broker deceptively screwed me/allowed me to remain ignorant/misled me in order to chalk up that sale:

Florida has a homestead exemption. Pretty much, you get $50000 exempted from the assessed value of your home for the purposes of property taxes and they cannot reassess and raise the value more than 3% annually. All you have to do is actually live in the house (so don't rent it out), and apply for the exemption. Which I promptly did after buying the house.

See, when my wife and I sat down with the broker, the three of us calculated an estimate of the monthly mortgage bill, because I was still a little unsure of the whole thing. I was not too pleased with the estimated monthly payment. Like, I could do it, but I would have rather kept renting than paid so much more per month. Maybe if it were just a little less...

Oh no, said the broker. The current owners don't have the homestead exemption for whatever reason. So, this will go down next year after you get your exemption. You. Will. Pay. Less. Next. Year.

Okay, I'm convinced, let's do this.

Now it's into our second calendar year with the house. What this lovely lady 'forgot' to mention was that (for one, I'm pretty sure the owners were homesteaded, but regardless) the county can reassess the value of the home since it was transferring ownership. Meaning they weren't bound by the homestead exemption limits between owners. Meaning they could just add $80000 to the assessed value and wipe out any savings that we were assured to get by our broker.

So the bill has gone up.

Now I know I might have figured out that wrinkle myself. But I trusted this person when she said our payment would go down because the exemption would lower our taxes. She withheld information, as far as I am concerned.

So watch out. Do your own research.
 

arglebargle

Member
Oct 26, 2017
971
Don't get me wrong. There are some very good people at big banks. I'd like to think I used to be one of them. But in my experience, on the average, banks are your worst opportunity to get the best service.



Wow, great question! This can highly depend on who is servicing your loan, which is not always who the initial lender was. I would say that most servicers do allow a recast, and often for free assuming you are inputting a minimum dollar amount (often 5-10K). They usually allow this to occur once a year. But again, I am giving you a very general answer based on how a lot of places do this. It completely depends on your servicer.



Another great question. I have not heard anything about existing mortgages being grandfathered in, so I am assuming nothing like that is happening. And yes, it's really just math unless you have specific life goals that you are hoping a refi can help with (cash-out, shorter term, etc).


thanks for creating the thread by the way. wish i had it last year. researching a mortgage felt similar buying a diamond engagement ring: learn a ton about a specific subject to avoid getting ripped off, only to immediately forget everything after the process was over.

i think it would be worth covering escrows in a bit more detail. i remember when i first tried to get a mortgage, on a house we didnt end up buying, months before we found the house we did buy, how much cash we needed above and beyond the down payment. that was an education. closing costs werent crazy, but escrows increased the cash i needed on hand by quite a bit: i think it was like 9 months of taxes (which is material in CT) and a year of homeowners insurance. then they suggested i pay for the first year of homeowners insurance on top of that, which ultimately i didnt do.

as you may be able to tell, we stretched a bit on the initial down payment and closing, partially because our income covered the monthly payments with room to spare.
 

Zach

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,711
This is a nice thread. Good job, Hokahey

Can you tell me if I should give my mortgage company the time of day on something? Here's my rough sitch:

- Bought a house in '09 (30-year fixed)
- I was young and had whatever credit; my FICO is now 800+
- I've been planning to refinance next year to get a better rate (20-year fixed as not to reset the clock)

Now my current mortgage company has been emailing about their "rate reduction program."

- Little to no out-of-pocket closing costs!
- No appraisal or income docs required!
- All fixed rates and no hidden surprises!

Or will this not be great? I'm not interested in a quick buck if there's a better money-save to be had by doing a true refinance through a local credit union or whatevz down the road. Or is this totally something I should consider if I'm just looking to lower my rate now that my credit score, etc. is solid?

Thanks and no prob if this is too strange to advise on. :D
 
OP
OP
Hokahey

Hokahey

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,288
This is a nice thread. Good job, Hokahey

Can you tell me if I should give my mortgage company the time of day on something? Here's my rough sitch:

- Bought a house in '09 (30-year fixed)
- I was young and had whatever credit; my FICO is now 800+
- I've been planning to refinance next year to get a better rate (20-year fixed as not to reset the clock)

Now my current mortgage company has been emailing about their "rate reduction program."

- Little to no out-of-pocket closing costs!
- No appraisal or income docs required!
- All fixed rates and no hidden surprises!

Or will this not be great? I'm not interested in a quick buck if there's a better money-save to be had by doing a true refinance through a local credit union or whatevz down the road. Or is this totally something I should consider if I'm just looking to lower my rate now that my credit score, etc. is solid?

Thanks and no prob if this is too strange to advise on. :D

There are a lot of clues here that tell me that what they are likely offering is a HARP loan, which is actually a wonderful program. It's funny, because I have had a hard time selling those in my career because they seem too good to be true. Those came about as a result of Obama administration legislation. Often times they reduce your rate and term just as stated, with no closing cost and minimal paperwork. I can't guarantee that this is what they are offering though without having more detail. If you would like, ask them if it is a HARP refinance and then let me know. Also, see what interest rate they are offering you. I really suspect though that this is an excellent option for you.
 

Zach

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,711
Oooh. Sounds interesting. I'll definitely ask him to hit me with some details and let you know. Fun fun.